Knowing all you know today about this case who do you think really killed JonBenet?

[ILikeToBendPages]

I wonder why did they call 911 ? and friends?
there´s a such delicated situation where you both read a ransom note
that says and repited 8 or 9 times they will kill their little daughter if they were doing something wrong,that they are all under scrutiny and the first thing they did is call police ?!?
I do found 2 intelligent people like the R´s won´t do that, I´d get really scared myself after reading a note like that,I´d tell police first at the phone after thinking twice if calling or not, what exactly the note says about threatening them if calling police , that they should not send a car to the house because they have been watch them, of course if JR or PR were not guilty, imo
Heidi S.

They had a early morning flight at seven to fly to Michigan to meet up with his other children. What would of been the explanation for JonBenet not being with them? What would of been their explanation to other friends and family members when they flew back to Boulder from the Christmas trip, then flying out to take the Big Red boat trip without JonBenet a few days later? There had to be an account for her not with them.

Why call 911 and friends over if that would guarantee your daughters death? Why do the exact opposite of what you've been told? There were no intruders or kidnappers and they both knew it. John was correct in saying it was an inside job. It was someone in his family that were in his house that night. Someone in his home was molesting his baby girl, hit her in the head that night, then they raped her with something and strangled her to death.

They couldn't just put her to bed and claim they found her dead that way the next morning. You don't get up and find that your child has been hit in the head, raped and had marks around her neck for no reason. It just doesn't happen in real life. They would of been arrested right then there.

They had to have an explanation of why she was missing, who took her and had to be the ones that left JonBenet in the condition she was found in. The needed to distance themselves from what was done to her. An intruder that was a child molester and rapist sounded good, but they had to have a reason for an intruder being in their home that night and a reason for her injuries. A kidnapping covered all the bases for JonBenet missing, then found violated and dead. Their finding her dead in her own home, in a dark, dank, musty, moldy, little known room in the furthest part of their home was going to be their downfall. They were hoping that their story would be believed because of their status in Boulder. They age old denial of parents doing such a thing to their child was their only hope.

 

[crimedoesnotpay]

They had a early morning flight at seven to fly to Michigan to meet up with his other children. What would of been the explanation for JonBenet not being with them? What would of been their explanation to other friends and family members when they flew back to Boulder from the Christmas trip, then flying out to take the Big Red boat trip without JonBenet a few days later? There had to be an account for her not with them.

Why call 911 and friends over if that would guarantee your daughters death? Why do the opposite of what you've been told? There were no intruders or kidnappers and they both knew it. John was correct in saying it was an inside job. It was someone in his family that were in his house that night.

They couldn't just put her to bed and claim they found her that way the next morning. They would of been arrested right then there. They had to have an explanation of why she was missing and who took her. An intruder sounded good, but they had to have a reason for an intruder being in their home that night and a reason for taking her. A kidnapping covered all the bases for JonBenet missing . The found dead in her own home was going to be their downfall. They were hoping that their story would be believed because of their status in Boulder. They age old denial of parents doing such a thing to their child was their only hope.

if you were going to go with a kidnapping story you would create a place of forced entry and remove the body from the home - they would not even have had to stage anything or to write a note even - just to report her missing - there is no way they would loosely bind her or garrotte her - also if she cracked her head and they were worried they would call an ambulance and not say: oh well we might as well kill her now rather than confess to a domestic incident - children have accidents all the time - they did not perform the "cover -up"; that would be be beyond childish. If an adult were to stage such a scene then the body would have been tightly bound and gagged and all sorts - not loosely so duct tape falls off her legs when she is picked up and the like.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

txsvicki,
Could be thats whats being referenced. Maybe John thought: Nobody has been arrested, they buy the kidnapping? So he relaxed, smiled and joked.


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Yes up until he went missing. Then his demeanor changed dramatically. Why? What did he find that caused that change?

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

If this thing (thank you for not calling it "you-know-what") was in existence prior to it being used on JonBenet, how would you account for her hair being entwined in its cord wraps around the paint brush?
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Her hair would of been caught up in the cord when she was strangled. It would of been entangled in the knot when it was placed on her and pulled. Much like her necklace was.

 

[crimedoesnotpay]

Yes up until he went missing. Then his demeanor changed dramatically. Why? What did he find that caused that change?

Maybe because the ransom phone call didn't come - did he go to his plane between the due call which didn't come an his daughter being found?

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

Burke said " what DID you find?" John says "we're not speaking to you!" They must have spoke to him before the call and he knew nothing of what was found. Patsy setting up burke to fool john, imo. I even wonder if she'd told john that burke was the last one to see jonbenet or that she'd found something else besides the note. Maybe blood on clothing the previous week?

I took it to mean something dire was going on, he heard them talking and said the "what did you see or find" phrase and John replying with the "we're not speaking to you" as John upset and telling Burke they weren't talking to or about him. Nothing more than that.

I take Pasty saying "we need them hon" on the first of the 911 call, was her wanting people between her and John and I think she called them first with John wanting to know why she would when the note said not to.

I'm pretty sure, when they were alone later that night, Pasty would of told him the Burke did it story and she did what she did for his sake. He had to go along with it from that point on to save Burke. Every thing done after the head bash was to save Burke.

 

[UKGuy]

Yes up until he went missing. Then his demeanor changed dramatically. Why? What did he find that caused that change?

ILikeToBendPages,
Who knows, maybe he moved the body, maybe he removed evidence, maybe he added fake evidence, which could have contributed towards his anxiety?


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[txsvicki]

I didn't know patsy said "we need them, hon" at the first of the 911 call. Was this new info in the book?

 

[redheadedgal]

^^^^ no. never happened:

http://www.acandyrose.com/12261996-911.htm

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

^^^^ no. never happened:

http://www.acandyrose.com/12261996-911.htm

I don't consider John or Pasty Ramsey a credible source of information.

Tricia in post #1 and 5, in New 911 lab update on Forum for Justice.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

ILikeToBendPages,
I cannot find any reference to : John was fairly calm, smiling and even joking in Perfect Murder/Perfect Town. Here are Arndt's first subjective references about John Ramsey.

Perfect Murder/Perfect Town, excerpt



There was approximately two hours between the 911 call and Burke being moved to FW's house.

Burke has prior knowledge of the 911 call, he returned to his bed and faked being asleep, conclusion: Burke Ramsey assisted in the postmortem staging of the murder of JonBenet Ramsey.

If you consider Burke was'nt involved in JonBenet's death, then I reckon this tilts the emphasis more towards PDI, since there is more forensic evidence implicating Patsy. Then again it could be John is very clever, convinced Patsy to help, and minimized any of his forensic traces?

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Things were going on at the time and it may of took a while till they got Burke out of there, but I can give them a pass. I think other than the Ramsey's, everyone else was in some distress and confusion and Burke might not of been on their radar. Sad isn't it? Pasty not tending to her boy again. So much for keep your babies close.


You do mean as in a passive sense in the staging don't you? Not actively involved in that part of the crime?
His presence during the 911 call and going back to bed is part of this crime? He knew and assisted or was he used by Pasty to do what in that part of it? What part did he contribute to? It seems like his voice during the 911 call only brought more grief to the Ramsey's

 

[crimedoesnotpay]

Things were going on at the time and it may of took a while till they got Burke out of there, but I can give them a pass. I think other than the Ramsey's, everyone else was in some distress and confusion and Burke might not of been on their radar. Sad isn't it? Pasty not tending to her boy again. So much for keep your babies close.


You do mean as in a passive sense in the staging don't you? Not actively involved in that part of the crime?
His presence during the 911 call and going back to bed is part of this crime? He knew and assisted or was he used by Pasty to do what in that part of it? What part did he contribute to? It seems like his voice during the 911 call only brought more grief to the Ramsey's

Iliketobendpages - someone said Burke may have suffered attention deficit disorder and personally I believe this disorder exhibits itself when a child is deficient in attention given by the parent - their complaint is as literal as its name.

I find it interesting that UKGuy refers to the staging as "postmortem": is this assumed or is it proven. I still put forward the contention that this was a child's game of "kidnap" gone awry is why I ask.

 

[txsvicki]

Except, that unless the pineapple bowl was also staging, burke was hungry and did not eat the pineapple. Jonbenet only ate a bit, and she must have been hungry. Something interrupted the snack and there is no touch dna of the kids mentioned on the cords or paint stick.

 

[azwriter]

I've been thinking what would make Burke ask the question "What did you find?" while his mother was on the phone to 911 with his father obviously standing by while she made the call.

Find? What was Patsy telling the 911 operator was found - the ransom note (letter) of course.

So, I am to believe Burke wasn't part of the staging and cover-up. If he's questioning what did they find, that must mean he knew nothing about the ransom note and would be puzzled as to why there would be one. Would he even know what a ramson note was or why it would be found in the house?

John's comment "We're not talking to you." Sounds like something a parent would say not only to shut up a kid, but to show great disappointment with the child.

I would think these parents had a very important talk with their son before he was sent to his bedroom and pretended to be asleep. To me a child who was guilty of something very bad and knew he was in deep trouble would be the kid who willingly goes to his room, climbs into his bed and fakes sleep.

Burke strikes me as a child who would understand his parents anger and would hop to doing what he's told. I can only imagine that in the talk with Burke, it must have been impressed upon him with a possible warning that he keep his mouth shut, dummy up and not discuss his sister and what happened that night.

If only we could hear the truth and nothing but from Fleet, Burke and Hunter.

jmo

 

[txsvicki]

If both parents did the staging then why wasn't Burke already up in his room prepared and hiding out instead of boldly asking what they did find. Burke is said to have been quiet, but he also shows quite a bit of assertiveness with this and in the interview with the doctor. Burke may have done something, but imo only Patsy would be so concerned with covering herself and fooling John that she'd completely forget that burke had a mind and a voice independent of her and would need to be prepared.

 

[otg]

I take Pasty saying "we need them hon" on the first of the 911 call, was her wanting people between her and John and I think she called them first with John wanting to know why she would when the note said not to.

I didn't know patsy said "we need them, hon" at the first of the 911 call. Was this new info in the book?

^^^^ no. never happened:

http://www.acandyrose.com/12261996-911.htm

Listen for yourself:
http://www.mediafire.com/?hfi0fb6i0hex8io
.

 

[otg]

Her hair would of been caught up in the cord when she was strangled. It would of been entangled in the knot when it was placed on her and pulled. Much like her necklace was.

I was questioning the idea of the ligature "device" having been made prior to the night it was used as stated in Post #527 [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8324056&postcount=527"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Knowing all you know today about this case who do you think really killed JonBenet?[/ame]. Of course the cord around her neck would have hair wrapped around it, and even caught up in the slip knot as it tightened up around her neck. But the knot around the paintbrush could not have been fashioned ahead of time because of the hair that was caught up in it.
.

 

[DeeDee249]

Investigators seem to agree that the ligature was made right there on JB as she lay on her stomach on the carpeted area just outside the WC door, and next to the paint tote.
No mention has been made of this in a while, but the cord had been discussed as possibly being in Patsy's paint tote (which was right under a painting that Patsy had done) for the purpose of making a sling to transport paintings that are not on a stretching frame. I went to art school. Unmounted paintings are much easier to transport than when they have been stretched on a wood frame (this is different than a decorative frame which is used to frame a completed painting. I am talking about the wooden frames that a painter stretches a canvas on before painting).
The unmounted painting is rolled into a tube shape and the cord is passed through the tube and tied so that it makes a sling around the rolled painting. Try to imagine a quiver of arrows. The rolled painting is then worn across the body using the cord the same way a quiver of arrows is worn across the body by a leather strap.
Patsy may have been planning to take some of her paintings on the trip to give as gifts or to work on the painting, and taking them stretched on wood stretchers would be cumbersome as well as heavy to transport. When on a small private plane, every ounce counts. That is why the Rs said that clothing intended for use while in Charlevoix was packed in large plastic trash bags instead of luggage.
Like the paintbrush- the cord may simply have been THERE in the tote- just another art supply- which ended up being used in the crime.

 

[redheadedgal]

I don't consider John or Pasty Ramsey a credible source of information.

john and patsy? sorry? i thought a transcript of the 911 call posted on acandyrose taken from ST's book was credible... it's the only version i've ever seen (except for the addition of the "help me jesus" remarks)

an actual link would've been helpful...

Listen for yourself:
http://www.mediafire.com/?hfi0fb6i0hex8io
.

thanks for the link. as i stated above, i've never seen or read about this before. why wouldn't acandyrose (or other applicable sites) have an updated version?

 

[txsvicki]

Why would the first words be so slurred and the rest so clear. Maybe patsy had her hand over the phone. After listening several times it does sound like she's whining and saying "need them", but that could mean all her buddies and preacher.