Josh Duggar charged with Receipt/Possession Child Sexual Abuse Material, 29 April 2021 #2

[MsJosie]

If you go here and scroll down to Nov. 1st you can open the Bill of Particulars for the case. It doesn't say much but maybe, maybe it was filed because there is a plea deal in the works.
United States v. Duggar, 5:21-cr-50014 – CourtListener.com

oh….very good thinking BeckyG. Maybe just maybe he can still get a plea deal.

 

[Scrapper18]

If you go here and scroll down to Nov. 1st you can open the Bill of Particulars for the case. It doesn't say much but maybe, maybe it was filed because there is a plea deal in the works.
United States v. Duggar, 5:21-cr-50014 – CourtListener.com

The only thing I see for November is the filing requesting the computer be forfeited. Am I missing the other?

 

[BeckyF]

The only thing I see for November is the filing requesting the computer be forfeited. Am I missing the other?

There isn’t another one to my knowledge. I’m not sure which other one you were looking for. Maybe I’m not understanding.

 

[sds71]

On Wednesday, prosecutors asked a federal judge to let them invoke the ex-“19 Kids and Counting” star’s scandals of old to prove his allegedly criminal conduct.

“The defendant subsequently admitted his addiction to internet to numerous witnesses the Government intends to call at trial,” prosecutors wrote in a 7-page motion on Wednesday.


https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/as-josh-duggars-trial-child--trial-looms-feds-want-jury-to-know-why-he-once-called-himself-the-biggest-hypocrite-ever/

Motion:
DocumentCloud

 

[Cool Cats]

Prosecutors want to raise Josh Duggar's molestation scandal at his child trial, court documents show

As Josh Duggar's Child Trial Looms, Feds Want Jury to Know Why He Once Called Himself the 'Biggest Hypocrite Ever'

Having lost an attempt to suppress the evidence at trial, Duggar has tried to raise doubt about whether he was the one using the HP at his workplace, which he said could have been accessed by three other people. The government plans to call those witnesses at trial, and it separately asked the court not to allow his defense team to claim they may have been behind the illegal downloads.

In yet another filing, prosecutors ask to introduce evidence of “prior child molestation conduct.” The document is slim on details, but the reference is unmistakable.

“Specifically, the government notices its intent to introduce evidence that in approximately 2002 and 2003, before he committed the offenses charged in the indictment in this case and while living in Arkansas, the defendant attempted to and did commit a crime as defined by Arkansas state law involving contact between any part of the defendant’s body and a child’s genitals or anus—namely, sexual assault in the second degree.”

SEE THE NEW MOTION HERE

CLICK:

wrote Case 5:21-cr-50014-TLB Document 68 Filed 11/03/21 Page 1 of 12 PageID #: 1081

GOVERNMENT'S NOTICE PURSUANT TO FEDERAL RULE OF EVIDENCE 414 AND MOTION IN LIMINE TO ADMIT EVIDENCE OF THE DEFENDANT'S PRIOR CHILD MOLESTATION CONDUCT

 

[BeckyF]

Government motion to exclude 3rd party guilt evidence. No. 67 at this link. Names of other parties included (no family members).
United States v. Duggar, 5:21-cr-50014 – CourtListener.com

 

[BeckyF]

I wonder if these motions filed on Nov. 2 and Nov. 3 will delay the trial? If Judge agrees with the government and defense decides to appeal the judge's decision it could delay the trial. Just a thought.

 

[Shamrock1]

I wonder if these motions filed on Nov. 2 and Nov. 3 will delay the trial? If Judge agrees with the government and defense decides to appeal the judge's decision it could delay the trial. Just a thought.

They're pretty standard MILs (motions in limine) for the case.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Exactly. It's not like they were 16. The youngest victim on the CSA material, that we know of, was 18 months old. That's pure, sick evil and pedophilia to the extreme. Nobody can defend that.

I don't even want to know anyone that thinks anyone 16 years is fair game,because I think those people will keep lowering the bar,then make excuses for any age. Even bend over backwards to think nothing of them marrying, and reproducing, and believing they would not do the same to their own children. I just don't get it. Kids should be kids,and off limits period. The slippery slope is what lead to this. Poor babies. MOO

 

[Cool Cats]

Josh Duggar's Prosecutors Want His Social Media Posts About Addiction Put In Evidence | Oxygen Official Site

The original statement, made on Facebook in August 2015 after his profile on the extramarital affair site Ashley Madison was leaked, said in part:

"I have been the biggest hypocrite ever. While espousing faith and family values, I have secretly over the last several years been viewing on the internet and this became a secret addiction and I became unfaithful to my wife. I brought hurt and a reproach to my family, close friends and the fans of our show with my actions that happened when I was 14-15 years old, and now I have re-broken their trust,"

Josh begs judge to ban cop's 'opinion' star's child was ‘worst ever'

At the May 2021 detention hearing, Special Agent Faulkner testified of a specific file:

"And I can say in the 11 years of doing this and the thousands and thousands of child images and videos I’ve unfortunately [had] to see, the [file] ranks in the top five of the worst-worst that I’ve ever had to examine.”

Josh’s legal team claimed in the November 3 court papers: “Special Agent Faulkner’s subjective opinion that some alleged child is apparently worse than other alleged child is completely irrelevant, unfairly prejudicial, and constitutes improper opinion testimony.”

The papers continued that defense fears an “unacceptable risk will arise that the jury would convict Duggar not because the Government has proven him guilty of the crimes charged beyond a reasonable doubt, but because the jury would improperly conclude that a witness—and, in particular, a special agent—formed a subjective opinion as to the alleged severity of the crimes charged.”

The opinion will “mislead the jury” and “needlessly waste time," the defense team claims. The documents claim the opinion “should not be admitted.”

 

[tayaway]

Josh Duggar's Prosecutors Want His Social Media Posts About Addiction Put In Evidence | Oxygen Official Site

The original statement, made on Facebook in August 2015 after his profile on the extramarital affair site Ashley Madison was leaked, said in part:

"I have been the biggest hypocrite ever. While espousing faith and family values, I have secretly over the last several years been viewing on the internet and this became a secret addiction and I became unfaithful to my wife. I brought hurt and a reproach to my family, close friends and the fans of our show with my actions that happened when I was 14-15 years old, and now I have re-broken their trust,"

Josh begs judge to ban cop's 'opinion' star's child was ‘worst ever'

At the May 2021 detention hearing, Special Agent Faulkner testified of a specific file:

"And I can say in the 11 years of doing this and the thousands and thousands of child images and videos I’ve unfortunately [had] to see, the [file] ranks in the top five of the worst-worst that I’ve ever had to examine.”

Josh’s legal team claimed in the November 3 court papers: “Special Agent Faulkner’s subjective opinion that some alleged child is apparently worse than other alleged child is completely irrelevant, unfairly prejudicial, and constitutes improper opinion testimony.”

The papers continued that defense fears an “unacceptable risk will arise that the jury would convict Duggar not because the Government has proven him guilty of the crimes charged beyond a reasonable doubt, but because the jury would improperly conclude that a witness—and, in particular, a special agent—formed a subjective opinion as to the alleged severity of the crimes charged.”

The opinion will “mislead the jury” and “needlessly waste time," the defense team claims. The documents claim the opinion “should not be admitted.”

The seasoned cop's opinion on how disturbing the material on Josh's hidden drive was needs to be included in the trial. It says something about Josh's sexual preferences. What's next? Well, judge, you see, the 18 month old was really mature for her age, so we want her age redacted...

 

[Shamrock1]

The seasoned cop's opinion on how disturbing the material on Josh's hidden drive was needs to be included in the trial. It says something about Josh's sexual preferences. What's next? Well, judge, you see, the 18 month old was really mature for her age, so we want her age redacted...

I don’t think the opinion (worst of the worst) is crucial for the prosecution. A brief description of the CSAM is sufficient for jurors to arrive at the same conclusion IMO.

 

[Cool Cats]

The seasoned cop's opinion on how disturbing the material on Josh's hidden drive was needs to be included in the trial. It says something about Josh's sexual preferences. What's next? Well, judge, you see, the 18 month old was really mature for her age, so we want her age redacted...

It is an opinion but in a way not just an opinion. I mean, he says it's the worst he's ever seen and that is truth not just opinion. Sorry, not sure I'm making sense. Doesn't sound like something to throw out.

I don’t think the opinion (worst of the worst) is crucial for the prosecution. A brief description of the CSAM is sufficient for jurors to arrive at the same conclusion IMO.

Can't put the genie back in the bottle. It's already out there in the general public that what Josh "entertained" himself with is "the worst of the worst."

As for the maybe couple of jurors who haven't heard "the worst of the worst" remark, well as you say:

"A brief description of the CSAM is sufficient for jurors to arrive at the same conclusion"

Yup.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Josh Duggar's Prosecutors Want His Social Media Posts About Addiction Put In Evidence | Oxygen Official Site

The original statement, made on Facebook in August 2015 after his profile on the extramarital affair site Ashley Madison was leaked, said in part:

"I have been the biggest hypocrite ever. While espousing faith and family values, I have secretly over the last several years been viewing on the internet and this became a secret addiction and I became unfaithful to my wife. I brought hurt and a reproach to my family, close friends and the fans of our show with my actions that happened when I was 14-15 years old, and now I have re-broken their trust,"

Josh begs judge to ban cop's 'opinion' star's child was ‘worst ever'

At the May 2021 detention hearing, Special Agent Faulkner testified of a specific file:

"And I can say in the 11 years of doing this and the thousands and thousands of child images and videos I’ve unfortunately [had] to see, the [file] ranks in the top five of the worst-worst that I’ve ever had to examine.”

Josh’s legal team claimed in the November 3 court papers: “Special Agent Faulkner’s subjective opinion that some alleged child is apparently worse than other alleged child is completely irrelevant, unfairly prejudicial, and constitutes improper opinion testimony.”

The papers continued that defense fears an “unacceptable risk will arise that the jury would convict Duggar not because the Government has proven him guilty of the crimes charged beyond a reasonable doubt, but because the jury would improperly conclude that a witness—and, in particular, a special agent—formed a subjective opinion as to the alleged severity of the crimes charged.”

The opinion will “mislead the jury” and “needlessly waste time," the defense team claims. The documents claim the opinion “should not be admitted.”

As if all these ridiculous motions being filed are not needlessly wasting time,and minimizing the atrocities committed against an 18 month old will go over real well. MOO

 

[MsMarple]

Josh Duggar's Prosecutors Want His Social Media Posts About Addiction Put In Evidence | Oxygen Official Site

The original statement, made on Facebook in August 2015 after his profile on the extramarital affair site Ashley Madison was leaked, said in part:

"I have been the biggest hypocrite ever. While espousing faith and family values, I have secretly over the last several years been viewing on the internet and this became a secret addiction and I became unfaithful to my wife. I brought hurt and a reproach to my family, close friends and the fans of our show with my actions that happened when I was 14-15 years old, and now I have re-broken their trust,"

Josh begs judge to ban cop's 'opinion' star's child was ‘worst ever'

At the May 2021 detention hearing, Special Agent Faulkner testified of a specific file:

"And I can say in the 11 years of doing this and the thousands and thousands of child images and videos I’ve unfortunately [had] to see, the [file] ranks in the top five of the worst-worst that I’ve ever had to examine.”

Josh’s legal team claimed in the November 3 court papers: “Special Agent Faulkner’s subjective opinion that some alleged child is apparently worse than other alleged child is completely irrelevant, unfairly prejudicial, and constitutes improper opinion testimony.”

The papers continued that defense fears an “unacceptable risk will arise that the jury would convict Duggar not because the Government has proven him guilty of the crimes charged beyond a reasonable doubt, but because the jury would improperly conclude that a witness—and, in particular, a special agent—formed a subjective opinion as to the alleged severity of the crimes charged.”

The opinion will “mislead the jury” and “needlessly waste time," the defense team claims. The documents claim the opinion “should not be admitted.”

IMO Josh's social media posts should be allowed to be viewed by jurors, mainly because he clearly wanted all his social media to be viewed by the public, as opposed to say, my social media which is aimed at my close friends only.

And Josh's posts are his words so it's very different from a gossip columnist writing about him.

As for the agent's opinion of the CSAM found on Josh's computer, IMO it should be kept in the official record. Special Agent Gerald Faulkner was testifying as an expert witness which carries more weight than, for example, an inexperienced county sheriff's opinion. Would a court throw out a medical examiner's testimony if the autopsy report was so brutal that it made the defendant look bad?

The latest fight is about entering Josh's past molestation charges as evidence in his trial. Josh has multiple battles ahead and I hope the entire truth can be brought to a jury. He has gotten away with despicable behavior for too many years. I'm sorry his wife is too brainwashed to realize the importance of protecting her own children from her husband but someone has to stop him and apparently his own family chose not to.

All MOO.

https://www.nwahomepage.com/northwe...-duggars-past-sexual-molestation-allegations/
Josh begs judge to ban cop's 'opinion' star's child was ‘worst ever'

 

[Shamrock1]

IMO Josh's social media posts should be allowed to be viewed by jurors, mainly because he clearly wanted all his social media to be viewed by the public, as opposed to say, my social media which is aimed at my close friends only.

And Josh's posts are his words so it's very different from a gossip columnist writing about him.

As for the agent's opinion of the CSAM found on Josh's computer, IMO it should be kept in the official record. Special Agent Gerald Faulkner was testifying as an expert witness which carries more weight than, for example, an inexperienced county sheriff's opinion. Would a court throw out a medical examiner's testimony if the autopsy report was so brutal that it made the defendant look bad?

The latest fight is about entering Josh's past molestation charges as evidence in his trial. Josh has multiple battles ahead and I hope the entire truth can be brought to a jury. He has gotten away with despicable behavior for too many years. I'm sorry his wife is too brainwashed to realize the importance of protecting her own children from her husband but someone has to stop him and apparently his own family chose not to.

All MOO.

https://www.nwahomepage.com/northwe...-duggars-past-sexual-molestation-allegations/
Josh begs judge to ban cop's 'opinion' star's child was ‘worst ever'

I hear you, but whether a post was public is not the standard for admissibility. Only relevant evidence is admissible, and even relevant evidence should be excluded if the risk of prejudice outweighs the probative value. Article IV - Relevance and its Limits - 2021 Federal Rules of Evidence

 

[Cool Cats]

I hear you, but whether a post was public is not the standard for admissibility. Only relevant evidence is admissible, and even relevant evidence should be excluded if the risk of prejudice outweighs the probative value. Article IV - Relevance and its Limits - 2021 Federal Rules of Evidence

So it will be interesting to find out what the judge rules.

Yes or No - Keep in Josh's Facebook "confession."

Yes or No - Keep in agent's opinion that what he saw was the "worst of the worst."

Yes or No - Keep in Josh's past sexual molestation allegations. (Sisters/babysitter)

 

[MsMarple]

I hear you, but whether a post was public is not the standard for admissibility. Only relevant evidence is admissible, and even relevant evidence should be excluded if the risk of prejudice outweighs the probative value. Article IV - Relevance and its Limits - 2021 Federal Rules of Evidence

I reluctantly agree with you. An argument could probably be made to keep the social media statements but it's not likely to succeed.

The more important motion IMO is the opinion of the federal agent speaking as an expert witness. I hope that one prevails but still, if not it probably won't impact the prosecution's case.

IMO the case will stand as is whether or not additional evidence is submitted or suppressed. Josh has really dug himself into a deep hole this time. MOO.

 

[Cool Cats]

I reluctantly agree with you. An argument could probably be made to keep the social media statements but it's not likely to succeed.

The more important motion IMO is the opinion of the federal agent speaking as an expert witness. I hope that one prevails but still, if not it probably won't impact the prosecution's case.

IMO the case will stand as is whether or not additional evidence is submitted or suppressed. Josh has really dug himself into a deep hole this time. MOO.

The Main thing:

It is that typical, can you use someone's past against them?

The prosecution wants to get Josh's past sexual misconduct before the jury.

According to court documents, the prosecution says it may seek to introduce evidence at trial that Duggar committed other acts of sexual molestation.

The prosecution anticipates the evidence will consist of testimony that Duggar was investigated for, admitted to, and received counseling for sexually molesting minor females, beginning around 2002.

Should the prosecution be able to use this against Josh at his trial?

Yes √
No √

 

[Shamrock1]

So it will be interesting to find out what the judge rules.

Yes or No - Keep in Josh's Facebook "confession."

Yes or No - Keep in agent's opinion that what he saw was the "worst of the worst."

I wouldn't be surprised if both stay out.

Completely different context, but I think the judge struggled with Josh's past in deciding whether to allow access to the kids. Honestly, I think that a graphic description of the CSAM is more powerful than "worst of the worst." I linked to an article with that description and a mod edited my post with the warning that I neglected to include. Actually hearing what body parts went where is jarring.

As for the "confession" it gets tricky. As to Ashley Madison, the affair isn't relevant here IMO. As to viewing legal , viewing legal itself isn't the issue here, but it does go to his knowledge of getting around the Covenant software (and to be clear: I don't regard CSAM as pornographic entertainment.) The molestation is going to the trickiest, IMO, because he's not accused of molestation here. I'll have to do some research on that one. Even if previously molesting girls is relevant here, it could be considered unduly prejudicial. I haven't read the motions yet so apologies if I'm just repeating!

At the end of the day, I don't think it is fatal to the prosecution if all this is excluded.