Josh Duggar charged with Receipt/Possession Child Sexual Abuse Material, 29 April 2021 *guilty* #3

[Zella]

If they were they wouldn’t be listening to that incredibly damning interview. I’m thinking that may have served to confirm something. It doesn’t contain anything that could help him. His attorneys tried to have it excluded.

Bingo! He admits to a lot in that interview, and his questions for the investigators seriously undermine the defense's presentation of him as a novice about technology and computers. In many ways, his own words are every bit as damning as anything the prosecution has said.

 

[RickshawFan]

My husband has a degree in computer science and served as a computer analyst with 40 yrs experience. He can design programs/software and knows 3 or 4 computer languages. My husband isn't an expert witness either. I can see a person degree in computer technology or computer engineering doing forensic investigations.

Maybe the prosecution should have grilled her bona fides?

I agree. With the psychology and criminal justice, there would have been no training in technology. Maybe a little forensics, but perhaps something like body language. Even if she'd been adept in something where she could re-apply analytical skills (maybe math or linguistics or architecture or something), it would help in a profession like hers, especially as she got more experience. But no technology like network design, coding, platforms; no work for a technology company where a lot of ideas get batted around and there'd be geeks everywhere? No way. And expert witness? That's a whole 'nother level of adeptitude.

I'm looking at Bush's bio. I'm thinking she just runs an industry-specific software that gives her the data she uses in forensic analysis. She could maybe know zip about hardware or even how networks (and their accoutrements) work?

Here's her bio from the firm, which she apparently owns:
https://www.loehrsforensics.com/michelebush

 

[RickshawFan]

What this really shows, is the toxicity of hiding family secrets. And the fact that Josh Duggar never received the help he needed. Nor did his victims.

If the very first time, Josh had done this, and it seems to me that his victim DID tell her parents, it was minimized and basically ignored. Which is why the behavior continued and escalated. I suspect that there is much more we don't know. That even now, there are still a lot of secrets that the family will not acknowledge. MOO

This isn't uncommon, it is when it is ignored, minimized, and never dealt with professionally, that the problem grows exponentially.

The Duggars should have had Josh in intensive counseling from the beginning. And I also don't think that the church counseling he had after the "Ashley Madison" debacle made any changes. Obviously. It is sad to me, because I truly believe that professional therapy could have helped Josh Duggar. Before this mess.

I'm nor sure that pedophilia develops, though? It's like a runaway train: you can't stop it, even with counseling or maybe medication. And he may have had a history of torturing things and getting aroused that we don't know about (but which I would assume is likely).

 

[JayWill]

Maybe the prosecution should have grilled her bona fides?

I agree. With the psychology and criminal justice, there would have been no training in technology. Maybe a little forensics, but perhaps something like body language. Even if she'd been adept in something where she could re-apply analytical skills (maybe math or linguistics or architecture or something), it would help in a profession like hers, especially as she got more experience. But no technology like network design, coding, platforms; no work for a technology company where a lot of ideas get batted around and there'd be geeks everywhere? No way. And expert witness? That's a whole 'nother level of adeptitude.

I'm looking at Bush's bio. I'm thinking she just runs an inIdustry-specific software that gives her the data she uses in forensic analysis. She could maybe know zip about hardware or even how networks (and their accoutrements) work?

Here's her bio from the firm, which she apparently owns:
https://www.loehrsforensics.com/michelebush

I thought that her parents own the firm.

 

[RickshawFan]

I thought that her parents own the firm.

The bio I cited from her firm's website says she's an owner.

 

[JayWill]

The bio I cited from her firm's website says she's an owner.

Even more ridiculous.

 

[mickey2942]

I'm nor sure that pedophilia develops, though? It's like a runaway train: you can't stop it, even with counseling or maybe medication. And he may have had a history of torturing things and getting aroused that we don't know about (but which I would assume is likely).

I believe that a lot of Josh Duggar's dysfunction has been from rage and lack of control in his life. If he could have been given the opportunity to channel that rage into productivity, there might have been a chance.

Or, there is the theory that psychopaths are born that way and can't be "fixed". I don't think that is true. If identified young enough, and helped, they don't have a predisposed fate for a life of criminal behavior. Josh Duggar is a sexual deviant. I believe that if he had been given professional help then, he would not be in this crisis now.

 

[RickshawFan]

I believe that a lot of Josh Duggar's dysfunction has been from rage and lack of control in his life. If he could have been given the opportunity to channel that rage into productivity, there might have been a chance.

Or, there is the theory that psychopaths are born that way and can't be "fixed". I don't think that is true. If identified young enough, and helped, they don't have a predisposed fate for a life of criminal behavior. Josh Duggar is a sexual deviant. I believe that if he had been given professional help then, he would not be in this crisis now.

I guess I don’t see pedophilia as dysfunction or displaced rage.
But I agree with your point on psychopaths. A significant number of CEO’s qualify as psychopaths: 3.5% versus 1% in the general population.CEO psychopaths by and large haven’t committed crimes, but presumably ruthlessness and lack of empathy make for business success.
Forbes article on psychopaths and CEO’s: Senior Executives Are More Likely To Be Psychopaths

 

[gitana1]

I believe that they requested to see the interview with JJD again



Not as far as I have seen.

Thanks!!!

 

[gitana1]

Here is the interview the jury wanted to hear again.

Shortly after 2:20 p.m. the jury asked to listen to the April 2021 interview of Duggar again. The interview was played for the jury in the courtroom. All three parts of the interview were conducted during the search warrant execution by Homeland Security Investigation agents at Wholesale Motorcars.

Josh Duggar trial: Prosecution calls Homeland Security investigator, jury hears search warrant interview of Duggar

Duggar’s Interview – Part 1
The interview began with Duggar providing the agents with some information about himself, including that he was the owner of the car lot. He confirmed that Ozarks Go was his internet provider there, and that he had altered his internet setup the week prior.

He also provided information such as his cell number, personal email address, and an explanation that family members and employees commonly had access to his electronic devices.

He detailed that his iPhone 11 was relatively new, just purchased two months after it was released. He said his Macbook Pro laptop was about 5 years old, and the HP desktop computer in the office was 2.5-3 years old.

When the subject of USB flash drives was broached by the agents, Duggar told them that “there’s probably more than one thumbdrive in there.” They asked if the drives were his, and he stated that he didn’t know, because finding them in vehicles was a common occurrence.

“I don’t know,” Duggar said. “If they’re here, they’re here. I don’t know.”

He added that he had wiped some of the devices in the past and used them for pictures of cars.

Duggar’s Interview – Part 2
In section 2, the jury heard the special agents steer the conversation toward file-sharing and peer-to-peer applications. They asked Duggar if he was familiar with Napster as an example.

Duggar stated that he had heard of it, but that it was “a little before my time.”

He did confirm that all of his electronic devices had peer-to-peer file sharing software installed on them. Duggar added that he also uses a Tor browser that a friend helped him install for file sharing.

Special Agent Faulkner stated that Tor had been no part of their investigation at that time, and that it is primarily used to access the dark web. Special Agent Faulkner added that using Tor makes it difficult or impossible for a device’s IP address to be tracked.

The agents sought to clarify whether Duggar was referring to Tor, or simply , a file sharing client.

He seemed to not know the difference. When asked what purpose the Tor browser served for him, he was unsure. “I don’t recall,” said Duggar on the recording. “I can’t speak to that.”

At this juncture, Duggar began to ask more questions of his own. “Is that what you’re saying is going on?” he queried. “Is something going on on my devices?”

He continued by asking if his IP address had been marked, which the agents confirmed.

Special Agent Faulkner explained that a majority of ICAC cases involving the Tor browser involve child . He added that the dark web is a known source of illegal material, and that “you can actually buy a child” for trafficking purposes.

The prosecution then asked the agent if using a dark web browser would be typical for a used car lot.

“Common sense of it?” asked Special Agent Faulkner. “No, sir. I would not think the dark web would be the best place to do that.”

Duggar’s Interview – Part 3
Attorneys for both sides conducted a brief sidebar before proceeding to the third and final part of the recording.

When the recording continued to play for the jurors, Duggar continued with his own questions, asking if the case directly connected to a certain IP address. He followed that up by asking if the device in question was “transmitting or receiving?” illegal images.

“It’s best you just listen,” an agent told Duggar.

“We don’t want to speculate,” the agents added. “That’s why we came here.” They explained that they would be investigating the “digital fingerprint of everything that ever happened” on seized electronics devices.

“I’m not denying guilt,” Duggar replied. “I don’t want to say the wrong thing.”

Thanks so much for that, Cool!

 

[gitana1]

I see no verdict. So I will go with a Friday verdict.

Are they out tomorrow?

 

[Zella]

Are they out tomorrow?

No, they're scheduled to start deliberating at 8:30 am for Thursday.

 

[Springrain]

No, they're scheduled to start deliberating at 8:30 am for Thursday.

Fingers crossed for a speedy verdict Thursday.

 

[BeckyF]

DBM

 

[BeckyF]

Fingers crossed for a speedy verdict Thursday.

Yes! Thursday.

 

[minusfour]

I understand his wife is in a complicated situation, but what can she be thinking, really? What about his five known victims, (there may be others, there most probably are), how could they make any sense of this? I cannot believe that his family really believe he is innocent of these charges. They can't. Depressing.

 

[Bravo]

Oh good grief I have lost a day this week. Yes back today which is Thursday and not Friday. Sorry for the confusion. I think we will see a verdict perhaps today.

 

[BeckyF]

I hope that the Department of Homeland Security can put more investigators on their payroll. Perhaps they have since Josh Duggar was arrested but it seems they need more staff to protect these victims. Investigators knew about the CSAM being downloaded from the car lot in May 2019 but the car lot was not raided until Nov. 2019. According to the DOJ employee, upon cross by the defense team, he stated the reason for the delay was that they had children in a current and desperate situation (paraphrasing). It seems many victims could fall through the cracks with such long delays.

 

[SweaterGirl]

If I were a juror listening again to that interview, JD's voluntarily offered statement "I'm not denying guilt" would be ringing in my ears, and extremely hard to get past. Who says that when questioned by police, if they are innocent and unaware of wrongdoing!?!

People tell you who they are, and I feel in Josh's case, he quite literally TOLD the jury he was guilty.

I feel JD was (possibly) inadvertently coached at a very young age into his perversions by witnessing or being shown sexual violence against children. The adviser his parents sent him to, the family friend, after the initial molestation admissions, was later convicted of CSAM charges. Just how long had this family friend had access to JD when he was young? I believe some of this deviance is imprinted by early exposure, and modeled from that point on. I'm not accusing any particular person, but I do think it's no coincidence that "trusted family friends" turned out to be involved in the same form of behavior later emerging as a pattern in JD. Children get warped quite often by what they see and learn while too young to properly process the experiences.

I'm also wondering if JD's Ashley Madison and cheating scandals were actually attempts by JD to NOT act out his desires on children (even his own.) I think these infidelities and addictions could very well have been desperate efforts to keep his pedophilic urges at bay. He may have been desperately trying not to be a monster, which would show some hint of self-consciousness and self-rejection. (But IMOO it was too late and too misguided; he was already a monster.) The fact that he was accused by one of the AM women of a violent assault says to me that violence in sexual expression is one of his secret needs, which he may have been trying to spare Anna in his mind by looking elsewhere.

If this post breaks rules, I apologize. Please leave in the parts that don't. All of this is MOO, and just me trying to understand the things that shape human behavior. With compassion and a sense of tragedy for all involved, and sadness (with anger) for the brutal systems and schemes that people continue to adhere to at the expense of children. As long as these systems persist, there will always be a market, unfortunately, for CSAM.

I hope that Josh is found guilty on both counts, given max sentences, forced to register, and never sees his children again. I also pray that Anna will find her way out of her own chains, if not for herself, then for her kids. These things have a way of repeating through generations, and I fervently hope Anna will stop the buck in time, if it's not already too late.

 

[Shamrock1]

I have three thoughts on the defense expert. First, they may have struggled to find an expert given the facts of the case. I don’t mean CSAM - I mean the tech issues. Tech is different from, say, standards of care in a medmal case or a soft-tissue injury. Second, they may have wanted a female witness for the optics. Third, she’s young and probably easier for some attorneys to work with. Some experts will really hold fast to their opinions and the attorney has to limit the scope of what the expert is hired for; a newbie’s opinion may be easier for an attorney to “massage.” She did get some good sound bites in.

And the issue isn’t whether she’s correct or experienced - it’s what the jury thinks.

(By way of analogy, there is a particular American news network with fantastic sound bites/headlines but lacking in other respects.)

JMO.

ETA: I don’t mean defense set out to hire a female. But I think they had limited options available. I’d hire a bad female over a bad male if my male client had Josh’s history and allegations.