JR lies right off the bat...

[DeeDee249]

JBR could have screamed from sheer terror, or from the pain of a sexual assault. It isn't absolutely proven whether the stab from the paintbrush (or whatever caused the bruising and bleeding in her vagina) occurred when JBR was alive and conscious, alive and unconscious, or dying. It's only known that for bruising and bleeding to occur, her heart would have to be still pumping. In comments by other coroners who have reviewed the autopsy reports, it's stated that whatever caused those wounds would have been extremly painful to a child, and if alive she would have certainly screamed.

 

[BOESP]

As far as the abuse occuring outside the house...possible, but not probable. I have seen statements referring to the fact that access to a child of this age is limited- kids that age are not usually somewhere without a parent. I know they can be at a friends' home- and abuse can and does occur in a situation like that. But JBR was a bright, bold child. I can't see her not telling her parents. Or at least refusing to be with a particular person.

DeeDee, I'd agree that if JonBenet were being molested outside the home, she'd tell Patsy. I don't think she'd just refuse to be with the person.

I don't think, based on the autopsy, that the abuse was likely sexual in nature. A predator or pedophile would have left much worse damage than what the report describes and it would be almost unheard of to perform those activities without first removing the child from the home.

 

[JMO8778]

JBR could have screamed from sheer terror, or from the pain of a sexual assault. It isn't absolutely proven whether the stab from the paintbrush (or whatever caused the bruising and bleeding in her vagina) occurred when JBR was alive and conscious, alive and unconscious, or dying. It's only known that for bruising and bleeding to occur, her heart would have to be still pumping. In comments by other coroners who have reviewed the autopsy reports, it's stated that whatever caused those wounds would have been extremly painful to a child, and if alive she would have certainly screamed.

I certainly hope she was unconcious during the paintbrush injury.I wonder who screamed and why,if a scream was really was heard.I tend to think it was.I just wonder if it could have came from anywhere else in the house.

 

[Albert18]

I don't think, based on the autopsy, that the abuse was likely sexual in nature.

I agree. If JonBenet was in fact being sexually abused, but had no toileting issues, I think she would still be alive.

JonBenet may or may not have been sexually abused, she may or may not have been bathed enough, it really doesn't matter. The elephant in the room is the toileting problem.

 

[coloradokares]

I agree. If JonBenet was in fact being sexually abused, but had no toileting issues, I think she would still be alive.

JonBenet may or may not have been sexually abused, she may or may not have been bathed enough, it really doesn't matter. The elephant in the room is the toileting problem.

Jon Benet would be alive todayif they would have dealt with the mental health issues. Rage that sontaneously combusts like that isnt a secret from the family. It is seen and excused away, ...

 

[BOESP]

Jon Benet would be alive todayif they would have dealt with the mental health issues. Rage that sontaneously combusts like that isnt a secret from the family. It is seen and excused away, ...

CK, do you have an opinion on who had the issues? If so, can you spend that opinion here? (By the way, I agree with your line of thinking.)

 

[Solace]

CK, do you have an opinion on who had the issues? If so, can you spend that opinion here? (By the way, I agree with your line of thinking.)

Not sure where I read this, may have been Thomas' book. but I believe the housekeeper said that when JB was born, Patsy revolved around Burke, and when JB was older, Patsy revolved around JB. When Patsy started focusing on JB, Burke stopped wetting the bed and JB started.

Of course now JB was not taught, we have to remember that. Nedra, the slovenly, was around to take care of her while Patsy was sick. So that should be taken into consideration. But it is interesting that Burke stopped wetting the bed.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

That's right, Solace. That info about Burke no longer wetting the bed when Patsy's center of attention shifted from Burke to JonBenet (when JB was about 3) came from Linda Wilcox, the housekeeper prior to LHP. That's extremely interesting.

 

[Solace]

That's right, Solace. That info about Burke no longer wetting the bed when Patsy's center of attention shifted from Burke to JonBenet (when JB was about 3) came from Linda Wilcox, the housekeeper prior to LHP. That's extremely interesting.

IMO, Patsy probably drove everyone crazy. From the decorating of the house to the pageants for JonBenet. It seems Burke didn't say much about anything according to the housekeepers (I seem to have read that) and his reaction to the murder was bizarre at the very least. My son would have asked a zillion questions at 5 years old.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

I find Burke's behavior and lack of questioning in reference to his sister's murder, plus his complete lack of fear of a reprise, to be an indication that he has some knowledge of what happened, and that he has nothing to fear personally from JB's killer.

 

[Solace]

I find Burke's behavior and lack of questioning in reference to his sister's murder, plus his complete lack of fear of a reprise, to be an indication that he has some knowledge of what happened, and that he has nothing to fear personally from JB's killer.

I mean his sister is dead, murdered, and he leaves the house with his new Nintendo or whatever it was and when he is being questioned he asks if the person is wearing a rolex watch. It is bizarre and wrong and his attitude is flippant; you know what I mean; as if he is disinterested.

Now you are either in shock, or you hated your sister, or you are involved or you have serious psychological problems. But it is a year after the death when he is acting flippant. This is a brutal murder of your little sister - I am sorry, but if the family were as christian and loving as Patsy says, why is Burke so disinterested? He is like one of the kids in Village of The Damned and I mean that in all seriousness.

He is the only who is ever going to be able to tell us anything. John will never and Burke has to have heard something. Insanity ruled that night and if someone thinks they are being quiet in a situation like this (I mean making no noise) they are wrong. Burke heard something and it was not just creaking and noises.

Maybe he could not put it together during the night, but the screaming was loud that morning and he got up. But later on he had to have given this thought. So John and Patsy had to scare him in to keeping his mouth shut. I don't mean by physically threatening him, I mean psychologically.

So much for my theory that John knew nothing.

 

[JMO8778]

Jon Benet would be alive todayif they would have dealt with the mental health issues. Rage that sontaneously combusts like that isnt a secret from the family. It is seen and excused away, ...

exactly !

 

[JMO8778]

I definitely think BR will put the pieces together someday,when he's ready and able to deal with it.Having kids of his own will make him think,too.He won't be able to dismiss it anymore when he's older,IMO.

 

[DeeDee249]

DeeDee, I'd agree that if JonBenet were being molested outside the home, she'd tell Patsy. I don't think she'd just refuse to be with the person.

I don't think, based on the autopsy, that the abuse was likely sexual in nature. A predator or pedophile would have left much worse damage than what the report describes and it would be almost unheard of to perform those activities without first removing the child from the home.

BUT what if the sexual abuse WASN'T done by a pedophile or predator? What if it was a family member? Then it wouldn't have to be extreme. She would just be, to quote Nedra- "a little bit abused". I feel the autopsy definitely indicates sexual abuse, and at least 3 other forensic specialists agree. What else would cause that bruising, epithelial erosion, hymenal erosion? The hymen is NOT near the external opening of the labia- it is fairly far up. It would not be broken/eroded by a washcloth. The bruising would not be the result of "corporal cleansing". Now douching- that hasn't actually been proved or disproved- but if standard adult apparatus was used on a 6-year old girl, that could break/erode the hymen and possibly cause the rest of the injuries. BUT- I feel using a douche on a 6-year old girl is also a form of sexual abuse...whether PR knew it or not.

 

[BOESP]

...BUT- I feel using a douche on a 6-year old girl is also a form of sexual abuse...whether PR knew it or not.

Your above idea is certainly a possibility as is digital application of some type ointment for whatever ailment JonBenet may have had. She may have used suppositories for freshness possibly.

 

[DeeDee249]

An ointment would probably been discovered in the autopsy. Vaginal swabs were taken. But anything that dissolves (like a suppository) might not be noticed.

 

[BOESP]

An ointment would probably been discovered in the autopsy. Vaginal swabs were taken. But anything that dissolves (like a suppository) might not be noticed.

If memory serves me, the autopsy did mention a watery fluid-like substance found in the vagina. I'd have to look it up to be sure of the exact wording. There's a good, easily readable autopsy report (sans photographs) on-line at http://www.thesmokinggun.com/ using search words Jonbenet and autopsy.

 

[Toltec]

Get a grip you guys....DOUCHING??? Did JonBenet have her period? Women usually douch after sex and when they are menstruating.

If there was indeed douching, the chemicals would be noticed by CBI technicians because JonBenet's vaginal area was swabbed. This is something only Sybils mother would do....not Patsy.

 

[coloradokares]

CK, do you have an opinion on who had the issues? If so, can you spend that opinion here? (By the way, I agree with your line of thinking.)

Yes and it was Patsy for many reasons that I have suspected that along with so many other signs. We have a DIL that has bipolar and other issues and I recognize many of them in this situaton.

 

[UKGuy]

If memory serves me, the autopsy did mention a watery fluid-like substance found in the vagina. I'd have to look it up to be sure of the exact wording. There's a good, easily readable autopsy report (sans photographs) on-line at http://www.thesmokinggun.com/ using search words Jonbenet and autopsy.

BOESP,

The forensic evidence suggests sexual molestation, Coroner Meyer's verbatim autopsy remarks digital penetration cannot be less precise, he is the pathologist, he was there , we were not.

That JonBenet was sexually abused appears a credible theory with supporting evidence, other theories are redundant until the sexual abuse can be shown to be inconsistent.

Corporal cleansing, douching etc have no supporting forensic evidence at all, there are no douching products mentioned in any warrant lists, Steve Thomas has never mentioned any such items, and its his theory, which he admits is also inclonclusive.

JonBenet's parents and her extended family contributed towards grooming a 6-year old Pageant Princess who also displays signs of both chronic and acute sexual molestation, along with public displays of sexual precociousness.

One thing that is missing are the family photographs taken of JonBenet, e.g. those taken or found down in the basement, the poses, her dresses, or lack of, any makeup, lipstick, hairstyles etc all may give us a further insight into the psychology of the person grooming JonBenet. In some of her public photographs JonBenet appears 6 going on 16, wearing makeup, or adopting provocative poses. I suspect psychologically Patsy was ceding place to JonBenet by allowing such behaviour, possibly even a tacit approval of another role JonBenet was playing within the dynamics of the Ramsey family relationships?


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