John Ramsey Fabricated Open Basement Window "Evidence"

Wait, John and Patsy Ramsey are credible sources? Patsy "said" she didn't write the ransom note. Well, then that's that. She didn't write it. It's your prerogative that you want to believe the Ramsey's who lied about/changed their stories multiple times, then LHP, who was innocent and had no motive to lie or mislead.

Patsy also states that LHP was at the Ramsey Christmas party(Dec23)until the end(around 830)and offered to help her clean up the mess(DOI). Why would Patsy say that, when LHP says she stayed only briefly and left NLT 530?

You didn't address the window. John's story is bogus. But I think you know this.

I don't know this. Your theory completely relies on LHP denying knowledge of the window, and as I suspected, you have found nothing to back that up. It would be like someone saying "I didn't rob that bank, I was having lunch with the mayor". It is easy to corroborate or disprove. By the time Patsy made these statements she had a good attorney and there was no way he was going to allow her to say anything that could be so easily rebutted.

So lets not try and change the subject. Either LHP said it or she didn't. Show me.
 
I don't know this. Your theory completely relies on LHP denying knowledge of the window, and as I suspected, you have found nothing to back that up. It would be like someone saying "I didn't rob that bank, I was having lunch with the mayor". It is easy to corroborate or disprove. By the time Patsy made these statements she had a good attorney and there was no way he was going to allow her to say anything that could be so easily rebutted.

So lets not try and change the subject. Either LHP said it or she didn't. Show me.

You show me where she says that she knew about it and told her husband to fix it.



cottonstar
 
You show me where she says that she knew about it and told her husband to fix it.



cottonstar

Jeez, the fact that Kolar or Thomas never made any mention of it in their books is a pretty good clue that she did say it don't you think? Your logic is akin to how the IDI's would ague their theories. I thought we were above that.

Your theory simply lacks any credibility or logic. Why break a window to simulate a break in, then clean up the glass? It makes absolutely no sense. If John had pointed out the window and been adamant that was how the intruder entered, I'd be skeptical. They tried that with the kitchen door and Barbra Ferinie called her on that pretty quickly.
 
Jeez, the fact that Kolar or Thomas never made any mention of it in their books is a pretty good clue that she did say it don't you think? Your logic is akin to how the IDI's would ague their theories. I thought we were above that.

Your theory simply lacks any credibility or logic. Why break a window to simulate a break in, then clean up the glass? It makes absolutely no sense. If John had pointed out the window and been adamant that was how the intruder entered, I'd be skeptical. They tried that with the kitchen door and Barbra Ferinie called her on that pretty quickly.

I never said the window was broken on purpose to stage a entry/exit point. I'm saying the window was likely broken that night by the person who admitted to the Grand Jury he owned Hi-Tec boots. The same person who likely left the hi-tec poon print by the basement window. It was cleaned up while the staging was going on. There was guilt surrounding the window, because it happened in close proximity to the murder. As the ransom note implies, the Ramsey's initially went with the "inside job" narrative. This is why John says to Arndt "It must be an inside job" after he brings JB up from basement. This is why the first people they finger were, Jeff Merrick, and LHP. It wasn't until later on they went for the intruder narrative. This is why John does not bring up the window on the 26th.


cottonstar
 
I never said the window was broken on purpose to stage a entry/exit point. I'm saying the window was likely broken that night by the person who admitted to the Grand Jury he owned Hi-Tec boots. The same person who likely left the hi-tec poon print by the basement window. It was cleaned up while the staging was going on. There was guilt surrounding the window, because it happened in close proximity to the murder. As the ransom note implies, the Ramsey's initially went with the "inside job" narrative. This is why John says to Arndt "It must be an inside job" after he brings JB up from basement. This is why the first people they finger were, Jeff Merrick, and LHP. It wasn't until later on they went for the intruder narrative. This is why John does not bring up the window on the 26th.


cottonstar

- Sorry, there was a Hi-Tek boot print by the basement window? I don't think so.
- There was no "inside job" narrative in the Ransom note.
- They fingered those people because they were asked questions. "anybody borrow money? Any conflicts at work?' Etc."
- John saying its an "inside job"? Likely he could tell already that the ransom note was drawing skepticism from LE. He changed course.
 
- Sorry, there was a Hi-Tek boot print by the basement window? I don't think so.
- There was no "inside job" narrative in the Ransom note.
- They fingered those people because they were asked questions. "anybody borrow money? Any conflicts at work?' Etc."
- John saying its an "inside job"? Likely he could tell already that the ransom note was drawing skepticism from LE. He changed course.

Never mind I see I'm dealing with someone who somehow believes John was oblivious to the whole sharade until he "discovers" JB body in the basement around 11am.

Yes, they did try and and paint the idea of it being an inside job. Hence the $118,000. Their behaviors and actions tell me so.


cottonstar
 
Never mind I see I'm dealing with someone who somehow believes John was oblivious to the whole sharade until he "discovers" JB body in the basement around 11am.

Yes, they did try and and paint the idea of it being an inside job. Hence the $118,000. Their behaviors and actions tell me so.


cottonstar

Cottonstar,
I see where you are coming from, and agree BR might have broken the window as part of some crazy staging.

This would explain why JR was all over the place trying to explain away a broken window.

It also fits in with Kolar's BDI All theory, I just wish he would tell us more about BR's loose behavior?

The print of the poon was in the wine-cellar and has been established that BR owned a pair of hitec shoes, his friend DS gave a statement to this effect.

.
 
I don't understand why, if the window was broken that night, that JR would need to lie about it happening months ago. That doesn't make sense. If it happened that night, he would let police know, whether he knew where/the condition of JBR at the time, or was covering up her murder. It would fit perfectly with the narrative of an intruder.

That said, I never brought the idea that JR didn't know what happened to JBR before he found the body. He knew the body was there the whole time, in my view. He knew everything that happened; he didn't figure it out along the way. He was in on it from the word, "go."

To me, the note does seem to imply/convey that it was inside job, because of how personal it tends to get toward JR ("don't particularly like you....fat cat....we respect your bussiness"). The business line in particular seems to imply that this was someone involved in JR's company that they were perhaps trying to frame, and the bonus amount of money speaks for itself. Just my opinion.
 
I don't understand why, if the window was broken that night, that JR would need to lie about it happening months ago. That doesn't make sense. If it happened that night, he would let police know, whether he knew where/the condition of JBR at the time, or was covering up her murder. It would fit perfectly with the narrative of an intruder.

That said, I never brought the idea that JR didn't know what happened to JBR before he found the body. He knew the body was there the whole time, in my view. He knew everything that happened; he didn't figure it out along the way. He was in on it from the word, "go."

To me, the note does seem to imply/convey that it was inside job, because of how personal it tends to get toward JR ("don't particularly like you....fat cat....we respect your bussiness"). The business line in particular seems to imply that this was someone involved in JR's company that they were perhaps trying to frame, and the bonus amount of money speaks for itself. Just my opinion.

Userid,
That's if. Its equally plausible JR is attempting to explain away either Patsy's or BR's attempt at staging.

Consider that the wine-cellar crime-scene might represent a revision of some prior crime-scene?

It doesn't matter what the RN says, its JR who suggests verbally that it was an inside job.

So RN divination and semantic revelation are completely irrelevent, since JR has pronounced.

Personally I go with JR trying to explain BR's basement staging away.

.
 
^ I really don't think that BR would be smart enough to even think about staging, but I digress.

If this was some sort of staging, that was deemed by JR to be too suspicious to work, again, what would be the reason for him to deem it so? And why wouldn't he explain away the suitcase that was found directly underneath the window? It's illogical that he would explain away one thing -- in order to divert attention away from the areas in the basement -- but not the other (the suitcase).
 
Cottonstar,
I see where you are coming from, and agree BR might have broken the window as part of some crazy staging.

This would explain why JR was all over the place trying to explain away a broken window.

It also fits in with Kolar's BDI All theory, I just wish he would tell us more about BR's loose behavior?

The print of the poon was in the wine-cellar and has been established that BR owned a pair of hitec shoes, his friend DS gave a statement to this effect.

.

I'm sorry I was referring to this one:
99137d8b572e7c4f06a393bfd1e4461e.jpg



cottonstar
 
^ I really don't think that BR would be smart enough to even think about staging, but I digress.

If this was some sort of staging, that was deemed by JR to be suspicious, again, what would be the reason for him to deem it so? And why wouldn't he explain away the suitcase that was found directly underneath the window? It's illogical that he would explain away one thing -- in order to divert attention away from the areas in the basement -- but not the other (the suitcase).

Userid,
He did offer an explanation for the suitcase, he said he brought it down to the basement.

Was it not FW who moved the suitcase, and placed some glass onto it?

Looks to me as if JR is attempting to explain away BR's amateurish staging, just as Patsy does when she says she dressed JonBenet in Burke's Long Johns,
but never noticed if she was wearing size-12's, and of course her story about the size-12's collapsed!

Its all about hiding BR's role in JonBenet's death, its that simple.

.
 
Cottonstar,
I see where you are coming from, and agree BR might have broken the window as part of some crazy staging.

This would explain why JR was all over the place trying to explain away a broken window.

It also fits in with Kolar's BDI All theory, I just wish he would tell us more about BR's loose behavior?

The print of the poon was in the wine-cellar and has been established that BR owned a pair of hitec shoes, his friend DS gave a statement to this effect.

.


Cottonstar,
Where was this located, has it been independently documented with a source, e.g. BPD?

.
 
I don't understand why, if the window was broken that night, that JR would need to lie about it happening months ago. That doesn't make sense. If it happened that night, he would let police know, whether he knew where/the condition of JBR at the time, or was covering up her murder. It would fit perfectly with the narrative of an intruder.

That said, I never brought the idea that JR didn't know what happened to JBR before he found the body. He knew the body was there the whole time, in my view. He knew everything that happened; he didn't figure it out along the way. He was in on it from the word, "go."

To me, the note does seem to imply/convey that it was inside job, because of how personal it tends to get toward JR ("don't particularly like you....fat cat....we respect your bussiness"). The business line in particular seems to imply that this was someone involved in JR's company that they were perhaps trying to frame, and the bonus amount of money speaks for itself. Just my opinion.

I believe it was broken during horseplay in the basement that night. When JB was discovered and PR/JR saw everything including the mess and broken window, it was cleaned up because it was associated with the murder. It happened shortly before she died. So the psychology of cleaning up the broken window is that it was broken in the same room as Burke's train set and it was part of the overall crime scene. It was cleaned up in my view because it was a precursor to the murder. This is why John felt he needed to lie about the window to hide that it was broken that night.


cottonstar
 
I believe it was broken during horseplay in the basement that night. When JB was discovered and PR/JR saw everything including the mess and broken window, it was cleaned up because it was associated with the murder. It happened shortly before she died. So the psychology of cleaning up the broken window is that it was broken in the same room as Burke's train set and it was part of the overall crime scene. It was cleaned up in my view because it was a precursor to the murder. This is why John felt he needed to lie about the window to hide that it was broken that night.


cottonstar

Cottonstar,
You could be right. I would go with the broken window being consequent to JonBenet's death.

Otherwise why make so much apparent noise prior to a homicide, either way it does seem to have played a role.

.
 
I never said the window was broken on purpose to stage a entry/exit point. I'm saying the window was likely broken that night by the person who admitted to the Grand Jury he owned Hi-Tec boots. The same person who likely left the hi-tec poon print by the basement window. It was cleaned up while the staging was going on. There was guilt surrounding the window, because it happened in close proximity to the murder. As the ransom note implies, the Ramsey's initially went with the "inside job" narrative. This is why John says to Arndt "It must be an inside job" after he brings JB up from basement. This is why the first people they finger were, Jeff Merrick, and LHP. It wasn't until later on they went for the intruder narrative. This is why John does not bring up the window on the 26th.


cottonstar
Welcome, cottonstar.

Yes your logic for cleaning it up makes sense. One can only read their statements and make an attempt to understand why they claim this or that, and where the truth might lie. (I’m skeptical of so many of their statements.)

OTOH, it could have also been broken by JR that early morning, if he was trying to hint that an Intruder might have entered through the window which had never been repaired. From all analyses of his explanations, JR was the ‘Master of Plan B.’ JR might have figured that the housekeeper would be interviewed, and the accusation that it was an ‘inside job’ by someone with a key (like LHP) would fall apart. Then they could rely on the window as an entry. He took FW to the window to show him this broken window and was planting the seeds of a ‘mystery’ with it.

Schiller does reference the window in PMPT.

-When they told Linda that John Ramsey had said he’d broken the basement widow to enter his home, she found it odd. She said that Ramsey always came in through the garage door, which he opened with a remote-control device, then through a door to the house that was never locked except when Nedra was home alone at night with her grandchildren.

The gardener was also asked about the window.

-Scott said he didn’t remember that the window was broken. He’d only been in the basement to fix the sprinkler clock. He didn’t know there was a wine cellar, much less where it was. He did recall a broken window at the front of the house, but it was for the electrical cord for the Christmas lights and certainly not big enough for someone to crawl through—something like 2 inches square.

From Schiller's references, it doesn't sound like the housekeeper or gardener remember seeing a broken window in the basement. If, as Patsy elaborated, LHP was down there helping Patsy clean it up, surely LHP would have remembered. :)
 
The issue of when the window was broken could be easily be solved by whether or not dust had accumulated along the top edges of the glass which I believe was observed but cannot find where I read that. Either way, didn't Fleet White's account corroborate that John said he broke the window when they went down just prior to finding the body?
 
JR 'searched' the house, ostensibly to look for an entrance or exit from which the 'intruder' gained access to the interior of the home. He never mentioned the broken window or the 'opened' window to LE until they brought it up. Odd.

Why would he not tell them immediately, " there is a broken window in the basement, I broke it months ago and I found it unlocked this morning". As it was UNlocked and he allegedly gained entry there himself, surely he would have brought this to the attention of LE. But, no.

Instead of alerting police to a real point of possible entry, he locked the broken window and silently went back upstairs.

Then, we learn that the investigators opened the butler pantry door to the outside and JR claimed later that the door was found 'wide open' by them. No, it wasn't. Why lie when it is so easily refuted?

Well, we know why. They were colluding to cover up the murder of their own child and we know why they did this too. There are no mysteries here.
 
Welcome, cottonstar.

Yes your logic for cleaning it up makes sense. One can only read their statements and make an attempt to understand why they claim this or that, and where the truth might lie. (I’m skeptical of so many of their statements.)

OTOH, it could have also been broken by JR that early morning, if he was trying to hint that an Intruder might have entered through the window which had never been repaired. From all analyses of his explanations, JR was the ‘Master of Plan B.’ JR might have figured that the housekeeper would be interviewed, and the accusation that it was an ‘inside job’ by someone with a key (like LHP) would fall apart. Then they could rely on the window as an entry. He took FW to the window to show him this broken window and was planting the seeds of a ‘mystery’ with it.

Schiller does reference the window in PMPT.

-When they told Linda that John Ramsey had said he’d broken the basement widow to enter his home, she found it odd. She said that Ramsey always came in through the garage door, which he opened with a remote-control device, then through a door to the house that was never locked except when Nedra was home alone at night with her grandchildren.

The gardener was also asked about the window.

-Scott said he didn’t remember that the window was broken. He’d only been in the basement to fix the sprinkler clock. He didn’t know there was a wine cellar, much less where it was. He did recall a broken window at the front of the house, but it was for the electrical cord for the Christmas lights and certainly not big enough for someone to crawl through—something like 2 inches square.

From Schiller's references, it doesn't sound like the housekeeper or gardener remember seeing a broken window in the basement. If, as Patsy elaborated, LHP was down there helping Patsy clean it up, surely LHP would have remembered. :)

Your quote doesn't say anything about LHP regarding the broken window. It's also inaccurate as the window with the cord wasn't broken, just ajar. And why would anyone believe a word Schiller wrote anyway?


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