Knowing all you know today about this case who do you think really killed JonBenet?

[DeeDee249]

To me John Ramsey is the strongest suspect.

We can glean from the evidence that one of the Ramseys is responsible for JBR's death.

A 9 year old killing a 6 year old and then the parents covering up in a such a weird way is highly unlikely.

I think the only reasonable theory is that John had been sexually abusing JBR and something went awry on Christmas night. My guess is she was difficult and he angrily shove/threw her against a bed/dresser corner or maybe a wall that night. That was the blow that killed her and then the garrot was made to deceive.

John was 36 when he married 23 yr old Patsy so this indicated he was attracted to much younger than his own age, though to get to age 6 is still a stretch, but the beauty pageants and the name "Jon-Benet" might help connect a few dots. Patsy didn't want to be a husbandless single mom and she didn't want others to know she allowed John to molest JBR so she helped cover it up...even writing the ransom note.

I don't think there's any good reason John would cover for Patsy if she had done it alone.

BUT the almost 10 year old had a 23 year old half-brother.

 

[midwest mama]

JB was NEVER placed inside the suitcase and I am not going to explain AGAIN why. If the fibers WERE sourced to the duvet, it points all the more solidly to the molestation involving one or both of JR's sons.

DeeDee, are you making reference to JB not being placed inside the suitcase because of the blanching and livor patterns? There was a statement (by Steve Thomas - see my post #1457 on this thread) that say the duvet fibers were found on JB. To my knowledge the question of the CBI vs. FBI reports on the validation of the fibers being on JB have never been completely authenticated. IIRC, there was also one of JB's hairs found inside the suitcase, as well as fibers from the suitcase lining found on JB.

Why would it not have been possible for someone to THINK JB was dead from the head bash, put her in the suitcase to carry her somewhere else in the house for more of the staging, then take her out back out?

I share your skepticism about JAR. Even though he was officially cleared of suspicion, because of the family private planes and his friend Millard also being a pilot, and the number of lies that have been prevalent in the case, I think it possible there was an error in clearing him. But if he has a totally airclad alibi, then I have to look at JR, because of his shirt fibers.
Problem is, why wouldn't it have been possible for JAR to also have a shirt like that? An nice Christmas gift from father to son perhaps?

And I think that excluding some of the possible RN writers might also have been errors, based on the fact that there were not enough exemplars submitted by some of the possible suspects, or some random samples used for comparisons as well, in order to establish a possibility of other samples also displaying similarities to the note.

Here is a drawing done that would demonstrate how JB could have been placed in the suitcase:

 

[summerthyme]

Something happened when the 911 call was made, and I do not believe that involved JR, but I do believe it involved BR and possibly one or more of his friends. He was said to have a lot of friends. His age means nothing to me having had a nephew molested by some very young boys when he was 6 1/2.

I think that things escalated the night JB was killed and it hurt, so she screamed. The flashlight may have been used during the molestation so that a light would not be seen, so it was handy to hit her over the head with when she screamed. If it was the weapon, it explains why it was wiped down. Why would you wipe a flashlight down unless it was part of the crime, but it may have been the only flashlight they had, and they needed it in getting rid of evidence, etc. so it was wiped down instead of gotten rid of.

I have compared a lot of photos of the Anthony's demeanor and facial expressions to the Ramsey's, and they are hauntingly similar. A show "Lie To Me" showed how the face can never lie, and certain expressions are universal in showing fear, rage, hiding something, lying, etc. The Anthonys did not want to lose another child even though they knew that child murdered their beloved granddaughter. You have a perfect example of how a couple will act and how they will lie and how their demeanor seems detached from the beloved murdered victim. I find the expressions of these two sets of parents and the detachment they show toward the murdered child to be hauntingly similar.

MOO

 

[DeeDee249]

DeeDee, are you making reference to JB not being placed inside the suitcase because of the blanching and livor patterns? There was a statement (by Steve Thomas - see my post #1457 on this thread) that say the duvet fibers were found on JB. To my knowledge the question of the CBI vs. FBI reports on the validation of the fibers being on JB have never been completely authenticated. IIRC, there was also one of JB's hairs found inside the suitcase, as well as fibers from the suitcase lining found on JB.

Why would it not have been possible for someone to THINK JB was dead from the head bash, put her in the suitcase to carry her somewhere else in the house for more of the staging, then take her out back out?

I share your skepticism about JAR. Even though he was officially cleared of suspicion, because of the family private planes and his friend Millard also being a pilot, and the number of lies that have been prevalent in the case, I think it possible there was an error in clearing him. But if he has a totally airclad alibi, then I have to look at JR, because of his shirt fibers.
Problem is, why wouldn't it have been possible for JAR to also have a shirt like that? An nice Christmas gift from father to son perhaps?

And I think that excluding some of the possible RN writers might also have been errors, based on the fact that there were not enough exemplars submitted by some of the possible suspects, or some random samples used for comparisons as well, in order to establish a possibility of other samples also displaying similarities to the note.

Here is a drawing done that would demonstrate how JB could have been placed in the suitcase:

View attachment 29772

Haven't seen much made of her hair inside the suitcase, though I have seen that before. That, plus the fibers, would be a BIG deal, IMO. So it puzzles me why Kolar didn't say anything. However, since the case is still open, this may be among evidence that has been kept from the public for the most part.
Livor and rigor prove she was not in the suitcase after death. Before..? I suppose, but I wonder why they would have taken her out again? I just don't think she was in that suitcase. The urine stains on the basement carpet combined with the urine stains on the FRONT of her clothes indicate she died there, on the carpeted area of the floor just outside the wine cellar, right next to the paint tote. Broken paintbrush shards there also indicate the brush was broken right there, and it is likely the garrote was made right there as she lay on the floor on her stomach.
As far as the hair and duvet fibers....it is possible that the duvet was spread out on the floor, and JR was lying on top of it with her abuser- possibly looking at the Dr Seuss book to distract/calm her. If I were the police, I's have wanted to test the duvet for evidence of fibers from the carpet as well.

 

[dodie20]

Haven't seen much made of her hair inside the suitcase, though I have seen that before. That, plus the fibers, would be a BIG deal, IMO. So it puzzles me why Kolar didn't say anything. However, since the case is still open, this may be among evidence that has been kept from the public for the most part.
Livor and rigor prove she was not in the suitcase after death. Before..? I suppose, but I wonder why they would have taken her out again? I just don't think she was in that suitcase. The urine stains on the basement carpet combined with the urine stains on the FRONT of her clothes indicate she died there, on the carpeted area of the floor just outside the wine cellar, right next to the paint tote. Broken paintbrush shards there also indicate the brush was broken right there, and it is likely the garrote was made right there as she lay on the floor on her stomach.
As far as the hair and duvet fibers....it is possible that the duvet was spread out on the floor, and JR was lying on top of it with her abuser- possibly looking at the Dr Seuss book to distract/calm her. If I were the police, I's have wanted to test the duvet for evidence of fibers from the carpet as well.

I'm so lost right now with all of this, so correct me if I'm going down the wrong path. Was it Jar's bathroom that was used for the hair coloring? And there were suitcases on his bed, right? This duvet belonged to him too. Was the comforter that went underneath found? What about the pillow that went into the sham? Because from where I'm reading, it looks like there was a lot of activity in that room. Did PR say why she was using Jar's room as a packing room? Also, if she was packing for the cruise, why NOT use the samsonite? It was a nice, upscale piece of luggage more suited to JR than a college guy anyway. They normally carry duffle bags etc. Personality wise though, if he was anything like his father, he might have preferred the samsonite. moo

 

[midwest mama]

I'm so lost right now with all of this, so correct me if I'm going down the wrong path. Was it Jar's bathroom that was used for the hair coloring? And there were suitcases on his bed, right? This duvet belonged to him too. Was the comforter that went underneath found? What about the pillow that went into the sham? Because from where I'm reading, it looks like there was a lot of activity in that room. Did PR say why she was using Jar's room as a packing room? Also, if she was packing for the cruise, why NOT use the samsonite? It was a nice, upscale piece of luggage more suited to JR than a college guy anyway. They normally carry duffle bags etc. Personality wise though, if he was anything like his father, he might have preferred the samsonite. moo

Let's see if we can work through your questions:

Pg 125 of Kolar's book shows a photo of JB's bathroom with plastic gloves sitting on the sink edge. I know Patsy mentioned coloring her own hair on Christmas day. I assumed she would would have done that in her own bathroom. Patsy also had used JAR's room during her cancer treatment recovery period, but from the testimony I'll post here, it seems she was using JAR's room as a collection/packing place to prepare for the Disney trip, but was gathering things in the laundry area to put into plastic bags to take on the plane to Michigan.
........
Patsy Ramsey Interrogation by Steve Thomas, Tom Trujillo
Also present, Pat Burke, Bryan Morgan, Pete Hoffstrom, Jon Foster
April 30, 1997 - Boulder, Colorado
http://www.jonbenetindexguide.com/1997BPD-Patsy-Interview-Complete.htm


TT: Okay. Where were you packing the suitcases there?
PR: Um, the suitcases for the cruise I think I was packing in John Andrew’s room which is that room up on the same area as JonBenet’s room.
TT: Um hum.
PR: With the black bedspread on it.
TT: Okay. That’s John Andrew’s room?
PR: Yeah.
TT: Okay.
PR: We refer to it as his room.
TT: Um hum.
PR: Um, the guest room, whatever. Um, I had two or three black suitcases in there and I think I had my suitcase up in my dressing room. . .
TT: Okay.
PR: . . .packing.
TT: And were you packing suitcases for the trip to the lake separately or was that all together?
PR: No, it’s not together.
TT: Okay.
PR: Those were two separate trips. The lake I think I was just packing a plastic bag.
TT: Okay.
PR: Because we have clothes up at the lake and uh, just taking a few. . .
TT: Okay, where, was, where were you packing the plastic bag at?
PR: Um, if I remember right, I think it was uh, in the laundry room area, right outside JonBenet’s room.


TT: Okay. Did John help you get packed up at all?
PR: Uh, he, I believe, put some presents in the, in the Jeep.
TT: Okay. But he didn’t. . .
PR: Not the clothes.
TT: . . .pack his own clothes or anything like that?
PR: Oh, he probably would have packed his own clothes (inaudible) stuff.
TT: Okay. And do you know where he had that suitcase at that he packed his clothes at? Was that in the uh, John Andrew’s room?
PR: Um, no. It would, it would have been in his probably.
TT: Okay.
PR: I, I think I just had a couple of suitcase, the kids suitcases on the bed there, Burke’s and JonBenet’s.
TT: Okay. So you had Burke’s and JonBenet’s suitcases in John Andrew’s room, your suitcase was upstairs and John’s would have been upstairs too then.
PR: The best that I can remember, yeah.


TT: Okay. What did Burke do when you got home then.
PR: Um, I don’t remember exactly, but I think he went to go play with something. I think maybe he and John were fussing with something. A toy he wanted to put together or something.
TT: Okay.
PR: I was trying to finish putting together things for in the morning and. . .
TT: Okay. Finish kind of packing, again the suitcases on the bed. Were they all finished, packed up?
PR: Um, probably pretty close to it.
TT: Okay. And then the close to go to Charlevoix those were. . .
PR: Right.
TT: . . .in a plastic bag.
PR: Plastic bag. Um hum.
TT: And they were already to go? You said you carried down to (inaudible).
PR: Yeah.
.........

The duvet found in the suitcase has never, to my knowledge, been defined as to whether it was just the cover, which goes over the fluffy comforter part, or both the layers. A duvet is known to be described both ways, and it has been a point of speculation here before.

However, the sham, should be just that. No pillow. Here's an interesting tidbit from Dr. Lee:

This is from ITRMI in reference to Henry Lee.

Then we showed him photos of the crime scene.“Wait,” Lee said.“The pillow in the kitchen in this picture doesn’t show up in that one. Why?”

Hope this answers some of your questions. Here's one I have: What could the plastic gloves on the sink counter have been used for?

 

[UKGuy]

Let's see if we can work through your questions:

Pg 125 of Kolar's book shows a photo of JB's bathroom with plastic gloves sitting on the sink edge. I know Patsy mentioned coloring her own hair on Christmas day. I assumed she would would have done that in her own bathroom. Patsy also had used JAR's room during her cancer treatment recovery period, but from the testimony I'll post here, it seems she was using JAR's room as a collection/packing place to prepare for the Disney trip, but was gathering things in the laundry area to put into plastic bags to take on the plane to Michigan.
........
Patsy Ramsey Interrogation by Steve Thomas, Tom Trujillo
Also present, Pat Burke, Bryan Morgan, Pete Hoffstrom, Jon Foster
April 30, 1997 - Boulder, Colorado
http://www.jonbenetindexguide.com/1997BPD-Patsy-Interview-Complete.htm


TT: Okay. Where were you packing the suitcases there?
PR: Um, the suitcases for the cruise I think I was packing in John Andrew’s room which is that room up on the same area as JonBenet’s room.
TT: Um hum.
PR: With the black bedspread on it.
TT: Okay. That’s John Andrew’s room?
PR: Yeah.
TT: Okay.
PR: We refer to it as his room.
TT: Um hum.
PR: Um, the guest room, whatever. Um, I had two or three black suitcases in there and I think I had my suitcase up in my dressing room. . .
TT: Okay.
PR: . . .packing.
TT: And were you packing suitcases for the trip to the lake separately or was that all together?
PR: No, it’s not together.
TT: Okay.
PR: Those were two separate trips. The lake I think I was just packing a plastic bag.
TT: Okay.
PR: Because we have clothes up at the lake and uh, just taking a few. . .
TT: Okay, where, was, where were you packing the plastic bag at?
PR: Um, if I remember right, I think it was uh, in the laundry room area, right outside JonBenet’s room.


TT: Okay. Did John help you get packed up at all?
PR: Uh, he, I believe, put some presents in the, in the Jeep.
TT: Okay. But he didn’t. . .
PR: Not the clothes.
TT: . . .pack his own clothes or anything like that?
PR: Oh, he probably would have packed his own clothes (inaudible) stuff.
TT: Okay. And do you know where he had that suitcase at that he packed his clothes at? Was that in the uh, John Andrew’s room?
PR: Um, no. It would, it would have been in his probably.
TT: Okay.
PR: I, I think I just had a couple of suitcase, the kids suitcases on the bed there, Burke’s and JonBenet’s.
TT: Okay. So you had Burke’s and JonBenet’s suitcases in John Andrew’s room, your suitcase was upstairs and John’s would have been upstairs too then.
PR: The best that I can remember, yeah.


TT: Okay. What did Burke do when you got home then.
PR: Um, I don’t remember exactly, but I think he went to go play with something. I think maybe he and John were fussing with something. A toy he wanted to put together or something.
TT: Okay.
PR: I was trying to finish putting together things for in the morning and. . .
TT: Okay. Finish kind of packing, again the suitcases on the bed. Were they all finished, packed up?
PR: Um, probably pretty close to it.
TT: Okay. And then the close to go to Charlevoix those were. . .
PR: Right.
TT: . . .in a plastic bag.
PR: Plastic bag. Um hum.
TT: And they were already to go? You said you carried down to (inaudible).
PR: Yeah.
.........

The duvet found in the suitcase has never, to my knowledge, been defined as to whether it was just the cover, which goes over the fluffy comforter part, or both the layers. A duvet is known to be described both ways, and it has been a point of speculation here before.

However, the sham, should be just that. No pillow. Here's an interesting tidbit from Dr. Lee:

This is from ITRMI in reference to Henry Lee.

Then we showed him photos of the crime scene.“Wait,” Lee said.“The pillow in the kitchen in this picture doesn’t show up in that one. Why?”

Hope this answers some of your questions. Here's one I have: What could the plastic gloves on the sink counter have been used for?

midwest mama,
After my first semester at University I learned to take both duvet and duvet cover with me, since when you return you do not know who has been using the bed-linen on your bed. Since Universities have conferences and events taking place outwith term time.

.

 

[UKGuy]

I'm so lost right now with all of this, so correct me if I'm going down the wrong path. Was it Jar's bathroom that was used for the hair coloring? And there were suitcases on his bed, right? This duvet belonged to him too. Was the comforter that went underneath found? What about the pillow that went into the sham? Because from where I'm reading, it looks like there was a lot of activity in that room. Did PR say why she was using Jar's room as a packing room? Also, if she was packing for the cruise, why NOT use the samsonite? It was a nice, upscale piece of luggage more suited to JR than a college guy anyway. They normally carry duffle bags etc. Personality wise though, if he was anything like his father, he might have preferred the samsonite. moo

dodie20,
ITA. Its JR's suitcase that has gone missing. If you follow Patsy's replies she does not want to discuss that topic.

The critical thing is are the fibers on the sham and duvet really on JonBenet or is this an understandable mistake, if not then along with Patsy's reticence to discuss the suitcase topic, something is going on here!


.

 

[Darlene733510]

I know it was late when they came home from the dinner, but I wonder if Patsy was going to touch up JB's hair, and that would require plastic gloves. Her hair was sectioned off by the elastic hair ties. Maybe she just wanted to touch up the roots before the trip, and JB was tired and cranky - was there an altercation in the bathroom that caused the head injury?
I wonder what toys BR received for Christmas -maybe something JB wanted to play with and he didn't want to share......could he have struck her with something?
Back to a lot of the same old questions, but whatever, and whomever caused that head injury is driving me BONKERS!!
Then there is JR - it wouldn't be the first time a Father sexually molested his child, if he did it, and if it was found out, his prestigious standing in the community and his career would be down the drain, and probably a prison sentence. Was that the reason for all the cover up, and conflicting statements? He had the most to lose - BR would be protected because of his age, and PR was going to die anyway, so he is at the top of my list right now.
I sure would like to hear from FW, and his silence through the years is another big part of this story. He was suspicious of JR, it seemed, at first and then it all just faded away. Why?

 

[Nom de plume]

I know it was late when they came home from the dinner, but I wonder if Patsy was going to touch up JB's hair, and that would require plastic gloves. Her hair was sectioned off by the elastic hair ties. Maybe she just wanted to touch up the roots before the trip, and JB was tired and cranky - was there an altercation in the bathroom that caused the head injury?
I wonder what toys BR received for Christmas -maybe something JB wanted to play with and he didn't want to share......could he have struck her with something?
Back to a lot of the same old questions, but whatever, and whomever caused that head injury is driving me BONKERS!!
Then there is JR - it wouldn't be the first time a Father sexually molested his child, if he did it, and if it was found out, his prestigious standing in the community and his career would be down the drain, and probably a prison sentence. Was that the reason for all the cover up, and conflicting statements? He had the most to lose - BR would be protected because of his age, and PR was going to die anyway, so he is at the top of my list right now.
I sure would like to hear from FW, and his silence through the years is another big part of this story. He was suspicious of JR, it seemed, at first and then it all just faded away. Why?

My guess is some pretty serious threats.

 

[DeeDee249]

I'm so lost right now with all of this, so correct me if I'm going down the wrong path. Was it Jar's bathroom that was used for the hair coloring? And there were suitcases on his bed, right? This duvet belonged to him too. Was the comforter that went underneath found? What about the pillow that went into the sham? Because from where I'm reading, it looks like there was a lot of activity in that room. Did PR say why she was using Jar's room as a packing room? Also, if she was packing for the cruise, why NOT use the samsonite? It was a nice, upscale piece of luggage more suited to JR than a college guy anyway. They normally carry duffle bags etc. Personality wise though, if he was anything like his father, he might have preferred the samsonite. moo

The duvet has never been clearly described. Some people call a comforter a "duvet"- JAR's may have been a comforter and not a true duvet. Some people call just the removable COVER a "duvet" and some people call the filler AND the cover a "duvet". We just don't know for sure.
We also don't know where JB had her hair colored, but she did have her own bathroom. The coroner made a special note of JB's hair as having been "freshly colored". JB's hair wasn't dyed- it was highlighted. The coroner made his determination based on whether her darker "roots" were EVENLY visible. Every hair on a person's scalp doesn't grow at the EXACT same rate. When the coroner noted her hair was freshly colored, he also added "evenly". This means that her hair had not had time to grow out at the roots.

 

[DeeDee249]

I know it was late when they came home from the dinner, but I wonder if Patsy was going to touch up JB's hair, and that would require plastic gloves. Her hair was sectioned off by the elastic hair ties. Maybe she just wanted to touch up the roots before the trip, and JB was tired and cranky - was there an altercation in the bathroom that caused the head injury?
I wonder what toys BR received for Christmas -maybe something JB wanted to play with and he didn't want to share......could he have struck her with something?
Back to a lot of the same old questions, but whatever, and whomever caused that head injury is driving me BONKERS!!
Then there is JR - it wouldn't be the first time a Father sexually molested his child, if he did it, and if it was found out, his prestigious standing in the community and his career would be down the drain, and probably a prison sentence. Was that the reason for all the cover up, and conflicting statements? He had the most to lose - BR would be protected because of his age, and PR was going to die anyway, so he is at the top of my list right now.
I sure would like to hear from FW, and his silence through the years is another big part of this story. He was suspicious of JR, it seemed, at first and then it all just faded away. Why?

I mentioned her hairstyle in another thread. No one would section off hair for coloring like that. For one, you'd never leave a fabric hair tie or elastic to section it- you'd use clips. For another- the ponytails pull the hair close to the scalp- preventing color from reaching the roots. No one makes a ponytail at the nape of the neck to color hair.

 

[midwest mama]

Just this past couple of weeks, in reading through Bardach's Vanity Fair report, and Singular's Book, "Presumed Guity", there was commentary about unexplained navy blue fuzzballs being found on JB's body.
Would this equate to the fibers that have been thought to be from a 'wiping towel/cloth', or has there been speculation that they could be from JR's navy terry bathrobe which was found in an odd location?

I would think the 'wiping/cleansing towel' would have been disposed of, which could not provide a forensic identification, whereas JR's bathrobe could have been tested, to prove it was not a link to the fuzzballs.

 

[UKGuy]

Just this past couple of weeks, in reading through Bardach's Vanity Fair report, and Singular's Book, "Presumed Guity", there was commentary about unexplained navy blue fuzzballs being found on JB's body.
Would this equate to the fibers that have been thought to be from a 'wiping towel/cloth', or has there been speculation that they could be from JR's navy terry bathrobe which was found in an odd location?

I would think the 'wiping/cleansing towel' would have been disposed of, which could not provide a forensic identification, whereas JR's bathrobe could have been tested, to prove it was not a link to the fuzzballs.

midwest mama,
I think you are correct on both assumptions. It was alleged that the fibers noted by Coroner Meyer were attributed to the shirt John Ramsey wore the night of the White's party.

.

 

[OpenMind4U]

...and based on cynic post in 'suitcase' thread - now we know that BOTH SIDES of JB's shirt have non-identifiable fibers!!!!!! I don't know about you guys - but for me it was like WOW!!!! It means JB was redressed fully, including shirt!....JMO I'm telling you, sometimes I feel like shoting the moving target with this case...nothing is stable and nothing could be relay on it...CRAZY!!!!!

 

[dodie20]

I just thought of something related to this thread topic. JR has long pointed suspicion on to FW. Well, the Rs were at his house with him and his family, so FW couldn't have been hiding in wait in the Rs house. For the last couple of weeks, a lot of IDI supporters have been pointing this way and that, so I've kind of been focusing on ways to debunk some of those theories. Now theoretically, someone could map out a timeline, showing how it was possible that after the Rs left the party, FW rushed to their house, broke a window, wrote the note and then hid...but this would be possible in theory only. No jury would buy it. moo

 

[BOESP]

The sourced evidence located in the crotch section of the size 12 underwear JonBenet had been dressed in - fibers from the black wool shirt John Ramsey had been wearing to the Whites' party - links John to the staging of the scene (and possibly to more than staging!):

I was surprised that in his book, Kolar doesn't especially mention these crucial shirt fibers, although he does point out (on p. 179/180) that the year 2000 Atlanta interviews had been arranged to explore whether the Ramseys had any explanation for some of the evidence that placed them under suspicion.

BBM. Bumping this for reference due to current interest in black fiber evidence.

 

[questfortrue]

I'm not sure I'm on the right thread. (I'm a newbie so not sure how all my thoughts tie into one post about perps.) Try as I might, I cannot “normalize” by any theories the behavior of either parent. Who would not call 911 when a child is found unconscious; I’m not sure I grasp how one could sacrifice one’s child (by not calling 911) to protect the other child suspected of the head blow. While the Kolar book builds a strong case for abnormal juvenile behavior, it still doesn’t explain the absence of a call for an ambulance to me, if they were such a normal, Christian family as the R’s profess. Mmo.
I also can’t go to any “entire staging role” on the part of BR, especially as some of the autopsy experts noted the 90 minute+ time variance from the head blow to the subsequent strangulation. And also taking into account the fibre evidence found on the cord and inside the panties of JB.
In my amateur’s viewpoint, PR could have begun the staging to cover someone’s (hers or BR’s involvement) in the head blow, but have then enlisted JR’s help. I can imagine a scenario whereby there was an involuntary muscle movement on the part of JB, even though unconscious and dying. Though rare, it does happen in dying individuals. This might have caused PR to lose heart or freak after she created the cord (the cord with all the fibres from her jacket) around JB’s neck. JR takes over, completes the strangulation, cleans, utilizes a paintbrush for indication of a sex crime, and redresses JB (in the size 12 bloomies) while PR completes the ransom letter. (I hark back to the FBI who said there were 2 killers). While PR was very intelligent, she was also highly emotional and the detail work in clean up a crime scene I still tend to attribute to someone with executive/take charge skills. All this moo.
Kolar utilizes a lot of psychological profiling in attempting to provide a reason for the staging. He restates the comment of PR, IIRC: “I could not bear to lose BR, too. I’d have nothing to live for.” He believes that this provides the motivation for PR’s and JR’s involvement in staging. I turned that statement around to potentially mean that she feared her own arrest, and/or BR would be removed from the home by child protective services, even if he were innocent of a head blow.
Frequently my spouse will use a flashlight , in consideration of not waking me up by turning on a light. I can imagine that PR might have been utilizing the flashlight for that reason and discovered something in JB’s bedroom which triggered her rage. I’m not convinced it all took place downstairs.
Another wild card: The scream. If it really happened, was it simply from a sexual assault (which had happened before), or was it a scream in terror, because someone was in a rage and threatening mayhem.“
As far as JR goes, with PR deceased, what motivation is there to write another “I’m a recovering victim” book. I’m sure LW is always ready to attack anyone who ever says anything publicly about what they know, but I cannot help but be reminded of one famous Tour de France winner who used his money and legal team to sue and ruin the lives of so many people who had once befriended him. Remind anyone of any family who threatened lawsuits against people who were perhaps telling the truth? As always, moo.

 

[UKGuy]

I'm not sure I'm on the right thread. (I'm a newbie so not sure how all my thoughts tie into one post about perps.) Try as I might, I cannot “normalize” by any theories the behavior of either parent. Who would not call 911 when a child is found unconscious; I’m not sure I grasp how one could sacrifice one’s child (by not calling 911) to protect the other child suspected of the head blow. While the Kolar book builds a strong case for abnormal juvenile behavior, it still doesn’t explain the absence of a call for an ambulance to me, if they were such a normal, Christian family as the R’s profess. Mmo.
I also can’t go to any “entire staging role” on the part of BR, especially as some of the autopsy experts noted the 90 minute+ time variance from the head blow to the subsequent strangulation. And also taking into account the fibre evidence found on the cord and inside the panties of JB.
In my amateur’s viewpoint, PR could have begun the staging to cover someone’s (hers or BR’s involvement) in the head blow, but have then enlisted JR’s help. I can imagine a scenario whereby there was an involuntary muscle movement on the part of JB, even though unconscious and dying. Though rare, it does happen in dying individuals. This might have caused PR to lose heart or freak after she created the cord (the cord with all the fibres from her jacket) around JB’s neck. JR takes over, completes the strangulation, cleans, utilizes a paintbrush for indication of a sex crime, and redresses JB (in the size 12 bloomies) while PR completes the ransom letter. (I hark back to the FBI who said there were 2 killers). While PR was very intelligent, she was also highly emotional and the detail work in clean up a crime scene I still tend to attribute to someone with executive/take charge skills. All this moo.
Kolar utilizes a lot of psychological profiling in attempting to provide a reason for the staging. He restates the comment of PR, IIRC: “I could not bear to lose BR, too. I’d have nothing to live for.” He believes that this provides the motivation for PR’s and JR’s involvement in staging. I turned that statement around to potentially mean that she feared her own arrest, and/or BR would be removed from the home by child protective services, even if he were innocent of a head blow.
Frequently my spouse will use a flashlight , in consideration of not waking me up by turning on a light. I can imagine that PR might have been utilizing the flashlight for that reason and discovered something in JB’s bedroom which triggered her rage. I’m not convinced it all took place downstairs.
Another wild card: The scream. If it really happened, was it simply from a sexual assault (which had happened before), or was it a scream in terror, because someone was in a rage and threatening mayhem.“
As far as JR goes, with PR deceased, what motivation is there to write another “I’m a recovering victim” book. I’m sure LW is always ready to attack anyone who ever says anything publicly about what they know, but I cannot help but be reminded of one famous Tour de France winner who used his money and legal team to sue and ruin the lives of so many people who had once befriended him. Remind anyone of any family who threatened lawsuits against people who were perhaps telling the truth? As always, moo.

questfortrue,
There arrives a point when the issues you outline crystalize into a theory. One of the R's did sexually molest JonBenet, one of the R's did deny her medical assistance, one of the R's did asphyxiate JonBenet, one of the R's did dump her into the wine-cellar and close door, fully prepared the next day to fly away interstate.

The main theories, i.e. JDI, PDI, BDI, and JDI+PDI are about the only common sense options.

To avoid PDI+JDI some invoke an individual JDI who fools even PR with his staging, PDI+JDI can be invoked to cover for either or both parents, as they are obviously colluding, and lastly PDI+JDI can be invoked as they cover for BR, which assumes BDI.

The two items in this case that have had no satisfactory theory proposed are the head injury and the sexual assault, since some see the sexual assault as staging and others, including myself see the head injury as failed staging.

The most likely correct theory is PDI. The most consistent theory is BDI. The most stereotypical theory is JDI, i.e. incestuous predator.


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[BOESP]

Here is a link to Colorado Human Services, Child Protective Services, with a definition of child abuse under Colorado code.

http://humanservices.mesacounty.us/FCS/template.aspx?id=2090