Kaine wishes the MFH plot would have gone through

[LadyL]

Many of you don't know this but I work in the funeral profession. Kaine's reaction is very normal when a child is lost or dies. I hear similar comments quite often. "Why didn't God take me and allow him/her to live". Similar statements. Kaine is not thinking about how life would be for Kyron if he wasn't there. He is feeling guilt and pain. He is in a sense grieving for what he fears has happened. It is a helplessness that he couldn't do anything about. And I'm pleased to hear he and Desiree have sought professional help.

Agreed. As a mother of a deceased child, I can testify that the survivor's guilt is brutal. I can also say that the added stress of outside criticism literally brought me to my knees on at least two occasions. Society often bandies the word 'devastation' about and I think the word has lost its power. It's my opinion that Kaine & Desiree & Tony are devastated in the true meaning of the word and barely able to walk somedays. This is what it does to a person - the tragedy combined with criticism is unbearable - it takes every single miniscule ounce of strength to function at a basic level and Kaine has to function beyond that as he has Baby K to provide and care for.

 

[SmoothOperator]

i can't speak to why a landscaper would participate in a sting operation. I only know that operation failed. I only know nothing has yet come from that sting operation, though I wonder if the Grand Jury is sitting to discuss whether there is enough to charge Terri for a crime regarding a MFH plot in the past. What I do know is that at this point, LE has said nothing regarding a MFH, has not indicated that Terri is even implicated in one. What they may have said to Kaine to alarm him enough to explain to the judge that he has reason to believe Terri wanted to hire someone is not the same as saying she DID hire someone. And I am not suggesting he or his lawyer lied to a judge to get a restraining order. Having reason to believe something is enough in most instances to get a restraining order. That is not the same as suggesting there was proof of it, nor that there will be proof in order to keep the restraining order in place once it's served its purpose.

As to why Terri hasn't spoken of it, or why the landscaper hasn't spoken of it, I cannot guess. I imagine the landscaper is under orders to not speak, since he was in fact involved in a police sting which was meant to garner evidence. Legally it is smarter to keep their mouth shut. The law must prove it; Terri is not required to explain herself to the public. Sure, everyone would like her to defend herself "if she's innocent" but not speaking is not proof of guilt.

And I for one expect that should I ever find myself in such a situation, someone...........even if it is one lone person out there......would defend the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. I have seen nothing of any sort which points to proof. I've only seen gossip and innuendo and suggestions that there MIGHT be something which will MAYBE prove Terri was on some sort of crime spree. As of this moment, I have not seen it.

For information:
"The Presumption" states:

1. With respect to the critical facts of the case - whether the crime charged was committed and whether the defendant was the person who committed the crime - the state has the entire burden of proof.
2. With respect to the critical facts of the case, the defendant does not have any burden of proof whatsoever. The defendant does not have to testify, call witnesses or present any other evidence, and if the defendant elects not to testify or present evidence, this decision cannot be used against them.
3. The jury or judge is not to draw any negative inferences from the fact the defendant has been charged with a crime and is present in court and represented by an attorney. They must decide the case solely on evidence presented during the trial.

Yep! You're Right! It is solely the states burden to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt and that is why you will not see nor hear any further from LE about the MFH plot nor anything of any "IMPORTANCE" About Kyron's disappearance, nor would we have "known" what little that we do know of[from LE] about the fact that there was indeed a MFH plot had there not been a need to put an order of protection MOST IMPORTANTLY for baby K.

(There are many that acknowledge what is in black and white per LE to Atty Rackner as FACT, and beyond all that disagree, just leave it at agree to disagree.) IT is what IT is, IT is a major felony crime, and IT is called conspiracy to solicit murder. And yes LE will have all their ducks in a row when they proceed to try Terri for Conspiracy to solicit murder and until then they owe none of us[public or media] one ounce of proof or even acknowledging any further about such..

 

[LadyL]

Well it makes sense to me.

Kaine is murdered = TH receives the life insurance and benefits from intel (which are pretty good I imagine)

Kyron = he is returned to DY

TH - is left with a boatload of money, baby K, and she can go on do all the sexting she wants. She can also have all the freedom to meet up with men.

Just MOOO

Mel

and a house, a mustang, a truck ...

ITA.

 

[Chablis]

I have not seen one thing to indicate KAine is controlling, I really haven't.

And the woman he left a pregnant woman for, turned out in the end to be more evil and sinister than anyone could imagine, shes lying, she wanted Kaine dead, the guilt he will have forever, sucks, but thats karma, I mean its sad, but no one deserves to have a child gone and a wife being quiet, knowing she wanted you dead. Talk about a reality check. Whatever Kaine has ever done, he does not deserve this.

 

[ami]

Respectfully BBM

That's the problem, she is not blabbing. She won't offer up anything.

I disagree - she's got a big mouth; she just hasn't spoken specifically about Kyron yet (as far as we know). She blabbed about her LDTs, her sex fantasies, the RO, possibly her criminal attorney fees and allegedly her desire to see her husband murdered. I don't blame LE for thinking that given enough time, isolation and opportunity, she'll blab out a clue.

 

[LadyL]

first he didn`t speak enough; then he didn`t show enough emotion; then he didn`t know enough about what was going on in his son & spouse`s lives; then he started talking & he was revealing too much; then he had too many contradictions; oh but wait for it ... now that he`s almost completely broken down, let`s kick him some more & say his guilt is deserved or fake or too much or not enough or whatever

guy can`t win

it doesn't matter if he had an affair
it doesn't matter if he ignored TH
it doesn't matter if he was a workoholic
it doesn't matter if he forgot appointments
it doesn't matter if he hogged the remote
it doesn't matter if he left the toilet seat up

it just doesn`t matter because none of it, none of it means he deserves to have his son disappear and then be crucified by people in glass houses

ETA: I hope that doesn`t seem rude - I don`t mean it to be - everyone here has well-thought out posts & I value each of them

 

[Pondering Mind]

I think her motive runs much deeper than money.

IMO

You know, I do too...and I have a sinking feeling that IF we ever find out what her true motive was/is, we may wish we hadn't. JMO, but TH scares me...I know we have pitifully few facts in this case, but what I sense, feel, opine, speculate, etc re: TH scares the chit out of me for so many reasons . I can't really put my finger on any one thing in particular, she just really, really gives me the heebie jeebies, IDK..just such a sense of foreboding...ALL based on MOO...

 

[Kat]

first he didn`t speak enough; then he didn`t show enough emotion; then he didn`t know enough about what was going on in his son & spouse`s lives; then he started talking & he was revealing too much; then he had too many contradictions; oh but wait for it ... now that he`s almost completely broken down, let`s kick him some more & say his guilt is deserved or fake or too much or not enough or whatever

guy can`t win

it doesn't matter if he had an affair
it doesn't matter if he ignored TH
it doesn't matter if he was a workoholic
it doesn't matter if he forgot appointments
it doesn't matter if he hogged the remote
it doesn't matter if he left the toilet seat up

it just doesn`t matter because none of it, none of it means he deserves to have his son disappear and then be crucified by people in glass houses

ETA: I hope that doesn`t seem rude - I don`t mean it to be - everyone here has well-thought out posts & I value each of them

:hug: LadyL, thank you for not only saying that but for sharing how you have survived and continue to survive what is unthinkable and terrifying for any of us here. Losing a child.

 

[butwhatif?]

You shouldn't assume that people who sympathize with Kaine automatically give him gold stars as a father or a husband. He was a cheater, too. He knows he made some horrible choices in life that he will never be able to forget about again.

But he wasn't the one who did something with Kyron. He wasn't the last person in the family to see Kyron alive. That would be someone else.

I think people should cut him a little slack, as they would any other grieving parent of a missing child. Whether any of us like him as a person, he's a victim in this too.

Isn't that basically what I said? :waitasec:

I absolutely feel for the pain and anguish the man is going through- no doubt about it.
I just can't ignore those things that could have pushed an already unstable woman over the edge.
And to clarify- no matter what real or imagined misdeeds Kaine has done in the past- nothing warrants or excuses that kind of retaliation by TH.

Based on Kaines statements, I get the feeling that he was in some sort of denial about her mental health. (JMO)

Who knows...maybe TH did this in the haze of mental illness and self-medicating in an effort to force him to feel the pain and suffering that she felt was being ignored by him....and it just went too far.

Not rational at all....And still no excuses for it....I'm just looking for the 'why'. And it looks like Kaine is too.

We still don't know for sure if she hid her illness or he was sweeping it under the rug, hoping it would resolve itself, or if he felt she was just 'putting it on'.
To me that matters, and is a very important factor in regards to this case .(The same way we wonder how mothers can leave their children with men who have a history of violence, SA, addiction or mental illness).

I do wish we could hear more from Terri to get the other side of the story.
And I also wish that none of them were living this nightmare right now.
JMO

 

[Calliope]

Many of you don't know this but I work in the funeral profession. Kaine's reaction is very normal when a child is lost or dies. I hear similar comments quite often. "Why didn't God take me and allow him/her to live". Similar statements. Kaine is not thinking about how life would be for Kyron if he wasn't there. He is feeling guilt and pain. He is in a sense grieving for what he fears has happened. It is a helplessness that he couldn't do anything about. And I'm pleased to hear he and Desiree have sought professional help.

Bargaining. One of the stages of grief.

 

[Pondering Mind]

I agree about most of this being based on emotions rather than logic.

Right now, I'm glad that he has finally said he feels guilty- as most parents would. It was bothering me that he hadn't said something along those lines, because it's such a normal response, even when you've done nothing to contribute to the loss.

When I look at the totality of the situation it's hard for me personally to ignore the fact that he cheated on his pregnant wife, married the other woman, ignored a whole bunch of red flags and doesn't seem to know a whole lot about who TH was and what she did. And that he downplays his own faults, while parading TH's to every media outlet he can.

I think the reason this bothers me the most is because his statements about TH are likely to inflame her, rather than getting her to fess up, if she does indeed know where Kyron is.

I do feel terrible for him that he has no idea whether his son is alive or dead, or where he is. It's the ultimate nightmare of any parent, and I sympathize with him greatly on that level.

But I still keep thinking that he's far from Mr Perfect, and having a missing child doesn't make him so. I can sympathize with his loss, just not his overall actions, IYKWIM.
JMO

butwhatif, see for me, I don't feel like I'm ignoring Kaines' faults or what I perceive as his faults anyway..I'm just not concerned with any character flaws he may or may not have..nor do I care that I find his demeanor a little cool at times UNLESS any of those things played a part in Kyrons disappearance. IF one believes him a POI, I can understand those things being pointed out..as they are done with TH..I've read some quite unflattering things said on the net about KH and to be honest I also believe some to be true, but since it doesn't appear that LE has focused on him in any way, it makes me feel yucky to even think about hinting at any of that carp. Kinda like I'd be pointlessly victimizing a victim ....does any of that make a lick of sense?

I also wonder how much of what DY and KH say during clips and interviews is what LE wants out there, but can't say.. to put pressure on TH, but gets it out through them. IDK, just a thought..

One thing for sure.. DY and KH have shown much more restraint in what they gave said and done than I would ever be able to..THAT'S A FACT! lol

BTW~It sure is awesome to 'see' you around my friend! :blowkiss:

 

[SmoothOperator]

I guess I don't see how a child is better off with his father having been murdered as the other option. I could see if he expressed regret for not reading the signs better, for not being a more attentive father and husband so that he'd be on track with the signs of a crazed wife (my words but the intent of all of Kaine's words of late are to paint a picture of a crazed woman). I am merely wondering how being dead would be better for Kyron if Kyron were still at home.

He would NOT have been "at home" with The so called "crazed wife" but would HAVE been "at home" with his momma, Desiree.

I see where it serves no one, especially not Kyron, when someone who is not responsible or even suspiscion from LE is on, Kyron's father, who so obviously is a very broken man (as some say too little too late to save Kyron, but hindsight is always 20/20) and far be it from another flawed human being such as I to in any way pass judgement or make callous and snarky remarks at every single move this man makes.

Kaine is a victim. A man who has lost his son forever(it very much seems) and no matter what ppls opinion of how this man lived his life, he in no way imaginable ever deserves what he is going thru. The constant negative remarks for every move this man makes or does NOT make is reprehensible...
I'd imagine if it were any one of our lives under the microscope, NOT one of us would be un-flawed[flawless], decisions that we made that now looking back we realize were NOT the best, and be in the midst of the most traumatic of events anyone could ever imagine being in. I would hope that people had compassion and care rather than hate and anger as so many seem to have for Kaine Horman, who is a victim, a victim of Terri.

 

[Calliope]

butwhatif, see for me, I don't feel like I'm ignoring Kaines' faults or what I perceive as his faults anyway..I'm just not concerned with any character flaws he may or may not have..nor do I care that I find his demeanor a little cool at times UNLESS any of those things played a part in Kyrons disappearance. IF one believes him a POI, I can understand those things being pointed out..as they are done with TH..I've read some quite unflattering things said on the net about KH and to be honest I also believe some to be true, but since it doesn't appear that LE has focused on him in any way, it makes me feel yucky to even think about hinting at any of that carp. Kinda like I'd be pointlessly victimizing a victim ....does any of that make a lick of sense?

<respectfully snipped>

Yes, it does.

Unless Terri is a true, honest-to-God sociopath, which I personally don't believe, then if she did something to Kyron there has to be a motive. If she is as mentally and emotionally fragile as they seem to believe, then Kaine's apparent detachment may have been the catalyst in her mind for whatever she did (or attempted, if the MFH plot is true). That is not to say Kaine is responsible for her actions or that he deserved whatever she may have done to Kyron. I'm just saying that I don't think family dynamics should be ignored, because I do believe if Terri is guilty it played a major role in this case.

My 'feel' for Terri is that she is naive, submissive, emotionally immature, and very needy and eager to please and be accepted, even (as some have pointed out) going as far as to mold her behavior and reactions to match those around her. She clearly displays a lack of judgement in what is socially acceptable behavior (and apparently is clueless as to why others would think her behavior is innappropriate). Kaine appears to be very unemotional, logical and structured and detached. I see two totally opposite personalities, and one needing far more than the other is willing or able to give. I can see where (in her mind) things became intolerable and came to a head, so to speak.

I don't think considering this dynamic is bashing Kaine or victimizing him. It simply helps understand Terri's mindset. A little bit, anyway. Understanding that, while not defending her beliefs or actions, could lead to Kyron.

She no doubt knew Kaine wasn't the gushing emotional type when they met; maybe she was needy enough that this type of personality actually appealed to her. She wanted someone more dominant and in control, perhaps subconsciously so, in order to balance her out. At the same time, maybe Kaine wanted someone less sure of themselves who wouldn't challenge him.

I can see where these two personalities would eventually clash, but that the more detached and less emotional/more logical one would have an advantage in the relationship. And that the more emotional, immature one would feel increasingly desperate for attention. And, if we're to believe what Kaine and Desiree say, that desperation finally came out in the worst possible way.

Hope that made sense.

 

[Zoe Bogart]

Snipped by me...

Because if he was dead, I'm sure he believes Kyron would've gone to live with Desiree.

Yes, that's what I believe he means, too. If the biological father is dead, his son would go to live with his biological mother, or at least other family members, because Terri isn't his legal guardian.

The biological parents are showing lots of guilt, which is normal in this case. Blaming themselves. Really, really sad. Especially sad for Kyron who was put into this situation. Sad indeed.

 

[Zoe Bogart]

Maybe he thought "if it was the choice between him dying or me dying I would rather it was me"
Of course both his children would be worse off with their father murdered but many parents have expressed the above thought at some point when something bad happens to their child.

You're right, and we both know well one father in particular who expressed this very same sentiment and it has been used to indicate he's guilty .... of something.

So true, but the other father has done many, many things to make him appear less innocent, shall we say? It's not just the words, but the actions that make the statement sincere. See what I mean?

 

[SmoothOperator]

Originally Posted by debs
{Respectfully snipped}
i can't speak to why a landscaper would participate in a sting operation. I only know that operation failed. I only know nothing has yet come from that sting operation, though I wonder if the Grand Jury is sitting to discuss whether there is enough to charge Terri for a crime regarding a MFH plot in the past. What I do know is that at this point, LE has said nothing regarding a MFH, has not indicated that Terri is even implicated in one. What they may have said to Kaine to alarm him enough to explain to the judge that he has reason to believe Terri wanted to hire someone is not the same as saying she DID hire someone. And I am not suggesting he or his lawyer lied to a judge to get a restraining order. Having reason to believe something is enough in most instances to get a restraining order. That is not the same as suggesting there was proof of it, nor that there will be proof in order to keep the restraining order in place once it's served its purpose.

As to why Terri hasn't spoken of it, or why the landscaper hasn't spoken of it, I cannot guess. I imagine the landscaper is under orders to not speak, since he was in fact involved in a police sting which was meant to garner evidence. Legally it is smarter to keep their mouth shut. The law must prove it; Terri is not required to explain herself to the public. Sure, everyone would like her to defend herself "if she's innocent" but not speaking is not proof of guilt.

And I for one expect that should I ever find myself in such a situation, someone...........even if it is one lone person out there......would defend the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. I have seen nothing of any sort which points to proof. I've only seen gossip and innuendo and suggestions that there MIGHT be something which will MAYBE prove Terri was on some sort of crime spree. As of this moment, I have not seen it.

Donjeta in response ...

Based on that standard of evidence we must assume that nobody did anything to Kyron as far as we are concerned because everybody in the whole wide world is presumed equally innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. I don't think we'll see what proof and evidence LE has until they're ready to for an arrest and a trial, whether it's against Terri or somebody else, so the speculative stuff and all the maybe's are all there is going to be for us to discuss up until then. Maybe there is little point in having threads for unsolved cases at all and it would be more sensible to just talk about the cases that had the proof and the conviction already.

:applause::applause::applause::applause::applause:

 

[Caligram]

Terri has had an opportunity to speak out and respond to the assertions that she is responsible for Kyron's disappearance. She chose not to, and her silence speaks volumes. My heart aches for Kaine, as it appears that Terri decided to to punish him by taking and destroying what he loved most. Terri may remain silent, to watch him suffer, and make him pay for not being what she wanted most.

 

[SmoothOperator]

originally posted by debs
you're right, and we both know well one father in particular who expressed this very same sentiment and it has been used to indicate he's guilty .... Of something.

wth??:shocked2:

I am truly shocked that Kaine and Kaine's actions, demeanors, and words are LITERALLY being compared to those of Ron Cummings...

This is absolutely shocking that these two men are being referenced one to another even in the slightest of likeness in any way, shape, or form.

Kaine is now in the same category of a man that is a habitual offender(tho not found guilty of many of the charges, but nonetheless has been charged with a multitude of criminal offense) and is currently incarcerated on multiple felony drug trafficking charges and will continue to be incarcerated for at minimum the next 15 yrs? A comparison to Kaine?

Ron's actions back when Haleigh disappeared were EXTREMELY emotional, crying in front of cameras, and crying while pleading for whomever had his daughter to please bring her home...

These actions of Ron have been scrutinized, criticized, etc and then Kaine acting in a complete opposite demeanor since his son disappeared, very calm, controlled, etc but yet also still pleading for his son's return...
And yet Kaine. his actions and his demeanor have too been met with the exact same criticism, scrutiny, and negative judgements...heit

I am now understanding the very many posts that are saying that in "some eyes" Kaine cannot do anything "right" that no matter what his words, demeanors or actions their are "those in glass houses that continue casting stones"(<---a quote from a previous post in this thread)...

But IMO no matter what "negativity" ppl feel about Kaine, it's preposterous for Kaine Horman( an educated man with a highly respectable job who worked hard and provided for his family, a man extremely health conscious and seems to take much pride in himself and his health including regularly working out, and to our knowledge NOT involved in any way shape or form with using drugs or selling them) to even be in the near vacinity of anything similar to that of Ron Cummings ( a man that in past years was known to go without or moving job to job, active living in extreme risky&illegal lifestyle in and around his children, known DCS cases, and alleged major drug use and dealing)

There is absolutely NO COMPARISON WHATSOEVER. Completely unfounded and frankly all together just COMPLETELY UNTRUE.


IMO.. MOO. MOO and all that stuff.. IMO.. MOO

 

[Calliope]

Terri has had an opportunity to speak out and respond to the assertions that she is responsible for Kyron's disappearance. She chose not to, and her silence speaks volumes. My heart aches for Kaine, as it appears that Terri decided to to punish him by taking and destroying what he loved most. Terri may remain silent, to watch him suffer, and make him pay for not being what she wanted most.

Jumping off this post, and mine above, then where would be the most likely place for her to have taken Kyron ?

If her motive was to hurt Kaine, what places have the most meaning to Kaine as they relate to Kyron? What would add further pain to an already horrendous situation?

 

[ThoughtFox]

You know, I do too...and I have a sinking feeling that IF we ever find out what her true motive was/is, we may wish we hadn't. JMO, but TH scares me...I know we have pitifully few facts in this case, but what I sense, feel, opine, speculate, etc re: TH scares the chit out of me for so many reasons . I can't really put my finger on any one thing in particular, she just really, really gives me the heebie jeebies, IDK..just such a sense of foreboding...ALL based on MOO...

What scares me is that it could be something cold and calculating and premeditated, or it could be something impulsive that makes absolutely no sense. I'm not sure which would be more scary!