Knowing all you know today about this case who do you think really killed JonBenet?

[ScarlettScarpetta]

"They" didn't call police. PR called the police. The call is at odds with what the RN says, so at a minimum there is no attempt to make it appear that "they" are taking the warnings in the RN seriously. I would go as far as saying the caller had no intention of making the kidnap scenario plausible at all.

I think that fact that she called works for them. She would not have been able to call if she knew JBR was dead. She Loved that child. It is obvious.

I would have done the same thing.. Picked up the phone and called the police ASAP. They are who we go to for help. They are the ones who handle crimes.

Calling the police, getting a lawyer, part of the process. It means not one thing about guilt.

 

[Chrishope]

I think that fact that she called works for them.

I think it works for her, but not "them".

She would not have been able to call if she knew JBR was dead. She Loved that child. It is obvious.

I don't see why not.

I would have done the same thing.. Picked up the phone and called the police ASAP. They are who we go to for help. They are the ones who handle crimes.

I would also have called the police. But I'd have a hard time ignoring the threats, unless I had not read the note carefully. But JR, by his own account, did read it carefully.

Calling the police, getting a lawyer, part of the process. It means not one thing about guilt.

I'm not saying that getting lawyers or calling the cops indicates guilt. I'm saying it indicates that at least one adult R either was not fully aware of what was in the note, or decided to ignore it anyway. To me, this tends to cut against some RDI theories which have JR/PR working as a team. As a team I'd think they'd want to present themselves as taking the RN to be real, which means pretending to take it's warnings seriously.

Since this is not the "other theories" thread, I believe it's still ok to discuss various RDI theories here. (Or is the majority now confined to a single thread?)

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

A lot of people did not like Patsy, That is fine and their choice. I see nothing but a mother who loved this little girl. Im not talking about tumor or book fodder.

She called the police because she wanted her baby found.

Kidnappers write hideous things in their notes. You still call the police. Maybe if the police had thought ahead, Called the fbi asap and said we have a missing child and a note, they would have handled it better from the start.

ANything goes as far as I know in this thread.

But there is nothing in the way they called the police and reported it that is any different than I think anyone else would have either. It was the police that messed up.

 

[Chrishope]

A lot of people did not like Patsy, That is fine and their choice. I see nothing but a mother who loved this little girl. Im not talking about tumor or book fodder.

She called the police because she wanted her baby found.

Kidnappers write hideous things in their notes. You still call the police. Maybe if the police had thought ahead, Called the fbi asap and said we have a missing child and a note, they would have handled it better from the start.

ANything goes as far as I know in this thread.

But there is nothing in the way they called the police and reported it that is any different than I think anyone else would have either. It was the police that messed up.

You are missing the point.

 

[gramcracker]

They did not have to talk at all. They were being crucified but this insane LE and DA office. Who goes on TV putting them under suspicion.

I would not have talked either.. Being smart does not mean you are guilty.

I hadn't realized that the parents of Danielle van Dam, Polly Klaas, Jessica Lunsford, Adam Walsh and far too many others received such poor legal advice

those parents cooperated in every possible way from Minute One/Day One because they knew they were innocent. they volunteered for/took lie detector tests administered by LE. they didn't hide behind lawyers to protect themselves. they were relentless in asking for the truth and they answered any/all questions in their numerous interviews, which led to some embarassing revelations by the van Dams. Danielle, Polly, Jessica and Adam were murdered by intruders/kidnappers and JB was murdered by someone in her family. compare the behaviors: slam dunk, hands down. I don't cotton to that "we can't know, everyone reacts differently." wait, I guess I do: guilty acts different than innocent

Apparently it is. Because if it was something that was actionable by the bar they would have been disbarred or sanctioned. None of that happened and it was not like it happened under a rock.

who decides on disbarring/sanctioning? lawyers do. "hello, fox? I need someone to keep an eye on my henhouse. are you available? yah, today. you're on your way? kewl, see ya in a few"

 

[eileenhawkeye]

A lot of people did not like Patsy, That is fine and their choice. I see nothing but a mother who loved this little girl. Im not talking about tumor or book fodder.

She called the police because she wanted her baby found.

Kidnappers write hideous things in their notes. You still call the police. Maybe if the police had thought ahead, Called the fbi asap and said we have a missing child and a note, they would have handled it better from the start.

ANything goes as far as I know in this thread.

But there is nothing in the way they called the police and reported it that is any different than I think anyone else would have either. It was the police that messed up.

What notes? Ransom notes are not common. They haven't been common in decades. What are all these recent cases where kidnappers wrote notes to the parents?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

It matters not what others do. You are entitled to attys. That is that.


The bar does.. They are the ones who look at lawyers actions and make disciplinary decisions. None made here so apparently they were within their boundaries.


Rights are rights are rights.. All those other people's children were not found dead in their house. So it is not a good comparison.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

What notes? Ransom notes are not common. They haven't been common in decades. What are all these recent cases where kidnappers wrote notes to the parents?

When there is a kidnapping usually there is a ransom note or call. That is the point. To get money.

I can not think of any but I don't see how that matters. You take a child, you want something you leave a note..

Since she was murdered nearly 2 decades ago, That would fit in your timeline.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

When there is a kidnapping usually there is a ransom note or call. That is the point. To get money.

I can not think of any but I don't see how that matters. You take a child, you want something you leave a note..

Since she was murdered nearly 2 decades ago, That would fit in your timeline.

That's not true. Danielle Van Dam, Jessica Lunsford, Jessica Ridgeway, Elizabeth and Lyric, Samantha Runnion, Polly Klaas, etc etc were all kidnapped, and there was no ransom note.

If the purpose of a ransom note is to get money, than the child's family is probably wealthy. Would a case with those circumstances really get no media coverage?

By decades, I meant back to the '30's and earlier. There were quite a few cases during the early 20th century where wealthy kids were abducted, and ransom notes left.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Because the pedophile wanted to take them and kill them.
The person that wanted them wanted nothing in return but them.

I feel that the person who did this was not sophisticated.. They wrote the note with lines from movies.. They had to know JR somehow to put that 118000 in there..

If PR had written the note it would not have had that amount. It would be just a generic note, We want 1million dollars.. Not 118000.

That makes no sense trying to cover something up with info that would lead to you.

There is too much that does not make sense for it to be the R's.

This person wanted to be dramatic, Maybe they wanted to hurt JR and that amount was put there to make him think and know someone wanted to hurt him..

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8334-18559_162-57431086/real-life-ransom-notes/?pageNum=6

Ransom note from 2008

 

[2 percent]

It matters not what others do. You are entitled to attys. That is that.


The bar does.. They are the ones who look at lawyers actions and make disciplinary decisions. None made here so apparently they were within their boundaries.


Rights are rights are rights.. All those other people's children were not found dead in their house. So it is not a good comparison.

So there is no precedence, statistics or patterns of behavior in any part of your theory of this crime?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

There does not have to be. This crime was unique.

All criminals don't think alike or plan alike.

It is okay that this crime in unique.

 

[Nom de plume]

I think it works for her, but not "them".

I don't see why not.

I would also have called the police. But I'd have a hard time ignoring the threats, unless I had not read the note carefully. But JR, by his own account, did read it carefully.


I'm not saying that getting lawyers or calling the cops indicates guilt. I'm saying it indicates that at least one adult R either was not fully aware of what was in the note, or decided to ignore it anyway. To me, this tends to cut against some RDI theories which have JR/PR working as a team. As a team I'd think they'd want to present themselves as taking the RN to be real, which means pretending to take it's warnings seriously.

Since this is not the "other theories" thread, I believe it's still ok to discuss various RDI theories here. (Or is the majority now confined to a single thread?)

You are presuming that PR did not read the note. It could just as easily have been the case that she didn't have to read it, or worry about the warnings, because she wrote it!

How do you explain her comments after she thought she hung up the phone? "Help me Jesus! They're gonna arrest me!" Or do you NOT believe an outside source about the tape?

 

[gramcracker]

The bar does.. They are the ones who look at lawyers actions and make disciplinary decisions. None made here so apparently they were within their boundaries.

the bar is made up of lawyers. lawyers investigate complaints against lawyers. it's not a mystery to me that sanctions, let alone disbarments, are extremely rare

Rights are rights are rights.. All those other people's children were not found dead in their house. So it is not a good comparison.

it is an excellent comparison because where those poor children's bodies were found has zero, nada, nothing to do with how their parents reacted

do you mean that the Rs were suspects because JonBenet's body was found in her home? if so, I agree

well before their children's remains were discovered elsewhere, those other parents were all viewed as suspects but they were cleared because of their immediate and thorough cooperation

or do you mean that those parents would have been less cooperative if their children's corpses had been found in their homes? if so, I disagree

it matters not where those other children were found, because they were kidnapped and their parents knew they were innocent and knew they had nothing to hide and they reacted and cooperated accordingly

(adding this due to msg that post is too short - because I posted inside quote)

 

[gramcracker]

staging is a term familiar to LE (and those who read true crime forums). I would expect someone with a criminal background to be fairly good at staging. I think the average person who never gave the term a thought before and wants to muddy a crime scene would think of what they are doing as fixing things that went wrong or could go wrong, and they would tend to over-fix

it makes sense that both parents would read the entire RN, probably setting new speed-reading records. JR did not write the RN so they (sub)consciously decided it was OK to say that he read the entire thing. PR was in great danger because she actually wrote the note, whether or not JR suggested it and/or dictated parts of it. they felt a greater (sub)conscious need to thoroughly distance her from it. she/they over-fixed the RN by saying that PR read only one sentence beyond "we have your daughter" and the signature. she had two children in the house, what if the second page said "we also have your son"? ... but she knew that only one of her children had been harmed so she only had to say that she read as far as "we have your daughter" to set the morning's events in motion

 

[Chrishope]

You are presuming that PR did not read the note. It could just as easily have been the case that she didn't have to read it, or worry about the warnings, because she wrote it!

How do you explain her comments after she thought she hung up the phone? "Help me Jesus! They're gonna arrest me!" Or do you NOT believe an outside source about the tape?

No, I'm not assuming she didn't read it, I'm assuming an either/or situation. Either she didn't read it fully, or she did read it fully and chose to ignore the warnings. If she's innocent, as Scarlet believes, why would she ignore the warnings altogether -even if she thought they were a bit exaggerated? If the kidnapping were real there would be a good reason to be concerned about what the kidnappers might do to JB.

As you note, if she wrote it she didn't need to read it, or believe the warnings, but she'd still have to pretend that it was a real RN left by real kidnappers. So, not heeding the warnings, at all -in fact flagrantly violating the instructions - she seems to treat the note as if it's not real, or at least as if the threats are not real.

If it's an RDI case and the RN is staged, wouldn't it be more believable if "they" pretended to take it very seriously? That suggests to me that there is no "team effort" between JR/PR. If "they" want to run with the kidnapping story, why don't "they" treat the RN like they really think it's an actual RN?

I hear the "Help me Jesus" part of the enhanced tape, and I account for it by saying that she was simply asking Jesus to help her in a time of need. I have never heard "They're gonna arrest me".

 

[renah]

This is kind of off topic but I dont see any better place to post it. This thread is active and has intelligent people posting -- tho that applies to nearly all of the threads -- but Mods please feel free to remove this if its a problem!

While reading in the archives, I saw a statement made: That a certain investigator had a "need to insist that the Ramsey's were innocent due to something that had happened in his own personal family(?) life. That he was strongly invested to find the real culprit & exonerate JR PR BR et al because of something his parents did? and implying that he was blind to facts that would normally scream guilt.

Well as hard as Ive tried to find that thread, i probably read it at some crazy late hour when my brain was on autopilot. Does this sound familiar to anyone? (The thread subject, not the auto-brainstate)!

Im pretty sure it was either LW or LS. And i think that SuperDave was a (nicely ) vocal participant.

I dont mean to hijack this discussion, & apologize if i have. Its just that, especially lately, its been front & center in my mind. I find it fascinating, the hows and whys behind a person's reasoning & the process of getting there..

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

(adding this due to msg that post is too short - because I posted inside quote)

Those comparisons are not accurate and nor do they point to this case or the parents in any way.

This was a unique crime and circumstances.

It had nothing to do with the cases were not only were the children taken but killed. Maybe if the police in this case handled things as well as those other depts? We would have had someone in prison by now for the murder of this little girl.

 

[Nom de plume]

No, I'm not assuming she didn't read it, I'm assuming an either/or situation. Either she didn't read it fully, or she did read it fully and chose to ignore the warnings. If she's innocent, as Scarlet believes, why would she ignore the warnings altogether -even if she thought they were a bit exaggerated? If the kidnapping were real there would be a good reason to be concerned about what the kidnappers might do to JB.

As you note, if she wrote it she didn't need to read it, or believe the warnings, but she'd still have to pretend that it was a real RN left by real kidnappers. So, not heeding the warnings, at all -in fact flagrantly violating the instructions - she seems to treat the note as if it's not real, or at least as if the threats are not real.

If it's an RDI case and the RN is staged, wouldn't it be more believable if "they" pretended to take it very seriously? That suggests to me that there is no "team effort" between JR/PR. If "they" want to run with the kidnapping story, why don't "they" treat the RN like they really think it's an actual RN?

I hear the "Help me Jesus" part of the enhanced tape, and I account for it by saying that she was simply asking Jesus to help her in a time of need. I have never heard "They're gonna arrest me".

Going with your theory that PR was innocent, how in the world can you explain her NOT reading the entire RN? That is the part that is just so unbelievable to me! I can't imagine not reading the entire thing, probably more than once! It just doesn't ring true to me.

Had I been in their situation, presuming of course that one or both were innocent, why not read it several times? Discuss it? Wake BR & grill him about what he might have heard? At least have a few minutes of debate about the best course of action to take considering the threats to JB's life?

Of course one, or both IMO, were guilty so they didn't need to worry about JB at that point. They only people they were worried about were the two of them.

As far as them not treating the RN threats as real, I think that was 1. unimportant to them as they knew she was already dead, and 2. they had to invite half of Boulder in to contaminate the crime scene.

If JR alone is guilty, why didn't HE treat the threats as real? Why didn't HE make sure PR told them not to show up in marked cars & uniforms? Why didn't HE tell PR that no one else was to be invited over? Fact is, JR didn't treat the RN threats as any more real than PR did!

A little OT but if PR was innocent, why did she agree to let BR be shuttled over to the W's house? What happened to "keep your babies close!"? Wouldn't she have been worried that they might nab BR too? I wouldn't have let him out of my sight for years! For that matter, why didn't she insist on him having an armed guard when he went back to school?

Sorry Chrishope, I just can't see any way to exclude PR from at minimum, the knowledge of what had happened. That's what led me away from DocG's theory. Her behavior, and choices, were not that of an innocent woman.