GUILTY KS - Andrew Finch, 28, killed by LE in 'swatting' prank, Wichita, 28 Dec 2017 *civil trial 2022*

[mister happy]

This is just terrible, but there are hoax calls and the caller who phoned with the hoax was in CA wasn't he? How did they not pick up that he was calling from a phone that was not in that local area? I am pretty sure that all emergency calls now, display the number with the area code visible. Someone in California calls 911 and claims that he is holding hostages in KS?

He was probably using some sort of caller ID spoofing technique.

 

[Jax49]

This is just terrible, but there are hoax calls and the caller who phoned with the hoax was in CA wasn't he? How did they not pick up that he was calling from a phone that was not in that local area? I am pretty sure that all emergency calls now, display the number with the area code visible. Someone in California calls 911 and claims that he is holding hostages in KS?

Swatting has gained traction across the country with online gamers. Those who try to cause the swatting incident will use caller ID spoofing or other techniques to disguise their number as being local. Or they call local non-emergency numbers instead of 911, according to 911.gov.

http://www.kansas.com/news/local/crime/article192111974.html

 

[Gardenista]

He was probably using some sort of caller ID spoofing technique.

It's normal these days. The area code on my phone is 1000 miles away from where I live

 

[Lilibet]

He was probably using some sort of caller ID spoofing technique.

Spoofing is really common with sales and scam calls. They try to make you think it’s a local number, so you’ll answer. I’m sure it could be done in this case.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

Is it legal --if such a situation unfolds like the one that resulted in Andrew's death -- to NOT go outside your house immediately, but to call 911 and ask what is going on ... and see if you can explain there's not a threat; and that you'll come outside peacefully, arms in the air, etc. ???

See, some of us have become terrified of cops and what they might do. I asked an off duty cop in uniform to leave my house a few years back and go outside and talk because I didn't want him around my dogs with a gun. There had been a string of incidents where cops had shot dogs unfairly, and while I knew this person and had trusted him in my home before he became a cop, I no longer wanted him near my dogs when he had a gun. Interesting that the man only made me nervous after he became a cop. I couldn't help but feel that way.

I've worked with plenty who seemed like good cops, but ultimately, I don't want them around unless absolutely necessary now that I have seen what can happen if you make them nervous. I prefer to deal with as much as I possibly could on my own instead of calling them, especially since twice in my life they have put me in danger. They were the reason I had to get a gun and my conceal carry when they stupidly outed me to the person I called on once.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

[mrsobrien]

This is just terrible, but there are hoax calls and the caller who phoned with the hoax was in CA wasn't he? How did they not pick up that he was calling from a phone that was not in that local area? I am pretty sure that all emergency calls now, display the number with the area code visible. Someone in California calls 911 and claims that he is holding hostages in KS?

Probably a spoof app. Plus, we do know that he called the non emergency number in KS, which would avoided his phone routing to his local 911.

 

[animlzrule]

This is just terrible, but there are hoax calls and the caller who phoned with the hoax was in CA wasn't he? How did they not pick up that he was calling from a phone that was not in that local area? I am pretty sure that all emergency calls now, display the number with the area code visible. Someone in California calls 911 and claims that he is holding hostages in KS?

With cell phones, your number can travel with you. For instance, my son's music instructor still has an area code from his home state even though he lives in a different state now. My parents cell number also has an area code from a different state than the state in which they live. So I don't think they would necessarily have been able to tell if it was a cell phone number.

 

[rsd1200]

BBM

Hi RSD, good to see you in this discussion. I 100% agree with you say.

It seems you and I have discussed this LE topic left, right and sideways. Yes there are LE that are bad apples. JJ comes to mind.

But in this case the real culprit was three gamers who have no respect for human lives. They set that innocent man up to die and they set that LE officer up for a lifetime of nightmares, remorse and regrets.

1st degree murder for all three gamers.

They may not have had the forethought that anyone would die, but, they should most definitely be judged in a court of their peers. I cannot believe someone would do that to another. That's just not funny even if no one had died. I would not be a LEO if they paid me a war pension.

 

[rsd1200]

That's really sweet! Thank you.



It is undoubtedly on TB. He caused this. He intended harm on the person he thought lived there. Even if the office who fired did so negligently, (which I think he did. The fact that there wasn't a volley of gun fire tells us that no one else out of the likely dozens of SWAT present felt he posed a threat) TB is still
solidly to blame.



Wait and coddle? These were SWAT in full protective gear, standing behind barriers, addressing a shirtless guy with nothing in his hands and full light gaining on him. It's coddling him to not shoot him
under those circumstances? WTH?

It's simple. Either you think the guy shooting didn't know what he was doing or you think all the ones who failed to fire were the negligent ones.

You can't have it both ways.



Of course it's legal but the guy didn't know SWAT was out there. He heard a noise and opened the door.

You know I do feel sorry for the officer who shot him. It likely will haunt him forever. I don't think he committed a crime. I do think he was too trigger happy and the department should pay a settlement. And he should not be a member of SWAT.

You should have a super good eye and calm temperament for that IMO.

From my understanding he made the wrong hand movements and they thought there were seriously injured/dead people inside with gasoline and preps for a fire in the making. That's what the knew. If that were the case and he'd dropped a match, or turned and shot his kid, we'd all be blaming them today.

If they had a call of a suicidal man, alone, in his home, it would be different. That Swatter set that man up and set the cops up.

 

[rsd1200]

See, some of us have become terrified of cops and what they might do. I asked an off duty cop in uniform to leave my house a few years back and go outside and talk because I didn't want him around my dogs with a gun. There had been a string of incidents where cops had shot dogs unfairly, and while I knew this person and had trusted him in my home before he became a cop, I no longer wanted him near my dogs when he had a gun. Interesting that the man only made me nervous after he became a cop. I couldn't help but feel that way.

I've worked with plenty who seemed like good cops, but ultimately, I don't want them around unless absolutely necessary now that I have seen what can happen if you make them nervous. I prefer to deal with as much as I possibly could on my own instead of calling them, especially since twice in my life they have put me in danger. They were the reason I had to get a gun and my conceal carry when they stupidly outed me to the person I called on once.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

I'm with you. I'm cordial and pleasant but I'd rather not have to deal with them. I do not trust the large majority, and, like you, I do not trust they'd not shoot my dogs (or me, b/c I'm a total klutz and would probably fall over the threshold and fall, flailing right at them, and my son is hard of hearing, so... )

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Is it legal --if such a situation unfolds like the one that resulted in Andrew's death -- to NOT go outside your house immediately, but to call 911 and ask what is going on ... and see if you can explain there's not a threat; and that you'll come outside peacefully, arms in the air, etc. ???

That would be the best thing you could do. But given the curiosity of most people I don't know how many would do that.

Personally if a large number of police showed up at my house I would call the police station and ask what the heck is going on. But most people do not take the time to memorize the non emergency phone numbers of the police station and fire departments close to them. But they should, because telling a dispatcher at the station that there is no hostage at your address can defuse the whole situation a lot faster.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I don’t know if it’s legal, but it’s a brilliant idea!! Just because there are flashing police lights outside, doesn’t mean they’re there for you and that you have to go greet them. In fact, it might be fake LE, trying to lure you out. Call me cautious, but that idea sounds very smart. As a matter of fact, I’m not sure I’d even answer my door under those circumstances. They can call me on the bullhorn.

There is nothing illegal about taking a few moments to call the dispatcher and find out what is going on. But I would advise calling the non emergency number of the station closest to you as there are some laws concerning the use of the 911 system for non emergency purposes. But then again if police are shouting for you to come out with hands in the air it could be considered an emergency I guess.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I have walked outside my house to see what police action was going on next door. I bet that is what he did. I think that it is highly likely that he didn't think that it was him the police were after for a few seconds, and then it was over. This is a SWAT team with special weapons and body armour and they just go in guns blazing and screaming at him.

BBM

It really is hard to say what LE did since i wasn't there, there is no way for me to know what exactly went on.

But I will say this. I would never just walk outside when I saw a large number of police cars. What if police are chasing an active shooter that ran down your street? That's a good way to get yourself taken hostage for real. Or what if there is a shoot out between police and your neighbor? Or just some random occupants of a car driving past your house?

Or if police are in an active chase what if one of the drivers, suspect or officer loses control of the car and runs up on your porch?

I feel like I should insert one thing here. Bullets have no eyes. So if a bullet is intended for a police officer or a suspect and you are standing on your porch out of curiosity what makes you think that bullet won't hit you?

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

This is just terrible, but there are hoax calls and the caller who phoned with the hoax was in CA wasn't he? How did they not pick up that he was calling from a phone that was not in that local area? I am pretty sure that all emergency calls now, display the number with the area code visible. Someone in California calls 911 and claims that he is holding hostages in KS?

BBM

Just because it is an out of state area code does not mean you are not there in the state. For instance, if you recently moved from CA to KS and had not yet changed your cell phone number, then you would still have a CA area code. Or what if you were traveling cross country? Do you change your cell number every time you cross a state line? Or into Canada?

 

[animlzrule]

What you are describing is immediately after the officer involved incident. What you do not see is 2, 3, 5 years down the road when the officer is an unemployed drunk or drug addict because he/she cannot live with killing an unarmed person.

Could you live with killing another human being? Even if it was judged justifiable? I know I couldn't.

LE is trained to kill. A lot of LE is made up of ex-military, who are also trained to kill. Of course they can live with themselves, it's what they're trained to do. People who can't live with killing another human being don't go in to LE or the military. I don't understand how this argument can possibly be made in good faith.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

LE is trained to kill. A lot of LE is made up of ex-military, who are also trained to kill. Of course they can live with themselves, it's what they're trained to do. People who can't live with killing another human being don't go in to LE or the military. I don't understand how this argument can possibly be made in good faith.

BBM

Specifically, how do you train someone not to have a conscience? How do you train empathy or compassion out of a human being?

What you are saying is that LE and military are trained to be robots devoid of all human feelings.

I don't think your argument can possibly be made in good faith. If it could then why are there thousands of war veterans out there that are struggling every day with PTSD and other mental problems because they had to kill another human being?

JMO

 

[animlzrule]

BBM

Specifically, how do you train someone not to have a conscience? How do you train empathy or compassion out of a human being?

What you are saying is that LE and military are trained to be robots devoid of all human feelings.

I don't think your argument can possibly be made in good faith. If it could then why are there thousands of war veterans out there that are struggling every day with PTSD and other mental problems because they had to kill another human being?

JMO

What I am saying is that there is a certain type of person who goes into the military and LE.

We are going to have to agree to disagree.

 

[Tawny]

An innocent man, guilty of only besting a nemesis in an online game, is dead because of police actions and we are perfectly ok with that. Shrug our shoulders and say the police must be stressed and scared, forgetting the innocent man who had done nothing wrong and what HE may have been feeling in the final moments of his ****ing life. That is absolutely gross.

 

[Jennifer17]

An innocent man, guilty of only besting a nemesis in an online game, is dead because of police actions and we are perfectly ok with that. Shrug our shoulders and say the police must be stressed and scared, forgetting the innocent man who had done nothing wrong and what HE may have been feeling in the final moments of his ****ing life. That is absolutely gross.

Yes. And I wondering why the only bodycam footage released is the grainy one from across the street where you can't see if he is moving or not, and not ones closer to the house.

 

[mister happy]

An innocent man, guilty of only besting a nemesis in an online game, is dead because of police actions and we are perfectly ok with that. Shrug our shoulders and say the police must be stressed and scared, forgetting the innocent man who had done nothing wrong and what HE may have been feeling in the final moments of his ****ing life. That is absolutely gross.

Actually, the man killed was not involved in online gaming whatsoever. He didn't even know those who were involved.