Jonah Shacknai Wants Investigation Reviewed

[arielilane]

copy of the letter:
http://www.10newsblogs.com/pdf/Shacknai_letter.pdf

Thank you for posting this information, IWannaKnow. Unbelievable how quick he gets a response. Most people wait awhile before hearing back from the AG...at least two months or more. Good grief...

 

[thinkingstraight]

I have a right to my opinion and I justified it in much earlier threads. I have been posting here from the beginning I believe but I will tell you why again.

Jonah and Dina engaged in mutual or whatever physical violence and threats with each other for years. Dina gave LE a picture from back in 2006. This went on until at least 2009 between the two of them. It started when Max was 1-2 years old and continued for quite a while. There is no way a child would not have been affected by some of that. I think they should have kept mum on it all instead of issuing a joint statement that it was a rough patch... that is not true when anyone engages in domestic violence, let alone for an extended time and with several police calls. Neither of them would press charges though. They made some very strong claims against each other as I am sure you are well aware, chilling claims.

I never said you thought Max was intentionally hurt... it was a question based on some here claiming he is not being given justice. Again, this is what I said with the first question being most important and the second a tangent from the first, I thought it was logical:



If I were Dina, given their past, I would have refused to issue any such joint statement about domestic abuse and would have issued my own statement about my son.

If I were Jonah and in love with Rebecca I would have made some public statement right away about my loss and hoping for a full investigation.

Again, I would not try to portray domestic violence documented with horrendous police reports and pictures over several years as analogous to a rough patch. Such domestic abuse is not normal behavior and should not be downplayed.

You do realize what they were going through at that time right? I mean, I really do think we should lay low on judging grieving parents. If they had not put out a statement, people would be hollering. Maybe they downplayed it all, but the public would have a feeding frenzy if they hadn't. And maybe the dying of their child was occupying their hearts and minds and they just didn't want to get into their past marital problems with the general public. Can't say I blame them.

 

[MyBelle]

A doctor from Rady's believes he was suffocated. The link is on the Max death thread.

Now that the search warrants are released, Max's parents can ask the ME to change the manner of death. I think they will do that and he'll agree. I've always thought the only reason he classified it as an accident was out of respect for RZ.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

You do realize what they were going through at that time right? I mean, I really do think we should lay low on judging grieving parents. If they had not put out a statement, people would be hollering. Maybe they downplayed it all, but the public would have a feeding frenzy if they hadn't. And maybe the dying of their child was occupying their hearts and minds and they just didn't want to get into their past marital problems with the general public. Can't say I blame them.

I agree. I don't blame the parents and certainly wouldn't blame them if they file a lawsuit against the lawyer lobbing all the accusations and innuendo.

JMO

 

[steff13]

Now that the search warrants are released, Max's parents can ask the ME to change the manner of death. I think they will do that and he'll agree. I've always thought the only reason he classified it as an accident was out of respect for RZ.

JMO

I think you have to do more than ask to have a manner of death changed. Regardless, the MEs usually have the hospital records when the do the autopsy. Just because we are just finding out that there was a doctor who thought it might be suffocation doesn't meant the ME didn't know it when he made his determination.

I also don't think that they "fudge" the manners of death out of respect for others. That's just my opinion, but it doesn't seem like the process would be very reliable or scientific if they did that sort of thing.

 

[rosemary]

Now that the search warrants are released, Max's parents can ask the ME to change the manner of death. I think they will do that and he'll agree. I've always thought the only reason he classified it as an accident was out of respect for RZ.

JMO

if that's the case then the ME shouldn't be relied upon to give an accurate analysis of both Max's and Rebecca's deaths. If the ME is capable of fudging Max's death out of respect for Rebecca, why shouldn't we believe that he is also capable of fudging Rebecca's death out of respect for Max's family?

 

[MyBelle]

if that's the case then the ME shouldn't be relied upon to give an accurate analysis of both Max's and Rebecca's deaths. If the ME is capable of fudging Max's death out of respect for Rebecca, why shouldn't we believe that he is also capable of fudging Rebecca's death out of respect for Max's family?

I think Max's dad agrees with you and that's why he asked the AG to review the protocols. Fudging Max's manner of death wouldn't be showing respect for Max's family. In fact, it would be just the opposite if Max's death was a homicide.

all, JMO

 

[MyBelle]

I think you have to do more than ask to have a manner of death changed. Regardless, the MEs usually have the hospital records when the do the autopsy. Just because we are just finding out that there was a doctor who thought it might be suffocation doesn't meant the ME didn't know it when he made his determination.

I also don't think that they "fudge" the manners of death out of respect for others. That's just my opinion, but it doesn't seem like the process would be very reliable or scientific if they did that sort of thing.

An insider posted here that Max's mother believes he was suffocated. I think she could make a very persuasive argument to the ME about changing the manner of death.

There is clearly more to what has gone on than we've been told. ME's don't usually do autopsies on deaths in hospitals which is yet another clue that there is more to this case than what we've been told.

JMO

 

[rosemary]

I think Max's dad agrees with you and that's why he asked the AG to review the protocols. Fudging Max's manner of death wouldn't be showing respect for Max's family. In fact, it would be just the opposite if Max's death was a homicide.

all, JMO

If we are to believe that Rebecca had actually committed suicide, she most likely staged it to look like a homicide. Now if we are also to believe that the ME had lied or even fudged Max's death out of respect for Rebecca, he should also have ruled her death as murder out of respect for her, since that may have been what she wanted. Instead, he insisted that he believed Rebecca's death to be a suicide despite her family's outcry. So how does that actually show that he was biased towards Rebecca?

Btw, Jonah also agreed with the ME and the LE's findings that Max's death was an accident. Now if the ME had lied about Max's death out of respect for Rebecca, do you honestly think that Jonah would actually agree to that?

I personally believe that the ME may have just been merely incompetent rather than biased towards anyone in this case. (imo)

 

[rosemary]

An insider posted here that Max's mother believes he was suffocated. I think she could make a very persuasive argument to the ME about changing the manner of death.

how so? if the LE had ruled Max's death as an accident, getting the manner of his death changed would also mean that the LE would need to have to take another look at Rebecca's 'suicide' and may even need to change her manner of death as well. That would mean both investigations were not as thorough and iron clad as the LE claimed.

There is clearly more to what has gone on than we've been told. ME's don't usually do autopsies on deaths in hospitals which is yet another clue that there is more to this case than what we've been told.

All the more reason why both deaths need to be investigated again. The LE and the ME clearly did not do their jobs properly if Dina and Rebecca's family are not satisfied or still have unresolved questions regarding their loved ones' manner of deaths.

 

[steff13]

An insider posted here that Max's mother believes he was suffocated. I think she could make a very persuasive argument to the ME about changing the manner of death.

There is clearly more to what has gone on than we've been told. ME's don't usually do autopsies on deaths in hospitals which is yet another clue that there is more to this case than what we've been told.

JMO

We're going to have to agree to disagree on that. I doubt that Max's mother could make an argument persuasive enough for the ME to overlook his own findings and conclusions. If there is a new investigation that turns up new evidence, that's a different story.

Do you have a link to verify that MEs don't usually do autopsies of people who died in the hospital? That doesn't sound right to me. It may not be the majority, but I would assume that a fair number of people who die at the hospital are autopsied.

I don't know know about California, but here in Ohio, the law states that an autopsy is automatically done on a child under the age of 7, regardless of the cause of death.

Also, as was stated, the doctor at the hospital didn't know why Max was in cardiac arrest. Since the wound to his neck caused the cardiac arrest, and the doctor didn't know what had caused the cardiac arrest, we can conclude that the doctor either didn't know the severity of the wound, or wasn't aware of the fact that Max's type of injury caused cardiac arrest, which made the injury suspicious from his POV. That is enough to warrant a autopsy.

Here is a list of 25 reasons why an autopsy might be warranted. I would say at least numbers 4, 5, and 10 apply to Max's case:
http://montereytrust.com/coroner.htm

 

[Rhyme & Reason]

All the more reason why an independent investigation is needed.

Max's death, while tragic, doesn't seem to be as unusual as Rebecca's. Anyone who has raised healthy, energetic, impulsive young boys knows the risks of accidents in the home, especially where stairs are involved. At that age, they have no fear or sense of personal danger. They just want to have fun and to them, all the world is a playground. I had a younger brother, like that. Exuberant, energetic and, in spite of older siblings and a mother watching out, he always seemed to end up in the ER or at the doctors office for a sprain, stitches or a broken bone. He did everything at 100 mph. The old fashioned term was "accident prone".

OTOH, Rebecca's death was highly unusual, very bizarre, especially coming so soon after Max's tragic death. In an extended family filled with jealousy, hostility,and resentment its natural to assume the worst. Any lower or middle class family in this situation would have been subjected to more scrutiny than we've seen in this case.

Both deaths are tragic, both should be more fully investigated.

:goodpost:

 

[SunnieRN]

Thank you for posting this information, IWannaKnow. Unbelievable how quick he gets a response. Most people wait awhile before hearing back from the AG...at least two months or more. Good grief...

You know the old saying my friend.... Money talks, the rest of it just walks!!

We're going to have to agree to disagree on that. I doubt that Max's mother could make an argument persuasive enough for the ME to overlook his own findings and conclusions. If there is a new investigation that turns up new evidence, that's a different story.

Do you have a link to verify that MEs don't usually do autopsies of people who died in the hospital? That doesn't sound right to me. It may not be the majority, but I would assume that a fair number of people who die at the hospital are autopsied.

I don't know know about California, but here in Ohio, the law states that an autopsy is automatically done on a child under the age of 7, regardless of the cause of death.

Also, as was stated, the doctor at the hospital didn't know why Max was in cardiac arrest. Since the wound to his neck caused the cardiac arrest, and the doctor didn't know what had caused the cardiac arrest, we can conclude that the doctor either didn't know the severity of the wound, or wasn't aware of the fact that Max's type of injury caused cardiac arrest, which made the injury suspicious from his POV. That is enough to warrant a autopsy.

Here is a list of 25 reasons why an autopsy might be warranted. I would say at least numbers 4, 5, and 10 apply to Max's case:
http://montereytrust.com/coroner.htm

This was a great post and the article is very informative. I knew a lot of the 'rules' as we deal with them in a hospital setting, but there were some I was not aware of.

I snipped the list, so here it is!!


Not all deaths are reportable to the Coroner. Those deaths that are reportable fall into 25 categories. Those categories are:

1. No physician in attendance.

2. Medical attendance less than 24 hours (hospital or residence).

3. Wherein the deceased has not been attended by a physician in the 20 days prior to death.

4. Wherein the physician is unable to state the cause of death.

5. Known or suspected homicide.

6. Known or suspected suicide.

7. Involving any criminal action or suspicion of a criminal act.

8. Related to or following a known or suspected self-induced or criminal abortion.

9. Associated with a known or alleged rape of crime against nature.

10. Following an accident or injury, old or recent, (primary or contributory, occurring immediately or at some remote time.)

11. All deaths due to drowning, fire, hanging, gunshot, stabbing, cutting, starvation, exposure, acute alcoholism, drug addiction, strangulation or aspiration.

12. Accidental poisoning, (food, chemical agent, drug or therapeutic agent).

13. Occupational disease or occupational hazards.

14. Known or suspected contagious disease constituting a public health hazard, including AIDS.

15. All deaths in operating rooms.

16. All deaths where the patient has not fully recovered from an anesthetic whether in surgery, recovery room or elsewhere.

17. All deaths wherein the patient expired within 24 hours of an operation or surgical procedure.

18. All deaths in which the patient was comatose throughout the period of the physician’s attendance, whether at home or hospital.

19. All solitary deaths.

20. All deaths of unidentified persons.

21. All deaths where the suspected cause of death is Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (Crib Death).

22. All deaths in prison, jails or of persons under the control of a law enforcement agency.

23. All deaths of patients in state mental hospitals.

24. Wherein there is no known next of kin.

25. Fetal deaths of older than 20 weeks gestational age.


I knew the first 6, 15-17, as I used to be an OR manager. (Thank God we never lost a patient). 21, as we had a baby in ER one time that they suspected was a death due to SIDS, but I was unaware of the remainder. Thank you, very interesting!!

 

[Paladine]

Hey all :wave: I leave for a few weeks and BOY does this thing blow open! Now, Rebecca's in 'hot cases' and has a forum!

Sorry for having to jump ship I have been going through rigorous re-training at work and I'm sleeping 11 hours a night! Today, I'm off...so a little time to catch up. And I doubt there's enough hours in the day with all these threads... But I'll try...if anyone feels like giving me a recap to help me out...please pm.

Now...to reading.

 

[greenpalm]

This one applies to Max as well.

18. All deaths in which the patient was comatose throughout the period of the physician’s attendance, whether at home or hospital.

 

[Paladine]

IMO

I wonder....is there an attempt at diversion? LOOK! SHINY RED OBJECT OVER HERE!!!!

I'm still interested in how that poor woman ended up the way she did and how on God's green earth SDPD could possibly be THIS shoddy in their police work without being corrupt? Are they simply nimwits?

THAT'S where I stand and what I wonder...for the record.

 

[Paladine]

hypothetical: if Dina manages to have the coroner change the manner of death to homicide, then IF eventually Rebeccas is deemed a homicide...and considering the closeness of events...it may create mitigating circumstances for Rebeccas perp, possibly? Is that the plan?

 

[Paladine]

ahh...so let's continue with this hypothetical:

If a police dept felt public pressure to re-open a case that they had closed for a 'dear friend', let's say...would they then show the courtesy, let's call it, of reopening the 1st case, allowing a legal 'out' for that 'dear friend' and/or assoc., in the least...? A 'tit for tat' situation. And...if the media cannot be stopped from talking about this case, perhaps the best diversion is another case, one not so concentrated on Rebecca as a victim...but as a perp. Maybe they want us to start digging up stuff on her and trashing her, knowing our love and passion for helping missing and wounded children? ALL IMO...but it stinks.

That's the thing when an investigation appears shoddy, to say the very least, imo...nothing thereafter is taken as fact, at face value; trust erodes and from what I've read, it's been eroding in San Diego for quite some time. We need a forum on THAT! IMO

Where's Yuri when ya need him?

 

[coastal]

Missed you, Paladine! Welcome back.