Knowing all you know today about this case who do you think really killed JonBenet?

[DeDee]

Many things to many people. But not what you'd think.
I've been talking to dead people for many years. (sometimes they "talk back". The Other Side is very different from most people's religious beliefs about it.

Hiya, DeeDee.

Who all have you talked to that was dead? That's so neat.

Is JonBenet on The Other Side? I mean, have you attempted to speak to JonBenet? Please, do tell her we adore her so much and we're sorry but we have just a few questions, if she doesn't mind.

 

[WhereAreTheyNow]

Stop the religious discussion please. :nono:

:tyou:

If it ties in to this case, that's fine. Otherwise, leave it in your back pocket.

With all respect, this discussion is not religious. That would be like debating Jesus vs. Mohammed vs. Buddha - a discussion much more enlightening at the appropriate fora.

I argue that this case centers around faith - especially for The Ramseys and Lou Smit (and Steve Thomas for different reasons).

For example, Smit may have accepted the obvious had he not bonded in prayer with JR which in turn would have probably led Hunter to honor the GJ's indictment. Contrary to all of the big money/big power conspiracies, Hunter didn't indict simply because his hand-picked, expert investigator believed IDI. And Team Ramsey knew it. VICTORY!

After all, PR's faith defeated cancer, right? At least for a period of time.

I believe self-righteous indignation continues to rationalize the behavior one Christmas night.

 

[Chrishope]

With all respect, this discussion is not religious. That would be like debating Jesus vs. Mohammed vs. Buddha - a discussion much more enlightening at the appropriate fora.

I argue that this case centers around faith - especially for The Ramseys and Lou Smit (and Steve Thomas for different reasons).

For example, Smit may have accepted the obvious had he not bonded in prayer with JR which in turn would have probably led Hunter to honor the GJ's indictment. Contrary to all of the big money/big power conspiracies, Hunter didn't indict simply because his hand-picked, expert investigator believed IDI. And Team Ramsey knew it. VICTORY!

After all, PR's faith defeated cancer, right? At least for a period of time.

I believe self-righteous indignation continues to rationalize the behavior one Christmas night.

I have always suspected that LS opinion was influenced by $

 

[rashomon]

rashomon,

New forensic evidence might implicate Patsy, as in some kind of mother/daughter abuse, think pageants?

UKGuy,

One of the many depressing, haunting aspects of this case: it seems that no Ramsey family member present in the home on that night can definitely be excluded as having chronically sexually abused JonBenet.

Does there exist any report as to whether DNA swabs were taken from the victim's genital area?

 

[Chrishope]

[/b]
BBM....Agree. There is no evidence JB was in the kitchen. There was an oversize serving spoon in the pineapple bowl. I think if PR was serving the snack to her child, she would have placed a small spoon in the bowl, but I can imagine a child grabbing a large serving spoon. I continue to think BR was maneuvering around the house in the dark with the aid of the flashlight, brought a few pieces of pineapple up to JB in her bedroom and climbed into bed with her with the flashlight. I think the head bash happened in JB's bedroom.

It's certainly a possibility. It seems clear that the "place setting" was not intended for JB to be a participant.

I would think the oversized spoon tends to indicate a child getting a snack for himself rather than something set out by PR.

Bottom line is we know when JB ate pa but we don't know the circumstances and all we can do is guess. Theories that place JB at the breakfast bar, and which have the altercation leading to death starting in the breakfast bar have no basis in evidence, as far as I can see. (at least not publicly available evidence) Such theories are certainly possible though.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

With all respect, this discussion is not religious. That would be like debating Jesus vs. Mohammed vs. Buddha - a discussion much more enlightening at the appropriate fora.

I argue that this case centers around faith - especially for The Ramseys and Lou Smit (and Steve Thomas for different reasons).

For example, Smit may have accepted the obvious had he not bonded in prayer with JR which in turn would have probably led Hunter to honor the GJ's indictment. Contrary to all of the big money/big power conspiracies, Hunter didn't indict simply because his hand-picked, expert investigator believed IDI. And Team Ramsey knew it. VICTORY!
After all, PR's faith defeated cancer, right? At least for a period of time.

I believe self-righteous indignation continues to rationalize the behavior one Christmas night.

Yes, & she was S.B.T.C. (Saved By The Cross)!!!

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

UKGuy,

One of the many depressing, haunting aspects of this case: it seems that no Ramsey family member present in the home on that night can definitely be excluded as having chronically sexually abused JonBenet.

Does there exist any report as to whether DNA swabs were taken from the victim's genital area?

Sure they can. There is no direct evidence that it was any of them. It is possible it was someone close to her but not immediate family.
Happens every day. And no one knows.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

It's certainly a possibility. It seems clear that the "place setting" was not intended for JB to be a participant.

I would think the oversized spoon tends to indicate a child getting a snack for himself rather than something set out by PR.

Bottom line is we know when JB ate pa but we don't know the circumstances and all we can do is guess. Theories that place JB at the breakfast bar, and which have the altercation leading to death starting in the breakfast bar have no basis in evidence, as far as I can see. (at least not publicly available evidence) Such theories are certainly possible though.

It may not seem probable but it is certainly possible. My kids love the big spoon. Makes them feel like grown ups. So again, The spoon size is a wash. It means nothing either way for me.

 

[Chrishope]

Many things are possible. Many fewer are probable.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

For example, Smit may have accepted the obvious had he not bonded in prayer with JR

This is an assumption. We have no idea what LS was thinking as JR said prayer. There are many times people pray and the people around them just stand silent and listen. They just show them the respect to pray.

I find it erroneous that people would assume because someone prays in the presence of another that it means that all in the area would agree with the prayer.
It seems like another reason that RDI's use to negate LS skill and findings instead of just sticking to the findings themselves. His record speaks for itself. His religion should matter not.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Oh look at them, butter wouldn't melt in their mouths.

I personally cannot fathom getting all dressed in black, my makeup did, hair, etc, for a photo shoot to sell a book mainly about myself, on the back of my daughter's murder.

What sort of parent does that? I mean really? Most bereaved moms I have met have a hard time talking about their lost child at all, even decades later...let alone write, publish and market a book about it.

Seriously, what is the psychology behind it? Wouldn't you rather go back to a life of anonymity if you'd been through what these two were subjected to, considering they claim to be totally innocent?

PR was comfortable in the limelight, I guess, from her "beauty queen" days.

:sick:

:cow:

Amazing how it is completely acceptable to bash and beat up on the victims. Their dd is gone. There are no charges against them. At this point they are just parents who lost a child.

So now we pick on their appearance and that serves what purpose? To me all it says is there is not enough to convict so ridiculing is the next best thing.

This has nothing to do with evidence or the case or what happened to JBR that night.

 

[gramcracker]

With all respect, this discussion is not religious. That would be like debating Jesus vs. Mohammed vs. Buddha - a discussion much more enlightening at the appropriate fora.

I argue that this case centers around faith - especially for The Ramseys and Lou Smit (and Steve Thomas for different reasons).

For example, Smit may have accepted the obvious had he not bonded in prayer with JR which in turn would have probably led Hunter to honor the GJ's indictment. Contrary to all of the big money/big power conspiracies, Hunter didn't indict simply because his hand-picked, expert investigator believed IDI. And Team Ramsey knew it. VICTORY!

After all, PR's faith defeated cancer, right? At least for a period of time.

I believe self-righteous indignation continues to rationalize the behavior one Christmas night.

I agree. the adoption of the separation of church and state, while aimed mainly at the executive and legislative branches of the US gov't, ensures freedom from a state religion and freedom for each individual to choose their religion. LEOs are cogs in the wheel of the judicial branch of government and therefore representatives of the state, and that is relevant to LS's actions

under color of authority, it was inappropriate and unprofessional of him to bond with persons under suspicion using one of the most personal and private avenues of human interaction. would he have created that bond if their religious beliefs had not meshed with his? did he have a history of praying with everyone he investigated, or only those who shared his chosen beliefs? he created an appearance of bias and favoritism which IMO was valid then, and remains so to this day

 

[questfortrue]

I have always suspected that LS opinion was influenced by $

Have suspected this, too. One other thing though. If you read his letter of resignation to AH it demonstrates a colossal ego, claiming he knows the case better than anyone, any of the other BPD detectives and anyone else on the DA's investigative team. He was looking to polish his star of "master detective" above all others. moo

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,

One of the many depressing, haunting aspects of this case: it seems that no Ramsey family member present in the home on that night can definitely be excluded as having chronically sexually abused JonBenet.

Does there exist any report as to whether DNA swabs were taken from the victim's genital area?

rashomon,
Coroner Meyer will have taken samples from JonBenet's genital area, both internally and externally, as a matter of pathological procedure.

These will have been used to arrive at the IDI conclusion. Patently this was a highly selective procedure, we have yet to be informed if PR, JR, or BR's touch-dna was found on JonBenet's naked body?

No family member has ever been excluded as chronically abusing JonBenet, similarly nobody external to the Ramsey's has ever been excluded, and those familiar with the case will know precisely who that might be.


.

 

[Flossie JMO]

And 6yo little girls should not have a damaged vagina nor a 7" cracked skull on Christmas night or any other time.

Is it easier to believe JDI b/c a mother would never sexually invade her own daughter? It was PR's artist brush.

Is it easier to think BDI b/c how could a daughter's own mother tighten a garrote? The garrote is directly tied by sweater fibers to PR.

It's incomprehensible. Almost. Only, those of us who follow justice for children understand that, unfortunately, moms kill their children in unimaginable ways.


The grand jury wanted to indict and it was not because IDI.
imo

Bbm, yes, jmo, this is one thing that is clear.

 

[Nom de plume]

Sure they can. There is no direct evidence that it was any of them. It is possible it was someone close to her but not immediate family.
Happens every day. And no one knows.

No they can't. There is no direct evidence that it wasn't any of them.

 

[rashomon]

rashomon,
Coroner Meyer will have taken samples from JonBenet's genital area, both internally and externally, as a matter of pathological procedure.

These will have been used to arrive at the IDI conclusion. Patently this was a highly selective procedure, we have yet to be informed if PR, JR, or BR's touch-dna was found on JonBenet's naked body?

UKGuy,
So you think that there also exist DNA test results which have been kept secret to this day?

 

[BBB167893]

This is an assumption. We have no idea what LS was thinking as JR said prayer.

In the classic sense, that's true, Scarlett. Only he knew what he was thinking, and he took those thoughts to the grave. But it's not as if the assumption comes purely out of thin air. Based on his ACTIONS, he's certainly opened himself up to being questioned.

It seems like another reason that RDI's use to negate LS skill and findings instead of just sticking to the findings themselves.

Plenty of reasons to do that.

His record speaks for itself.

That makes it even worse.

His religion should matter not.

It shouldn't. But it DID. That's our point.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

In the classic sense, that's true, Scarlett. Only he knew what he was thinking, and he took those thoughts to the grave. But it's not as if the assumption comes purely out of thin air. Based on his ACTIONS, he's certainly opened himself up to being questioned.



Plenty of reasons to do that.



That makes it even worse.



It shouldn't. But it DID. That's our point.

His religion does not matter. I am positive that he investigated many people who would be called Religious. That makes no difference in the out come.

In this case it is just something used to pick apart someone who was once on the side of the LE and then saw things go the other way. He is persecuted for that. People want to make him all kinds of things to ignore his findings.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

No they can't. There is no direct evidence that it wasn't any of them.

There can not be direct evidence that it was NOT someone.. Only that it was someone.

Their fibers and dna are there because they all belong there.