Knowing all you know today about this case who do you think really killed JonBenet?

[OpenMind4U]

and it was reported that they acted like a couple in the midst of a divorce. IMO, this observation would have been because of specific interactions, and it wouldn't have been mistaken with grief or the stress of waiting on the call. All I was wondering, was if this was their normal, every day interaction, or if it started that day, For instance, did anyone at FW's party notice anything? Were they angry with each other then too, or did they act like a happy, loving couple? Either way would be interesting to think about,,,especially since the ransom note was such an anger filled tirade against JR. The note was sandwiched in between the 2 events...the W's party and the waiting on the phone call, so, I am interested in any and everything that led up to the note writing. moo

Dodie20, according to LHP, Ramseys interaction with each other was always cold and distanced.

 

[midwest mama]

I would like to add something to this discussion from the perspective 'what I would do?'. And I'll keep in mind what Pirplegrl said earlier: ' We are all so very different and react so differently.

OK, I'm powerfull CEO, rich and have connections, political and otherwise. My daughter has been kidnapped. LE and FBI came, installed the wire-tap and LEFT leaving me and my family with only one officer: woman, victim advocate, who seems lost, doesn't know what to do for more than 2.5 hours!!!! The time for kidnapper's call come and go...and nobody from LE and FBI are here, in my house!!!!! What I'm waiting for?...Why I'm NOT calling my 'connections', high-power people to speed-up the search? And why didn't they using these damn dogs which are outside of my house? Bring these dogs IN!!!! I'm demanding the SPECIAL attention to my family, right now! And don't you dare tell me that your officers are on the meeting! Let me talk to your Chief in charge!....Do you know who I am?...My daughter in danger, you're SOB!'.....

Cut!...I'm back to myself. Now, do you know what I mean with above?

Yep, an innocent, high-powered parent might have surely reacted just as you say. :yes:

Nuff said? :gavel:

 

[Magdalyn]

I would like to add something to this discussion from the perspective 'what I would do?'. And I'll keep in mind what Pirplegrl said earlier: ' We are all so very different and react so differently.

OK, I'm powerfull CEO, rich and have connections, political and otherwise. My daughter has been kidnapped. LE and FBI came, installed the wire-tap and LEFT leaving me and my family with only one officer: woman, victim advocate, who seems lost, doesn't know what to do for more than 2.5 hours!!!! The time for kidnapper's call come and go...and nobody from LE and FBI are here, in my house!!!!! What I'm waiting for?...Why I'm NOT calling my 'connections', high-power people to speed-up the search? And why didn't they using these damn dogs which are outside of my house? Bring these dogs IN!!!! I'm demanding the SPECIAL attention to my family, right now! And don't you dare tell me that your officers are on the meeting! Let me talk to your Chief in charge!....Do you know who I am?...My daughter in danger, you're SOB!'.....

Cut!...I'm back to myself. Now, do you know what I mean with above?

Very much agreed.

Also, the distancing from JBRs body. When JR came up with JBRs body, he was holding his precious baby stifly away from himself, by the waist, not holding her to him as most parents would. He then only stroked, embraced her when he was sure he was being watched. (whilst further contaminating the body, ugh.)

(and I know some might say this might be how he acts because he thinks he's holding a dead child and she's stiff...but he does act the other way/stroking, affectionate towards her corpse once she's in front of the tree. So one of those reactions was natural, IMO, one was not.)

THEN!

They couldn't get out of the house fast enough, no problem walking away from their cold, dead, child. The officer observed that is extremely unusual for the parents of a deceased child. Most parents can hardly bear to part with the child. Patsy walked out, lickity split, and never looked back.

THEN!

They wanted that dang body that was so easy to walk away from, back to them, fast as spit, stop looking at it so closely, why do you still need it?

If I were innocent of my child's murder and the medical examiner needed the body a little longer to be sure they found every scrap of evidence they could to find his/her killer, I wouldn't fight them over it. I'd want them to use everything they could to find that killer.

The body distancing reminds me of the verbal distancing you read so much about in language analysis in regards to both sexual molestation and fillicide.

 

[Rashi'sDaughter]

Wow, Magdalyn, you made some great points there. I didn't recall Patsy's eager departure on the 26th. And let's not forget John's attempt to leave Boulder on the morning of the 26th due to a "business trip". Yes, these sure are the reactions of innocent, grief-stricken parents all right.:sick: It really makes me sick.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Very much agreed.

Also, the distancing from JBRs body. When JR came up with JBRs body, he was holding his precious baby stifly away from himself, by the waist, not holding her to him as most parents would. He then only stroked, embraced her when he was sure he was being watched. (whilst further contaminating the body, ugh.)

(and I know some might say this might be how he acts because he thinks he's holding a dead child and she's stiff...but he does act the other way/stroking, affectionate towards her corpse once she's in front of the tree. So one of those reactions was natural, IMO, one was not.)

THEN!

They couldn't get out of the house fast enough, no problem walking away from their cold, dead, child. The officer observed that is extremely unusual for the parents of a deceased child. Most parents can hardly bear to part with the child. Patsy walked out, lickity split, and never looked back.

THEN!

They wanted that dang body that was so easy to walk away from, back to them, fast as spit, stop looking at it so closely, why do you still need it?

If I were innocent of my child's murder and the medical examiner needed the body a little longer to be sure they found every scrap of evidence they could to find his/her killer, I wouldn't fight them over it. I'd want them to use everything they could to find that killer.

The body distancing reminds me of the verbal distancing you read so much about in language analysis in regards to both sexual molestation and fillicide.

Definitely good points. But Again reactions say little to me. Maybe their biggest concern was distancing Burke from this tragedy. They have another child in the house. One child was murdered in the home, their safe place. How will they protect the other one???

People react differently to death. If I picked my baby up stiff, carried her up the stairs I may have her momentarily but seeing her stiff feeling her dead, even thinking if it, I would not have wanted to see that any longer. I may have been repulsed or ill.

We are human and all of us different. I just can't see guilt in reactions. I just know too many people who react completely differently. When my grandfather died I saw my dad react with anger. His brother with crying.

In extreme situations nine of know how we would react. We can suppose and assume but in the end , and may God keep us from anything do terrible, we just don't know.

 

[Rashi'sDaughter]

Distancing Burke, Pirplegrl? He wasn't even there, remember? They made sure he was gone before LE even stepped foot inside their house. Sorry, but that's not the reason for their bizarre reaction to their daughter's death.

 

[Magdalyn]

Question for anyone (and it's genuine, I really don't know): Did the Ramseys request a 'round the clock' police detail for Burke? Or hire security guards/personal body guard for him?

When they sent him away from the house, did he have police escort that stayed with him?

I know they sent him back to school @ two weeks after the murder while his sister's murderer was at large... did he have a security detail either private or courtesy of the BPD?

 

[Nom de plume]

Question for anyone (and it's genuine, I really don't know): Did the Ramseys request a 'round the clock' police detail for Burke? Or hire security guards/personal body guard for him?

When they sent him away from the house, did he have police escort that stayed with him?

I know they sent him back to school @ two weeks after the murder while his sister's murderer was at large... did he have a security detail either private or courtesy of the BPD?

No, no, no & no.

Obviously worried about their son after a Foreign Faction had just murdered their daughter. Uh huh...

 

[otg]

Question for anyone (and it's genuine, I really don't know): Did the Ramseys request a 'round the clock' police detail for Burke? Or hire security guards/personal body guard for him?

As Nom de plume said, "no", and "no".

When they sent him away from the house, did he have police escort that stayed with him?

No "escort", but a policeman did go to the White residence during his stay there. This is when the supposed "unauthorized interview" took place (although at the time, they had no idea what kind of crime they were dealing with).

I know they sent him back to school @ two weeks after the murder while his sister's murderer was at large... did he have a security detail either private or courtesy of the BPD?

Again, "no" is the short answer, but for some time afterwards, SS (the "pitbull") drove him and DS (his "bud") to and from. She also kept guard over them and managed to keep anyone away (not that anyone could blame her or the R's for wanting to do that).

 

[midwest mama]

Wow, Magdalyn, you made some great points there. I didn't recall Patsy's eager departure on the 26th. And let's not forget John's attempt to leave Boulder on the morning of the 26th due to a "business trip". Yes, these sure are the reactions of innocent, grief-stricken parents all right.:sick: It really makes me sick.

Am I mistaken, or was Patsy already medicated by Dr. Beuf and vomiting after seeing JB's body? I can't understand how she would have made a departure from that home with any action that showed eagerness, except to get away from the vision of her dead child. Patsy was physically supported by friends and put into a car separate from her husband when she left the house. JR, however walked on his own steam out to the street to meet with his other kids, and then they all got into a van to be driven to the Fernies, during which time he told S. Long (probably within earshot of JAR and Melinda) that he had found JB's body at 11 am.

JR had his plans to fly to Georgia for business reasons (as he indicated), almost immediately after discovering JB nixed by the Police. Business as usual, within minutes of seeing your dead child??? Now I think I need to vomit.

Yes, people do react differently to grief, but if you, as a bystander on the sidewalk, had just witnessed the displayed reactions of these two parents who had just seen their murdered child, which would think MOST LIKELY to have been able to kill their child?

 

[midwest mama]

As Nom de plume said, "no", and "no".

No "escort", but a policeman did go to the White residence during his stay there. This is when the supposed "unauthorized interview" took place (although at the time, they had no idea what kind of crime they were dealing with).

Again, "no" is the short answer, but for some time afterwards, SS (the "pitbull") drove him and DS (his "bud") to and from. She also kept guard over them and managed to keep anyone away (not that anyone could blame her or the R's for wanting to do that).

IIRC, the early days after the crime were also a time Patsy was heavily medicated. She appeared on the CNN interview with sagging eyelids and slurred speech. I can't imagine Patsy having much ability to make any decisions regarding Burke's well-being. But, Mr. Businessman himself? Yep, he'd surely have been in charge.

 

[deca]

As Nom de plume said, "no", and "no".

No "escort", but a policeman did go to the White residence during his stay there. This is when the supposed "unauthorized interview" took place (although at the time, they had no idea what kind of crime they were dealing with).

Again, "no" is the short answer, but for some time afterwards, SS (the "pitbull") drove him and DS (his "bud") to and from. She also kept guard over them and managed to keep anyone away (not that anyone could blame her or the R's for wanting to do that).

BBM: I hadn't heard about this. I am guessing nothing about this has been leaked?

 

[OpenMind4U]

BBM: I hadn't heard about this. I am guessing nothing about this has been leaked?

It's well documented FACT. I'm sure otg will explain this better but for now the word 'unauthorized' was used because by the law, if LE need to interview the child (without presents of child's parents) then they would need to obtain permission from the child's parents (or next close relatives like grandparents) before the interview starts.

Burke was interviewed by LE at the house of Ramsey's friends way before JB body was found by John at 1:00pm. It has been reported that permission was given by Burke's grandmother.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I need to ask something. It's been driving me nuts today. When did the police start searching the house? Jr found her at 1 pm.

Had he searched before? Do we know how many times the house was searched??

 

[OpenMind4U]

I need to ask something. It's been driving me nuts today. When did the police start searching the house? Jr found her at 1 pm.

Had he searched before? Do we know how many times the house was searched??

The house was searched internally (including basement!), on two separate occasions, by two BPD officers (officer French and officer Reichenbach) right after 911 call, approx at 6:10am. Numerious FBI, CSI and BPD officers were searching house outside for 'kidnapping' break-ins evidences, with the searching dogs on the 'stand-by' positiom, through-out early morning . Ramsey's friend, Fleet White, was searching house internally (including basement and WC) around 7:00am. According to John's testimony many months later, John admitted that he searched basement around 10:00am by himself.

After John 'found' JB at 1:00pm, the house becomes from 'kidnapping' to 'homicide' crime scene and BPD removed everyone from the house immidietly to perform thorough search.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Tell me why in all those searchers no one found her. That just makes my brain hurt thinking about that.

I have something brewing and I'm just not sure where it fits yet.

 

[OpenMind4U]

Tell me why in all those searchers no one found her. That just makes my brain hurt thinking about that.

I have something brewing and I'm just not sure where it fits yet.

Excellent question!!!

- Both BPD officers (officer French and officer Reichenbach) were trying to open the WC door but saw that wooden latch outside of the door was latched (closed). Means, that this door couldn't be the entry/exit point for kidnappers because how kidnappers could use this door as the 'exit' and 'latched' it at the same time?...so, they pulled the door but not un-latched the door;

- Fleet White has un-latched the door and look inside. It was very dark and he didn't turned the light on...so, he saw nothing;

- at 1:00pm, both John Ramsey and Fleet White, went to the basement together. John opened WC door without turning the light on and 'discovered' JB right away;

- many-many months later, BPD performed an experiment during morning hours and during other hours of the day. They placed light color blanket on the floor of WC, opened WC door, steped and looked inside without turning the light on. They saw NOTHING.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Is that according to fleet whites account?

 

[OpenMind4U]

Is that according to fleet whites account?

According to Fleet White and John's testimony as well. John doesn't remember if he turned the light before 'finding' JB.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Fleet says for sure John did not turn on light? Could he have turned it in as he slipped in? It's not a detail that would stick out fit me if I was looking for a missing child. Kwim?