Knowing all you know today about this case who do you think really killed JonBenet?

[azwriter]

For those who believe JonBenet died outside the Ramsey house and was brought home dead, can I add one word?

Fresh Pineapple. Okay, that's two words but you get the idea.

 

[PrincessSezMe]

I can't believe ANYONE is still taking that DNA seriously. The coroner used UNSTERILE clippers on her nails. He ADMITTED this. That DNA has to be completely discounted. It could belong to the previous corpse the coroner autopsied. There is NO evidence whatsoever that JB scratched anyone. None. There was NO blood under her nails.

DeeDee249 - DA Mary Lacy really sealed the deal with her total ignorance of the real interpretation of the "new" DNA evidence didn't she? There was not enough foreign DNA found to pin this on an outside intruder. Not only that, the DNA markers were not even within the acceptable range required to be 100% sure of a match. Thirteen markers are required in order to make 100% match to anyone with 100% certainty. IIRC the most they had was nine markers....not enough. And there was such a SMALL amount of DNA found. These weren't huge bloodspots or anthing. Merely a drop or a small smear found on various items on or near her body. If this was the vicious assault it appeared to be, someone's DNA would have been all over JonBenet IMO. The few samples that were found just don't back that up. Many people said that Mary Lacy misspoke when she completely exhonerated the R's from any involvement in JonBenet's death based on that alone. Investigators who have spent countless hours on this case must have heaved a collective sigh. :shakehead:

I keep going back to the family's behavior, and that speaks more to me than anything. I don't want to hear how "everyone handles things differently" and "everyone grieves differently". I had WAY too much of that BS with Casey Anthony. I watch videos of the R's interviews, and read their quotes in the media, and to me they come across as very deceptive. I've said this before and I'll say it again, John Ramsey has Never come across as a grieving parent....NEVER. Patsy a bit more so, but still not being truthful. I've read statement analysis of those interviews that backs that up.

There was too much other physical and circumstancial evidence that pointed at the perpetrator being someone in that house. DNA evidence is not always the evidence that makes the case. MOO

 

[Tadpole12]

Heyya DeeDee

Sorry- that source is known for its lies. I don't care who she talked to.

Alright.
Just posting a source that could support anyhoo's time frame, for primary crime scene as location other than Ramsey home.

The coroner who actually did the autopsy said that it was eaten about 2 hours before she died.
Food does not "leap frog" over other food in the digestive tract. It moves through in the order in which it was eaten. In JB, the "soft green fecal material" in her large intestine would have been anything she ate earlier that day, including anything eaten at the White's. There was nothing in her stomach, and the pineapple was found in the small intestine, which the stomach empties into.

The info that I was looking to post, ( but couldn't source at the time,
I, of course, eventually found at candyrose), was the information about the pineapple rind:

http://www.acandyrose.com/s-evidence-pineapple.htm

ST Page 102

"Our experts studied the pinapple in the stomach and reported that it was fresh-cut pineapple, consistent down to the rind which what was found in the bowl."

 

[Tadpole12]

Heyya Anyhoo,

A question.
Is then, your theory contingent? upon expanding the time frame for digestion, considering possibility that the pineapple was eaten at the Ramsey's home shortly before leaving for the White?.

 

[UKGuy]

Before you could consider that the R's were part of a cult, you would have to believe that such a thing were possible. You obviously don't and I am not trying to convince you. What I am trying to do is to keep an open mind about this and consider that possibility and to look at how that possibility matches this case. If you won't look at it, hopefully someone else reading this post will consider it.

As for the DNA evidence, its a lot stronger than you suggest. Do research on recent developments in the case. The new DA recently apologized to JR for the BPD accusing him after they found a tenth DNA marker that excluded him from being the person behind the DNA. So you have an unknown stranger's DNA under JBR's fingernails and possibly the same DNA found in her underpants that may have come from a cough or sneeze from the same person. Either way, there is something there and you cannot just dismiss it and pretend it does not exist.

Anyhoo,
What you completely fail to take into account, is that your unknown stranger's DNA may have arrived at the Autopsy Stage, and that you are a victim of Ramsey Spin. Big Time!

Before you weave theories using the unknown stranger's DNA you really do have to demonstrate that it is linked with the death of JonBenet.

There were lots of other DNA found on JonBenet, including no doubt, that of Burke Ramsey. Have you seen this reported anywhere, ever considered why not? Answers on a postcard please.


.

 

[UKGuy]

Heyya Anyhoo,

A question.
Is then, your theory contingent? upon expanding the time frame for digestion, considering possibility that the pineapple was eaten at the Ramsey's home shortly before leaving for the White?.

Tadpole12,
Not possible, the pinapple lay above that, in JonBenet's digestive tract, which she consumed at the White's.

She was killed in her own house by a Ramsey, shortly after eating pineapple, which had not been fully digested. Pinapple has one of the fastest digestive times.

The real question should be: Was JonBenet sexually assaulted or was this a part of a prior staging.

I think she was sexually assaulted, otherwise why bother wiping her down and hiding it all beneath a layer of clothing, including the red flag of size-12's?

Was it BR who redressed JonBenet in the size-12's, did he find them when he and JonBenet went looking for more Christmas and birthday gifts in the basement?


.

 

[DeeDee249]

Heyya Anyhoo,

A question.
Is then, your theory contingent? upon expanding the time frame for digestion, considering possibility that the pineapple was eaten at the Ramsey's home shortly before leaving for the White?.

I have explained this so many times that I hope I never have to explain it AGAIN. Even people without a lot of medical understanding can understand this:
Food does not "leap frog" over other food in the digestive tract! Food is digested in the order it was eaten. The pineapple was the LAST thing eaten. The "soft green fecal material" mentioned in the autopsy was what remained of whatever she ate at the White's or earlier in the day. It has already been digested and processed for excretion, and had it been further own, it would have been released at her death just as her urine was. The pineapple had not been completely digested yet and had not yet been reduced to feces.
And it is very vexing (I love that word, don't you?) when people ignore SCIENCE just because they have a theory they want it to fit.
The pineapple took about 2 hours to reach her small intestine from her stomach. The stomach is the FIRST stop- then on to the small intestine, large intestine, colon, and rectum for excretion. This FACT remains a FACT whether you are IDI or RDI.
Please remember this the next time someone suggests she ate the pineapple before going to the White's.
The pineapple was found in the small intestine. FACT. She ate it approximately 2 hours before her death. FACT. Some of it was still identifiable, and it matched the pineapple found IN THE BOWL. While we can't prove what time the bowl was put on that table, we CAN prove, and it WAS proved, when she ate the pineapple that was in that bowl. And that was sometime between the arrival home (9-10 PM) and her death (12-1 AM), even allowing for some flexibility on digestive rates. They are FLEXIBLE, not changeable. There is not a vast amount of leeway with that time frame.

 

[dodie20]

yes, this pineapple, just like the pineapple found in the bowl in the kitchen of the Rs house, was the LAST thing eaten. The best IDI theorists can come up with, is that the intruder fed it to JB. I wonder why the Rs didn't try to say that JB might have taken some of the pineapple to the Ws party and ate it sometime after the crab, but before going to sleep. Although farfetched, this story would have made more sense than the total distancing job they did. I mean come on, the last thing JB ate, was right there on their table.

 

[Anyhoo]

Heyya DeeDee



Alright.
Just posting a source that could support anyhoo's time frame, for primary crime scene as location other than Ramsey home.



The info that I was looking to post, ( but couldn't source at the time,
I, of course, eventually found at candyrose), was the information about the pineapple rind:

http://www.acandyrose.com/s-evidence-pineapple.htm

ST Page 102

"Our experts studied the pinapple in the stomach and reported that it was fresh-cut pineapple, consistent down to the rind which what was found in the bowl."

I read that link very carefully, and this is what I infer from it:

1. The R's were given a fruit basket with a fresh pineapple in it. This happened on Christmas day, maybe it was received from one of the two houses they stopped at on the way home.
2. Pineapple was JBR's favorite fruit.
3. JBR wanted to eat the Pineapple when she got home.
4. PR sliced the fresh pineapple for both JBR and Burke and put it in the bowl.
5. JBR ate some of the pineapple.
6. JR and PR clearly lied about JBR being asleep when she got home.
7. JR may have known nothing about the Pineapple but PR clearly did since her fingerprints are on the bowl.
8. Since JR and PR had previously said JBR was asleep after being brought home, neither could acknowledge the Pineapple because it would prove them both to be liars.

 

[Anyhoo]

Heyya Anyhoo,

A question.
Is then, your theory contingent? upon expanding the time frame for digestion, considering possibility that the pineapple was eaten at the Ramsey's home shortly before leaving for the White?.

I admit, Tadpole, that the pineapple evidence makes me believe JBR was alive after coming home from the White's. As I see it, the pineapple pretty much invalidates the theory that JBR died before coming home and was brought back to the house dead. A theory is only as good as the evidence that supports it, and the evidence does not seem to support that in this case. But then again, the bowl of pineapple on the table may have been purposely placed there for the express purpose of supposedly proving that JBR was alive (and awake) after returning. It would take a pretty brilliant mind to think of deceiving to that level, but who knows?

 

[Anyhoo]

Anyhoo,
What you completely fail to take into account, is that your unknown stranger's DNA may have arrived at the Autopsy Stage, and that you are a victim of Ramsey Spin. Big Time!

Before you weave theories using the unknown stranger's DNA you really do have to demonstrate that it is linked with the death of JonBenet.

There were lots of other DNA found on JonBenet, including no doubt, that of Burke Ramsey. Have you seen this reported anywhere, ever considered why not? Answers on a postcard please.


.

I just presented a theory for further discussion. A theory is only as good as the evidence that supports it, and a theory can be disproven by other evidence.

You state that the DNA could be completely false. While this is true, I don't get that sense. I think people are being honest when they say there is DNA present that they cannot identify, and this is one of the main reasons why reasonable doubt was cast on the R's murdering their own daughter.

I don't think I am a victim of R spin at all. If you read my posts, nowhere do I claim the R's are innocent. I have always claimed that they both know what really happened and that they are both lying. That does not mean I see one or both of them as murdering their daughter, but it does mean they are hiding something. Hiding something BIG imo.

I disagree that I have to demonstrate anything in my theory. I only have to state it and see what evidence supports it and see what evidence works against it. I personally believe very strongly that the DNA is directly linked with JBR's death.

 

[DeeDee249]

. But then again, the bowl of pineapple on the table may have been purposely placed there for the express purpose of supposedly proving that JBR was alive (and awake) after returning. It would take a pretty brilliant mind to think of deceiving to that level, but who knows?

Then why say she never woke up? If the Rs staged the pineapple to make it look like she was awake, they SAID just the opposite.
However, BR DID say that his sister walked into the house. IMO, the pineapple was not staged, and I think the Rs were VERY surprised that it was identified at the autopsy. I am sure they never gave it a thought- until police brought it up. Then when it was PROVEN she ate pineapple after she got home, they had no choice but to simply deny knowledge of it.

 

[Anyhoo]

Then why say she never woke up? If the Rs staged the pineapple to make it look like she was awake, they SAID just the opposite.
However, BR DID say that his sister walked into the house. IMO, the pineapple was not staged, and I think the Rs were VERY surprised that it was identified at the autopsy. I am sure they never gave it a thought- until police brought it up. Then when it was PROVEN she ate pineapple after she got home, they had no choice but to simply deny knowledge of it.

I agree the R's had to deny any knowledge of the pineapple bowl because it threatened to prove them as liars to the BPD. IMO the R's lied about a lot of things, and not just about what happened after they returned to their house at night. I think lies were told about the Christmas Party at the White's also and about the trip back to their house from the White's house. If you go back and read the testimonies from all the people involved you will find contradictory testimony. Lies. Secrets. Deception. Why so much of it surrounding this family? What was this family into? A family that seemed so normal on the outside but was anything but normal.

 

[Anyhoo]

There is a question that has been really bothering me about the pineapple.
I read someone's testimony, I believe it was JR's, that JBR loved pineapple and would eat it by the bowl ful. I believe that is very close to the exact words he used. So, think about it. Look at the picture of the pineapple bowl, which, contrary to how it has been described in some places is not a huge serving bowl but is just a large cereal-sized bowl. And notice that it is almost full of pineapple. If we assume that JBR was served this almost full bowl of Pineapple by PR, as appears to be the case, then why didn't she eat it? She loved pineapple and would eat it by the bowl ful. Why was the bowl still full of pineapple? Wouldn't she have ate a lot more of the pineapple from it instead of just a little bit? That does not make sense to me.

 

[dodie20]

There is a question that has been really bothering me about the pineapple.
I read someone's testimony, I believe it was JR's, that JBR loved pineapple and would eat it by the bowl ful. I believe that is very close to the exact words he used. So, think about it. Look at the picture of the pineapple bowl, which, contrary to how it has been described in some places is not a huge serving bowl but is just a large cereal-sized bowl. And notice that it is almost full of pineapple. If we assume that JBR was served this almost full bowl of Pineapple by PR, as appears to be the case, then why didn't she eat it? She loved pineapple and would eat it by the bowl ful. Why was the bowl still full of pineapple? Wouldn't she have ate a lot more of the pineapple from it instead of just a little bit? That does not make sense to me.

It makes sense to me, because IMO, the head bash ended the snack

 

[Anyhoo]

It makes sense to me, because IMO, the head bash ended the snack

If she had died as she was eating the pineapple, her digestion would have stopped at that point and the pineapple would not have been found where it was in her digestive system. It was estimated that there was around a two hour period between the time she ate the pineapple and the time she actually died. So my question still stands. She loved pineapple and is given a bowl of pineapple. According to JR, she eats it by the bowl ful. But in this case she clearly didn't but apparently only took a little bit. Why?

 

[dodie20]

If she had died as she was eating the pineapple, her digestion would have stopped at that point and the pineapple would not have been found where it was in her digestive system. It was estimated that there was around a two hour period between the time she ate the pineapple and the time she actually died. So my question still stands. She loved pineapple and is given a bowl of pineapple. According to JR, she eats it by the bowl ful. But in this case she clearly didn't but apparently only took a little bit. Why?

Imo, the head bash came about 2 hrs before the strangulation that actually killed JBR. That bash was so severe, that it left a gaping hole in her skull. There was no way she could do a thing, much less finish a snack. Who knows, maybe the perp thought she was dead...or maybe not.

 

[midwest mama]

There is a question that has been really bothering me about the pineapple.
I read someone's testimony, I believe it was JR's, that JBR loved pineapple and would eat it by the bowl ful. I believe that is very close to the exact words he used. So, think about it. Look at the picture of the pineapple bowl, which, contrary to how it has been described in some places is not a huge serving bowl but is just a large cereal-sized bowl. And notice that it is almost full of pineapple. If we assume that JBR was served this almost full bowl of Pineapple by PR, as appears to be the case, then why didn't she eat it? She loved pineapple and would eat it by the bowl ful. Why was the bowl still full of pineapple? Wouldn't she have ate a lot more of the pineapple from it instead of just a little bit? That does not make sense to me.

Your question is thought provoking. From the forensics, it's been estimated there was only 30 minutes at most between the time JB ate the fruit and the head bash. So, either there was something that excited her enough to make her leave the pineapple bowl, or she was forced away from the snack by someone for some reason. :sleuth:

 

[SapphireSteel]

Your question is thought provoking. From the forensics, it's been estimated there was only 30 minutes at most between the time JB ate the fruit and the head bash. So, either there was something that excited her enough to make her leave the pineapple bowl, or she was forced away from the snack by someone for some reason. :sleuth:

The fact that Burke left the teabag in the glass unmade also indicates something sudden happened.

What?

Did one get sent to bed and the other get dragged away for "punishment" for some real or imagined offense?

 

[UKGuy]

I just presented a theory for further discussion. A theory is only as good as the evidence that supports it, and a theory can be disproven by other evidence.

You state that the DNA could be completely false. While this is true, I don't get that sense. I think people are being honest when they say there is DNA present that they cannot identify, and this is one of the main reasons why reasonable doubt was cast on the R's murdering their own daughter.

I don't think I am a victim of R spin at all. If you read my posts, nowhere do I claim the R's are innocent. I have always claimed that they both know what really happened and that they are both lying. That does not mean I see one or both of them as murdering their daughter, but it does mean they are hiding something. Hiding something BIG imo.

I disagree that I have to demonstrate anything in my theory. I only have to state it and see what evidence supports it and see what evidence works against it. I personally believe very strongly that the DNA is directly linked with JBR's death.

Anyhoo,

You state that the DNA could be completely false.

No I never. This suggests you have an agenda.

I think people are being honest when they say there is DNA present that they cannot identify

So do I.

this is one of the main reasons why reasonable doubt was cast on the R's murdering their own daughter.

Your belief has absolutely nothing to do with the presence or absence of unknown DNA, why? Because it is unknown and has never been connected with anyone outside of the Ramsey household, i.e. no relationship has been established between the DNA and JonBenet's death.

The reasonable doubt is a Ramsey/DA fiction promoted to preserve the IDI assumption!

I disagree that I have to demonstrate anything in my theory.

Of course you do, otherwise you are just making stuff up, thats what the R's do, e.g. touch-dna equals intruder.

I personally believe very strongly that the DNA is directly linked with JBR's death.

Your belief is not fact, the touch-dna could have arrived from anywhere, including the outside of the size-12's as they were opened, then transferred by an R's hand, or at the autopsy, again by hand, or via JonBenet herself, her hands or clothing could have picked up the touch-dna anywhere at the White's party, or anywhere on the route back home. Thats why its called touch-dna!

For the record there is no forensic evidence, again zero evidence linking to anyone outside of the Ramsey house!


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