KC's Pregnancy/Denial (Merged Threads)

[drip~drop]

Spot on. No question in my mind, she would have no problem giving the baby away or throwing the baby away. She is no better, nor does she have any more emotional intellegence than the other girls who have done so. She seems to be the epitome of a sociopath, devoid of a conscious. With a thoroughly flat affect she could have returned to the dance floor, figuratively. This is just my lay person's opinion. I have no specialized training in psychology.
The one sentence "All they care about is getting Caylee back" from Casey after she was jailed upon the conclusion of the wild goose chase she took LE on the night her mom reported the child had been missing for a month told me everything I need to know about who and what her priorities are.
Everything after that comment was just icing on the perjury for me. In that once sentence, Casey Anthony told us who and what she is.
The Untold Story of Casey Anthony here:
http://websleuths.com/forums/blog.php?b=812

"Casey Anthony, she is a habitual liar, a troubled human being", Pam Bondi opined.

Do you mind if, at some time, I borrow your siggy pic? May I?

 

[knt]

Cindy must have been covertly complicit in the pregnancy denial for it to be successful for the full 7 months ... What's up with that? The pic of Cindy standing next to Casey is so odd, the look in Cindy's eyes...

She must have known the entire farce was ridiculous.

IIRC, Cindy's brother, Rick, was surprised to see Casey at the wedding. He wasn't even expecting her to come. Lee wasn't there. How easy it would've been to just go to the wedding without Casey. How odd that they needlessly paraded her in front of everyone while "hiding" her condition.

Oh right, it was just a tumor, common among virgins. Was Cindy just going to let her die from that tumor??!! Can you imagine having a tumor that large bulging out of your daughter's body?? But Cindy just shrugged it off? "Cindy the perfect mother" actually wants us to believe that about her? She didn't think that lie through too well...

 

[drip~drop]

Yep, for a mother to utter those words about her own child and in those circumstances.......... spoke volumes.

And later on, despite Cindy often leading the way, she just couldn't get her daughter to play the grieving mother role......which is another reason I believe Cindy knew the truth.........sooner rather than later .

50 days they spent under the same roof.....supposedly looking for Caylee.

They NEVER EVER looked, IMO:snooty::furious:
Why look for something when you know where it is. Like car keys.:snooty:
Very sad for poor little sweet Caylee.

 

[drip~drop]

IIRC, Cindy's brother, Rick, was surprised to see Casey at the wedding. He wasn't even expecting her to come. Lee wasn't there. How easy it would've been to just go to the wedding without Casey. How odd that they needlessly paraded her in front of everyone while "hiding" her condition.

Oh right, it was just a tumor, common among virgins. Was Cindy just going to let her die from that tumor??!! Can you imagine having a tumor that large bulging out of your daughter's body?? But Cindy just shrugged it off? "Cindy the perfect mother" actually wants us to believe that about her? She didn't think that lie through too well...

Nurses of decomp. may not know much about what a pregnancy is.
uuuugggghhhhh paatooy!:snooty:
imo
<snark off>

 

[Dignity4Victims]

Spot on. No question in my mind, she would have no problem giving the baby away or throwing the baby away. She is no better, nor does she have any more emotional intellegence than the other girls who have done so. She seems to be the epitome of a sociopath, devoid of a conscious. With a thoroughly flat affect she could have returned to the dance floor, figuratively. This is just my lay person's opinion. I have no specialized training in psychology.
The one sentence "All they care about is getting Caylee back" from Casey after she was jailed upon the conclusion of the wild goose chase she took LE on the night her mom reported the child had been missing for a month told me everything I need to know about who and what her priorities are.
Everything after that comment was just icing on the perjury for me. In that once sentence, Casey Anthony told us who and what she is.
The Untold Story of Casey Anthony here:
http://websleuths.com/forums/blog.php?b=812

"Casey Anthony, she is a habitual liar, a troubled human being", Pam Bondi opined.

I do have specialized training in Psychology, and your post is quite accurate. I also couldn't agree more with your BBM statement. I have seen a few posters comment about Casey's intelligence, however, I emphatically disagree. Rarely, if ever in fact, have I ever seen a case where the murderer seals their own fate with their own words as much as Casey Anthony did. The few voids she left were quickly filled in by her very own parents' mouths. It's used to be rather astonishing to me that this entire family who was working so hard to deflect away from Casey, accomplished just the opposite end result, but it became apparent very early on in this case that this is the "Anthony norm" - bail as fast as you can while the water seeks its' own level and eventually drowns the entire crew.

I'm just sorry that Caylee got caught up in the final tide.

 

[AZlawyer]

I think her plan was to conceal the pregnancy, then do one of the following: (1) suffocate and dispose of the baby, (2) abandon the baby and let her die (or live--just leave it up to God and absolve herself of the responsibility), or (3) leave the baby at a "Safe Haven" spot like a hospital. All these options would leave Casey, as far as the rest of the world could tell, morally unblemished.

By finally taking her to a Dr., Cindy trapped Casey into a situation where the options became: (1) adoption--which would make her look bad, (2) abortion--which would make her look bad, or (3) raising the baby--which would reveal that she was not a virgin but at least would make people give her positive attention and would give her the opportunity of developing a new "perfect young mother" persona. Option 3 was the best--and perhaps the only one Cindy would allow in any event.

I would be willing to bet that Cindy told Casey that she wouldn't have to worry about a thing and would be able to continue on with her life as normal if she kept the baby. (Cindy no doubt assumed that, as Casey got older, she would naturally mature and take more responsibility for the baby, but this did not happen.) The combination of two factors, IMO, pushed Casey to the breaking point. First, Cindy started insisting that Casey come home and be a mother--which broke Cindy's promise that keeping the baby would not affect Casey's life. Second, Caylee started talking and, like most 2-year-olds, showed a distressing tendency to give a truthful recitation of her day's activities.

So IMO Casey rationalized getting rid of Caylee as follows: she had kept the baby only because of Cindy's promises that everything would be easy and fine; Cindy's promises turned out to be false; therefore Casey was no longer bound by her end of the deal. Casey went back to her options and her original goal of looking perfect in the eyes of the world. She needed Caylee to be dead, because a "good mother" would not allow her child to be raised by someone else. But she also needed Caylee's death to be entirely not Casey's fault. A kidnap-murder was the perfect ending to the story, in Casey's mind.

 

[Dignity4Victims]

I think her plan was to conceal the pregnancy, then do one of the following: (1) suffocate and dispose of the baby, (2) abandon the baby and let her die (or live--just leave it up to God and absolve herself of the responsibility), or (3) leave the baby at a "Safe Haven" spot like a hospital. All these options would leave Casey, as far as the rest of the world could tell, morally unblemished.

By finally taking her to a Dr., Cindy trapped Casey into a situation where the options became: (1) adoption--which would make her look bad, (2) abortion--which would make her look bad, or (3) raising the baby--which would reveal that she was not a virgin but at least would make people give her positive attention and would give her the opportunity of developing a new "perfect young mother" persona. Option 3 was the best--and perhaps the only one Cindy would allow in any event.

I would be willing to bet that Cindy told Casey that she wouldn't have to worry about a thing and would be able to continue on with her life as normal if she kept the baby. (Cindy no doubt assumed that, as Casey got older, she would naturally mature and take more responsibility for the baby, but this did not happen.) The combination of two factors, IMO, pushed Casey to the breaking point. First, Cindy started insisting that Casey come home and be a mother--which broke Cindy's promise that keeping the baby would not affect Casey's life. Second, Caylee started talking and, like most 2-year-olds, showed a distressing tendency to give a truthful recitation of her day's activities.

So IMO Casey rationalized getting rid of Caylee as follows: she had kept the baby only because of Cindy's promises that everything would be easy and fine; Cindy's promises turned out to be false; therefore Casey was no longer bound by her end of the deal. Casey went back to her options and her original goal of looking perfect in the eyes of the world. She needed Caylee to be dead, because a "good mother" would not allow her child to be raised by someone else. But she also needed Caylee's death to be entirely not Casey's fault. A kidnap-murder was the perfect ending to the story, in Casey's mind.

Your entire theory sounds strikingly familiar to the very same reasons why Casey won't admit to murdering Caylee. Casey is all about deceit, and she would rather go down as the "wrongly accused VICTIM" than admit to the truth.

Great post, AZ.

 

[logicalgirl]

I think her plan was to conceal the pregnancy, then do one of the following: (1) suffocate and dispose of the baby, (2) abandon the baby and let her die (or live--just leave it up to God and absolve herself of the responsibility), or (3) leave the baby at a "Safe Haven" spot like a hospital. All these options would leave Casey, as far as the rest of the world could tell, morally unblemished.

By finally taking her to a Dr., Cindy trapped Casey into a situation where the options became: (1) adoption--which would make her look bad, (2) abortion--which would make her look bad, or (3) raising the baby--which would reveal that she was not a virgin but at least would make people give her positive attention and would give her the opportunity of developing a new "perfect young mother" persona. Option 3 was the best--and perhaps the only one Cindy would allow in any event.

I would be willing to bet that Cindy told Casey that she wouldn't have to worry about a thing and would be able to continue on with her life as normal if she kept the baby. (Cindy no doubt assumed that, as Casey got older, she would naturally mature and take more responsibility for the baby, but this did not happen.) The combination of two factors, IMO, pushed Casey to the breaking point. First, Cindy started insisting that Casey come home and be a mother--which broke Cindy's promise that keeping the baby would not affect Casey's life. Second, Caylee started talking and, like most 2-year-olds, showed a distressing tendency to give a truthful recitation of her day's activities.

So IMO Casey rationalized getting rid of Caylee as follows: she had kept the baby only because of Cindy's promises that everything would be easy and fine; Cindy's promises turned out to be false; therefore Casey was no longer bound by her end of the deal. Casey went back to her options and her original goal of looking perfect in the eyes of the world. She needed Caylee to be dead, because a "good mother" would not allow her child to be raised by someone else. But she also needed Caylee's death to be entirely not Casey's fault. A kidnap-murder was the perfect ending to the story, in Casey's mind.

This pregnancy is one part of the mystery I am really looking forward to hearing the facts about. To me, the pregnancy for ICA was an easy out of things she did not want to do, and as a sociopath, didn't see why she should do them just because her peers were. Things like going to college (that meant work) getting a job (that also meant work), moving out of home if she wasn't going on to any higher education goals. Pregnant girls get a lot of attention - positive attention. Are you feeling alright, oh no don't lift that, you just rest, etc. Great to prolong moving on with her life and staying at home in her parents care.

We have seen that ICA didn't think more than 10 minutes ahead, and she certainly didn't have to capacity to guestimate consequences. We've guessed ICA didn't have pre-natal care, but I'm still waiting to find that out as a fact. And we know Cindy tries to make the best of any bad situation by rescuing. Okay you made a mistake, we can fix this, I'll look after the baby, you can stay at home, blah blah.

For me Cindy's family is the kind that sends out those Christmas "letters" that describe all the wonderful things they have done and achieved throughout the year, including holiday trip details. Very competitive. (Whenever I get one I :waitasec: this is a Christmas greeting from you to me? Huh?

We know Cindy has great "cover-up" or avoidance skills. I think she knew her family knew ICA was pregnant as soon as they saw her - but Cindy denied it only because she didn't want to have to answer all the of questions that would follow - such as "whose is it?" Can you really imagine Cindy answering that question with "We have no idea - ICA doesn't know - it could have been anyone because she has so many casual sex partners". No way! Easier to deny deny deny. You will look fool which is better than the truth.

I actually laughed as I typed that while I watched that picture play out in my mind. For me Cindy lives by "fake it 'til you make it" as does ICA in her own very unpleasant way.

 

[beach]

I think her plan was to conceal the pregnancy, then do one of the following: (1) suffocate and dispose of the baby, (2) abandon the baby and let her die (or live--just leave it up to God and absolve herself of the responsibility), or (3) leave the baby at a "Safe Haven" spot like a hospital. All these options would leave Casey, as far as the rest of the world could tell, morally unblemished.

By finally taking her to a Dr., Cindy trapped Casey into a situation where the options became: (1) adoption--which would make her look bad, (2) abortion--which would make her look bad, or (3) raising the baby--which would reveal that she was not a virgin but at least would make people give her positive attention and would give her the opportunity of developing a new "perfect young mother" persona. Option 3 was the best--and perhaps the only one Cindy would allow in any event.

I would be willing to bet that Cindy told Casey that she wouldn't have to worry about a thing and would be able to continue on with her life as normal if she kept the baby. (Cindy no doubt assumed that, as Casey got older, she would naturally mature and take more responsibility for the baby, but this did not happen.) The combination of two factors, IMO, pushed Casey to the breaking point. First, Cindy started insisting that Casey come home and be a mother--which broke Cindy's promise that keeping the baby would not affect Casey's life. Second, Caylee started talking and, like most 2-year-olds, showed a distressing tendency to give a truthful recitation of her day's activities.

So IMO Casey rationalized getting rid of Caylee as follows: she had kept the baby only because of Cindy's promises that everything would be easy and fine; Cindy's promises turned out to be false; therefore Casey was no longer bound by her end of the deal. Casey went back to her options and her original goal of looking perfect in the eyes of the world. She needed Caylee to be dead, because a "good mother" would not allow her child to be raised by someone else. But she also needed Caylee's death to be entirely not Casey's fault. A kidnap-murder was the perfect ending to the story, in Casey's mind.

Wow. Thank you for this insight. Great post.

I am embarrassed to admit that I never thought this deep about it. I just wrote it off as another one of Casey's irresponsible acts and she went about life as usual ala "que sera, sera". I figured she finally decided to make the best of it and milk it for all it's worth to get more attention from everyone.

Your theory makes much more sense.

 

[The World According]

Wow. Was thinking similar thing as the Keli Lane case played out.
Then I noticed you listed your address as the Cross. I'm opposite Rushcutters ... neighbour.
Will PM you when the trials starts and see if you're interested in catching up for a coffee in the park.

I wonder how many other Sydney-siders are following the case?

Welcome HOLLY!!!

 

[The World According]

Do you mind if, at some time, I borrow your siggy pic? May I?

Yes, of course!!!

 

[LCoastMom]

Cindy must have been covertly complicit in the pregnancy denial for it to be successful for the full 7 months ... What's up with that? The pic of Cindy standing next to Casey is so odd, the look in Cindy's eyes...

She must have known the entire farce was ridiculous.

One inch closer and that tumor would have kicked CA!

Everything was wrong with this situation... The dress ICA was wearing only called attention to her 7 months of pregnancy - that she could sit there, surrounded by family and pretend there was a tumor under her dress screams of problems to come - that CA could pretend her daughter was a virgin while very obvious to everyone around them that ICA was very pregnant, screams that they were living in deep denial long before Caylee went missing.

Studying them would be fascinating, too bad it will never happen.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

IIRC, Cindy's brother, Rick, was surprised to see Casey at the wedding. He wasn't even expecting her to come. Lee wasn't there. How easy it would've been to just go to the wedding without Casey. How odd that they needlessly paraded her in front of everyone while "hiding" her condition.

This part makes no sense to me whatsoever, it is almost like they wanted to take their psychopathology out for a day-walk. Did Casey think she was sticking it to her parents by displaying herself and their ridiculous denial to other family members? There was no need for Casey to attend, anyone who genuinely wanted to conceal such a condition would not have.

Oh right, it was just a tumor, common among virgins. Was Cindy just going to let her die from that tumor??!! Can you imagine having a tumor that large bulging out of your daughter's body?? But Cindy just shrugged it off? "Cindy the perfect mother" actually wants us to believe that about her? She didn't think that lie through too well...

Cindy, who on earth knows what was going through her mind? Looking at those images just makes me glad that she is no longer working, she is not mentally well enough to hold down a job, the thought of her acting in any nursing capacity whatsoever is truly frightening.

 

[SuziQ]

I think when I heard that Casey told her co-workers that her issue was a tumor she was going to have removed/taken care of that Caylee was never meant to be a live child. ICA already had a plan formulated until uncle Rick foiled her plans.

FWIW, I don't know if the statement to the co-workers was ever verified or is still considered a rumor.

 

[feddup]

Spot on. No question in my mind, she would have no problem giving the baby away or throwing the baby away. She is no better, nor does she have any more emotional intellegence than the other girls who have done so. She seems to be the epitome of a sociopath, devoid of a conscious. With a thoroughly flat affect she could have returned to the dance floor, figuratively. This is just my lay person's opinion. I have no specialized training in psychology.
The one sentence "All they care about is getting Caylee back" from Casey after she was jailed upon the conclusion of the wild goose chase she took LE on the night her mom reported the child had been missing for a month told me everything I need to know about who and what her priorities are.
Everything after that comment was just icing on the perjury for me. In that once sentence, Casey Anthony told us who and what she is.
The Untold Story of Casey Anthony here:
http://websleuths.com/forums/blog.php?b=812

"Casey Anthony, she is a habitual liar, a troubled human being", Pam Bondi opined.

I do think Casey is a sick young woman. I know somene who had a baby when she was 15 and was an EXCELLANT Mother. She sure loved her son and last i heard, he had graduated college! She did a great job and she did not have it so easy likeCasey did. Casey had it easy compared to some single Mothers. Im sure, within reason, CA wouldve babysat when she went out on dates, etc and she probably bought all the food, baby furniture, etc it looked like Caylee had everything.
yes, we have safe places here where girls who dont want their babies can drop them off, i do believe they are any fire dept, no questions asked.
I guess this wasnt an option for Casey but....I do believe that at first she did WANT Caylee,she just didnt realise what a big responsibility it would be.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

One inch closer and that tumor would have kicked CA!

Everything was wrong with this situation... The dress ICA was wearing only called attention to her 7 months of pregnancy - that she could sit there, surrounded by family and pretend there was a tumor under her dress screams of problems to come - that CA could pretend her daughter was a virgin while very obvious to everyone around them that ICA was very pregnant, screams that they were living in deep denial long before Caylee went missing.

Studying them would be fascinating, too bad it will never happen.

I don't understand what was so horrible about admitting she was pregnant. It's the 21st century, people do have kids out of wedlock and I don't think there's much of a stigma associated with it. The idea that a person would need to have control to the point of lying about a pregnancy is astonishingly sick. The whole ordeal had to have colored their perceptions of Caylee from the start. Calling an unborn child a "tumor" to cover up a pregnancy is extremely disturbing.

 

[MomofBoys]

The Anthonys live in a constant state of denial. I don't think it was a sudden onset condition brought on by the trauma of losing Caylee.

That said, are we sure that they were complicit in the coverup of the pregnancy? I'm not. I think if Casey told them the sky was fuschia, they'd smile and agree because it would be easier than the alternative. George and Cindy have a sort of denial folie a deux that is really quite amazing, I'd imagine, from a psychology perspective. They should be trapped and studied.

From a common sense perspective, however, I don't think KC could have picked a more revealing outfit for that wedding. It actually hollers "HI! I'M PREGNANT!" The pastel blue, which nicely accentuates the bump. The little white sweater tied meekly in front. It's like she pulled it off a mannequin at Motherhood. I can't imagine that CA wouldn't have said "Do you want to draw attention to your tumor? Put on some spanx, for cryin' out loud."

I think this was intended to make the relatives talk. I think this was a passive move by KC (or the family in concert) to let everyone know so CA wouldn't have to send out some kind of humiliating mass email. I still don't believe CA had come to terms with the pregnancy, however, and was likely still praying that KC had benign fibroids. Maybe KC told her "Hey, mom. I went to the GYN today and they said I had a 3.5 pound fibroid. They said the earliest OR slot was opening in 2.5 months."

Seriously, though. I had the odd fortune of meeting the Anthonys once. I thought GA was a sweet guy who seemed tired. CA was very pleasant to me, but seemed out of it. She spent our conversation pulling sandspurs off my jacket. I sympathize with the crazy nightmare their life has become, but it's hard to talk to them and not come away with the feeling that there is and was something very, very wrong going on in their lives. I know it's hard for a stranger to know, but they just looked beat down by life in a way that goes beyond the Caylee horror. I'm sure there was no small amount of parenting malpeactice going on, but I also think that KC has damaged them over the years.

 

[passionflower]

IIRC there was a sonagram pix of a fetus on the wall framed in Greta's
film strip which surprised me when CA showed Caylee's room.
NO tumor..just a lie!!
I think it was discussed back then while Caylee was missing on WS.
IMO, CA KNEW all along that ICA was pregnant.
CA wanted another child,JMOO
ICA Never wanted the baby.
She kept Caylee only because CA INSISTED ON IT.
I agree ICA would of gotten rid of Caylee early on if it wasn't for CA.
CA taught ICA how to lie and decieve,.IMO
After the huge father's day fight ICA had had enough of this parasite child and
decided to get rid of her.
Poor darling Caylee never stood a chanse in that family.
They gave her everything but she never had her mother's love.........JMOO

 

[joypath]

Perhaps the saddest commentary from all of this is the following: THIS IS NOT ALL THAT UNUSUAL! The fact that immature young women turn into unprepared single mothers is common, the manner in which the young woman (or may I add, ANY woman) responds to the needs of the dependant offspring that she CHOSE to bring into this world is the point of growth and "stepping up to the dinner plate and away from the vanity table". In imho, Caylee was equated to a living doll by most members of that household BUT the difference was the true adult members (CA, GA and even LA) eventually recognized that she was a child requiring nurturing & gave from their own reference points. The inmate did not appear to recognize that Caylee was anything beyond a "prop" to be utilize for HER (the inmate's ) benefit, advantage and well-being. My "guesstimate" is that the nearly 3 year old, articulate mini-adult due to excessive adult type stimulation (TV, Videos, Adult "play" interactions ONLY) was capable of "conversing with CECE" on the infamous Mt. Dora ride home and thus the fecal material hit the fan on Father's Day night so the inmate took action.
More than one case I've covered has had the tale of woe attached that the filicide was justified because the child was "getting too much attention, causing "issues" within the "family unit", "stealing attention from MY man"

 

[Chiquita71]

I think her plan was to conceal the pregnancy, then do one of the following: (1) suffocate and dispose of the baby, (2) abandon the baby and let her die (or live--just leave it up to God and absolve herself of the responsibility), or (3) leave the baby at a "Safe Haven" spot like a hospital. All these options would leave Casey, as far as the rest of the world could tell, morally unblemished.

By finally taking her to a Dr., Cindy trapped Casey into a situation where the options became: (1) adoption--which would make her look bad, (2) abortion--which would make her look bad, or (3) raising the baby--which would reveal that she was not a virgin but at least would make people give her positive attention and would give her the opportunity of developing a new "perfect young mother" persona. Option 3 was the best--and perhaps the only one Cindy would allow in any event.

I would be willing to bet that Cindy told Casey that she wouldn't have to worry about a thing and would be able to continue on with her life as normal if she kept the baby. (Cindy no doubt assumed that, as Casey got older, she would naturally mature and take more responsibility for the baby, but this did not happen.) The combination of two factors, IMO, pushed Casey to the breaking point. First, Cindy started insisting that Casey come home and be a mother--which broke Cindy's promise that keeping the baby would not affect Casey's life. Second, Caylee started talking and, like most 2-year-olds, showed a distressing tendency to give a truthful recitation of her day's activities.

So IMO Casey rationalized getting rid of Caylee as follows: she had kept the baby only because of Cindy's promises that everything would be easy and fine; Cindy's promises turned out to be false; therefore Casey was no longer bound by her end of the deal. Casey went back to her options and her original goal of looking perfect in the eyes of the world. She needed Caylee to be dead, because a "good mother" would not allow her child to be raised by someone else. But she also needed Caylee's death to be entirely not Casey's fault. A kidnap-murder was the perfect ending to the story, in Casey's mind.

Respectfully Quoted AZlawyer :cool2:
BBM

Thank you AZ! You filled in the perfect pieces for me here. After reading what you have wrote, esp. the BBM: Cindy's MySpace entry comes to mind.

A daughter comes to her mother for support when she is pregnant, the mother says without hesitation it will be ok. And it was. But then the lies and betrayal began.

And, Lee says Cindy was the first to hold Caylee in the hospital and that was a source of argument between the two, ahem, women. I always took that like Casey was angry at Cindy for acting like Caylee's mom(and she was per Annie Dowling and George who defended the idea he nor Cindy had ever had Caylee call them anything like that, she called them JoJo and CeCe)but per the deal between Cindy and Casey maybe Cindy felt entitled(imagine that!?)and Casey only cared because it gave her ammunition.

I have not had a child, nor been in attendance for a birth so TIA: wouldn't the professional(nurse, doctor)understand who the mother is and give the baby accordingly? How is it that Cindy would come to be the first one to hold Caylee?

Obviously your post got me ta thinkin'...thanks!

...js...