Juggalo Thread

[wfgodot]

Thanks. I think I actually should've put that post on the MW/Jersey thread since it ended up being more about Jersey in general than his potentially being a Juggalo. Should I delete it here and move it to the other thread?

No! Leave it here and copy & paste it to the other thread also. It fits in with both.

 

[hambirg]

When did Jersey become a Juggalo? The only Juggalos that are known are MW and DG unless someone has a link.

I've never heard that DG is a Juggalo. Where is that from?

 

[NFYIAMY]

I had read online back early in this case - about MW and Jersey being Juggalo's. I know that MW had it on her FB page - and I believe there was a lot said about it there (RE: Jersey - but a lot of that info got changed at one point). It's been reported (don't have the link but I did read it somewhere legit) - as well as on FB the info that Dane is one, too.

Birds of a feather?

Also - just want to say - that although I agree that many so called 'juggalo's' are just being 'trendy' --- you have to consider the mental/psychological affect those lyrics would have on a trouble mind. Listen to something long enough - your mind will begin to process it differently. Just sayin'.

 

[Donjeta]

No but there are lots of songs about REVENGE and RAGE as being the ultimate
mission in one's life. If a juggalo is 'dissed' then they have to get revenge or they lose all respect from their tribe/ And revenge is often the most violent worst thing that can imagine.

Look up Juggalo crimes on google.Teens killing parents for having curfews.
Guys killing their girlfriends and THEN raping them. Sop taking a baby is not impossible to imagine. Especially since they are cowards who hide behind masks, like Shawn Atkins did.

That's frightening...

Revenge for what? I thought DB and JI don't even know any of these people so how did they manage to diss them so badly Lisa had to go?

Teens killing their parents know them; guys killing their girlfriends know them. I don't doubt for a minute that people do awful things to their nearest and dearest and to those they hate or who insulted them.

But the motives of those crimes probably have very little to do with the motives of snatching a random baby from people you don't know.

 

[Jacie Estes]

That's frightening...

Revenge for what? I thought DB and JI don't even know any of these people so how did they manage to diss them so badly Lisa had to go?

Teens killing their parents know them; guys killing their girlfriends know them. I don't doubt for a minute that people do awful things to their nearest and dearest and to those they hate or who insulted them.

But the motives of those crimes probably have very little to do with the motives of snatching a random baby from people you don't know.

Revenge for the sake of revenge; there is no rhyme or reason to a counter-culture, that is why any counter-culture group is not mainstream. The thinking is outside of the standard of most society. Random acts of crime rather than random acts of kindness.

If you are aware of Capote's In Cold Blood; the killers did not know the family. The same stands for killers like Ted Bundy, Richard Ramirez and John Wayne Gacy; it is doing an action for the sake of doing it. There are also counter culture groups such as bikers, politically and phlosophically motivated groups such as Al-Quaida.

 

[Donjeta]

Revenge for the sake of revenge; there is no rhyme or reason to a counter-culture, that is why any counter-culture group is not mainstream. The thinking is outside of the standard of most society. Random acts of crime rather than random acts of kindness.

If you are aware of Capote's In Cold Blood; the killers did not know the family. The same stands for killers like Ted Bundy, Richard Ramirez and John Wayne Gacy; it is doing an action for the sake of doing it.

It is possible that some crazy psychopath belonging to an insane subculture killed Lisa for the thrill of the killing but if so I don't see what revenge has to do with it.

revenge (rɪˈvɛnd&#658

— n
1. the act of retaliating for wrongs or injury received; vengeance
2. something done as a means of vengeance
3. the desire to take vengeance or retaliate
4. a return match, regarded as a loser's opportunity to even the score

— vb
5. to inflict equivalent injury or damage for (injury received); retaliate in return for
6. to take vengeance for (oneself or another); avenge

[C14: from Old French revenger , from Late Latin revindicāre , from re- + vindicāre to vindicate ]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/revenge

JMO but just even though there are instances of Juggaloes inflicting revenge on their parents or assaulting and killing their sexual partners s it's a leap to assume that MW's alleged Juggalo friends killed Lisa for no reason except their subculture.



IDK... I feel horrible for MW's friends some of whom may be quite lovely people for all I know about them, suddenly suspected of being serial killers.

 

[iamnotagolem]

Revenge for the sake of revenge; there is no rhyme or reason to a counter-culture, that is why any counter-culture group is not mainstream. The thinking is outside of the standard of most society. Random acts of crime rather than random acts of kindness.

If you are aware of Capote's In Cold Blood; the killers did not know the family. The same stands for killers like Ted Bundy, Richard Ramirez and John Wayne Gacy; it is doing an action for the sake of doing it.

While Hickhock and Smith didn't know the Cutters, Floyd Wells told Hickhock that the Cutters had a safe with large amounts of money in it. There was a connection to the family.

If it turns out that PN (as an example) told MW about Lisa, then MW & Jersey took Lisa, then ok.

It keeps being repeated that Lisa was out on the front step w/her family a lot. Just b/c IDM saw them there, doesn't mean Jersey or MW or any Juggalo, since this is the Juggalo thread, ever saw Lisa outside w/her family.

I think it's a pretty big leap to assume that Juggalos saw her and decided to take her and kill her. We have nothing to indicate they were aware of her existence.

 

[Jacie Estes]

I had read online back early in this case - about MW and Jersey being Juggalo's. I know that MW had it on her FB page - and I believe there was a lot said about it there (RE: Jersey - but a lot of that info got changed at one point). It's been reported (don't have the link but I did read it somewhere legit) - as well as on FB the info that Dane is one, too.

Birds of a feather?

Also - just want to say - that although I agree that many so called 'juggalo's' are just being 'trendy' --- you have to consider the mental/psychological affect those lyrics would have on a trouble mind. Listen to something long enough - your mind will begin to process it differently. Just sayin'.

It is more about the mindset of the individual, who is a part of the culture, than just the culture being the catalyst. jersey has proven his mindset with his criminal record. We don't know what he has NOT been caught doing. jersey was in the neighborhood that night; he has to be factored into the situation. it is interesting that he was taken off the streets very quickly.

 

[Jacie Estes]

While Hickhock and Smith didn't know the Cutters, Floyd Wells told Hickhock that the Cutters had a safe with large amounts of money in it. There was a connection to the family.

If it turns out that PN (as an example) told MW about Lisa, then MW & Jersey took Lisa, then ok.

It keeps being repeated that Lisa was out on the front step w/her family a lot. Just b/c IDM saw them there, doesn't mean Jersey or MW or any Juggalo, since this is the Juggalo thread, ever saw Lisa outside w/her family.

I think it's a pretty big leap to assume that Juggalos saw her and decided to take her and kill her. We have nothing to indicate they were aware of her existence.

jersey is connected to the neighborhood; he was seen in the neighborhood that night. We don't have all of the facts in this case yet. There is not enough information to discount any theory including a criminal element [jeresy] with ties to a juggalo culture.

 

[hambirg]

It is more about the mindset of the individual, who is a part of the culture, than just the culture being the catalyst. jersey has proven his mindset with his criminal record. We don't know what he has NOT been caught doing. jersey was in the neighborhood that night; he has to be factored into the situation. it is interesting that he was taken off the streets very quickly.

BBM. . .

I think you just proved the point. Why does is matter that MW identified herself as a Juggalo on her FB page?

 

[Jacie Estes]

It is possible that some crazy psychopath belonging to an insane subculture killed Lisa for the thrill of the killing but if so I don't see what revenge has to do with it.


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/revenge

JMO but just even though there are instances of Juggaloes inflicting revenge on their parents or assaulting and killing their sexual partners s it's a leap to assume that MW's alleged Juggalo friends killed Lisa for no reason except their subculture.



IDK... I feel horrible for MW's friends some of whom may be quite lovely people for all I know about them, suddenly suspected of being serial killers.[/QUOTE]

Not all juggalos are criminals and being accused of being serial killers. They are a counterculture, as are many others. MW was associated with jersey, on several levels. Momma always says, be careful of the company you keep. My post was comparing countercultures NOT individuals. IMHO

 

[iamnotagolem]

I have no idea how involved MW is with the Juggalos. She could just think it's cool, she could be involved to the point of committing crimes.

I think of my SIL who is a "skater girl", wears skater clothes, wears Vans, had her wedding party wear Vans to the wedding, etc. She's never skated in her life. She just thinks it's "cool".

 

[Donjeta]

It is more about the mindset of the individual, who is a part of the culture, than just the culture being the catalyst. jersey has proven his mindset with his criminal record. We don't know what he has NOT been caught doing. jersey was in the neighborhood that night; he has to be factored into the situation. it is interesting that he was taken off the streets very quickly.

While he appears to have an interesting past I still haven't seen anything in his criminal record that proves he has the mindset of Ted Bundy, Gacy etc.

Respectfully, we don't know what anybody else has not been caught doing either.

 

[Jacie Estes]

BBM. . .

I think you just proved the point. Why does is matter that MW identified herself as a Juggalo on her FB page?

It is that she is part of a culture that attracts fringe elements. jersey is definitely a fringe element. jersey was in the neighborhood that night. MW does not describe herself as a republican, a methodist, a democrat or an aethiest. She aligns herself with a culture that has been documented in this thread. It does matter. IMHO

 

[iamnotagolem]

Does anyone know if there is a way on Facebook to go to ICPs page and look through their fans list? Or is the only way to find out if someone is a fan to go to their page and see if it's in their list of "interests"?

 

[hambirg]

It is that she is part of a culture that attracts fringe elements. jersey is definitely a fringe element. jersey was in the neighborhood that night. MW does not describe herself as a republican, a methodist, a democrat or an aethiest. She aligns herself with a culture that has been documented in this thread. It does matter. IMHO

She posts that she is a Juggalette on her FB page. Are there any pictures, MSM articles that support that? Does that mean that every one that posts on a social media sight claiming to be "gansta" is?

I just think that, yes, somebody that has psychological, homicidal tendencies might be drawn to certain types music, but it's not the music that causes that. Not everyone that likes a certain band is a certain way. Remember when everyone that liked Ozzy Osborne was a supposed sadist?

None of the statistics support the idea of a roving group of babykillers. Most people who would take a baby, especially for homicidal reasons, act alone.

 

[Donjeta]

I think some of it might be selective reporting.
If the media finds out that a murderer listened to rap with violent lyrics or heavy metal sung by masked monsters or music with messages on it if you listen to it backwards they make a big deal out of it but it's less likely that it gets any headlines whenever the murderer listens to Springsteen and Carrie Underwood.

 

[katydid23]

I think some of it might be selective reporting.
If the media finds out that a murderer listened to rap with violent lyrics or heavy metal sung by masked monsters or music with messages on it if you listen to it backwards they make a big deal out of it but it's less likely that it gets any headlines whenever the murderer listens to Springsteen and Carrie Underwood.

To me, it is not about violent lyrics ,per se. I love Eminem and he talked about the killer,Stan, who put his dead gf in his car trunk. But eminem, or Shady as his persona is called, WAS THE VICTIM OF STAN. Eminem was not making himself a serial killer.

So the difference between ICP and Eminem is that ICP takes on the persona of a serial killer. The fans of ICP take on the persona of BEING A SERIAL KILLER. When you sing along with ICP songs you imagine YOURSELF being a killer. You savor it and get turned on by it.

Did you see the lyrics I linked above? It is a gory love song about a teen who does a home invasion and kills the family next door. And they sing about killing the cat by snapping it's neck, and then hatcheting open the head of the young son and then slaughtering the mother and then the father, singing all the gruesome details.

So you cannot compare ICP music to other kinds of violence, imo. Because it is unique in it's stance. It makes the hero, the icon, a serial killer. And not like Dexter, who has the moral high ground. The Clown that is revered and cherished by jugallos has no moral high ground. He kills animals for fun, and innocents for sexual thrills.

I am NOT saying that jugallos killed baby Lisa. I am just pointing out that there is a jugallo connection to many of our open missing person cases so I think it is worth examining.

 

[Donjeta]

Luckily it looks like nobody was hatcheted in the Bradley/Irwin home since they didn't leave a gruesome scene but the neighbors should start locking their doors for sure.

Are there other baby abduction/murder/hatcheting cases in the KC area that we should sleuth for a Juggalo connection?

 

[hambirg]

To me, it is not about violent lyrics ,per se. I love Eminem and he talked about the killer,Stan, who put his dead gf in his car trunk. But eminem, or Shady as his persona is called, WAS THE VICTIM OF STAN. Eminem was not making himself a serial killer.

So the difference between ICP and Eminem is that ICP takes on the persona of a serial killer. The fans of ICP take on the persona of BEING A SERIAL KILLER. When you sing along with ICP songs you imagine YOURSELF being a killer. You savor it and get turned on by it.

Did you see the lyrics I linked above? It is a gory love song about a teen who does a home invasion and kills the family next door. And they sing about killing the cat by snapping it's neck, and then hatcheting open the head of the young son and then slaughtering the mother and then the father, singing all the gruesome details.

So you cannot compare ICP music to other kinds of violence, imo. Because it is unique in it's stance. It makes the hero, the icon, a serial killer. And not like Dexter, who has the moral high ground. The Clown that is revered and cherished by jugallos has no moral high ground. He kills animals for fun, and innocents for sexual thrills.

I am NOT saying that jugallos killed baby Lisa. I am just pointing out that there is a jugallo connection to many of our open missing person cases so I think it is worth examining.

But ICP's music is especially about morality. Granted some fans may not understand that, but it is THE central theme to their music.

The themes of God's presence and the final judgment of individuals are explored in multiple Insane Clown Posse songs. Throughout their career, the group has used parables set within the Dark Carnival mythology to warn of the ultimate consequences of immoral behavior. Their 2002 album The Wraith: Shangri-La, which ended the first set of Joker Card albums, explicitly revealed that the hidden message of ICP's music was always to follow God.. . .We just [...] want to see good people hopefully go to heaven, which we refer to as Shangri-La." Joseph Utsler explained in a 2002 interview with Craig Markley that "God is in your heart [...] In my definition, it doesn’t matter what creed, religion, or group you belong to. If you’re doing what’s right and are a good person, then you're right with God.