Josh Duggar charged with Receipt/Possession Child Sexual Abuse Material, 29 April 2021 *guilty* #3

[gitana1]

I can't recall what was in that Josh video the jury requested.

What video did they request? Did they request to see one? I would hate to be them.

 

[gitana1]

Do we have the jury instructions?

 

[CrimeAway]

What video did they request? Did they request to see one? I would hate to be them.

I believe that they requested to see the interview with JJD again

Do we have the jury instructions?

Not as far as I have seen.

 

[RickshawFan]

I have a large family. But I don't see how this is any different than a small family. What happens in a small family will affect everyone. And every individual in a family has a different relationship with each person just as they would any outside friends and family.

My sense from what @mickey2942 said is that ALL families are like mobiles, small families and big families. But s/he can correct my take.

I would guess in a "healthy" family, the mobile would right itself, even if at a new balancing point, a new equilibrium, unless maybe in a catastrophe (e.g. a death), where a part of the mobile went missing. Even those might get righted, but maybe some "mobiles" just get destroyed. I am guessing here, though, I didn't get to thinking about this until @mickey2942 put the metaphor out there.

Then I started to think about this idea and went to the possibility that the members of some families can be so constrained that the mobile parts never wobble. Duggars might be an example until some of the kids started moving out of the house and getting their own lives?

Also, the mobile metaphor might only apply to our culture and not be universal? I might have got myself into a tangent with this one....

 

[Cool Cats]

What video did they request? Did they request to see one? I would hate to be them.

Here is the interview the jury wanted to hear again.

Shortly after 2:20 p.m. the jury asked to listen to the April 2021 interview of Duggar again. The interview was played for the jury in the courtroom. All three parts of the interview were conducted during the search warrant execution by Homeland Security Investigation agents at Wholesale Motorcars.

Josh Duggar trial: Prosecution calls Homeland Security investigator, jury hears search warrant interview of Duggar

Duggar’s Interview – Part 1
The interview began with Duggar providing the agents with some information about himself, including that he was the owner of the car lot. He confirmed that Ozarks Go was his internet provider there, and that he had altered his internet setup the week prior.

He also provided information such as his cell number, personal email address, and an explanation that family members and employees commonly had access to his electronic devices.

He detailed that his iPhone 11 was relatively new, just purchased two months after it was released. He said his Macbook Pro laptop was about 5 years old, and the HP desktop computer in the office was 2.5-3 years old.

When the subject of USB flash drives was broached by the agents, Duggar told them that “there’s probably more than one thumbdrive in there.” They asked if the drives were his, and he stated that he didn’t know, because finding them in vehicles was a common occurrence.

“I don’t know,” Duggar said. “If they’re here, they’re here. I don’t know.”

He added that he had wiped some of the devices in the past and used them for pictures of cars.

Duggar’s Interview – Part 2
In section 2, the jury heard the special agents steer the conversation toward file-sharing and peer-to-peer applications. They asked Duggar if he was familiar with Napster as an example.

Duggar stated that he had heard of it, but that it was “a little before my time.”

He did confirm that all of his electronic devices had peer-to-peer file sharing software installed on them. Duggar added that he also uses a Tor browser that a friend helped him install for file sharing.

Special Agent Faulkner stated that Tor had been no part of their investigation at that time, and that it is primarily used to access the dark web. Special Agent Faulkner added that using Tor makes it difficult or impossible for a device’s IP address to be tracked.

The agents sought to clarify whether Duggar was referring to Tor, or simply , a file sharing client.

He seemed to not know the difference. When asked what purpose the Tor browser served for him, he was unsure. “I don’t recall,” said Duggar on the recording. “I can’t speak to that.”

At this juncture, Duggar began to ask more questions of his own. “Is that what you’re saying is going on?” he queried. “Is something going on on my devices?”

He continued by asking if his IP address had been marked, which the agents confirmed.

Special Agent Faulkner explained that a majority of ICAC cases involving the Tor browser involve child . He added that the dark web is a known source of illegal material, and that “you can actually buy a child” for trafficking purposes.

The prosecution then asked the agent if using a dark web browser would be typical for a used car lot.

“Common sense of it?” asked Special Agent Faulkner. “No, sir. I would not think the dark web would be the best place to do that.”

Duggar’s Interview – Part 3
Attorneys for both sides conducted a brief sidebar before proceeding to the third and final part of the recording.

When the recording continued to play for the jurors, Duggar continued with his own questions, asking if the case directly connected to a certain IP address. He followed that up by asking if the device in question was “transmitting or receiving?” illegal images.

“It’s best you just listen,” an agent told Duggar.

“We don’t want to speculate,” the agents added. “That’s why we came here.” They explained that they would be investigating the “digital fingerprint of everything that ever happened” on seized electronics devices.

“I’m not denying guilt,” Duggar replied. “I don’t want to say the wrong thing.”

 

[mickey2942]

@RickshawFan the "model" ironically, works for all families and cultures. Especially repressed cultures. One child gets "kicked" out for not following the "rules" and no one is supposed to mention that person again.

Everyone had a different relationship with that person. It is going to affect everyone. Maybe less for people not in the household.

This family is fractured. I hope that they get some help. Professional help. Especially Anna and her children.

It would be free at school, if they attended school.

 

[Bravo]

I see no verdict. So I will go with a Friday verdict.

 

[Teche]

Wow. She looks super young!

https://www.loehrsforensics.com/michelebush

How odd that she went from a degree in psychology and a minor in criminal justice to forensics investigations.

 

[CrimeAway]

How odd that she went from a degree in psychology and a minor in criminal justice to forensics investigations.

It seems to be a family business. JMO

 

[Springrain]

How odd that she went from a degree in psychology and a minor in criminal justice to forensics investigations.

I was thinking that too. I did a history major and no one's asking me to be an "expert witness" on computer forensics.

 

[MsJosie]

No, there is a lot of evidence to review. The jury needs to make a thoughtful evaluation of the evidence presented.

I wouldn't expect anything until Friday. JMO.

and the jury has to go over all their instructions first which someone said could take two hours….they probably are very tired.

 

[Zella]

and the jury has to go over all their instructions first which someone said could take two hours….they probably are very tired.

I think that tracks. They apparently went into deliberations around 12:15 pm and then asked to hear the recorded interview from the day of the search warrant 2 hours and 10 minutes later. Sounds like as soon as they got through the administrative/procedural stuff, that was probably their first order of business.

 

[JayWill]

I am nervous about this. It seems like an open and shut case to me, but the jury seem to be looking for things to exonerate him. MOO.

 

[RickshawFan]

@RickshawFan the "model" ironically, works for all families and cultures. Especially repressed cultures. One child gets "kicked" out for not following the "rules" and no one is supposed to mention that person again.

Everyone had a different relationship with that person. It is going to affect everyone. Maybe less for people not in the household.

This family is fractured. I hope that they get some help. Professional help. Especially Anna and her children.

It would be free at school, if they attended school.

I'm so glad you brought up this idea, @mickey2942 . It's really got me thinking. I never thought about families quite this way.

Interesting that Josh doesn't appear to be the one "kicked out" of the Duggar family. The girls were the scapegoats to right the family. I guess that didn't work out....

It also sounds as though the Duggars might easily whitewash Josh even if he gets convicted, maybe something along the lines of "the devil is testing our faith".

 

[Teche]

I was thinking that too. I did a history major and no one's asking me to be an "expert witness" on computer forensics.

My husband has a degree in computer science and served as a computer analyst with 40 yrs experience. He can design programs/software and knows 3 or 4 computer languages. My husband isn't an expert witness either. I can see a person degree in computer technology or computer engineering doing forensic investigations.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I am nervous about this. It seems like an open and shut case to me, but the jury seem to be looking for things to exonerate him. MOO.

Easy. There's no reason to think the jury is looking for things to exonerate him, IMO.

They are taking their time and considering the evidence seriously, which is their job.

 

[Springrain]

Easy. There's no reason to think the jury is looking for things to exonerate him, IMO.

They are taking their time and considering the evidence seriously, which is their job.

I bet there's a lot of discussion over the computer forensics stuff. I would imagine that is probably the main topic of the deliberations, since it was such a big part of the trial. JMO.

 

[mickey2942]

I'm so glad you brought up this idea, @mickey2942 . It's really got me thinking. I never thought about families quite this way.

Interesting that Josh doesn't appear to be the one "kicked out" of the Duggar family. The girls were the scapegoats to right the family. I guess that didn't work out....

It also sounds as though the Duggars might easily whitewash Josh even if he gets convicted, maybe something along the lines of "the devil is testing our faith".

What this really shows, is the toxicity of hiding family secrets. And the fact that Josh Duggar never received the help he needed. Nor did his victims.

If the very first time, Josh had done this, and it seems to me that his victim DID tell her parents, it was minimized and basically ignored. Which is why the behavior continued and escalated. I suspect that there is much more we don't know. That even now, there are still a lot of secrets that the family will not acknowledge. MOO

This isn't uncommon, it is when it is ignored, minimized, and never dealt with professionally, that the problem grows exponentially.

The Duggars should have had Josh in intensive counseling from the beginning. And I also don't think that the church counseling he had after the "Ashley Madison" debacle made any changes. Obviously. It is sad to me, because I truly believe that professional therapy could have helped Josh Duggar. Before this mess.

 

[CrimeAway]

What this really shows, is the toxicity of hiding family secrets. And the fact that Josh Duggar never received the help he needed. Nor did his victims.

If the very first time, Josh had done this, and it seems to me that his victim DID tell her parents, it was minimized and basically ignored. Which is why the behavior continued and escalated. I suspect that there is much more we don't know. That even now, there are still a lot of secrets that the family will not acknowledge. MOO

This isn't uncommon, it is when it is ignored, minimized, and never dealt with professionally, that the problem grows exponentially.

The Duggars should have had Josh in intensive counseling from the beginning. And I also don't think that the church counseling he had after the "Ashley Madison" debacle made any changes. Obviously. It is sad to me, because I truly believe that professional therapy could have helped Josh Duggar. Before this mess.

So true, JMO

 

[HawthorneJuniper]

Easy. There's no reason to think the jury is looking for things to exonerate him, IMO.

They are taking their time and considering the evidence seriously, which is their job.

If they were they wouldn’t be listening to that incredibly damning interview. I’m thinking that may have served to confirm something. It doesn’t contain anything that could help him. His attorneys tried to have it excluded. And that’s all they wanted other than a calendar.

I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s quick tomorrow. Many times I’ve seen a decided jury go home for the night, sleep on it and reconfirm when they’re fresh in the am. Not saying this is definite or anything. I just wouldn’t be surprised.