Knowing all you know today about this case who do you think really killed JonBenet?

[ILikeToBendPages]

Apart from anything else, those kids lives were scheduled almost to the minute.

PR was the original "hover parent"...when on earth did Burke even get the chance to molest his sister?

She was attending school, deportment lessons, hair dressers appointments, dance lessons.

He was playing soccer and God knows what else.

They were rarely, if ever, left alone.

This sort of sibling fooling around occurs when kids are left on their own for extended periods of time, further, it usually escalates from show and tell or "doctors" to something more sinister.

WHEN DID BURKE HAVE THE TIME?

:moo:

It only takes a few minutes here and there. They had enough time to be found in bed together and yell at the housekeeper to get out of the room.

JonBenet slept in Burkes room on more than one occasion.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Well, that may not have been the reason they went down there in the first place.

Kolar reported that Burke is the one who opened and peeked at the rest of the presents in the cellar, and Patsy covered for him saying it was she who opened them because she forgot what was in them.... That was new info released per the book.

I can see them going down to see what was in the packages...with Burke asking her to go and sneak and see....

The poking with the stick at that time, may have been part of opportunity if she was already unconscious after whatever happened that caused her to incur the head bash and all...maybe they were fighting over the toys... maybe she threatened Burke with telling on him if he kept looking in the gifts, but it doesn't have to mean the reason they went down there was to molest her in the first place....

Per autopsy, there was chronic molestation and shriveled hymen evidence....
so someone had time to molest her at some point, either way.

Based on this theory, why then was she sexually molested?

Why would Burke choose the middle of the night when by all accounts he regularly played down there and could peek at any time?

Why did he need his sister with him to "peek"?

Why did the "peek" turn into sexual assault, if the gifts were his only motivation to go down into that cold, dark basement in the middle of the night?

Speaking from the viewpoint of a little girl who was molested by her older brother, as I was, I can assure you from that moment on you view him as a threat and you will do ANYTHING to avoid being alone with him, ever again...you certainly aren't skipping off to dark basements with him.

Sexual molestation at that age is very painful you know.

:moo:

 

[SapphireSteel]

It only takes a few minutes here and there. They had enough time to be found in bed together and yell at the housekeeper to get out of the room.

JonBenet slept in Burkes room on more than one occasion.

Again, why a cold dark basement then?

I can assure you she would NOT be in his bed if he had molested her. It is very painful at that age. She would no more willingly allow him to molest her than she would allow him to wire her up to a tractor battery and give her electric shocks. (another specialty of my older brother).

She would not be going ANYWHERE with her older brother who hurt her, especially a cold dark basement.

 

[OpenMind4U]

Again, why a cold dark basement then?

I can assure you she would NOT be in his bed if he had molested her. It is very painful at that age. She would no more willingly allow him to molest her than she would allow him to wire her up to a tractor battery and give her electric shocks. (another specialty of my older brother).

OMG! So sorry SapphireSteel!...What a cruel world we're leaving in...So, so sorry....

Your post make me stop and remember something...In PMPT, in interview with Ramsey's gardener, he was telling how JBR reacts toward her father, John. He said that JBR said that she's missing him sooo much and she wishes that he would be home more often, not leaving her for his long trips. And as she was telling him about - she starts crying.

...looks like it is not John who molested her?...I never thought it was him in begin with....sick world!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[SapphireSteel]

OMG! So sorry SapphireSteel!...What a cruel world we're leaving in...So, so sorry....

Your post make me stop and remember something...In PMPT, in interview with Ramsey's gardener, he was telling how JBR reacts toward her father, John. He said that JBR said that she's missing him sooo much and she wishes that he would be home more often, not leaving her for his long trips. And as she was telling him about - she starts crying.

...looks like it is not John who molested her?...I never thought it was him in begin with....sick world!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you, it was so long ago and I've blocked it out so successfully that I didn't even THINK to compare my situation to the JBR/BR situation.

I was around JBR's age at the time and my brother was around Burkes.

Like all little girls I adored my older brother and would do anything he said...until that day.

From then on I would literally have NOTHING to do with him...I would avoid him like the plague.

He is now a pillar of society with 6 kids himself, a headmaster in a christian school....

And still I refuse to be in the same room with him, 40 years later.

:banghead:

 

[Whaleshark]

Based on this theory, why then was she sexually molested?

I said above, that moment's molestation could have been opportunity impulse while she was laying there unconscious (if it was him, that is).

Why would Burke choose the middle of the night when by all accounts he regularly played down there and could peek at any time?

Well, he couldn't peek at hidden xmas and birthday presents in that cellar at ANY time - because if he's trying not to get caught, and those holidays are only certain days, and they are about to go out of town the next morning, he would have to choose a time when he could get to them without getting caught, and before they were getting ready to go...and those presents aren't going to be there forever...

Why did he need his sister with him to "peek"?

He didn't "NEED" her with him to peek, no... they could have never gone to bed, for that matter - it could have been while they were playing in the train room, still up or whatever, and his parents were upstairs... and he took that opportunity to look at the gifts, and she could have told him she would tell on him.... Or, they could have been in bed in Burke's room, and he wanted to go look and peek, and thought he could sneak down by himself, thinking she was asleep, and she asked him what he was doing and followed him down there anyway...maybe they got in a fight that way...maybe she wanted to see too, while he was looking in there, and they got in a fight over the presents...

Why did the "peek" turn into sexual assault, if the gifts were his only motivation to go down into that cold, dark basement in the middle of the night?"?

Again, could have been opportunity while she was already unconscious.... could have been after they were playing and it escalated....

The hidden wrapped toys were what was in the cellar, but the train room - Burke's play room, was not the dark cellar....

They could have been playing in the train room, before it happened, which again, it's theorized she was not killed in the cellar itself -- just hidden there after she died.... so, I don't think any molestation occurred in the dark cellar...that's just where her body was hidden... there were multiple rooms down there....

Speaking from the viewpoint of a little girl who was molested by her older brother, as I was, I can assure you from that moment on you view him as a threat and you will do ANYTHING to avoid being alone with him, ever again...you certainly aren't skipping off to dark basements with him.

Sexual molestation at that age is very painful you know.

:moo:

Sorry for your experience. But then I would think you would understand, of all people, that it's possible for an older brother to molest a younger sister... time on their hands or not. Interesting..

As far as fear, if it WAS him, she may not have understood that it was something to be afraid of, as of yet... it could have been exploring time and again.. depending on the type of molestation it was... some others have theorized that it escalated that night, and is what prompted the head bash in the first place... who knows.

Of course sexual molestation at that age is very painful -- if it happened in a painful way.... it depends on how she was manipulated, touched, what happened, if it was mutual play, if she was coerced, lied to, all the above....

There are different kinds of molestation, so we have to consider all possibilities, since we don't really know for sure.

 

[UKGuy]

and even if BR knows absolutely nothing, his sister was viciously murdered, right there in his own house, while they were all home. How could any kid, under these cicumstances, grow up to be well adjusted or normal? The media frenzy alone, was abnormal enough to cause permanent emotional damage. This family became famous, for the most horrible reason immaginable. They went on trips, did interviews, wrote books and made money, all based on his little sister's bizarre life and murder. Her woman/child pictures were plastered everywhere, and people who were once close friends, were now out of their lives. But, BR managed to just move on and get on with his life? I doubt it. What a horrible childhood. MOO

dodie20,
Burke was assisted by his father and he is still friends with many people from his childhood.

I think everyone mostly bought into the IDI theory, and considered the media muck-rakers, and the police incompetent.

He has been protected, physically, as a child, but now as an adult I wonder if he realizes to what extent the case might have affected him psychologically?

Sometimes joining the dots can work. I wonder if the current Cold-Case Review Team had any contact with Kolar, e.g. his BDI perspective, or even chats or requests for evidence confirmation etc?

.

 

[Bonnette]

Thank you, it was so long ago and I've blocked it out so successfully that I didn't even THINK to compare my situation to the JBR/BR situation.

I was around JBR's age at the time and my brother was around Burkes.

Like all little girls I adored my older brother and would do anything he said...until that day.

From then on I would literally have NOTHING to do with him...I would avoid him like the plague.

He is now a pillar of society with 6 kids himself, a headmaster in a christian school....

And still I refuse to be in the same room with him, 40 years later.

:banghead:

SS, I say this compassion. What happened to you is horrible. But tentative - even if abrasive - sexual exploration is not in the same category as the brutish behavior of your brother. Sex play between children is quite often consensual and based on curiosity, more than cruelty or innate perversity. I might be totally wrong, but I think that what began in a more low-key way between JR and JBR, escalated out of control due to rage of some kind. I doubt she was molested to the point of screaming loud enough for the neighbors to hear on more than this fatal occasion.

Also, you say your brother turned out to be "a pillar of society," a father of six, headmaster of a Christian school; to outside eyes, he appears righteous and completely normal - just as the Burke of today might appear to people on the outside, looking in.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I said above, that moment's molestation could have been opportunity impulse while she was laying there unconscious (if it was him, that is).



Well, he couldn't peek at hidden xmas and birthday presents in that cellar at ANY time - because if he's trying not to get caught, and those holidays are only certain days, and they are about to go out of town the next morning, he would have to choose a time when he could get to them without getting caught, and before they were getting ready to go...and those presents aren't going to be there forever...




He didn't "NEED" her with him to peek, no... they could have never gone to bed, for that matter - it could have been while they were playing in the train room, still up or whatever, and his parents were upstairs... and he took that opportunity to look at the gifts, and she could have told him she would tell on him.... Or, they could have been in bed in Burke's room, and he wanted to go look and peek, and thought he could sneak down by himself, thinking she was asleep, and she asked him what he was doing and followed him down there anyway...maybe they got in a fight that way...maybe she wanted to see too, while he was looking in there, and they got in a fight over the presents...



Again, could have been opportunity while she was already unconscious.... could have been after they were playing and it escalated....

The hidden wrapped toys were what was in the cellar, but the train room - Burke's play room, was not the dark cellar....

They could have been playing in the train room, before it happened, which again, it's theorized she was not killed in the cellar itself -- just hidden there after she died.... so, I don't think any molestation occurred in the dark cellar...that's just where her body was hidden... there were multiple rooms down there....



Sorry for your experience. But then I would think you would understand, of all people, that it's possible for an older brother to molest a younger sister... time on their hands or not. Interesting..

As far as fear, if it WAS him, she may not have understood that it was something to be afraid of, as of yet... it could have been exploring time and again.. depending on the type of molestation it was... some others have theorized that it escalated that night, and is what prompted the head bash in the first place... who knows.

Of course sexual molestation at that age is very painful -- if it happened in a painful way.... it depends on how she was manipulated, touched, what happened, if it was mutual play, if she was coerced, lied to, all the above....

There are different kinds of molestation, so we have to consider all possibilities, since we don't really know for sure.

The healed vaginal trauma and lack of hymen demonstrate that it was painful.

In my case, it was painful even though I retained my hymen (I clearly remember the pain and blood of having adult sex for the first time).

BDI implies the following -

The healed sexual trauma was unreported or unnoticed by PR, and not spoken of by JBR

JBR willingly went into a cold dark basement with her abusive older brother who had already hurt her, at least once

BR also stopped off on the way (unheard) to make his sister a snack and a cup of tea (why?)

The parents tried to "protect" one child by "finishing off" another.

The BDI theory assumes they are of the mindset to protect their son/reputation, yet the staging and garrotting of JBR implies that their mindset was EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE.

The staging was carried out while JBR was still alive, possibly moaning, seizing, vomiting...it takes a complete psychopath to go about staging when your little baby is in her death throes, then FINISH THE JOB and add some sexual injury into the mix as well (the final indignity).

If my cat catches a mouse, I either lock her outside with it to finish it off, or stick the poor little thing in the rubbish and try to forget about it.

If they were staging to cover for JR, the simplest and easiest way would be to dump the body ELSEWHERE, not leave it in the house...in BR's playroom, of all places.

BDI makes no sense at all, no matter how you slice it.

 

[UKGuy]

I said above, that moment's molestation could have been opportunity impulse while she was laying there unconscious (if it was him, that is).



Well, he couldn't peek at hidden xmas and birthday presents in that cellar at ANY time - because if he's trying not to get caught, and those holidays are only certain days, and they are about to go out of town the next morning, he would have to choose a time when he could get to them without getting caught, and before they were getting ready to go...and those presents aren't going to be there forever...




He didn't "NEED" her with him to peek, no... they could have never gone to bed, for that matter - it could have been while they were playing in the train room, still up or whatever, and his parents were upstairs... and he took that opportunity to look at the gifts, and she could have told him she would tell on him.... Or, they could have been in bed in Burke's room, and he wanted to go look and peek, and thought he could sneak down by himself, thinking she was asleep, and she asked him what he was doing and followed him down there anyway...maybe they got in a fight that way...maybe she wanted to see too, while he was looking in there, and they got in a fight over the presents...



Again, could have been opportunity while she was already unconscious.... could have been after they were playing and it escalated....

The hidden wrapped toys were what was in the cellar, but the train room - Burke's play room, was not the dark cellar....

They could have been playing in the train room, before it happened, which again, it's theorized she was not killed in the cellar itself -- just hidden there after she died.... so, I don't think any molestation occurred in the dark cellar...that's just where her body was hidden... there were multiple rooms down there....



Sorry for your experience. But then I would think you would understand, of all people, that it's possible for an older brother to molest a younger sister... time on their hands or not. Interesting..

As far as fear, if it WAS him, she may not have understood that it was something to be afraid of, as of yet... it could have been exploring time and again.. depending on the type of molestation it was... some others have theorized that it escalated that night, and is what prompted the head bash in the first place... who knows.

Of course sexual molestation at that age is very painful -- if it happened in a painful way.... it depends on how she was manipulated, touched, what happened, if it was mutual play, if she was coerced, lied to, all the above....

There are different kinds of molestation, so we have to consider all possibilities, since we don't really know for sure.

Whaleshark,
We only have the parents word for this. Those partially opened gifts may actually have been located elsewhere in the basement.

When Patsy stated she opened the gifts to see what was inside, is of course nonsense. She was covering for the person who did open the gifts and that might have been Burke, or it might also have been John, looking for the size-12's, so to redress JonBenet?

IMO, the partially opened gifts played some role in the death of JonBenet, they ended up in the wine-cellar, for the same reason JonBenet did!


.

 

[cami]

I know that so many people have spent years researching the JonBenet case and I was curious who you think killed her. I have had the same person in mind for years and still come to the same person after so many years. I'm just curious who you all think the real killer was. I know several people have changed their minds over the years. The poll is open.

I believe Patsy caused the initial head blow and then John inflicted the strangling on JonBenet. I don't believe Burke was involved at all.

I can't vote on the poll based on my belief.

 

[cami]

If I were to speculate (my opinion only, etc)...

Theory: Burke got JB some pinapple from the kitchen, and perhaps got out the flashlight at this time to look in the basement for presents. The two got into an argument over something and Burke decided to whack her with the flashlight (this seems all too possible to me, as my brother once whacked me in the head with a baseball bat). Dad and mom, for various reasons, and seeing how injured JB was, decided to cover it up. I suspect that Dad came up with the fake abduction and ordered Patsy to write the note while he took care of JB.

Why the cover up?

Dad: I suspect that dad had been sexually abusing JB for some time. He would have known that JBs abuse would be discovered in an autopsy, and I believe he hoped that the violent vaginal trama inflicted on the body would conceal this ongoing abuse from investigators. Dad clearly was the one who dressed JB, as mom never would have put her in these ridiculously oversized panties. Mom, after writing the note, probably brought her some of her favorite things.

Mom: would have been easy enough to convince. She obviously would not have wanted to lose both children, and quite possibly believed that Burkes behavior was linked to her own illness. Mom seems the obvious author of the note, not only because the writing and wording match well enough, but because John never would have written anything that ludicrous.

Burke: under this scenario Burke's behavior was more childhood idiocy than sociopathic and evil.

I can go there but I think it was mum who had the flashlight in her hand so as not to wake anyone by putting on the overhead lights when she went to bed. She makes a last check on JB and she discovers John molesting JB, she freaks and in a rage lashes out with that flashlight, not intending to hit JonBenet but she does. Both then have a deeply unconscious child who's body shows evidence of sexual abuse. Both are going to prison for a long long time if they call 911, they will lose custody of Burke, lose everything....hence the cover up to make it look as if a paedophile did it.

 

[cami]

Based on this theory, why then was she sexually molested?

Why would Burke choose the middle of the night when by all accounts he regularly played down there and could peek at any time?

Why did he need his sister with him to "peek"?

Why did the "peek" turn into sexual assault, if the gifts were his only motivation to go down into that cold, dark basement in the middle of the night?

Speaking from the viewpoint of a little girl who was molested by her older brother, as I was, I can assure you from that moment on you view him as a threat and you will do ANYTHING to avoid being alone with him, ever again...you certainly aren't skipping off to dark basements with him.

Sexual molestation at that age is very painful you know.

:moo:

So sorry to hear this. God Bless you. My question is why would Burke be searching for Xmas presents AFTER Christmas? It was Christmas Day night after all, Santa had already visited.

 

[BOESP]

So sorry to hear this. God Bless you. My question is why would Burke be searching for Xmas presents AFTER Christmas? It was Christmas Day night after all, Santa had already visited.

I could be wrong but I thought there was a gift he expected/wanted that he did not get at Christmas but he thought he might get it for his birthday in a few days.

Patsy made some formal statements about FAO Schwartz pre-wrapping gifts she bought on a trip to New York then FAOS mailed them home for her. Supposedly, iirc, she forgot just what she bought and what was in which package, some were Christmas and maybe one or two for Burke's birthday.

 

[DeeDee249]

Apart from anything else, those kids lives were scheduled almost to the minute.

PR was the original "hover parent"...when on earth did Burke even get the chance to molest his sister?

She was attending school, deportment lessons, hair dressers appointments, dance lessons.

He was playing soccer and God knows what else.

They were rarely, if ever, left alone.

This sort of sibling fooling around occurs when kids are left on their own for extended periods of time, further, it usually escalates from show and tell or "doctors" to something more sinister.

WHEN DID BURKE HAVE THE TIME?

:moo:

Kids make time. JB and her brother had their bedrooms down the hall from each other on the second floor, and no one else slept on that floor. The parents' room was on the top floor.

 

[LinasK]

Speaking from the viewpoint of a little girl who was molested by her older brother, as I was, I can assure you from that moment on you view him as a threat and you will do ANYTHING to avoid being alone with him, ever again...you certainly aren't skipping off to dark basements with him.

Sexual molestation at that age is very painful you know.

:moo:

Bingo! I'm sorry you had to go through that too. I was molested by my uncle at age 13, and I NEVER let him be alone with me ever again, despite my family continually pushing me to be with him, "Go show Uncle Louie the pictures" (Around the corner, out of sight from everyone), "Take Uncle Louie in your car", seating him next to me at seated parties!!!:banghead::banghead::banghead:

 

[Linda7NJ]

I didn't CLAIM, it was opinion.

Further, as I said, if they had a nice comfy warm bed to fool around in....why the cold dark basement?

There weren't presents in the comfy bed. The presents were in the basement


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[Linda7NJ]

Bingo! I'm sorry you had to go through that too. I was molested by my uncle at age 13, and I NEVER let him be alone with me ever again, despite my family continually pushing me to be with him, "Go show Uncle Louie the pictures" (Around the corner, out of sight from everyone), "Take Uncle Louie in your car", seating him next to me at seated parties!!!:banghead::banghead::banghead:

That's you. I'm very sorry that happened to you. She was just 6 years old, and molestation isn't always painful. Sometimes the child even enjoys it, the attention, the sensations, the "special time" IMO 6 year olds are easy to manipulate. The way it's perceived by the victim is all that counts. That's how many children are chronically sexually abused and never say a word.

That paintbrush....hurt. Was it to cover previous abuse by an adult? Or did the molestation take a sadistic turn at the hand of another child?

I tend to believe ....when considered with the reported scream, it was her brother.


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[Whaleshark]

Whaleshark,
We only have the parents word for this. Those partially opened gifts may actually have been located elsewhere in the basement.

When Patsy stated she opened the gifts to see what was inside, is of course nonsense. She was covering for the person who did open the gifts and that might have been Burke, or it might also have been John, looking for the size-12's, so to redress JonBenet?

IMO, the partially opened gifts played some role in the death of JonBenet, they ended up in the wine-cellar, for the same reason JonBenet did!


.

That's exactly what I said.... Maybe you read my post wrong?

New info from Kolar said Burke actually opened the gifts. It's apparent at that point that Patsy covered for him. I agree that it could have been the catalyst for what happened.

 

[Whaleshark]

So sorry to hear this. God Bless you. My question is why would Burke be searching for Xmas presents AFTER Christmas? It was Christmas Day night after all, Santa had already visited.

Gifts to go on their trips so they had more to open on their 'second Xmas' gatherings, and Burke's birthday gifts, which was right after Xmas in January.