JonBenet Ramson letter - written before or after + linguistics

  • #461
14 TOM HANEY: Is there some way to account for
15 the pineapple in her body?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: Not to my knowledge, unless
17 she -- you know, I can't remember what was served over
18 at the White's. Does anybody know? Except there was
19 crab. I remember crab.

In this section, PR is not able to account for pineapple in JBR. Had she purchased pineapple recently in her usual way from her usual place, then she could've accounted for it. Pineapple spoils quickly, you know.

Sounds like to me, that she denied giving her any...she never came out and said that she hadn't bought any. GEEZ...even Smit said that the pineapple was the "big bugaboo". Why did he say that...if it wasn't? And, do you even KNOW who Lou Smit is?
 
  • #462
14 TOM HANEY: Is there some way to account for
15 the pineapple in her body?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: Not to my knowledge, unless
17 she -- you know, I can't remember what was served over
18 at the White's. Does anybody know? Except there was
19 crab. I remember crab.

Sounds like to me, that she denied giving her any...she never came out and said that she hadn't bought any. GEEZ...even Smit said that the pineapple was the "big bugaboo". Why did he say that...if it wasn't? And, do you even KNOW who Lou Smit is?

I disagree.

The only way PR thought JBR could've eaten any pineapple is in another household. What does that tell you? I'll give you a minute or two to think.

OK?

They didn't have any!

This is all beside the point anyway, although I'm sure its fun for you. The point is, the pineapple cannot be factually sourced to the house. PR never stated she purchased THIS pineapple, she stated 'usually when I buy pineapple' More to the point, there was no receipt, rind, can, bag, or witness testimony that places the pineapple in the house innocently. Sound familiar? A bit like the cord and tape, huh. I know you think its ridiculous for intruder to bring pineapple, but the facts speak for themselves.

Dont shoot the messenger just because he brings you bad news.

Are you going to answer the question? In RDI, was the pineapple accidentally left out to rot, or deliberately left out to rot?
 
  • #463
Hi Hotyh.

Pineapple spoils quickly, you know - Hotyh

ya it does. It's one of the few things I won't let 'my iron gut' hubs eat, even past a few days of purchase.

Are you going to answer the question? In RDI, was the pineapple accidentally left out to rot, or deliberately left out to rot? - Hotyh

Any item can be explained away as having been left/left out in plain sight, "in haste" for both the IDI and RDI scenarios.
 
  • #464
Hi Hotyh.

Pineapple spoils quickly, you know - Hotyh

ya it does. It's one of the few things I won't let 'my iron gut' hubs eat, even past a few days of purchase.

Are you going to answer the question? In RDI, was the pineapple accidentally left out to rot, or deliberately left out to rot? - Hotyh

Any item can be explained away as having been left/left out in plain sight, "in haste" for both the IDI and RDI scenarios.



Yes, but we're getting to the point where one should consider 'plausibility'.

What is more plausible?

PR, in haste, forgets to put the pineapple back in the refrigerator, leaving it out to rot. She was too busy writing 300+ word ransom notes and staging crime scenes to coverup prior abuse

OR

An intruder didn't care if the pineapple spoiled.

Go ahead, you decide.

The idea that an intruder would leave the pineapple out because they were in a hurry is probably erroneous. Even if the intruder wasn't in a hurry, what motivation would he have to refrigerate the uneaten pineapple? So the R's could have more pineapple later?

An intruder discarding the leftover pineapple in the kitchen is easier to understand than PR leaving something out of place right on the kitchen counter. That mistake stands in stark contrast to the preparation of the RN and the staging. That is, to leave JBR's last meal dish with her own prints on it out in plain view, and knowing the cops will be taking crime scene photos of everything later.

IMO its more plausible for an intruder to have discarded the pineapple, than for PR to leave the pineapple out to rot right there on the kitchen counter, when she's supposedly done all this other preparation for LE.

What you may need is a 'wildcard' explanation here, like "criminals do crazy things'
 
  • #465
14 TOM HANEY: Is there some way to account for
15 the pineapple in her body?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: Not to my knowledge, unless
17 she -- you know, I can't remember what was served over
18 at the White's. Does anybody know? Except there was
19 crab. I remember crab.

In this section, PR is not able to account for pineapple in JBR. Had she purchased pineapple recently in her usual way from her usual place, then she could've accounted for it. Pineapple spoils quickly, you know.
And if she hadn't have had purchased pineapple recently, she could've said "But I didn't buy any pineapple just prior to that Christmas, so there wouldn't have been any in our home."
 
  • #466
I disagree.

The only way PR thought JBR could've eaten any pineapple is in another household. What does that tell you? I'll give you a minute or two to think.

OK?

They didn't have any!

This is all beside the point anyway, although I'm sure its fun for you. The point is, the pineapple cannot be factually sourced to the house. PR never stated she purchased THIS pineapple, she stated 'usually when I buy pineapple' More to the point, there was no receipt, rind, can, bag, or witness testimony that places the pineapple in the house innocently. Sound familiar? A bit like the cord and tape, huh. I know you think its ridiculous for intruder to bring pineapple, but the facts speak for themselves.

Dont shoot the messenger just because he brings you bad news.

Are you going to answer the question? In RDI, was the pineapple accidentally left out to rot, or deliberately left out to rot?
1. Unless there's found to be a problem with one of the items brought home from a grocery store in that it needs to be returned, receipts are generally pitched in the trash. That particular receipt would have most likely been in the trash that was hauled away just prior to Wednesday Dec 25.

2. There is no rind since Patsy stated the grocery store had already removed it.

3. Patsy stated she bought fresh pineapple; therefore, there would be no can.

4. Fresh pineapple that had its rind removed and cut up wouldn't come in a bag. It would come in a plastic container from the deli department.

5. We don't know what, if anything, anyone said about any pineapple during their grand jury testimony.
 
  • #467
1. Unless there's found to be a problem with one of the items brought home from a grocery store in that it needs to be returned, receipts are generally pitched in the trash. That particular receipt would have most likely been in the trash that was hauled away just prior to Wednesday Dec 25.

2. There is no rind since Patsy stated the grocery store had already removed it.

3. Patsy stated she bought fresh pineapple; therefore, there would be no can.

4. Fresh pineapple that had its rind removed and cut up wouldn't come in a bag. It would come in a plastic container from the deli department.

5. We don't know what, if anything, anyone said about any pineapple during their grand jury testimony.

Hi icedtea4me,

1) I always find receipt in misc plastics grocery bags etc. I also leave them in the consol? of my vehicle.
 
  • #468
PR's activities, according to RDI:

Prepare and feed JBR pineapple from a bowl.
Leave the uneaten pineapple out.
Accidentally kill JBR in a fit of rage caused by holiday stress.
Handwrite a 300+ word ransom note to make it look like an angry leftist wanted money in exchange for JBR's safe return.
Stage the body in the basement to look like a intruder's sexual assault/kidnapping gone bad/murder, in order to coverup accidental rage and prior abuse. Unintentionally show parental compassion by wrapping JBR lovingly.

Was the pineapple bowl left out accidentally or deliberately??


Accidentally. BTW, GREAT post. Good deductive reasoning. NOW you're getting it.
 
  • #469
I disagree.

The only way PR thought JBR could've eaten any pineapple is in another household. What does that tell you? I'll give you a minute or two to think.

OK?

They didn't have any!

This is all beside the point anyway, although I'm sure its fun for you. The point is, the pineapple cannot be factually sourced to the house. PR never stated she purchased THIS pineapple, she stated 'usually when I buy pineapple' More to the point, there was no receipt, rind, can, bag, or witness testimony that places the pineapple in the house innocently. Sound familiar? A bit like the cord and tape, huh. I know you think its ridiculous for intruder to bring pineapple, but the facts speak for themselves.

Dont shoot the messenger just because he brings you bad news.

Are you going to answer the question? In RDI, was the pineapple accidentally left out to rot, or deliberately left out to rot?


Accidentally. PR was said to never put anything away herself- the kids either. Peanut butter, cereal, even milk was left our for the housekeeper to put away. It was not out of character to see the pineapple still in the bowl left on the table.
Don't forget one other reason for PR's answer to LE about whether she knew where the pineapple came from. She was lying.
 
  • #470
And if she hadn't have had purchased pineapple recently, she could've said "But I didn't buy any pineapple just prior to that Christmas, so there wouldn't have been any in our home."

Exactly! She never just came out and denied buying that pineapple, she just denied feeding it to JB.
 
  • #471
1. Unless there's found to be a problem with one of the items brought home from a grocery store in that it needs to be returned, receipts are generally pitched in the trash. That particular receipt would have most likely been in the trash that was hauled away just prior to Wednesday Dec 25.

2. There is no rind since Patsy stated the grocery store had already removed it.

3. Patsy stated she bought fresh pineapple; therefore, there would be no can.

4. Fresh pineapple that had its rind removed and cut up wouldn't come in a bag. It would come in a plastic container from the deli department.

5. We don't know what, if anything, anyone said about any pineapple during their grand jury testimony.


I don't remember anyone confirming fresh or canned pineapple was found in the bowl. Regardless, where is the can? Where is the plastic container? That should've been in the trash on the morning of December 26.

Even if there were receipts for purchases, even if the cord and tape were taken from huge boxes with many packages of cord and tape, even if PR had a dozen pineapples, it wouldn't be a problem for IDI because an intruder could've simply used these items he had found in the house.

The problem is with RDI.

If RDI, then all items had to be on hand that night JBR was murdered.

There seems to be a regular list of items that RDI can't establish to have been on hand that night. The list includes cord, tape, pineapple. It doesn't matter what anybodys testimony is. Whether they lied, or anything. What matters is proving these items were on hand.

As a side note, there are also items missing from the crime scene, like a paintbrush fragment, a blunt instrument (or a surface known to have caused the head injury), and the original pineapple container.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

If PR confessed, would you have believed her automatically and without question? I think so. Maybe she would've done that to take the fall for the real killer. It seems LE would've jumped on that and called it case closed. Even though there's a few loose ends here. Like where did the tape, cord, and pineapple come from? Where did their packaging go? Lets be real, and know the cord was new and freshly cut from a roll.

PR, if confessing, would have to come up with a convincing argument as to where these items came from, before I'd even believe it.
 
  • #472
I don't remember anyone confirming fresh or canned pineapple was found in the bowl. Regardless, where is the can? Where is the plastic container? That should've been in the trash on the morning of December 26.

Even if there were receipts for purchases, even if the cord and tape were taken from huge boxes with many packages of cord and tape, even if PR had a dozen pineapples, it wouldn't be a problem for IDI because an intruder could've simply used these items he had found in the house.

The problem is with RDI.

If RDI, then all items had to be on hand that night JBR was murdered.

There seems to be a regular list of items that RDI can't establish to have been on hand that night. The list includes cord, tape, pineapple. It doesn't matter what anybodys testimony is. Whether they lied, or anything. What matters is proving these items were on hand.

As a side note, there are also items missing from the crime scene, like a paintbrush fragment, a blunt instrument (or a surface known to have caused the head injury), and the original pineapple container.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

If PR confessed, would you have believed her automatically and without question? I think so. Maybe she would've done that to take the fall for the real killer. It seems LE would've jumped on that and called it case closed. Even though there's a few loose ends here. Like where did the tape, cord, and pineapple come from? Where did their packaging go? Lets be real, and know the cord was new and freshly cut from a roll.

PR, if confessing, would have to come up with a convincing argument as to where these items came from, before I'd even believe it.

How do you know WHEN the pineapple was put into that bowl? IMO...the bowl of pineapple had been in the fridge. The bag, or whatever it came in, had been thrown out prior to Dec. 26.

And even though it has been mentioned many times, in various news articles that the pineapple was fresh...it really doesn't matter if it was fresh, or canned, or dipped in chocolate...the fact remains that the pineapple in the BOWL and the pineapple in JB's intestines, were consistant down to the rind.
 
  • #473
  • #474
How do you know WHEN the pineapple was put into that bowl? IMO...the bowl of pineapple had been in the fridge. The bag, or whatever it came in, had been thrown out prior to Dec. 26.

And even though it has been mentioned many times, in various news articles that the pineapple was fresh...it really doesn't matter if it was fresh, or canned, or dipped in chocolate...the fact remains that the pineapple in the BOWL and the pineapple in JB's intestines, were consistant down to the rind.

It shouldn't be that hard to prove the pineapple, cord, and tape were on hand.

It should be easiest to prove what you said about the pineapple being in the fridge for days, because everybody's into the fridge so everybody would've seen the pineapple. Thats not what happened, though. You have zero corroborating testimony about the pineapple. It simply appeared on the scene. Nobody knows anything about pineapple. Nobody even knows if it came in a bag or a sealed plastic cup.

It should also be easy to show the cord as being on hand. Was it used in any other application in the household? No. Did anybody know or see or hear anything about anyone buying cord? No.

The cord was cut fresh from a roll, and the cord is new. For me, that is the most compelling thing, new fresh cord that came from nowhere, its package gone.

RDI is OK with all this missing evidence. It really is a lot of missing evidence because the cord, tape, and pineapple are basic and major elements of this crime and nobody even knows where they came from!
 
  • #475
TH already had the plausible innocent explanation for PR's fingerprints on the bowl, but he didn't share by informing her that her prints are likely on EVERY BOWL IN HER CABINET, and to relax.

Instead he thought he'd play along with PR's fingerprint misconception, to see if it got him anywhere.

I'm so glad you're here to tell him how to do his job.

Maybe that is standard questioning,

It is.

but rather he forgot that PR was also possibly a witness and not a suspect?

How do you THINK the cops separate the two, anyway?

Was there another 'good' detective to go along with the good cop bad cop routine?

Yeah, he was over in the next room with JR having a REVIVAL TENT meeting!

No, in all seriousness, "Trip" DeMuth was there. So were PR's lawyer Pat Burke and her private "investigator" Ellis Armistead. That's THREE "good" to Haney's "bad." And yet, he was clearly in charge.

Because TH seems like the bad cop here.

Um, that's PRECISELY what he was supposed to do, in case you hadn't noticed.
 
  • #476
The RN is angry leftist. That is supported by FBI agent remarks. RDI doesn't even deny the leftist aspect of the RN. RDI claims its fake leftist, though. RDI claims PR faked a leftist extremist

Not hard to do living in BOULDER, the 1960's wax museum come to life. Need I remind you that Ward Churchill taught there?
 
  • #477
PR's activities, according to RDI:

Prepare and feed JBR pineapple from a bowl.
Leave the uneaten pineapple out.
Accidentally kill JBR in a fit of rage caused by holiday stress.
Handwrite a 300+ word ransom note to make it look like an angry leftist wanted money in exchange for JBR's safe return.
Stage the body in the basement to look like a intruder's sexual assault/kidnapping gone bad/murder, in order to coverup accidental rage and prior abuse. Unintentionally show parental compassion by wrapping JBR lovingly.

Just WHAT part of that do you not understand?

Was the pineapple bowl left out accidentally or deliberately??

MY OPINION: accidentally, in the sense that nobody was thinking about it that much.
 
  • #478
LE found fresh pineapple in the Ramsey fridge which matched what was in the bowl which matched what was in JBR's body.
 
  • #479
I would like to see a sourced quote by an FBI agent who specifically said, "JonBenet Ramsey was killed by an angry leftist.

Don't bother, tea. He's referring to comments by Clint Van Zandt. He omits how Van Zandt discounts them as smokescreens in the same interview.

I'm an RDI. Please find a post from me where I said that the note is a fake leftist or that Patsy faked a leftist extremist.

I think he's referring to me, tea. HOTYH thinks if I believe something, we ALL believe something, despite my best efforts to disabuse him of that notion.
 
  • #480
Yes, but we're getting to the point where one should consider 'plausibility'.

What is more plausible?

PR, in haste, forgets to put the pineapple back in the refrigerator, leaving it out to rot. She was too busy writing 300+ word ransom notes and staging crime scenes to coverup prior abuse

OR

An intruder didn't care if the pineapple spoiled.

Go ahead, you decide.

I have. Or maybe you've forgotten that PR was known for leaving things any old place.

That mistake stands in stark contrast to the preparation of the RN and the staging. That is, to leave JBR's last meal dish with her own prints on it out in plain view, and knowing the cops will be taking crime scene photos of everything later.

Nobody thinks of everuthing, HOTYH. If they did, we wouldn't need trials, because nobody would ever get caught.

What you may need is a 'wildcard' explanation here, like "criminals do crazy things'

See above.
 

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