Knowing all you know today about this case who do you think really killed JonBenet?

[Bonnette]

I don't know about this. The more I think about it, the more BR doesn't make sense, as the guilty one. 1st of all, if a lawyer or dr actually gave the Rs such horrid advice, IMO, after the shinola hit the fan, they would have changed their advice...,too many innocent lives were being ruined, for a dr to stand idly by. For instance, stories and speculation were swirling about the santa claus. I mean, a real case was made against him, and he could have been charged with murder. What would the Rs have done? Also, the housekeeper was interviewed and had to give multiple writing samples. I bet that woman was scared to death. One of these people could have gone to prison, and for what? to protect a 9 year old's reputation? No, I think something else was going on here. It's 1 thing to protect your child, but not to the point of letting an innocent person take the fall. The Rs, if caught, would have faced their own serious trouble, for lying and setting somebody up. MOO.

This is one of the issues that gave me the greatest pause, initially. In the end, I think that the Ramseys felt okay about throwing spaghetti at the wall because they knew it would not...could not...stick: investigators wouldn't find sufficient evidence to charge anyone the Ramseys named as potential suspects, simply because none of them were guilty. Naming those people was a tactic in the service of obfuscation and delay. The Ramseys probably had no way of knowing that Santa Claus and his wife had a history that could look bad; even so, Mr. and Mrs. Claus were eventually cleared.

I don't think that the Ramseys had a lot of time to cook up a story, because what happened was not premeditated; they had to think on the fly, and under stress of that magnitude a person's basic nature takes control of the personality. I believe that the Ramseys would have thrown anyone under the bus, just to take attention away from their son - knowing that in all likelihood, nothing would come of their stated suspicions. If something had, and one of the people they named had actually been charged, then they might have owned up. They took their chances, and it paid off.

This is only my opinion, which of course counts for nothing in the scheme of things and certainly is not presented as truth - it is the explanation that makes the most sense to me, but I recognize that others with equal or greater familiarity with the case than mine hold very different views.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I do not, and never will, believe BR is guilty of anything except being a witness.

There were two psychopaths in that house, and BR was not one of them.

If he was capable of such behaviour at such an early age, he would have grown up to be a deeply troubled or violent young man, not the amazingly normal success story he actually is.

Again, just my opinion.

 

[BOESP]

I don't know about this. The more I think about it, the more BR doesn't make sense, as the guilty one. 1st of all, if a lawyer or dr actually gave the Rs such horrid advice, IMO, after the shinola hit the fan, they would have changed their advice...,too many innocent lives were being ruined, for a dr to stand idly by. For instance, stories and speculation were swirling about the santa claus. I mean, a real case was made against him, and he could have been charged with murder. What would the Rs have done? Also, the housekeeper was interviewed and had to give multiple writing samples. I bet that woman was scared to death. One of these people could have gone to prison, and for what? to protect a 9 year old's reputation? No, I think something else was going on here. It's 1 thing to protect your child, but not to the point of letting an innocent person take the fall. The Rs, if caught, would have faced their own serious trouble, for lying and setting somebody up. MOO.

Dodie, this is where the narcissism and arrogance comes in.

The old saying, "Pretty is as pretty does," rings in my mind every time I think about Patsy Ramsey. As for John, there is another old saying: "He didn't get there without stepping on a few heads."

 

[Whaleshark]

I do not, and never will, believe BR is guilty of anything except being a witness.

There were two psychopaths in that house, and BR was not one of them.

If he was capable of such behaviour at such an early age, he would have grown up to be a deeply troubled or violent young man, not the amazingly normal success story he actually is.

Again, just my opinion.

Again, you assume two possibly incorrect things:

1) Whoever did this was a psychopath in the first place.
2) All psychopaths continue to do psychopathic things their whole lives.

 

[OpenMind4U]

I do not, and never will, believe BR is guilty of anything except being a witness.There were two psychopaths in that house, and BR was not one of them.

If he was capable of such behaviour at such an early age, he would have grown up to be a deeply troubled or violent young man, not the amazingly normal success story he actually is.

Again, just my opinion.

I can hear you...But 'never say never'...Can I ask you, based on what you stated that Burke 'grown up to be...amazingly normal success story'?? Maybe something you know what I don't: Burke has finished college as thousands kids do...He got good job (probably using his Daddy connections)...he works, dates...so, what's 'amazingly normal success' we're talking here about? You know what's NOT 'amazingly normal' to me about the grown-up Burke? It's his unwillingness to talk/help LE to solve the brutal murder case of his loving sister. It's pretty coward action of grown-up man, would you think? If he has nothing to hide, if he has nothing to add, if he is simply busy - the grown-up, educated, 'amazingly normal successfull' young man should find the time in HONOR of his sister's memory; do whatever has been asked of him to do, and as many times as needed....This what I would call 'amazingly normal' young man. JMO

 

[dodie20]

This is one of the issues that gave me the greatest pause, initially. In the end, I think that the Ramseys felt okay about throwing spaghetti at the wall because they knew it would not...could not...stick: investigators wouldn't find sufficient evidence to charge anyone the Ramseys named as potential suspects, simply because none of them were guilty. Naming those people was a tactic in the service of obfuscation and delay. The Ramseys probably had no way of knowing that Santa Claus and his wife had a history that could look bad; even so, Mr. and Mrs. Claus were eventually cleared.

I don't think that the Ramseys had a lot of time to cook up a story, because what happened was not premeditated; they had to think on the fly, and under stress of that magnitude a person's basic nature takes control of the personality. I believe that the Ramseys would have thrown anyone under the bus, just to take attention away from their son - knowing that in all likelihood, nothing would come of their stated suspicions. If something had, and one of the people they named had actually been charged, then they might have owned up. They took their chances, and it paid off.

This is only my opinion, which of course counts for nothing in the scheme of things and certainly is not presented as truth - it is the explanation that makes the most sense to me, but I recognize that others with equal or greater familiarity with the case than mine hold very different views.

Maybe, but I'm not sure the RS would have ruined their own names, to help anybody, not even their son. And plenty of people suspected BR anyway, so nothing was really accomplished. With their connections, they could have, at any point, told the truth and then got their son and moved away. All the public would have been told, was that JBR either died of an accident, or her 9 year old, non-chargable brother, had accidentally killed her. And for the media, the Rs could have made up a sad little story, and left out all the weird stuff. IMO, if they could have done this, they wouyld have. It's just an opinion, but I don't think the Rs would have suffered so much ridicule for their son. He was a minor, wasn't looking at prison time, and the details of JBR's death, would have been kept secret. There is still so much we haven't been told, and I have no doubt, that if a minor was responsible, we would have heard even less. MOO.

 

[LinasK]

I can hear you...But 'never say never'...Can I ask you, based on what you stated that Burke 'grown up to be...amazingly normal success story'?? Maybe something you know what I don't: Burke has finished college as thousands kids do...He got good job (probably using his Daddy connections)...he works, dates...so, what's 'amazingly normal success' we're talking here about? You know what's NOT 'amazingly normal' to me about the grown-up Burke? It's his unwillingness to talk/help LE to solve the brutal murder case of his loving sister. It's pretty coward action of grown-up man, would you think? If he has nothing to hide, if he has nothing to add, if he is simply busy - the grown-up, educated, 'amazingly normal successfull' young man should find the time in HONOR of his sister's memory; do whatever has been asked of him to do, and as many times as needed....This what I would call 'amazingly normal' young man. JMO

Yes, but let's not forget, first and foremost: he's a Ramsey! They've been trained/ingrained to protect their own. I think Burke was a possible witness to JB's murder at the hands of one of both their parents and I think he's covering for John. Those financial strings can be very powerful!

 

[OpenMind4U]

Yes, but let's not forget, first and foremost: he's a Ramsey! They've been trained/ingrained to protect their own. I think Burke was a possible witness to JB's murder at the hands of one of both their parents and I think he's covering for John. Those financial strings can be very powerful!

Agree, it could be possible. So, what's make TODAY's Burke to be such an 'amazingly normal success' grown-up person???.........

 

[dodie20]

I can hear you...But 'never say never'...Can I ask you, based on what you stated that Burke 'grown up to be...amazingly normal success story'?? Maybe something you know what I don't: Burke has finished college as thousands kids do...He got good job (probably using his Daddy connections)...he works, dates...so, what's 'amazingly normal success' we're talking here about? You know what's NOT 'amazingly normal' to me about the grown-up Burke? It's his unwillingness to talk/help LE to solve the brutal murder case of his loving sister. It's pretty coward action of grown-up man, would you think? If he has nothing to hide, if he has nothing to add, if he is simply busy - the grown-up, educated, 'amazingly normal successfull' young man should find the time in HONOR of his sister's memory; do whatever has been asked of him to do, and as many times as needed....This what I would call 'amazingly normal' young man. JMO

and even if BR knows absolutely nothing, his sister was viciously murdered, right there in his own house, while they were all home. How could any kid, under these cicumstances, grow up to be well adjusted or normal? The media frenzy alone, was abnormal enough to cause permanent emotional damage. This family became famous, for the most horrible reason immaginable. They went on trips, did interviews, wrote books and made money, all based on his little sister's bizarre life and murder. Her woman/child pictures were plastered everywhere, and people who were once close friends, were now out of their lives. But, BR managed to just move on and get on with his life? I doubt it. What a horrible childhood. MOO

 

[SapphireSteel]

Apart from anything else, those kids lives were scheduled almost to the minute.

PR was the original "hover parent"...when on earth did Burke even get the chance to molest his sister?

She was attending school, deportment lessons, hair dressers appointments, dance lessons.

He was playing soccer and God knows what else.

They were rarely, if ever, left alone.

This sort of sibling fooling around occurs when kids are left on their own for extended periods of time, further, it usually escalates from show and tell or "doctors" to something more sinister.

WHEN DID BURKE HAVE THE TIME?

:moo:

 

[OpenMind4U]

Apart from anything else, those kids lives were scheduled almost to the minute.

PR was the original "hover parent"...when on earth did Burke even get the chance to molest his sister?

She was attending school, deportment lessons, hair dressers appointments, dance lessons.

He was playing soccer and God knows what else.

They were rarely, if ever, left alone.

This sort of sibling fooling around occurs when kids are left on their own for extended periods of time, further, it usually escalates from show and tell or "doctors" to something more sinister.

WHEN DID BURKE HAVE THE TIME?:moo:

I don't know....Maybe we should ask their housekeeper who stated that she saw them in the bed together and when she walk in - Burke ordered her to leave: 'Get out of here!'....:what:

 

[Chrishope]

Maybe, but I'm not sure the RS would have ruined their own names, to help anybody, not even their son. And plenty of people suspected BR anyway, so nothing was really accomplished. With their connections, they could have, at any point, told the truth and then got their son and moved away. All the public would have been told, was that JBR either died of an accident, or her 9 year old, non-chargable brother, had accidentally killed her. And for the media, the Rs could have made up a sad little story, and left out all the weird stuff. IMO, if they could have done this, they wouyld have. It's just an opinion, but I don't think the Rs would have suffered so much ridicule for their son. He was a minor, wasn't looking at prison time, and the details of JBR's death, would have been kept secret. There is still so much we haven't been told, and I have no doubt, that if a minor was responsible, we would have heard even less. MOO.

Thanks for some common sense.

 

[Whaleshark]

Apart from anything else, those kids lives were scheduled almost to the minute.

PR was the original "hover parent"...when on earth did Burke even get the chance to molest his sister?

She was attending school, deportment lessons, hair dressers appointments, dance lessons.

He was playing soccer and God knows what else.

They were rarely, if ever, left alone.

This sort of sibling fooling around occurs when kids are left on their own for extended periods of time, further, it usually escalates from show and tell or "doctors" to something more sinister.

WHEN DID BURKE HAVE THE TIME?

:moo:

Bedtime, playtime, night time....

Again you ask this; again I answer... They did sleep at home most of the time.... Hours at bedtime alone is plenty of time... And the most likely time, since jonbenet spent many nights in Burke's room.

You act like molestation takes multiple upon multiple hours to complete.

But you can continue to live in fantasy land if you want...

And here's a question anyway.... Someone molested her- the evidence is there regardless of how busy they all were. It happened regardless.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Bedtime, playtime, night time....

Again you ask this; again I answer... They did sleep at home most of the time.... Hours at bedtime alone is plenty of time... And the most likely time, since jonbenet spent many nights in Burke's room.

You act like molestation takes multiple upon multiple hours to complete.

But you can continue to live in fantasy land if you want...

And here's a question anyway.... Someone molested her- the evidence is there regardless of how busy they all were. It happened regardless.

Children who indulge in sexual play are usually victims themselves.

Your statement that I live in "fantasy land" implies that you alone know the truth of what happened that night.

You do not. No one does. My opinion is just as valid as yours, as is my right to state it without being accused of being a fantasist.

Thank you.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I don't know....Maybe we should ask their housekeeper who stated that she saw them in the bed together and when she walk in - Burke ordered her to leave: 'Get out of here!'....:what:

They had comfortable, warm beds to fool around in, unnoticed by their parents, according to this theory.

Why then would he take her to a cold dark basement?

And stop to feed her pineapple and some tea on the way?

 

[Whaleshark]

Children who indulge in sexual play are usually victims themselves.

Your statement that I live in "fantasy land" implies that you alone know the truth of what happened that night.

You do not. No one does. My opinion is just as valid as yours, as is my right to state it without being accused of being a fantasist.

Thank you.

I didn't say anything contrary to why children indulge... That is true for some... Yes, very true that some children who indulge in sexual play are usually victims themselves.. either of them could have been.

I was answering your claim that they didn't have time for molestation activities because their schedules were so busy. First, she WAS molested anyhow, per evidence.... And I was saying that you are living in fantasy land if you think there was no TIME for molestation.... Not that I know exactly what happened...

And they weren't doing sports and activities all thru the night either. They had to go to bed, be at home, have play time and night time, and time to themselves, anyway...

And, if Jonbenet was so busy so there was no time for molestation, how did her vagina end up the way it did?
Even it it wasn't Burke (and I have no theory for sure, so I'm not saying it is him for sure), but even if it wasn't Burke, if they were all SO busy that there was absolutely no time for molestation, how is it possible that there is any sign of molestation in her vagina, then, at all?

 

[txsvicki]

I agree that if a brother did it maybe even as you g as age 6-7 when symptoms were first reprted to a doctor that someone had to sexualize him. That could come from other kids though and happen quickly while playing. The kids did seem to be on their own alot when not frantically running around getting their images polished. That is evidenced by the messes all over the house and peanut butter jar lids and food left out. Patsy also seemed to have just left them with anyone and let them play outside without an adult.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I didn't say anything contrary to why children indulge... That is true for some... Yes, very true that some children who indulge in sexual play are usually victims themselves.. either of them could have been.

I was answering your claim that they didn't have time for molestation activities because their schedules were so busy. First, she WAS molested anyhow, per evidence.... And I was saying that you are living in fantasy land if you think there was no TIME for molestation.... Not that I know exactly what happened...

And they weren't doing sports and activities all thru the night either. They had to go to bed, be at home, have play time and night time, and time to themselves, anyway...

I didn't CLAIM, it was opinion.

Further, as I said, if they had a nice comfy warm bed to fool around in....why the cold dark basement?

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

Maybe, but I'm not sure the RS would have ruined their own names, to help anybody, not even their son. And plenty of people suspected BR anyway, so nothing was really accomplished. With their connections, they could have, at any point, told the truth and then got their son and moved away. All the public would have been told, was that JBR either died of an accident, or her 9 year old, non-chargable brother, had accidentally killed her. And for the media, the Rs could have made up a sad little story, and left out all the weird stuff. IMO, if they could have done this, they wouyld have. It's just an opinion, but I don't think the Rs would have suffered so much ridicule for their son. He was a minor, wasn't looking at prison time, and the details of JBR's death, would have been kept secret. There is still so much we haven't been told, and I have no doubt, that if a minor was responsible, we would have heard even less. MOO.

Both John and Pasty could of saved face in a story of their minor son accidentally killed his sister and moved on, but there was more than that involved and it wasn't pretty.

I don't think Pasty could face her friends and the public with them knowing her son not only killed JonBenet but that he raped her with something ,then strangled her to death. There wasn't anyway to sugarcoat it. How would their friends feel and act around Burke? Would they want him around their children? What if he did something to their child?

When did Fleet White learn about the sexual part of JonBenet's murder? Was it when they were in Atlanta for her funeral? Could that of been what Fleet White was upset about? Did he put what he knew together and then figured out that there wasn't any kidnappers? and it had to be someone in that house and Burke was involved? Would he go talk to his children to see if Burke had done anything to them?

The rape by the paintbrush was what they thought would cover up what was happening to JonBenet. The strangling was to end her suffering quickly.

 

[Whaleshark]

I didn't CLAIM, it was opinion.

Further, as I said, if they had a nice comfy warm bed to fool around in....why the cold dark basement?

Well, that may not have been the reason they went down there in the first place.

Kolar reported that Burke is the one who opened and peeked at the rest of the presents in the cellar, and Patsy covered for him saying it was she who opened them because she forgot what was in them.... That was new info released per the book.

I can see them going down to see what was in the packages...with Burke asking her to go and sneak and see....

The poking with the stick at that time, may have been part of opportunity if she was already unconscious after whatever happened that caused her to incur the head bash and all...maybe they were fighting over the toys... maybe she threatened Burke with telling on him if he kept looking in the gifts, but it doesn't have to mean the reason they went down there was to molest her in the first place....

Per autopsy, there was chronic molestation and shriveled hymen evidence....
so someone had time to molest her at some point, either way.