Knowing all you know today about this case who do you think really killed JonBenet?

[otg]

john and patsy? sorry? i thought a transcript of the 911 call posted on acandyrose taken from ST's book was credible... it's the only version i've ever seen (except for the addition of the "help me jesus" remarks)

an actual link would've been helpful...




thanks for the link. as i stated above, i've never seen or read about this before. why wouldn't acandyrose (or other applicable sites) have an updated version?

Why would the first words be so slurred and the rest so clear. Maybe patsy had her hand over the phone. After listening several times it does sound like she's whining and saying "need them", but that could mean all her buddies and preacher.

It's written as "inaudible" at ACandyRose (and many other places as well). I don't know why.

Some accounts of the call don't even mention it or make reference to it. Again, I don't know why. It's very plain to me, and IMO very telling.

I believe she's talking to Burke explaining to him that they are calling the police before she realizes the call has been answered. That's the reason for the different tones. The first (to me) is a tired but soothing, motherly tone. The second (when she starts talking to the 911 operator) is the distraught, panicked, out-of-breath, emergency tone.
.

 

[redheadedgal]

The second (when she starts talking to the 911 operator) is the distraught, panicked, out-of-breath, emergency tone.
.

the so clearly fake "distraught, panicked, out-of-breath, emergency tone" lol

excellent analysis/theorizing of the "tones"-- thanks!!

 

[txsvicki]

Yelling "police!" First as a salutation then giving the address before mentioning having a kinapping sounds exactly like the tone of the ransom note.

 

[dodie20]

It's written as "inaudible" at ACandyRose (and many other places as well). I don't know why.

Some accounts of the call don't even mention it or make reference to it. Again, I don't know why. It's very plain to me, and IMO very telling.

I believe she's talking to Burke explaining to him that they are calling the police before she realizes the call has been answered. That's the reason for the different tones. The first (to me) is a tired but soothing, motherly tone. The second (when she starts talking to the 911 operator) is the distraught, panicked, out-of-breath, emergency tone.
.

just curious, was this also verified through the enhancement? because I hear something, but I don't hear 'we need 'em', I hear what I think is either, 'how we knew', or maybe even, 'power renew'. (whatever that would mean, I guess some kind of prayer). Anyway, using the word 'hon', at a time like this doesn't make a lot of sense, imo. What about the 1st word, before this phrase? has it also been verified? I hear either 'the story', or 'destroy'. I admit I have cheap headphones, (my dog kept chewing up my good ones), but this 911 has been giving me fits. PR, really slurs some words in this call, so it's hard to decipher. moo

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

Why would the first words be so slurred and the rest so clear. Maybe patsy had her hand over the phone. After listening several times it does sound like she's whining and saying "need them", but that could mean all her buddies and preacher.

Yes her buffer. Calling people over to help change the crime scene. With saying we need them hon I take it as reason to explain why she made a previous call for them to come over.

 

[dodie20]

Why would the first words be so slurred and the rest so clear. Maybe patsy had her hand over the phone. After listening several times it does sound like she's whining and saying "need them", but that could mean all her buddies and preacher.

I noticed another slurred phrase. When PR said, 'she's not here', I hear, 'she right here'. If it hadn't been transcribed, I would have thought she slipped up. moo

 

[txsvicki]

When Patsy first said the word note she almost said ransom. She said "ran" then changed it to just a note being left. It almost sounds like her saying "there" in a much calmer tone after thinking she'd hung up.

 

[midwest mama]

I listened again to this YouTube posting of the 911 call:

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFMrNtPaSy[/URL]"



I believe Patsy is commenting to someone off-phone as the call is picked up by 911. At the :10 spot, Patsy's voice - maybe saying the word "hon", then the operator answers as she is saying "hon(?),we need 'em" to someone nearby, and as the operator is acknowledging the call, she quickly states, "police" and the address in order to initiate dispatching of the police to her home as quickly as possible.

She also says "we" and "our daughter" during the call. I think John is the one she is talking to as the call is answered, and her tone indicates to me that she is overriding what he may be indicating to her from the note in the background about not calling police. I have to say I feel her panic sounds genuine, and if she's acting, she's doing one of the finest jobs I've ever heard.

Between :33 and :56 it sounds to me that after the operator asks if the note says who took her, Patsy may have moved near the note and scanned over it and responded to the operator what she was reading herself in the note. The kitchen phone had a tremendously long cord on it which would have allowed her to move nearly anywhere in the area of the kitchen, so even if John did place it on the floor, she could have easily been reading over his shoulder

Listen carefully to 1:19 thru 1:25. Were those the "voices" that were enhanced later? If so, it sounds to me like those several words was repeated 4 times, and sounded the same, like it would have been a repeated elecronic capture of something, possibly not even words. I do admit, though, that the repeated sounds does sound like a sentence, "What did you see".

All above, JMO, but after listening to this recording, I can easily see John there, perhaps Burke there also, they've both looked at the note, checked JB's room, John has no intention of calling 911. Patsy is frantic, maybe saying, "Hon (to John) what should we do?" She's got her hand on the phone because she wants to call the police, (he's stalling), that's when she dials and says, Hon,....hon, we need'em" as the operator picks up the call.

Patsy was a southern girl, she would have said, "Hon, as she forged forward in making a call her husband had not 'decided upon' (only in her mind) just yet, - to soothe him as she proceeded." But her 'mother Bear' instinct had taken the lead, and she got that call dialed before John could stop her, especially if Burke had been standing there. John would have physically had to intervene in that call, and he would not have wanted to demonstrate that way in front of his son. And right here, as others have said, "His rice was cooked".

From that moment on, I think JR went into full damage control, even as to planting in Burke's mind that he was the one who 'let' Patsy call the police.
Of course, Patsy would have gone along with JR saying he told her to call the police, but it is right for a 'good southern and Christian wife' to defer to her husband. (Let me stress here, that I think this is ONLY the attitude PATSY may have had, so please, southern Christian wives, don't beat me up!)

The A&E documentary had Patsy stating she was on the 2nd floor when she
told JR she was going to call the police, he said OK (actually, she might have thought she heard 'OK' or was substantiating her decision to herself), he checked on Burke, she ran down to make the call - and this is what I speculate: John was right behind her, with note in hand, and she then proceeded with the call, and as all was going on, Burke also came down because he heard all the yelling and running about on the second floor.

Let's back up - after Patsy ran up, WITH THE NOTE IN HER HAND THAT SHE HAD JUST FOUND AND BEGAN TO READ, calling for John and checking on JB at the same time. She handed John the note there on the second floor (the statements about this in interviews were always iffy) and while he was looking at it, she began wondering what they should do and making a decision she was going to call the police. I don't think she had read all the stuff about NOT calling anyone as of yet, and John only had the time to tell her the note said not to call police, but not time to lay out the verbiage of the note and get her stopped before she got back down to the first floor and picked up that phone.

Before anyone wonders about finger prints on the note, remember that it's been stated before that if both of the R's had clean hands when handling the note, they probably would not have left prints. Note writer was probably wearing gloves, imo.

 

[Chrishope]

I listened again to this YouTube posting of the 911 call:

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFMrNtPaSy[/URL]"



I believe Patsy is commenting to someone off-phone as the call is picked up by 911. At the :10 spot, Patsy's voice - maybe saying the word "hon", then the operator answers as she is saying "hon(?),we need 'em" to someone nearby, and as the operator is acknowledging the call, she quickly states, "police" and the address in order to initiate dispatching of the police to her home as quickly as possible.

She also says "we" and "our daughter" during the call. I think John is the one she is talking to as the call is answered, and her tone indicates to me that she is overriding what he may be indicating to her from the note in the background about not calling police. I have to say I feel her panic sounds genuine, and if she's acting, she's doing one of the finest jobs I've ever heard.

Between :33 and :56 it sounds to me that after the operator asks if the note says who took her, Patsy may have moved near the note and scanned over it and responded to the operator what she was reading herself in the note. The kitchen phone had a tremendously long cord on it which would have allowed her to move nearly anywhere in the area of the kitchen, so even if John did place it on the floor, she could have easily been reading over his shoulder

Listen carefully to 1:19 thru 1:25. Were those the "voices" that were enhanced later? If so, it sounds to me like those several words was repeated 4 times, and sounded the same, like it would have been a repeated elecronic capture of something, possibly not even words. I do admit, though, that the repeated sounds does sound like a sentence, "What did you see".

All above, JMO, but after listening to this recording, I can easily see John there, perhaps Burke there also, they've both looked at the note, checked JB's room, John has no intention of calling 911. Patsy is frantic, maybe saying, "Hon (to John) what should we do?" She's got her hand on the phone because she wants to call the police, (he's stalling), that's when she dials and says, Hon,....hon, we need'em" as the operator picks up the call.

Patsy was a southern girl, she would have said, "Hon, as she forged forward in making a call her husband had not 'decided upon' (only in her mind) just yet, - to soothe him as she proceeded." But her 'mother Bear' instinct had taken the lead, and she got that call dialed before John could stop her, especially if Burke had been standing there. John would have physically had to intervene in that call, and he would not have wanted to demonstrate that way in front of his son. And right here, as others have said, "His rice was cooked".

From that moment on, I think JR went into full damage control, even as to planting in Burke's mind that he was the one who 'let' Patsy call the police.
Of course, Patsy would have gone along with JR saying he told her to call the police, but it is right for a 'good southern and Christian wife' to defer to her husband. (Let me stress here, that I think this is ONLY the attitude PATSY may have had, so please, southern Christian wives, don't beat me up!)

The A&E documentary had Patsy stating she was on the 2nd floor when she
told JR she was going to call the police, he said OK (actually, she might have thought she heard 'OK' or was substantiating her decision to herself), he checked on Burke, she ran down to make the call - and this is what I speculate: John was right behind her, with note in hand, and she then proceeded with the call, and as all was going on, Burke also came down because he heard all the yelling and running about on the second floor.

Let's back up - after Patsy ran up, WITH THE NOTE IN HER HAND THAT SHE HAD JUST FOUND AND BEGAN TO READ, calling for John and checking on JB at the same time. She handed John the note there on the second floor (the statements about this in interviews were always iffy) and while he was looking at it, she began wondering what they should do and making a decision she was going to call the police. I don't think she had read all the stuff about NOT calling anyone as of yet, and John only had the time to tell her the note said not to call police, but not time to lay out the verbiage of the note and get her stopped before she got back down to the first floor and picked up that phone.

Before anyone wonders about finger prints on the note, remember that it's been stated before that if both of the R's had clean hands when handling the note, they probably would not have left prints. Note writer was probably wearing gloves, imo.

Not only couldn't he afford to act that way in front of BR, but it simply would have made no difference. Once the number 911 is dialed, the call is made. Even if the phone is hung up after dialing the emergency operator will call back. If there is no answer, police will be dispatched.

I know this from personal experience. I dialed 911 by mistake (Probably because I was thinking about this case) I had not intended to dial anything even close to 911, but did. I hung up and a few moments later the phone rang. When I answered the 911 operator said someone had called 911 from my phone. I told her it was me and that it was a mistake. She asked questions such as "Can you speak freely?" "Are in in any trouble?" "Do you want the police dispatched?"

The only chance of curtailing the 911 response would be if PR hung up, then when the operator called back, she persuaded the operator everything was ok - the way I had to do with my accidental call. If she was actually upset, and not acting, there is almost no chance the operator would have believed her - her voice gave away that something was wrong.

As you said, once the call was made, his rice was cooked.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

just curious, was this also verified through the enhancement? because I hear something, but I don't hear 'we need 'em', I hear what I think is either, 'how we knew', or maybe even, 'power renew'. (whatever that would mean, I guess some kind of prayer). Anyway, using the word 'hon', at a time like this doesn't make a lot of sense, imo. What about the 1st word, before this phrase? has it also been verified? I hear either 'the story', or 'destroy'. I admit I have cheap headphones, (my dog kept chewing up my good ones), but this 911 has been giving me fits. PR, really slurs some words in this call, so it's hard to decipher. moo

In the south we call everybody hon. We are raised saying and hearing it from everyone whether you know them or not. It would of been second nature to Pasty.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

Not only couldn't he afford to act that way in front of BR, but it simply would have made no difference. Once the number 911 is dialed, the call is made. Even if the phone is hung up after dialing the emergency operator will call back. If there is no answer, police will be dispatched.

I know this from personal experience. I dialed 911 by mistake (Probably because I was thinking about this case) I had not intended to dial anything even close to 911, but did. I hung up and a few moments later the phone rang. When I answered the 911 operator said someone had called 911 from my phone. I told her it was me and that it was a mistake. She asked questions such as "Can you speak freely?" "Are in in any trouble?" "Do you want the police dispatched?"

The only chance of curtailing the 911 response would be if PR hung up, then when the operator called back, she persuaded the operator everything was ok - the way I had to do with my accidental call. If she was actually upset, and not acting, there is almost no chance the operator would have believed her - her voice gave away that something was wrong.

As you said, once the call was made, his rice was cooked.

There was a 911 call during the party on the 23rd. The police were dispatched and Susan Stine answered through the intercom IIRC. Someone said it might of been Fleet White trying to make an call to his mother who was ill. Some say the call was made from the basement phone.

Other think it might of been JonBenet. There had been a fight between JonBenet and Pasty earlier that afternoon about Pasty wanting her to wear the dress she is seen in photos. LHP said JonBenet gave in and wore it. I've wondered if JonBenet had an accident that day and Pasty was rough in cleaning her up. That was an idea I had going along with Steve Thomas's theory and would explain prior assault and bruising.

We only have John and Pasty's word of what happened when she found the note on the steps. Pasty said she stepped over the note and turned around to read it. That was one awkward step to make by stepping over the stair that had the ransom note to the one below it. I know my legs would of been to short to of done that and it does seem odd.

Why would John Ramsey be on the floor on his hands and knees reading the letter? And to leave the letter on the floor instead of the kitchen counter? They both had already read it, so why not on the counter?

 

[UKGuy]

There was a 911 call during the party on the 23rd. The police were dispatched and Susan Stine answered through the intercom IIRC. Someone said it might of been Fleet White trying to make an call to his mother who was ill. Some say the call was made from the basement phone.

Other think it might of been JonBenet. There had been a fight between JonBenet and Pasty earlier that afternoon about Pasty wanting her to wear the dress she is seen in photos. LHP said JonBenet gave in and wore it. I've wondered if JonBenet had an accident that day and Pasty was rough in cleaning her up. That was an idea I had going along with Steve Thomas's theory and would explain prior assault and bruising.

We only have John and Pasty's word of what happened when she found the note on the steps. Pasty said she stepped over the note and turned around to read it. That was one awkward step to make by stepping over the stair that had the ransom note to the one below it. I know my legs would of been to short to of done that and it does seem odd.

Why would John Ramsey be on the floor on his hands and knees reading the letter? And to leave the letter on the floor instead of the kitchen counter? They both had already read it, so why not on the counter?

ILikeToBendPages,
Because its a Grimms Fairy Tale Production. No contact means no fingerprints, means no involvement.

The fight over what JonBenet was to wear was on the day of her death, e.g. her Gap-Top or the red turtleneck, found balled up on the counter in her bathroom.


.

 

[midwest mama]

There was a 911 call during the party on the 23rd. The police were dispatched and Susan Stine answered through the intercom IIRC. Someone said it might of been Fleet White trying to make an call to his mother who was ill. Some say the call was made from the basement phone.

Other think it might of been JonBenet. There had been a fight between JonBenet and Pasty earlier that afternoon about Pasty wanting her to wear the dress she is seen in photos. LHP said JonBenet gave in and wore it. I've wondered if JonBenet had an accident that day and Pasty was rough in cleaning her up. That was an idea I had going along with Steve Thomas's theory and would explain prior assault and bruising.

We only have John and Pasty's word of what happened when she found the note on the steps. Pasty said she stepped over the note and turned around to read it. That was one awkward step to make by stepping over the stair that had the ransom note to the one below it. I know my legs would of been to short to of done that and it does seem odd.

Why would John Ramsey be on the floor on his hands and knees reading the letter? And to leave the letter on the floor instead of the kitchen counter? They both had already read it, so why not on the counter?

Why not the counter, indeed? Everything up to the time French arrived to corroborate being led through the house to find the ransom note spread out on the wooden floor next to the kitchen area, is simply a case of "he said, she said". We have absolutely no way of knowing if ANY comments the Ramseys gave as statements of the happenings before Officer French arrived were actual accounts of the events.

Both of the R's greeted French fully clothed and ready for the day at 5:59 am, just 7 minutes after the 911 call was placed. There is no corroboration available from the 911 operator as to where, who, what, etc. was on the other end of that phone, except Patsy, making the call. If Patsy was making that call as part of the whole Fairy Tale, then after she hung up, whoever was there could have doubled over in laughter and John could have said something like, "Now, should we lay out the note on the floor just to add more drama - oh, and while we're at it, lets say I was bent over it in my underwear telling you to call the police, so I can later tell everyone I knew that would be the only way to block the highways and shut down the airlines. I'm pretty important, after all, so I think they'd do all that if they thought someone had JB! They'll buy it all - and never even question how I could have possibly then gone and rechecked the house, and gotten myself all dressed, calm, cool and collected, by the time they arrive."

If this case is one thing for sure, it's a case of jumbled up clues, with no clear way to put them together well enough to solve it - nearly 16 years, and umpteen professional crime investigators later! I guess a note spread out on the floor makes just as much sense as a piece of pineapple showing up in JB's intestine!

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

ILikeToBendPages,
Because its a Grimms Fairy Tale Production. No contact means no fingerprints, means no involvement.

The fight over what JonBenet was to wear was on the day of her death, e.g. her Gap-Top or the red turtleneck, found balled up on the counter in her bathroom.


.

Linda Hoffman Pugh in PMPT said Pasty and JonBenet fought over the blue velvet dress on Monday the twenty third, and JonBenet gave in and wore the dress. Pasty and JonBenet also had a fight about the red turtleneck Christmas Day. Sounds like JonBenet was getting vocal about what she wanted to wear.

 

[BOESP]

... Both of the R's greeted French fully clothed and ready for the day at 5:59 am, just 7 minutes after the 911 call was placed....

Even more amazing, according to Patsy and John's statements, John arose at 5:25 (five minutes before the 5:30 alarm was set to go off) and Patsy arose shortly thereafter while John was in the shower.

She, in particular, was a fast dresser, hairdresser, makeup artist, tooth-brushing, coffee-making, 911 calling-machine.

 

[midwest mama]

Even more amazing, according to Patsy and John's statements, John arose at 5:25 (five minutes before the 5:30 alarm was set to go off) and Patsy arose shortly thereafter while John was in the shower.

She, in particular, was a fast dresser, hairdresser, makeup artist, tooth-brushing, coffee-making, 911 calling-machine.

Yep, agree with that! These time frames are what drive a person crazy trying to believe Patsy was "innocent" of knowing anything about the ransom note, staging, etc.

Her call sounded so sincere, and I can see how that would play into the JDI theory strictly. Then, you look at those crazy time frames, and the fact that the handwriting of the note nearly shrieks, "Patsy Wrote Me", and you're right back to feeling she must have at least been involved.

My mama instinct wants to let Patsy off the hook from the slightest degree of involvement in JB's death, but my common sense instinct says that you have to include her when looking at all the clues.

I think I'm going to have to stick with both JR and PR are involved, with Burke having some responsibility also. :banghead:

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

Why not the counter, indeed? Everything up to the time French arrived to corroborate being led through the house to find the ransom note spread out on the wooden floor next to the kitchen area, is simply a case of "he said, she said". We have absolutely no way of knowing if ANY comments the Ramseys gave as statements of the happenings before Officer French arrived were actual accounts of the events.

Both of the R's greeted French fully clothed and ready for the day at 5:59 am, just 7 minutes after the 911 call was placed. There is no corroboration available from the 911 operator as to where, who, what, etc. was on the other end of that phone, except Patsy, making the call. If Patsy was making that call as part of the whole Fairy Tale, then after she hung up, whoever was there could have doubled over in laughter and John could have said something like, "Now, should we lay out the note on the floor just to add more drama - oh, and while we're at it, lets say I was bent over it in my underwear telling you to call the police, so I can later tell everyone I knew that would be the only way to block the highways and shut down the airlines. I'm pretty important, after all, so I think they'd do all that if they thought someone had JB! They'll buy it all - and never even question how I could have possibly then gone and rechecked the house, and gotten myself all dressed, calm, cool and collected, by the time they arrive."

If this case is one thing for sure, it's a case of jumbled up clues, with no clear way to put them together well enough to solve it - nearly 16 years, and umpteen professional crime investigators later! I guess a note spread out on the floor makes just as much sense as a piece of pineapple showing up in JB's intestine!

Officer French said the basement lights were on when he got there and searched the house.

The Ramsey's had a phone in the basement, in the kitchen on the first floor and one in their third floor office. I don't see Pasty running up or down stairs to answer a phone. So where was the phone on the second floor? And why couldn't Pasty of used it? Just wondering.

Other than door going to the basement (and could be closed off from the rest of the house) the rest of whole house was basically open to each other on all three floors. If the basement door was closed it would of muffled any sound coming from there. So the neighbor hearing a scream, it might not of been heard on third floor. That would keep John asleep and out of the loop for a longer period of time.

Just wondering.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

Why not the counter, indeed? Everything up to the time French arrived to corroborate being led through the house to find the ransom note spread out on the wooden floor next to the kitchen area, is simply a case of "he said, she said". We have absolutely no way of knowing if ANY comments the Ramseys gave as statements of the happenings before Officer French arrived were actual accounts of the events.

Both of the R's greeted French fully clothed and ready for the day at 5:59 am, just 7 minutes after the 911 call was placed. There is no corroboration available from the 911 operator as to where, who, what, etc. was on the other end of that phone, except Patsy, making the call. If Patsy was making that call as part of the whole Fairy Tale, then after she hung up, whoever was there could have doubled over in laughter and John could have said something like, "Now, should we lay out the note on the floor just to add more drama - oh, and while we're at it, lets say I was bent over it in my underwear telling you to call the police, so I can later tell everyone I knew that would be the only way to block the highways and shut down the airlines. I'm pretty important, after all, so I think they'd do all that if they thought someone had JB! They'll buy it all - and never even question how I could have possibly then gone and rechecked the house, and gotten myself all dressed, calm, cool and collected, by the time they arrive."

If this case is one thing for sure, it's a case of jumbled up clues, with no clear way to put them together well enough to solve it - nearly 16 years, and umpteen professional crime investigators later! I guess a note spread out on the floor makes just as much sense as a piece of pineapple showing up in JB's intestine!

John Ramsey went from on the floor in his underwear to the third floor getting dressed and back down in seven minutes,

 

[BOESP]

Yep, agree with that! These time frames are what drive a person crazy trying to believe Patsy was "innocent" of knowing anything about the ransom note, staging, etc.

Her call sounded so sincere, and I can see how that would play into the JDI theory strictly. Then, you look at those crazy time frames, and the fact that the handwriting of the note nearly shrieks, "Patsy Wrote Me", and you're right back to feeling she must have at least been involved.

My mama instinct wants to let Patsy off the hook from the slightest degree of involvement in JB's death, but my common sense instinct says that you have to include her when looking at all the clues.

I think I'm going to have to stick with both JR and PR are involved, with Burke having some responsibility also. :banghead:

I figure that anyone who can prance across a stage in a bathing suit in front of the entire United States via television and several hundred people in person, well, they probably have the guts to do whatever they need to do.

I figure a married man who goes out with other women behind his wife's back has the guts to do anything.

 

[txsvicki]

I need to go back and read when patsy first says the note was on the stairs. She may have had it on the floor and john really didn't handle it and just crouched to read after checking burke and getting dressed. He could have taken patsy's word for it before reading and the stories changed after getting attorneys.