Kaine wishes the MFH plot would have gone through

[cluciano63]

I'm not sure if the MFH is true, but I think a judge would have an obligation to allow Kaine to take the baby away if someone has reported to the police that they were asked to kill him. What I mean is, whether or not the report could be substantiated at that point, beyond there being one ( a report), he might still allow Kaine the baby and the RO as a precaution.

But if Kaine had turned up murdered, what does he think would have become of his daughter then? I understand his feeling guilty, but I don't think it would have helped her, if he was murdered, especially if Terri wasn't suspected.

 

[watchinginky]

I can attest that from personal experience. One can never imagine the pain of losing a child - it is unimaginable. In spite of receiving professional help, many of us are never able to move on.
I have said and done things since my son died which others do not understand. I don't expect them to. I give DY and KH credit for standing in front of cameras and talking about the case. I moved between bed and the couch for over a year.

Tiki.....God Bless You. :hug:

 

[tlcya]

MFH plot has been substantiated insomuchas LE finds the landscaper credible, however unsubstantiated insomuchas LE must not have any corroberating evidence with which to level criminal charges.

 

[ThoughtFox]

Where is the statement from LE that this transpired?

Why would the landscaper go through with a sting operation if it wasn't true? How would they have leaned on him to make him wear a wire if it wasn't true?

I believe there is evidence - the landscaper nor Terri have refuted any of this. Ask yourself why - I believe it is because there are real text messages with them talking about it. Incontrovertible evidence.

LE is not going to come out and tell us everything they have and everything they are investigating. We only have this much because there is a custody question with Terri's baby and divorce proceedings. Otherwise we would be in the dark. But LE doesn't owe us anything - they have enough to do in this case.

 

[Day Dreamer]

You're thinking this out in a rational manner. I suspect that Terri and rational don't equate. Clearly if what has been reported is indeed true who the HELL tries to kill their husband because they cheated on you? And hurt you emotionally by cheating? And it's also important to note that the alleged affair by Kaine is unsubstantiated to date. So again if what is reported to be true then Terri really DIDN'T have any legitimate (at least in HER mind) reason to have him killed. Although cheating on your spouse is morally reprehensible it's clearly no justification for death/murder.

Sometimes as rational normal human beings we tend to want to know the WHY factor. In this case, in my opinion Terri simple loathed Kaine and wanted him dead, hurt and completely destroyed. And in her mind at least she felt completely justified in attaining that goal by any and all means. She accomplished her goal at least in destroying Kaine. But also destroyed herself in the process.

ADDED: Also in light of the comments by Desiree that it was TERRI who broke up her marriage to Kaine- Terri really DOESN'T even have a leg to stand on regarding feeling "hurt" by an affair. If she could be woman enough to be an adulteress with a married man then she should be woman enough to deal when the tables are turned.

I completely agree!! I never can quite get over how people that are perfectly willing to have an affair and destroy a marriage are so applaud when their spouse turns around and cheats on them. HELLO? Is anyone home?? If you are low enough to cheat w/ a married person you deserve what you get.

 

[Day Dreamer]

If the MFH plot was BS, then why the HECK would they have taken a 19 month old baby girl away from her biological mom????

Exactly!!! If I were falsely accused of trying to hire someone to murder my spouse I would be screaming and protesting my innocence from the tops of the buildings. I would not simply accept it, move out of my home, and lose custody of my baby if I were innocent. Just saying ....

 

[SmoothOperator]

SurfieTX Originally Posted
{Respectfully snipped}
I wonder why he believes that if he would have died, Kyron would still be here?
__________________

I think we can only speculate as to why we think he believes such. It's IMO the reason is that he feels as though this all was about Kaine all along, as in the motive is the same for both the MFH plot and the disappearance of Kyron. And that motive is for Terri to exert revenge on Kaine, to make him pay, to make him suffer for what ever in Terri's head made her have such anger, resentment and bitterness that is seemingly so obvious that she had for Kaine.

I feel as though the MFH plot she possibly thought she'd just completely take Kaines life as revenge and get him out of her life forever for "hurting" her and then for whatever reasons (i.e. either failing to find someone to do it, changing her mind, or IMO reassessing the situation and deciding much better of a plan to hurt Kaine the absolute deepest was to take his only son from him forever).

Whatever the reasons and whatever the plans I do think that Kaine definitely realizes that it is he who was the sole target for Terri's need for revenge and he realizes that his innocent son paid that ultimate price with his life instead of Kaine..

IMO.. MOO..and all that stuff..

ETA~ I must say probably for the first time since this nightmare has begun I truly feel as tho Kaine is letting down that huge wall that he's had up. The one, that for me, caused me to find his demeanors, actions, and words to be so very flat and odd. I think now we are really beginning to se the real pain that this poor man is truly suffering within himself.. IMO..MOO

 

[Tiki]

I completely agree!! I never can quite get over how people that are perfectly willing to have an affair and destroy a marriage are so applaud when their spouse turns around and cheats on them. HELLO? Is anyone home?? If you are low enough to cheat w/ a married person you deserve what you get.

Right. And I know someone who continually suspects her husband of cheating because when when they began seeing each other, they were both married to other people and both knew it! So she doesn't trust him to be faithful to her.
:waitasec:



.

 

[Skully]

Psychotic acts are not always a reaction to something done to the perpetrator of the evil. Kaine didn't necessarily have to do anything to TH to provoke her. Do you think Kyron could have done something that made her snatch him or worse? Sometimes evil acts are committed simply because the person who does them is plain evil.

I don't think anyone did anything to deserve any of this or provoke it, just wondering what is going though her mind. Sometimes I just can't wrap my mind around what people do, ya know?

 

[debs]

Why would the landscaper go through with a sting operation if it wasn't true? How would they have leaned on him to make him wear a wire if it wasn't true?

I believe there is evidence - the landscaper nor Terri have refuted any of this. Ask yourself why - I believe it is because there are real text messages with them talking about it. Incontrovertible evidence.

LE is not going to come out and tell us everything they have and everything they are investigating. We only have this much because there is a custody question with Terri's baby and divorce proceedings. Otherwise we would be in the dark. But LE doesn't owe us anything - they have enough to do in this case.

i can't speak to why a landscaper would participate in a sting operation. I only know that operation failed. I only know nothing has yet come from that sting operation, though I wonder if the Grand Jury is sitting to discuss whether there is enough to charge Terri for a crime regarding a MFH plot in the past. What I do know is that at this point, LE has said nothing regarding a MFH, has not indicated that Terri is even implicated in one. What they may have said to Kaine to alarm him enough to explain to the judge that he has reason to believe Terri wanted to hire someone is not the same as saying she DID hire someone. And I am not suggesting he or his lawyer lied to a judge to get a restraining order. Having reason to believe something is enough in most instances to get a restraining order. That is not the same as suggesting there was proof of it, nor that there will be proof in order to keep the restraining order in place once it's served its purpose.

As to why Terri hasn't spoken of it, or why the landscaper hasn't spoken of it, I cannot guess. I imagine the landscaper is under orders to not speak, since he was in fact involved in a police sting which was meant to garner evidence. Legally it is smarter to keep their mouth shut. The law must prove it; Terri is not required to explain herself to the public. Sure, everyone would like her to defend herself "if she's innocent" but not speaking is not proof of guilt.

And I for one expect that should I ever find myself in such a situation, someone...........even if it is one lone person out there......would defend the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. I have seen nothing of any sort which points to proof. I've only seen gossip and innuendo and suggestions that there MIGHT be something which will MAYBE prove Terri was on some sort of crime spree. As of this moment, I have not seen it.

For information:
"The Presumption" states:

1. With respect to the critical facts of the case - whether the crime charged was committed and whether the defendant was the person who committed the crime - the state has the entire burden of proof.
2. With respect to the critical facts of the case, the defendant does not have any burden of proof whatsoever. The defendant does not have to testify, call witnesses or present any other evidence, and if the defendant elects not to testify or present evidence, this decision cannot be used against them.
3. The jury or judge is not to draw any negative inferences from the fact the defendant has been charged with a crime and is present in court and represented by an attorney. They must decide the case solely on evidence presented during the trial.

 

[21merc7]

^^^Great post debs. FYI, I think the LS most likely very impeachable, and in the long run will be another red herring. That is just moo.

Back on topic, the article with TH and DY was lacking in discretion and unnecessary.

 

[Chablis]

i can't speak to why a landscaper would participate in a sting operation. I only know that operation failed. I only know nothing has yet come from that sting operation, though I wonder if the Grand Jury is sitting to discuss whether there is enough to charge Terri for a crime regarding a MFH plot in the past. What I do know is that at this point, LE has said nothing regarding a MFH, has not indicated that Terri is even implicated in one. What they may have said to Kaine to alarm him enough to explain to the judge that he has reason to believe Terri wanted to hire someone is not the same as saying she DID hire someone. And I am not suggesting he or his lawyer lied to a judge to get a restraining order. Having reason to believe something is enough in most instances to get a restraining order. That is not the same as suggesting there was proof of it, nor that there will be proof in order to keep the restraining order in place once it's served its purpose.

As to why Terri hasn't spoken of it, or why the landscaper hasn't spoken of it, I cannot guess. I imagine the landscaper is under orders to not speak, since he was in fact involved in a police sting which was meant to garner evidence. Legally it is smarter to keep their mouth shut. The law must prove it; Terri is not required to explain herself to the public. Sure, everyone would like her to defend herself "if she's innocent" but not speaking is not proof of guilt.

And I for one expect that should I ever find myself in such a situation, someone...........even if it is one lone person out there......would defend the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. I have seen nothing of any sort which points to proof. I've only seen gossip and innuendo and suggestions that there MIGHT be something which will MAYBE prove Terri was on some sort of crime spree. As of this moment, I have not seen it.

For information:
"The Presumption" states:

1. With respect to the critical facts of the case - whether the crime charged was committed and whether the defendant was the person who committed the crime - the state has the entire burden of proof.
2. With respect to the critical facts of the case, the defendant does not have any burden of proof whatsoever. The defendant does not have to testify, call witnesses or present any other evidence, and if the defendant elects not to testify or present evidence, this decision cannot be used against them.
3. The jury or judge is not to draw any negative inferences from the fact the defendant has been charged with a crime and is present in court and represented by an attorney. They must decide the case solely on evidence presented during the trial.

Wasn't the operation started AFTER Kyron went missing? They jumped the gun on it, because at this time, like Terri wasn't going to be wary of the timing in all this? She isnt stupid.

 

[nursebeeme]

Via court documents:
The landscaper received similar sexts from TMH (similar to those she sent to MC)

What Kaine states in court documents:
TMH was trying to kill him; probable cause came from what he states LE told him...just prior to him having 15 minutes to pack his stuff and move out of the family home

Sting:
happened right around the time of him moving out, receiving that information and moving out.

Sting involves Landscaper TMH tried to hire:
it was leaked and not confirmed
911 calls


-------------
okay.. so say the sting did happen. They would need proof to have this occur. Do you think if Tom, Dick, or Harry came in off the street and said 'hey TMH tried to hire me to kill her husband 6 mo ago" they would go off on a whim and orchestrate a sting? Various professionals (discussed here in some of the threads) have stated that LE most likely interviewed him, reinterviewed him, took his evidence (texts, emails, etc) and most likely did a LDT before they would ever sink the money and time into an operation like this. I tend to agree.
-----------

We do not have much to go on in this case coming directly from the mouth of LE. They have repeatedly stated that making any statements could damage their case. On their website they have no comment on what the bio parents are saying but do not refute it. They have said this is an isolated incident and that parents in the school/area need not be worried. They have not named a suspect in words... but how about the flier they put out to school parents with TMH's picture on it. Do pictures count like words? If this were an RSO or a stranger preying on kids within the walls of the school why not show a picture of the hallway? Or pictures that others had taken that morning showing the hallway?
--------------

IMHOO the sting wasn't productive because Kaine had already left Terri when it happened and her guard was up. I think she knew what was going down. She was not caught off guard in the slightest. Look at her statements to news crews right before the papers were served to her! ((and note that Kaine was gone with her daughter and the 911 calls and sting already took place when she made this statement))

this is all moo...

 

[grandmaj]

This case is just as with all of the other cases we sleuth here at WS. We have to wait for the trial and evidence to be presented and the crimes to be tried before we can say with certainty.

There is however this little issue of sleuthing in which we take MSM accounts about the parties involved, and we make our own personal decisions about whether we feel it is credible or not.

I use the Haleigh Cummings case as an example. There is no tried and proven in court evidence, to prove any one of the parties involved did anything. But there are strong personal convictions about who is involved in her disappearance, based on their alleged activities and actions over the course of time.

I liken this case to that one because of the silence of LE unlike in the Caylee case. PC said very little to confirm anything, and so far LE here have said little about the investigation.

It doesn't mean these matters as alleged haven't happened. It just means they haven't been tried or met the burden of proof in a court of law.

In that WS isn't a court of law, and we have established criteria here to be followed, we discuss information from MSM as it occurs. We then use it to form our own opinions based on our own reasoning and life experiences. This forum is no different than any other on Websleuths.

Carry on peeps.

 

[Mamietwo]

He must feel like her motive is to hurt him (Kaine) and that since she couldn't kill him - she would hurt him in some other way.

Not that she is really out to hurt Kyron - but it's her twisted way of hurting him.

I agree. A mafia move.

 

[Donjeta]

i can't speak to why a landscaper would participate in a sting operation. I only know that operation failed. I only know nothing has yet come from that sting operation, though I wonder if the Grand Jury is sitting to discuss whether there is enough to charge Terri for a crime regarding a MFH plot in the past. What I do know is that at this point, LE has said nothing regarding a MFH, has not indicated that Terri is even implicated in one. What they may have said to Kaine to alarm him enough to explain to the judge that he has reason to believe Terri wanted to hire someone is not the same as saying she DID hire someone. And I am not suggesting he or his lawyer lied to a judge to get a restraining order. Having reason to believe something is enough in most instances to get a restraining order. That is not the same as suggesting there was proof of it, nor that there will be proof in order to keep the restraining order in place once it's served its purpose.

As to why Terri hasn't spoken of it, or why the landscaper hasn't spoken of it, I cannot guess. I imagine the landscaper is under orders to not speak, since he was in fact involved in a police sting which was meant to garner evidence. Legally it is smarter to keep their mouth shut. The law must prove it; Terri is not required to explain herself to the public. Sure, everyone would like her to defend herself "if she's innocent" but not speaking is not proof of guilt.

And I for one expect that should I ever find myself in such a situation, someone...........even if it is one lone person out there......would defend the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. I have seen nothing of any sort which points to proof. I've only seen gossip and innuendo and suggestions that there MIGHT be something which will MAYBE prove Terri was on some sort of crime spree. As of this moment, I have not seen it.

For information:
"The Presumption" states:

1. With respect to the critical facts of the case - whether the crime charged was committed and whether the defendant was the person who committed the crime - the state has the entire burden of proof.
2. With respect to the critical facts of the case, the defendant does not have any burden of proof whatsoever. The defendant does not have to testify, call witnesses or present any other evidence, and if the defendant elects not to testify or present evidence, this decision cannot be used against them.
3. The jury or judge is not to draw any negative inferences from the fact the defendant has been charged with a crime and is present in court and represented by an attorney. They must decide the case solely on evidence presented during the trial.

Based on that standard of evidence we must assume that nobody did anything to Kyron as far as we are concerned because everybody in the whole wide world is presumed equally innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. I don't think we'll see what proof and evidence LE has until they're ready to for an arrest and a trial, whether it's against Terri or somebody else, so the speculative stuff and all the maybe's are all there is going to be for us to discuss up until then. Maybe there is little point in having threads for unsolved cases at all and it would be more sensible to just talk about the cases that had the proof and the conviction already.

 

[evelyn24]

Wasn't the operation started AFTER Kyron went missing? They jumped the gun on it, because at this time, like Terri wasn't going to be wary of the timing in all this? She isnt stupid.

Yes, it was.

 

[nursebeeme]

Just as with all of the other cases. We have to wait for the trial and evidence to be presented and the crimes to be tried before we can say with certainty.

There is however this little issue of sleuthing in which we take MSM accounts about the parties involved and we make our own personal decisions about whether we feel it is credible or not.

I use the Haleigh Cummings case as an example. There is no tried and proven in court evidence, to prove any one of the parties involved did anything. But there are strong personal convictions about who is involved in her disappearance based on their alleged activities and actions over the course of time.

I liken this case to that one because of the silence of LE unlike in the Caylee case. PC said very little to confirm anything, and so far LE here have said little about the investigation.

It doesn't mean these matters as alleged haven't happened. It just means they haven't been tried or met the burden of proof in a court of law.

In that WS isn't a court of law, and we have established criteria here to be followed, we discuss information from MSM as it occurs and use it to form our own opinions based on our own reasoning. This forum is no different than any other on Websleuths.

Carry on peeps.

thank you for this... if all we are to go on is LE statements we would not be discussing a thing... except that

1) have you seen tmh around the school on the morning that kyron vanished

2) this is an isolated incident and no one else needs to be concerned about their children

 

[Kat]

Kaine Horman: I feel responsible. I feel guilty. It’s my job to protect him, it’s my job to be there for him. I was there for him and someone got past and got him on my watch. I’m very upset about it, I’m very emotional about it. It’s not right. It shouldn’t have happened. We all trusted her. I feel partly responsible.

I in a weird way, I almost wish that her plot that she originally put in place [allegedly, to hire a landscaper to kill Kaine] would have gone through, because he would still be here. So I live with that guilt every day, and you know what, I turn it around, and I [make] it into something positive to go help find him. … I’m not saying I feel directly responsible for it, but I feel really guilty about it. And I wish there was anything I could do to change places with him in any way, shape or form. My life to get him back, it doesn’t matter. I would do anything, I would give anything, and I always would. Up to this point I have always been there in that capacity. Anything bad that happens to him, I wish I could shoulder it for him, [that] I could take it away from him. I wish it would come to me instead of him. It just didn’t go that way this time, and I really wish it would have.

http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/07/29/kyron-horman-update-kaines-feelings-about-decision-to-marry-stepmom/

I wonder why he believes that if he would have died, Kyron would still be here?

There's nothing that I can say in response to Kaine's suffering except I'm so sorry that his son is gone and hasn't as of yet been found.

I'm not reading anything into his statements other than his soul is an open wound right now. That he feels guilt as a Father because he is second guessing himself right now---if I could have, if I would have---I can imagine he might be trying to bargain with God also. If you bring him back---I will.....

I can't bear to watch this process with Kaine and Desiree. So often we see parents of missing children that either don't speak to us through the media, or they do their best to hide the raw pain they are going through in interviews.

But these two are in so much pain that it's like they are holding their hearts out in the palm of their hands and saying to us---see, I am destroyed, I am wounded.

God Bless them both. Bless them with just a moment of comfort please?

All JMHO :cry:

 

[cluciano63]

I don't understand why Kaine would say he wishes the MFH plot had been successful if he is so insistent that Kyron is alive and will be coming home soon...that makes no sense at all to me...