Just Patsy, only Patsy

[midwest mama]

Just throwing this out there... What if the murder and ALL the staging was Patsy?

If so, how can we account for JR's reports about Patsy coming to bed, etc? And if he was not involved, and ever thought for a minute...even if it was months down the road, that Patsy had killed JB, is it realistic to think he would have kept Patsy completely protected?

Help me to understand why one totally innocent parent who really believes the other one murdered their child could ever keep that secret. What would be the payoff for JR?

 

[TaylurRose02]

If so, how can we account for JR's reports about Patsy coming to bed, etc? And if he was not involved, and ever thought for a minute...even if it was months down the road, that Patsy had killed JB, is it realistic to think he would have kept Patsy completely protected?

Help me to understand why one totally innocent parent who really believes the other one murdered their child could ever keep that secret. What would be the payoff for JR?

I'm with you. I don't think JR killed her, but I think he was involved in the coverup. What I don't know is how. IMO, his behavior and interview answers the morning of the murder leads me to believe that he figured it out. Hence his change in behavior reported by Ardnt and his change in answers from "I locked all the doors" to "Well I probably didn't lock all the doors." From "It has to be an inside job" to spinning the intruder theory every way possible. Etc... Plus the way he reacted to JB's death in comparison to Beth's is night and day. He kept reminders of Beth everywhere and mourned her death for a long time. Yet, he wanted to forgive the murderer of his 6 year old and didn't even visit JB's grave on the birthday following her murder as reported by ST. Sounds fishy to me!

 

[GoBrewers]

He is way too intelligent to believe that. I might buy he was blackmailed into the help but Patsy still wouldnt have been alone, just protecting someone else imo.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I'm with you. I don't think JR killed her, but I think he was involved in the coverup. What I don't know is how. IMO, his behavior and interview answers the morning of the murder leads me to believe that he figured it out. Hence his change in behavior reported by Ardnt and his change in answers from "I locked all the doors" to "Well I probably didn't lock all the doors." From "It has to be an inside job" to spinning the intruder theory every way possible. Etc... Plus the way he reacted to JB's death in comparison to Beth's is night and day. He kept reminders of Beth everywhere and mourned her death for a long time. Yet, he wanted to forgive the murderer of his 6 year old and didn't even visit JB's grave on the birthday following her murder as reported by ST. Sounds fishy to me!

I have never not thought of that ransom note when I have heard the word "hence"
No matter the context.
I've actually eliminated it from my own vocabulary.

Yes, I know I'm weird




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[DeDee]

If so, how can we account for JR's reports about Patsy coming to bed, etc? And if he was not involved, and ever thought for a minute...even if it was months down the road, that Patsy had killed JB, is it realistic to think he would have kept Patsy completely protected?

Help me to understand why one totally innocent parent who really believes the other one murdered their child could ever keep that secret. What would be the payoff for JR?

Bear in mind that every day that Patsy Ramsey was living, she knew she was dying of cancer. Thoughts of her death and the various consequences of her death likely haunted her every waking moment. JR was dating Beth Holloway within 6 months of Patsy's death in 2006. PR knew he would quickly remarry when she died and some other woman would be raising Patsy's babies.

Then, bear in mind JR had lost his precious Beth. In that watershed event, he stopped loving, pretty much. He formed a protective barrier around his heart. The delightful JonBenét wasn't even able to break down that barrier.

Being a PDI, it took me a long time of careful consideration to conclude that JR began slowly putting the puzzle together the moment PR screamed "She's gone! They took her!" He was hoping and praying it was the Pugh's or someone on the inside. By midmorning, JR has figured out that his wife may have harmed his baby girl and he goes in search of her only it learn it is true.

In my theory, PR was seriously battling her PD at least for the last 2 - 6 months, if not longer. Perhaps JR was so busy being occupied with success that he did not anticipate/acknowledge the subtle changes in his wife's demeanor. I think Patsy was in a state of psychosis by Christmas. All of the thoughts and feelings that had been swirling in Patsy's imagination became real events on Christmas Night. Patsy ended her fear and her pain that night by, in her mind, believing she sent an angel to welcome her mother into heaven. "Wherever we go, we go together..." AH said JB and PR were "fused".

Perhaps in PRs mind, JR was showing favoritism toward JonBenét and she would not dare be replaced by a 6yo. Whatever the reason, John failed to realize the seriousness of his wife's condition, thus, did not protect his children from her. The guilt from the failure to protect his children could be what kept John by her side.

I also believe he felt guilt bc she held much bitterness/resentment over JR receiving special recognition for the success of AG that began as a family business in the garage. She mentions this in the '96 Christmas letter. Once, when it was about to go under, Don Paugh ran to the rescue with his wits and his money, to save the business. Interestingly, Patsy did not attend AGs Dec. 20 celebration luncheon for AGs billion dollar sales milestone.

If the above suppositions are accurate, then Patsy had jealousy both over John's financial success that ultimately only acknowledged his contribution, bitterness and resentment due to lack of her perceived deserved recognition.

Maybe PR felt neglected when JR could have done more while she was exposed to chemo trips to MA alone but he placed his business ahead of her needs. JR could have felt guilt over this.

And there's certainly the possibility of Patsy's gut-wrenching emotion of betrayal if she imagined a lover's relationship going on between JB and her husband. If so, maybe he was shameful and regretful.

ATT, I believe PR was abusing her daughter. However, there was a significant chance it could have been JR. If so, that could be a reason he protected PR.

Lastly, but very importantly, she carried a feeling of being omniscient due to her interpretation of God's healing power that demonstrates to me she knew she had planned, committed and got away with the perfect crime in the perfect town.

That's it. JR protected her bc of personal blame, shame and/or guilt. She was ill and JR suffered for not protecting his children from her. Or JR was guilty of the SA so he felt responsible for the death. And, also, maybe he expected PR to die soon and did not want Burke's mother dying in prison.

She warns him in the RN: "It's up to you now, John!" He chose to spend his fortune keeping them out of jail.

 

[gramcracker]

^^^ IMO those are excellent insights, and all are true. where I differ with some theories is in believing that those dynamics caused PR to premeditate the murder and plan it for the 26th. most holiday weeks are some kind of frantic for many families and this particular holiday week was more frantic than most for this family. I think there wouldn't have been even the most tenuous link to the family if it had been premeditated. MO is that what happened was an unpremeditated event that spiraled out of control, and that the totality of those prior/ongoing dynamics became the motivation and justification for everything which followed the blow to JR's head/PDI (or discovering a mortally wounded JB/BDI)

* an alternate term for AH's "fused" is "enmeshed"

 

[midwest mama]

^^This all sounds like the perfect answer to the perfect murder in the perfect town.

And if so, the only justice JB really has is that she truly was ushered into the arms of the Lord the moment that ligature was tightened enough to take away her last breath.:candle:

 

[DeDee]

I think the death was always planned for Christmas Night. It's likely one reason Patsy really did not want to go to Charlevoix. It's likely the reason the kids' luggage wasn't packed for the Disney Cruise. She knew they would not really be going.

The death of Little Miss Christmas happened on Christmas Night. Her headstone is inscribed with December 25, 1996. JR told LE he believed she died before midnight. The white burial dress was purchased in November. So were the Bloomies. The My Twinn doll Patsy ordered was later kept on display in Charlevoix. What sealed it for me was JonBenét's gold ID bracelet inscribed with the death date of Dec. 25.

 

[Linda7NJ]

^^This all sounds like the perfect answer to the perfect murder in the perfect town.



And if so, the only justice JB really has is that she truly was ushered into the arms of the Lord the moment that ligature was tightened enough to take away her last breath.:candle:

I wish I could believe that.
But I don't.
So, I feel no sense of comfort that she's in a better place or believe any measure of justice for JonBenet.

I so do appreciate all the people that have tried their best for her.

A little girl whose life was stolen from her by someone that wAs supposed to love and protect her.

IMO





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[Blue Bottle 01]

33:18 But the eyes of the Lord are on those who fear him, on those whose hope is in his unfailing love,

33:19 to deliver them from death ...

50:5 Gather to me my consecrated ones who made a covenant with me by sacrifice.

50:14 Sacrifice thank offerings to God, fulfill your vows to the Most High.

50:15 And call apon me in the day of trouble, I will deliver you and you will honor me.

103:17 But the loving kindness of God is from time indefinite ...

103:18 With those who keep his covenant, and remember to obey his precepts.

105:9 The covenant he made with Abraham, the oath he swore to Isaac.

109:27 Let them know that it is your hand, that you yourself have done it.

116:12 How can I repay the Lord for all his kindness to me?

116:17 I will sacrifice a thank offering to you.

118:15 Shouts of joy and victory resound in the tents of the righteous. The Lord's right hand has done mighty things.

118:16 The Lord's right hand is lifted high, the Lord's right hand has done mighty things.

118:24 I will not die but live.

118:24 This is the day the Lord has made.

118:27 With boughs in hand join the festival procession up to the horns of the alter.

119:62 At midnight I rise to give you thanks.

119:147 I rise before dawn and cry for help. I put my hope in your words.

 

[THE BUNK]

Just throwing this out there... What if the murder and ALL the staging was Patsy?

BB, in your scenario:

1. Does John have absolutely no knowledge of the crime or the cover up ever?

2.Or is he told later on about the crime and cover up by Patsy? Later

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

BB, in your scenario:

1. Does John have absolutely no knowledge of the crime or the cover up ever?

2.Or is he told later on about the crime and cover up by Patsy? Later

1. He does not understand what was done by Patsy.
2. No.

 

[DeDee]

1. He does not understand what was done by Patsy.
2. No.

He believes she did it though, right? How did he ever get over the shock of the prior sexual abuse of JB by PR? The violent killer of his precious little girl whom he could forgive.

Why couldn't he understand just as you and I have? John had to know she had become, how shall I say, moody. This psychotic explosion did not take him totally by surprise, did it? Or did he really not know her struggles at all?

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

He believes she did it though, right??

No.

How did he ever get over the shock of the prior sexual abuse of JB by PR? The violent killer of his precious little girl whom he could forgive.?

He thinks the intruder did that.

Why couldn't he understand just as you and I have? John had to know she had become, how shall I say, moody. This psychotic explosion did not take him totally by surprise, did it? Or did he really not know her struggles at all?

That has to do with his idea of Evil. He thinks he knows what Evil is and he has an abhorance of it. The idea that he lived with it, may have abetted it and may himself be Evil would destroy his self image.

His self delusion is better than going there no matter the transparent public displays of his delusion.

 

[THE BUNK]

You see, I might buy the idea that John doesn't know anything about the cover up and murder and is later told by Patsy (or he puts two and two together.)

Unfortunately, I can't buy that John has no idea that Patsy is guilty of the crime.

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

You see, I might buy the idea that John doesn't know anything about the cover up and murder and is later told by Patsy (or he puts two and two together.)

Unfortunately, I can't buy that John has no idea that Patsy is guilty of the crime.

There was no cover-up, no staging for police.

Patsy did it while in a dissociated state and was incapable of objective reflection.

I didn't say he had no idea, in fact I think he considered it (her guilt) and dismissed the idea.

 

[THE BUNK]

There was no cover-up, no staging for police.

That doesn't make sense considering the ransom note. Why would Patsy write the ransom not other than to stage.

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

That doesn't make sense considering the ransom note. Why would Patsy write the ransom not other than to stage.

She wrote it primarily for herself not for police investigtors. The reason it is so strange and seemingly incomprehensible is it is full of personal meaning, symbols and imagery that were part of her personal fantasy life. It had only to "fool" her. Any affect on the outside world was well down the priority list.

 

[elannia]

IMO I am going with steve thomas's theory. She at first said she put her in the red turtleneck then changed her story. I think she was awake when they returned home and she did have the pineapple and then something escalated between her and patsy in her bedroom. Also she asks about blood on the drapes. Why is that ? So I think it happened in her room and thats why the turtleneck was balled up in the bathroom. I am back and forth about john being involved. I think either patsy accidentally killed her then maybe woke john for his help? Or john figured it out after reading the RN but didnt say anything to her. I also think he went looking and he did find her at 11:00. Thats why linda ardnt said his attitude changed... he was trying to figure out what to do. I have so much to say and I just dont know where to begin. In my own opinion.

 

[Linda7NJ]

IMO I am going with steve thomas's theory. She at first said she put her in the red turtleneck then changed her story. I think she was awake when they returned home and she did have the pineapple and then something escalated between her and patsy in her bedroom. Also she asks about blood on the drapes. Why is that ? So I think it happened in her room and thats why the turtleneck was balled up in the bathroom. I am back and forth about john being involved. I think either patsy accidentally killed her then maybe woke john for his help? Or john figured it out after reading the RN but didnt say anything to her. I also think he went looking and he did find her at 11:00. Thats why linda ardnt said his attitude changed... he was trying to figure out what to do. I have so much to say and I just dont know where to begin. In my own opinion.

This is in my top two favorite theories...Especially, considering the rate at which children are abused and murdered over potty incidents.
I think she likely panicked and staged the elaborate scene.
I imagine her angry at John who simply scampered off to bed, leaving Patsy with a million things left still to do. Blamed him as the cause of loosing her temper. Narcissists never accept responsibility and always attempt to deflect the blame onto others.
Maybe John felt guilty knowing how stressed & overwhelmed Patsy was...

All IMO


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