KC defense team.What now?

[Zuckerschnecke]

The Zanny defense is suicidal. Caylee is dead, the danger is over. KC can "tell" on those kidnappers now, but hasn't.

Accidental death followed by PTSD? PTSD doesn't affect one's ability to tell the truth.
Accidental death, covering for someone else? Hardly. Not her MO.
Accidental death, panic and cover up? Her 31 day spree does not reflect any signs of panic, sadness, fear, anxiety or any other emotion a mother might have if her child had jsut died.

Temporary insanity? Not according to all her friends.

Dr. G. made the call of homicide, meaning the death was caused by another. Since she is the expert and has actually seen ALL of the evidence and understands all the forensic reports, has talked with LE, The Body Farm and the FBI, saw the car, the crime scene and knows more about this case than anyone I know, I am going to go with her opinion.

It will be interesting to see exactly how she determined homicide to be the manner of death. Add homicide to decomp in the trunk and it is easy to see who the killer is, it is the egg donor.

Like your posts Dotseyes....I wanted to think Caylee died after/during this dispute with Cindy in some act of rage. But if that's the case, she wouldn't be acting like she does now. She would change her story, blame her parents, but she is too deep into this nanny story to back out now, she's going all the way with it. And Jose is just under her spell and will go along for the ride. Bye bye Casey...:behindbar

 

[yolorado]

Of course. The accidental death theory went out the door on June 16th. The Zanny theory will get her executed because it will insult a jury's intelligence and make them mad, like it did all of us. The defense will come up with a theory derived out of something in KC's past, IMO. They are treading on very delicate waters there. If KC goes against her own family, all gloves will come off.

Seems probable the defense will throw the A's under the bus. Everyone else in KC's life appears to have passed a polygraph. If the MM hasn't been on the box yet, my guess is that he's goin' on this week, and from the looks of him, he'll probably pass too. The defense can take some potshots at LE, and probably will, but with the mountain of evidence against their client and her own lies, actions and inactions, they're going to need more, a lot more. The fact the LE didn't 'search for an alive' Caylee is no longer a workable ploy, especially when the defense may be planning to say that a deputy who was afraid of snakes didn't look hard enough for a dead baby. LE looks like it spent is limited resourses wisely on that one given recent discoveries. If KC's aquaintences conveyed stories of abuse by her family to the police in statements, if there is evidence at the scene that leads back to 'Casa Ant,' that just might be the way the defense goes. After all KC's put the Ants through already, I think the Ants better get ready for more.

 

[Zuckerschnecke]

The death penalty is off the table. The M.E's findings do not support murder much less premeditated murder. And no one, anywhere, has ever established valid and true premises that would force a conclusion of premeditation.

I thought the ME's findings said 'death by homicide'? There is WAY more that they are not releasing. The ME almost said something about the condition or the body in more detail and caught herself. Maybe I'm not reading your post correctly, but how did you understand that Caylee became deceased then?

 

[Baznme]

The death penalty is off the table. The M.E's findings do not support murder much less premeditated murder. And no one, anywhere, has ever established valid and true premises that would force a conclusion of premeditation.

Hang onto your hat Wudge. Now that the body has been found complete with duct tape, the cards could come back out onto the table AND there's talk that there was something found in the area of the remains that leads directly back to Casey. Let's just call that "one of the cards" that LE has in their pocket.

Myself, I think Casey will try to point the finger on that crew from Fusion. She was being blackmailed or some such BS. That they were holding her daughter and she was forced to work there, do whatever and seem normal, blah, blah, blah. It won't work of course but hey, she'd try, I'm sure of that. JB hasn't seen his last foolish moment with this client.

 

[yolorado]

The death penalty is off the table. The M.E's findings do not support murder much less premeditated murder. And no one, anywhere, has ever established valid and true premises that would force a conclusion of premeditation.

At this point, with all the lies and obstruction by KC, the burden of proving accident would fall to the defense, not legally, but the jury would require a LOT of convincing after this defendent's actions and inactions, especially after hearing how she played all her friends and family and particularly after seeing crime scene photos of the little double-bagged corpse juxtaposed with pole-daning mom and various computer searches she did. If the defense wants to go the accident route, their best tact is to go hat-in-hand to the prosecution and beg for 25-30 years in exchange for a detailed confession. I actually think the prosecution would do it because I think LE has always WANTED this to be an accident. Yuri and and Allen tried to suggest that to KC in that room at Universal. Prior to the discovery of remains, the prosecution may have been getting ready to cut a deal for less time for an accident confession without a body. Now they have one, she'll she need to do some serious time if she doesn't want to take her chances at trial. My personal recommendation would be that she doesn't take her chances at trial. Who knows what she'll do though. I don't know if Jose necessarily wants this to stop so he might be pushing for a trial. She seems to be under his spell, or vice verse. I think her relationship with Cindy might be such that she will NEVER, ever admit to being present for Caylee's demise, no matter what caused it. Accident would be her best defense though, imoo, even though it would be a long-shot at this point after all she hasn't said or done up until now.

 

[Wudge]

The ME's findings at the moment...yes. Toxicology isn't back. Chloroform searches = premed.

I'm not convinced that the DP isn't coming back.

No one knows what caused her death. So lay out the premises that force chloroform searches to equal premeditation.

(no one else has been able to do this)

 

[Wudge]

I thought the ME's findings said 'death by homicide'? There is WAY more that they are not releasing. The ME almost said something about the condition or the body in more detail and caught herself. Maybe I'm not reading your post correctly, but how did you understand that Caylee became deceased then?

The cause of death is not known. The mechanics of death is not known. The M.E. listed the manner of death as an undetermined homocide.

No statute in Florida establishes an undetermined homocide to be a felony.

 

[whiteangora]

No one knows what caused her death. So lay out the premises that force chloroform searches to equal premeditation.

(no one else has been able to do this)

There is a definite connection between the chloroform searches
and the chloroform levels in the trunk, at least that's how I am
seeing it.
I am having doubts about the toxicology reports showing anything
in Caylee's bone marrow, hopefully the hair will show something toxic that
should not be there.

 

[Trino]

I have given up trying to find a reference, but I read that there may not be enough physical evidence to prove that Caylee was murdered. How awful if KC were to get off.

 

[whiteangora]

Someone had quoted the FL statues on murder earlier.
Isn't the homicide of a child an automatic felony murder?
Add some aggravating factors to that and I do think the DP
could be brought back.
Not saying it will be brought back, maybe the State will play it safe.

 

[Indigo]

No one knows what caused her death. So lay out the premises that force chloroform searches to equal premeditation.

(no one else has been able to do this)

If test results show that Caylee was subjected to chloroform,then perhaps the premeditation would come into play at the point when Casey should resonably have tried to get help for Caylee and did not. Premeditation was determined by a jury in the Hannah Overton case based on this principle.

 

[okiedokietoo]

Defending Caylee's mom a challenge, experts say
Casey Anthony's defense team has big challenge, experts say.

**Prosecutors don't need to show what killed Caylee, Geragos said. The defense needs to overcome Casey Anthony's statements and behavior.**

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/12/20/caylee.anthony.next/

 

[Wudge]

There is a definite connection between the chloroform searches
and the chloroform levels in the trunk, at least that's how I am
seeing it.
I am having doubts about the toxicology reports showing anything
in Caylee's bone marrow, hopefully the hair will show something toxic that
should not be there.

There's nothing dispositive of death by chloroform.

Toxicology testing provides a mechanism that might establish Caylee having chloroform in her body. Such a finding would not be dispositive of premediation, but it could support a felony murder charge.

 

[madeleine]

Are they preparing an accidental death defence?

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/12/20/caylee.anthony.next/

Nevertheless, forensic expert Kathy Reichs, who also is working with Anthony's defense team, sees an opening.

"Given that there's no evidence as to the cause of death, ... you could have an accidental death and a mother that panics," she told King. "There are alternative explanations."

----------------

 

[Wudge]

Someone had quoted the FL statues on murder earlier.
Isn't the homicide of a child an automatic felony murder?
Add some aggravating factors to that and I do think the DP
could be brought back.
Not saying it will be brought back, maybe the State will play it safe.

Not all homicides are illegal.

 

[zoey]

Not all homicides are illegal.

however, actions or lack thereof gotta constitute something illegal :waitasec:

 

[Wudge]

however, actions or lack thereof gotta constitute something illegal :waitasec:

No. Each situation is fact dependant. That's why it's wise not to judge ahead of the facts.

 

[Baznme]

Not all homicides are illegal.

What? Since when is homicide legal? In what State is this legal? And since when is homicide by an "undetermined means", not "undetermined homicide" not a felony?

 

[MiraclesHappen]

(now you are playing in my church)

Such as death by accident or misfortune.

Someone had quoted the FL statues on murder earlier.
Isn't the homicide of a child an automatic felony murder?
Add some aggravating factors to that and I do think the DP
could be brought back.
Not saying it will be brought back, maybe the State will play it safe.

You are on point WhiteAngora!

You don't need premed for murder one or for the DP.:blowkiss:

 

[Wudge]

What? Since when is homicide legal? In what State is this legal? And since when is homicide by an "undetermined means", not "undetermined homicide" not a felony?

Affirmative defense.

Hypo: you give your daughter permission to go hiking with the Mother next door and her daughter. The Mother ties both seven year olds to her waist as they ascend a steep hill. One child slips, and they all roll off the hillside.

Just before they all plunge to certain death, the Mother grabs a small tree on the edge of the cliff with two children dangling from the ropes around her waist. The Mother realizes she can't pull herself and both children to safety.

The Mother cuts the rope that held your daughter. Your daughter died from the fall.

Holding?