JonBenet Ramson letter - written before or after + linguistics

[Ames]

It does stand to reason for the secretary to be a suspect. It does NOT stand to reason that the secretary would be investigated to the exclusion of other suspects. The secretary may be a suspect, but an implausible suspect because it is not plausible that a secretary would use her own stuff to create that confession.



20 TOM HANEY: But now I am telling you they are
21 not somebody else's. Those prints belong to one of the
22 two of you.

By this reasoning, all anybody has to do is wear gloves and LE will default to the item owner? Gloves in crime? What a novel idea!

Somebody had to move the bowl from the dishwasher to the cabinet. Somebody else may have moved it to get to something else. There is no significance to PR's fingerprints on the bowl. Not unlike your post, LE used PR's ignorance on this to bully, to make her feel guilty for the presense of her own fingerprints on her property! Naturally her fingerprints are on her property! What would be wierd is if no fingerprints were found on that bowl. There had to be PR or JR fingerprints on ALL their dishes! Duh, hello??

While he was at it, he made her feel guilty for 'usually' buying cut fresh pineapple, letting them to 'all the work' for her. The whole interview was whipping a guilt trip on PR, a victim in this crime.

Then why in the world didn't Patsy just SAY THAT. "Well, you know..I am the one that took the bowl out of the dishwasher, and put it into the cabinet, so that would explain my prints". (Somewhere in those interviews, it does say that it was Patsy's prints, and not John's that was on the bowl, btw.) NO, she didn't say that...and she even denied owning the bowl!! Then later said that actually it WAS hers.

 

[Ames]

Was it canned or fresh?

Of course, this doesn't prove the pineapple was ever owned by the Ramseys. RDI has no evidence that PR ever bought, owned, or ate the same pineapple. Was there a can, a bag, rind, or anthing found in the garbage? LE saved and checked the garbage, right? Did JR, BR, or anyone remember seeing any pineapple?

No, no, and no.

The pineapple then falls into the 'unsourced to the house' class, same as the cord and tape, only they left the uneaten pineapple behind.

Ummm, holdon...what does..."the pineapple that was found in JB's stomach, was consistant down to the rind, of the pineapple that was found in the bowl", mean to YOU, exactly? It was fresh...the pineapple in the bowl was fresh, just like the kind that Patsy bought. And besides...pineapple in a can does NOT have a rind.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Ummm, holdon...what does..."the pineapple that was found in JB's stomach, was consistant down to the rind, of the pineapple that was found in the bowl", mean to YOU, exactly? It was fresh...the pineapple in the bowl was fresh, just like the kind that Patsy bought. And besides...pineapple in a can does NOT have a rind.

This is meaningless, as far as pineapple ownership is concerned.

I'm talking actual, real evidence of ownership. A can, a bag, a rind, a receipt, or credible witness testimony that the pineapple belonged to the house.

Or is this yet another 'so close but yet so far' episodes for RDI, where you cant quite prove your point. That PR even owned the pineapple found in the bowl or JBR has not been proven.

EVERYBODY buys pineapple. PR & JR would probably not buy canned. Is there a rule for intruders that they are only allowed to buy canned pineapple?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

5 TOM HANEY: Wait. Talk to me. Your line of
6 reasoning, and this was your logic a couple sentences
7 ago, they are not yours, they are not John's, then they
8 are somebody else's, whoever put it there. I'm telling
9 you that it isn't somebody else's.


PR's actual logic seems to be a little less complicated that LE claimed. PR wanted to know about fingerprints on the bowl, and finding out the bowl only contained their fingerprints, she then stated and restated she did not put the bowl on the table. Logically, obvious possible conclusion is that a criminal wore gloves. This was not pointed out to PR as a possiblity. Instead LE created new logic where none existed and told PR it was her logic. That the fingerprints that were on the bowl belonged to whoever put the bowl on the table.

 

[Ames]

This is meaningless, as far as pineapple ownership is concerned.

I'm talking actual, real evidence of ownership. A can, a bag, a rind, a receipt, or credible witness testimony that the pineapple belonged to the house.

Or is this yet another 'so close but yet so far' episodes for RDI, where you cant quite prove your point. That PR even owned the pineapple found in the bowl or JBR has not been proven.

EVERYBODY buys pineapple. PR & JR would probably not buy canned. Is there a rule for intruders that they are only allowed to buy canned pineapple?

You don't know if they asked Burke about it or not. My guess is that they did. IMO..the bowl of pineapple had been in the fridge. Patsy got it out, and gave some to JB before she went to sleep, since she didn't eat a whole lot at the White's party. Lou Smit wouldn't have called the pineapple the "big bugaboo", if he didn't have a reason too. Why in God's name, would an "intruder" bring in fresh pineapple, find a bowl and spoon...and give this to JB? And why in God's name would she just just sit there and eat it with him....a complete stranger?

 

[Ames]

5 TOM HANEY: Wait. Talk to me. Your line of
6 reasoning, and this was your logic a couple sentences
7 ago, they are not yours, they are not John's, then they
8 are somebody else's, whoever put it there. I'm telling
9 you that it isn't somebody else's.


PR's actual logic seems to be a little less complicated that LE claimed. PR wanted to know about fingerprints on the bowl, and finding out the bowl only contained their fingerprints, she then stated and restated she did not put the bowl on the table. Logically, obvious possible conclusion is that a criminal wore gloves. This was not pointed out to PR as a possiblity. Instead LE created new logic where none existed and told PR it was her logic. That the fingerprints that were on the bowl belonged to whoever put the bowl on the table.

Patsy was a smart woman, she would have said..."I am the one that placed the bowl in the cabinet from the dishwasher, so of course my prints are going to be on it". I think that I have said this before, so I am repeating myself...yet again. She sure had an excuse for everything else.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

You don't know if they asked Burke about it or not. My guess is that they did. IMO..the bowl of pineapple had been in the fridge. Patsy got it out, and gave some to JB before she went to sleep, since she didn't eat a whole lot at the White's party. Lou Smit wouldn't have called the pineapple the "big bugaboo", if he didn't have a reason too. Why in God's name, would an "intruder" bring in fresh pineapple, find a bowl and spoon...and give this to JB? And why in God's name would she just just sit there and eat it with him....a complete stranger?

Things in red are just your ideas of what you think happened, not to be confused with what actually happened.

 

[BBB167893]

Who called Ames a liar?

Let's move on.

 

[Tadpole12]

Why in God's name, would an "intruder" bring in fresh pineapple - Ames.

hi Ames.

sigh. ya.

A friend might return a bowl with something good to eat inside, drop off leftovers or treats ... something quick for breakfast, if they knew you were to leave early in the morning (but then the bowl should have prints other than that of PR). For some reason, I can imagine a random intruder, vagrant type with a 'pineapple cup', but not fresh pineapple. hmmm.

 

[BBB167893]

It does stand to reason for the secretary to be a suspect. It does NOT stand to reason that the secretary would be investigated to the exclusion of other suspects.

Excuse me. This is very edifying, but I really MUST step in here. "The exclusion of other suspects?" Can we PLEASE leave THAT dead horse alone?

The secretary may be a suspect, but an implausible suspect because it is not plausible that a secretary would use her own stuff to create that confession.

You'd be shocked what criminals do.

20 TOM HANEY: But now I am telling you they are
21 not somebody else's. Those prints belong to one of the
22 two of you.

By this reasoning, all a criminal has to do is wear gloves and LE will default to the item owner?

I think I should remind you, HOTYH, that Tom Haney is one of THE finest homicide detectives in the country, and that he has most likely forgotten more about interviewing a suspect than any of us will ever know. I'd like to think he knew what he was doing!

Somebody had to move the bowl from the dishwasher to the cabinet. Somebody else may have moved it to get to something else. There is no significance to PR's fingerprints on the bowl.

Oh, but there is!

Not unlike your post, LE used PR's ignorance on this to bully, to make her feel guilty for the presense of her own fingerprints on her property! Naturally her fingerprints are on her property!

Then why didn't she just SAY SO?! And as for this "bullying" nonsense, if you would read the entire interview with Tom Haney, you will see he is not trying to bully her into ANYTHING. Indeed, he's giving her every chance to give a plausible innocent explanation for all of these things, and she can't do it.

What would be wierd is if no fingerprints were found on that bowl. There had to be PR or JR fingerprints on ALL their dishes! Duh, hello??

Except "all their dishes" is not the issue. THIS dish is, and it screws up their whole timeline.

While he was at it, he made her feel guilty for 'usually' buying cut fresh pineapple, letting them to 'all the work' for her.

I've read that interview more times than I can count. And if PR felt guilty at any time, then she only had herself to blame.

The whole interview was whipping a guilt trip on PR, a victim in this crime. She wanted to be a participant in the investigation, instead she was treated as the prime suspect.

HOTYH, I suddenly have a VERY bad headache. Tom Haney was using STANDARD techniques that the greenest rookie on a beat would know!

 

[icedtea4me]

It is the fresh pineapple that they do all the work for you?

All the work? Lets see, there's planting, watering, picking, cleaning, inspecting, packing, shipping, unpacking, peeling, cutting, packaging, tagging, and shelving. That work?

The work that is done to the pineapple is stated by Patsy.

2 PATSY RAMSEY: Usually I would buy those -- I
3 bought pineapple, it was fresh pineapple that had been
4 peeled or whatever they do to it, and core it and cut
5 it up a little bit, or some that had been fresh that
6 was sealed there in the produce area.

 

[icedtea4me]

Why in God's name, would an "intruder" bring in fresh pineapple, find a bowl and spoon...and give this to JB?

Oh, puh-leeze, Ames! Everyone knows that angry leftists who are upset about the collapse of the Soviet Union bring in and feed fresh pineapple to little girls they don't know. I'll bet if you were to come across the Facebook page of an angry leftist who was upset over the collapse of the Soviet Union, listed under the category of Hobbies and Interests would be: Bringing in and feeding fresh pineapple to little girls I don't know.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Oh, puh-leeze, Ames! Everyone knows that angry leftists who are upset about the collapse of the Soviet Union bring in and feed fresh pineapple to little girls they don't know. I'll bet if you were to come across the Facebook page of an angry leftist who was upset over the collapse of the Soviet Union, listed under the category of Hobbies and Interests would be: Bringing in and feeding fresh pineapple to little girls I don't know.

HEY TADPOLE! Should we show icedtea the facebook page of the angry leftist or not?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Then why didn't she just SAY SO?! And as for this "bullying" nonsense, if you would read the entire interview with Tom Haney, you will see he is not trying to bully her into ANYTHING. Indeed, he's giving her every chance to give a plausible innocent explanation for all of these things, and she can't do it.

TH already had the plausible innocent explanation for PR's fingerprints on the bowl, but he didn't share by informing her that her prints are likely on EVERY BOWL IN HER CABINET, and to relax.

Instead he thought he'd play along with PR's fingerprint misconception, to see if it got him anywhere. Maybe that is standard questioning, but rather he forgot that PR was also possibly a witness and not a suspect? Was there another 'good' detective to go along with the good cop bad cop routine? Because TH seems like the bad cop here.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

2 PATSY RAMSEY: Usually I would buy those -- I
3 bought pineapple, it was fresh pineapple that had been
4 peeled or whatever they do to it, and core it and cut
5 it up a little bit, or some that had been fresh that
6 was sealed there in the produce area.
7 TOM HANEY: What store did you buy this from?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: Safeway is usually where I buy
9 it from.
10 TOM HANEY: It is the fresh pineapple that
11 they do all the work for you?
12 PATSY RAMSEY: Correct.

PR had already stated she didn't buy this pineapple. Then she started saying 'well, usually when I buy pineapple'. TH then asks what store did she buy THIS pineapple from. Huge difference. He's apparently taken the conversation out of the 'usually buy pineapple' context and placed it back into a specific pineapple purchase and hoping for an answer. PR blasts that attempt by restating 'usually'.

 

[DeeDee249]

Patsy always bough fresh pineapple- JBR liked it as a snack. PR bought THIS pineapple. No intruder would bring fresh cut-up pineapple to entice a child.

Patsy bought the pineapple. THIS pineapple. An innocent enough event. The pineapple isn't the thing. The LIE about the pineapple is the thing. Because it shows that JBR, who may or may not have fallen asleep in the car on the way home, was AWAKE at some point that night after they got back from the White's. And they deny this. If the pineapple hadn't been discovered at the autopsy, we wouldn't be talking about whose bowl or pineapple it was. PR, when shown the bowl in a photo, would have said "Yes, that's mine. I always keep fresh pineapple in the fridge for JBR". And that would be the end of it. It's the fact that the pineapple found in her stomach places her awake between 10pm and her death 2-3 hours later that causes PR to lie about it in the first place.
IMO, the pineapple itself has nothing to do with the crime per se. It was a simple bedtime fruit snack for a little girl who probably in the excitement of the day did not eat that much at dinner. If the parents were not aware of something horrible hadn't happened to that little girl a few hours after eating it they wouldn't have to lie about it.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Patsy always bough fresh pineapple- JBR liked it as a snack. PR bought THIS pineapple. No intruder would bring fresh cut-up pineapple to entice a child.

Patsy bought the pineapple. THIS pineapple. An innocent enough event. The pineapple isn't the thing. The LIE about the pineapple is the thing. Because it shows that JBR, who may or may not have fallen asleep in the car on the way home, was AWAKE at some point that night after they got back from the White's. And they deny this. If the pineapple hadn't been discovered at the autopsy, we wouldn't be talking about whose bowl or pineapple it was. PR, when shown the bowl in a photo, would have said "Yes, that's mine. I always keep fresh pineapple in the fridge for JBR". And that would be the end of it. It's the fact that the pineapple found in her stomach places her awake between 10pm and her death 2-3 hours later that causes PR to lie about it in the first place.
IMO, the pineapple itself has nothing to do with the crime per se. It was a simple bedtime fruit snack for a little girl who probably in the excitement of the day did not eat that much at dinner. If the parents were not aware of something horrible hadn't happened to that little girl a few hours after eating it they wouldn't have to lie about it.

In red are your claims of what happened, none to be confused with what actually happened. Most of these casually stated as fact.

Impressive.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Oh, puh-leeze, Ames! Everyone knows that angry leftists who are upset about the collapse of the Soviet Union bring in and feed fresh pineapple to little girls they don't know. I'll bet if you were to come across the Facebook page of an angry leftist who was upset over the collapse of the Soviet Union, listed under the category of Hobbies and Interests would be: Bringing in and feeding fresh pineapple to little girls I don't know.

Will a New York Times 'front page' from December 25, 1991 showing two headlines, one on the collapse of the Soviet Union, and the other on pineapple suffice??

I think its random coincidence. What do you think?

 

[DeeDee249]

Patsy always bough fresh pineapple- JBR liked it as a snack. PR bought THIS pineapple. No intruder would bring fresh cut-up pineapple to entice a child.

Patsy bought the pineapple. THIS pineapple. An innocent enough event. The pineapple isn't the thing. The LIE about the pineapple is the thing. Because it shows that JBR, who may or may not have fallen asleep in the car on the way home, was AWAKE at some point that night after they got back from the White's. And they deny this. If the pineapple hadn't been discovered at the autopsy, we wouldn't be talking about whose bowl or pineapple it was. PR, when shown the bowl in a photo, would have said "Yes, that's mine. I always keep fresh pineapple in the fridge for JBR". And that would be the end of it. It's the fact that the pineapple found in her stomach places her awake between 10pm and her death 2-3 hours later that causes PR to lie about it in the first place.
IMO, the pineapple itself has nothing to do with the crime per se. It was a simple bedtime fruit snack for a little girl who probably in the excitement of the day did not eat that much at dinner. If the parents were not aware of something horrible hadn't happened to that little girl a few hours after eating it they wouldn't have to lie about it.[/quote]

In red are your claims of what happened, none to be confused with what actually happened. Most of these casually stated as fact.

Impressive.

Why, thank'ya. Thank'ya very much.

 

[Tadpole12]

HEY TADPOLE! Should we show icedtea the facebook page of the angry leftist or not?

Hey, Holdon.

passionate 'separatist'.

"the passionate separatist-fighter, would conspire ..."

The AntiAmerican QUE dude, just a typical anti-americaine, socialiste separatist ....with a blog?