Found Deceased Ks - Lucas Hernandez, 5, Wichita, 17 Feb 2018 #27

[liltexans]

Tricia was Levi Page's guest on his Crime and Scandal podcast this week, discussing Lucas' case. Here's the link to the podcast:

Audioboom / What happened to Lucas Hernandez?

 

[Deleted member 221026]

This has bugged me for a while - why is Glass in parenthesis is it because that is not what the child said? Did he say mom, stepmom, she, or Emily and they substituted the word Glass?

“It was reported that when asked about his bruises, all Lucas would say is that (Glass) ‘doesn’t like me any more,'” the document noted. The state agency investigated and determined there was not enough evidence to support the allegation and closed the case, according to the document.

New details emerge about missing 5-year-old Kansas boy

I might have to start backwards but where did the “Emily doesn’t like me anymore” come from then? Thanks for bringing that up, Busylady. I missed that the first time around. Personally, my own opinion, I don’t hold much stock in that document. So many reasons why. But number one: why would it be stipulated (if that’s what happened) and accepted by the judge that Emily has BPD unless there were medical reports to substantiate it. Then the whole meth and heroin thing. If drug tests were mandated and included, I have a hard time believing marijuana did not also show up during those tests. Then her attorney says EG has never tested positive for MJ. The ex’s statements were accepted as fact (btw, I believe every word he said). It seems there are possibilities for future complications to me. The case with the ex was treated as only a formality so it could get off the judge’s schedule and filed into the case worker’s filing cabinet. I was not impressed. Don’t even get me started with the endometriosis. I have to stop now and hit post before I write a run on essay.

ETA: I just remembered the phrase came from one of Lucas’ loving relatives. I stand with those relatives and accept it as fact.

 

[Deleted member 221026]

Meh. Meth users will buy in bulk and use half, sell half, that way they are getting supplied for free. That's the most common type of meth dealer I've encountered. A lot of the high level dealers/cooks won't be users, but I can pretty much guarantee EG isn't getting supplied by a higher up type person. It's likely a group of people who use and sell, and depending on who has money to get the stash is who is the dealer that day/week.

Exactly!

 

[Busylady]

I might have to start backwards but where did the “Emily doesn’t like me anymore” come from then? Thanks for bringing that up, Busylady. I missed that the first time around. Personally, my own opinion, I don’t hold much stock in that document. So many reasons why. But number one: why would it be stipulated (if that’s what happened) and accepted by the judge that Emily has BPD unless there were medical reports to substantiate it. Then the whole meth and heroin thing. If drug tests were mandated and included, I have a hard time believing marijuana did not also show up during those tests. Then her attorney says EG has never tested positive for MJ. The ex’s statements were accepted as fact (btw, I believe every word he said). It seems there are possibilities for future complications to me. The case with the ex was treated as only a formality so it could get off the judge’s schedule and filed into the case worker’s filing cabinet. I was not impressed. Don’t even get me started with the endometriosis. I have to stop now and hit post before I write a run on essay.

ETA: I just remembered the phrase came from one of Lucas’ loving relatives. I stand with those relatives and accept it as fact.

The Emily doesn't like me came from a report made to DCF - I am not sure if a relative reported that Lucas said that or if Lucas actually told someone from DCF that when they investigated. Either way I believe 100% that Lucas did say that.
May 16, 2017: DCF, the Kansas child protection agency, received the first of two reports of suspected abuse involving Lucas. Glass and an “unknown perpetrator” were suspected. The boy reportedly had bruising in the shape of a hand on his left arm, bruising on his left cheek and on his bottom.

“It was reported that when asked about his bruises, all Lucas would say is that (Glass) 'doesn’t like me any more,'" it says.

DCF investigated, “determined that there was not enough evidence to support the allegation. DCF closed the case.”
Horrific new details emerge in court document about missing 5-year-old Lucas Hernandez

 

[Deleted member 221026]

Exactly!

And so many of them remain under probation of some level, they stick together. If one goes down, they all go down. There is no honorable captain of the ship.

 

[Deleted member 221026]

The Emily doesn't like me came from a report made to DCF - I am not sure if a relative reported that Lucas said that or if Lucas actually told someone from DCF that when they investigated. Either way I believe 100% that Lucas did say that.
May 16, 2017: DCF, the Kansas child protection agency, received the first of two reports of suspected abuse involving Lucas. Glass and an “unknown perpetrator” were suspected. The boy reportedly had bruising in the shape of a hand on his left arm, bruising on his left cheek and on his bottom.

“It was reported that when asked about his bruises, all Lucas would say is that (Glass) 'doesn’t like me any more,'" it says.

DCF investigated, “determined that there was not enough evidence to support the allegation. DCF closed the case.”
Horrific new details emerge in court document about missing 5-year-old Lucas Hernandez

First of all, who the f is “unknown perpetrator”?
Secondly, why mention him if he is unknown? It’s stated in the document “they know they don’t know.” I agree. Not.much.of.anything.
Sorry performance on several levels of supervision and discipline within state government and the justice system.

 

[WildcatRunner]

I might have to start backwards but where did the “Emily doesn’t like me anymore” come from then? Thanks for bringing that up, Busylady. I missed that the first time around. Personally, my own opinion, I don’t hold much stock in that document. So many reasons why. But number one: why would it be stipulated (if that’s what happened) and accepted by the judge that Emily has BPD unless there were medical reports to substantiate it. Then the whole meth and heroin thing. If drug tests were mandated and included, I have a hard time believing marijuana did not also show up during those tests. Then her attorney says EG has never tested positive for MJ. The ex’s statements were accepted as fact (btw, I believe every word he said). It seems there are possibilities for future complications to me. The case with the ex was treated as only a formality so it could get off the judge’s schedule and filed into the case worker’s filing cabinet. I was not impressed. Don’t even get me started with the endometriosis. I have to stop now and hit post before I write a run on essay.

ETA: I just remembered the phrase came from one of Lucas’ loving relatives. I stand with those relatives and accept it as fact.

I think the question was meant to explain that Lucas did not call her "Glass," not that he didn't make the statement. He probably said "she," and the document writer changed the word for clarity.

 

[Deleted member 221026]

I think the question was meant to explain that Lucas did not call her "Glass," not that he didn't make the statement. He probably said "she," and the document writer changed the word for clarity.

You make so much sense. Will you be my clarity guru in case I get in trouble on down the road? I’m afraid it’s going to be a long weary trip.

 

[MsMarple]

Sorry but no. I've had to grab, push, etc my children out of harms ways more times than I can count. N E V E R O N C E did I leave red marks or welts that lasted for hours, even when they were running for the street and my big butt had to tackle them to the ground.

IMO this is the crux of the issue. I'd bet dollars to donuts that every parent here has had to grab their young'uns at least once in order to prevent something awful from happening but did not leave marks in the form of finger impressions on their chest.

I'd almost swallow JH's version if the marks were on the child's arm but given they were distinct and on the kid's chest... well, that's hard to excuse away IMO.

And we have documented prior DV incidents in the home - enough IMO to think that EG and JH both have some major anger issues. So why disregard the child's version? At least he had photographic evidence versus JH's version of his accidentally hitting the boy.

So IMO violence was an accepted way to express anger in that home and both adults chose to make it the norm. It ain't my norm and I'll never understand the dynamics. MOO.

 

[WildcatRunner]

You make so much sense. Will you be my clarity guru in case I get in trouble on down the road? I’m afraid it’s going to be a long weary trip.

Hahaha I'm not sure you want to use me as a "clarity guru." Many days, that could be the blind leading the blind!

Thanks for the words clarity guru, those gave me a needed laugh.

 

[Deleted member 221026]

Ok, so we're giving JH a pass on child abuse now too? Seriously, everyone was/is furious that no one listened to Lucas when he said Emily was being mean to him and hurting him. We went through SEVERAL pages about how children need to be listened to and believed. These children are victims of the exact same environment, but since they're not pointing their fingers in the right direction, now it might not REALLY be abuse. The report that the dad filed said this wasn't the first time it had happened. I'm just not able to wrap my head around this at all to be honest.

I certainly have made it quite clear already that I despise that man and anxiously wait until the day he suffers the consequences of his actions and inactions and is forced to take accountability. I want him prosecuted to the fullest extent of the legal law. In the meantime, I believe he is suffering. Not as deep as Lucas had to endure in his short life, but suffering.

 

[WildcatRunner]

IMO this is the crux of the issue. I'd bet dollars to donuts that every parent here has had to grab their young'uns at least once in order to prevent something awful from happening but did not leave marks in the form of finger impressions on their chest.

I'd almost swallow JH's version if the marks were on the child's arm but given they were distinct and on the kid's chest... well, that's hard to excuse away IMO.

And we have documented prior DV incidents in the home - enough IMO to think that EG and JH both have some major anger issues. So why disregard the child's version? At least he had photographic evidence versus JH's version of his accidentally hitting the boy.

So IMO violence was an accepted way to express anger in that home and both adults chose to make it the norm. It ain't my norm and I'll never understand the dynamics. MOO.

Also, if by some feat it was completely accidental, I think the boy would have known because JH would have been clearly apologetic when it happened. Also, I don't recall what JH said happened, but I don't remember thinking it sounded like that was the case when I heard it.

I had a relative's kid get hurt on my watch several months ago. A 2 year old with a huge lump on the head. I didn't physically cause it, but I also shouldn't have looked away from a 2 year old for as long as I did. But I owned up to that, and certainly didn't make a far fetched excuse, or blame the kiddo. I was the adult, so I should have done better. I knew her parents wouldn't be angry at me, or think I did it intentionally, but I still made sure they knew it happened the moment they came to pick her up. I feel like that's the appropriate reaction for an injured kid, if it really happened accidentally.

 

[Kamm5]

I am addicted to this site. I just feel like till she is in jail . I just have to keep checking back in. In reference to above comments JH does not get a break. Failure to protect is my biggest . The one person in life you should trust is your parents and JH mom tried to tell him. She had nothing to gain no agenda. He has horrible judgement in the people he trust . His ignorance and judgement in people cost him his child. And even with glaring evidence in front of him .. his judgement was still completely off.

 

[ScarlettLin]

IMO this is the crux of the issue. I'd bet dollars to donuts that every parent here has had to grab their young'uns at least once in order to prevent something awful from happening but did not leave marks in the form of finger impressions on their chest.

I'd almost swallow JH's version if the marks were on the child's arm but given they were distinct and on the kid's chest... well, that's hard to excuse away IMO.

And we have documented prior DV incidents in the home - enough IMO to think that EG and JH both have some major anger issues. So why disregard the child's version? At least he had photographic evidence versus JH's version of his accidentally hitting the boy.

So IMO violence was an accepted way to express anger in that home and both adults chose to make it the norm. It ain't my norm and I'll never understand the dynamics. MOO.

I could not agree more. I have come in contact with people for whom violence is the answer to everything. They are always shocked when I speak up. I won’t stand for it. I won’t stay in that environment and I’ll be danged if someone is gonna put a hand on a child in anger. My kids have gotten a swat on the bottom or on the hand sure. Accidental bumps of course. Have I ever left a mark on any child out of anger - no. Have I ever left a mark on a child as an accident- well when I was a child I accidentally hit my cousin with a baseball bat, he walked up behind me while I was at bat. Ran him straight to his mother I think I was crying harder than he was. I’ve bonked heads accidentally, accidentally bumped someone reaching for something, grabbed something from a child they shouldn’t play with, snatched a kid out of the way of traffic, pulled children from water, snatched a hand that was reaching for a hot stove...none of those things have ever left a mark. I didn’t mean to, I didn’t mean to leave a mark, and it was an accident are all three different things. Very different things. IMO

 

[Steelslady]

The affidavit regard JH and the battery charge

http://media.graytvinc.com/documents/JONATHAN+HERNANDEZ.pdf

I am sure hoping we don't go down the road that the child is lying about what happened, we should not make him more a victim than he already is by not believing him.

Agreed- this is alarming me that some are questioning this of the little boy. His father went to the police station the next morning with photos and proof of this happening. Not to mention, BOTH boys told him immediately after they got into the car what had transpired. The little boy admitted he sprayed air freshener around the room and Jonathan was trying to get it away from him. He also said as soon as Jonathan saw him start to cry, Jonathan knocked him onto the couch and caused those finger marks. To call him a liar would be to call Lucas a liar- both boys deserve better respect and compassion and understanding.

 

[wolvesjohnblack]

I keep seeing people using the JO never seen JH be violent.Do we no how long she was around him with kids?He had to know what was going on and to cut Lucas's only family off who cared about him off Is just wrong.

 

[kkdj]

My strongest sense is that EG's ex did not want his boys visiting their mother unsupervised. He suspected she was on heavy drugs again and the courts are slow to move. When JH shoved his stepson, leaving a mark and cursed at his mother, I think EG's ex saw an immediate fix to his long term fight to protect his boys from their mother. He filed a police report and I would think got a temporary restraining order protecting his boys from JH. But I do think his true goal was to keep his boys away from their mother as he knew there was heavy drug abuse and violence in the home. EG got around it stating that she kicked JH out. Of course, even though JH might be out of town when she had her boys she still had Lucas to watch. I'll bet she slicked up her story saying that she had to help take care of Lucas when JH was out of town because they also had a daughter together. I doubt her ex just believed her, but he had court orders to follow and couldn't risk being in contempt. When I think about EG lying that JO had Lucas on VD, I think it worked for her to tell her ex that also when they exchanged the boys for her visitation.....further evidence that she wasn't with JH anymore. I do think she saw her boys on VD and without Lucas. That was the 14th. Then on the 16th she again goes out in public without Lucas. We know now that he was left home alone. I think her leaving him out of outings was playing into her convincing her ex that she was no longer with JH, so that she could be alone with her boys. Lucas was simply in her way. Now that she was able to have unsupervised visitation with her boys, after using the logic that she had been looking after Lucas on her own, she no longer needed him. He was no longer an asset to her goal. Once JH pushed her son and the ex got authorities involved, EG again felt threatened about her relationship with her boys. I suspect Lucas was going to go missing soon no matter what, but the LL stopping by and speaking with him might have just enraged her enough to expedite her plan that night. I think drugs were involved that night also.

 

[Steelslady]

Ok, so we're giving JH a pass on child abuse now too? Seriously, everyone was/is furious that no one listened to Lucas when he said Emily was being mean to him and hurting him. We went through SEVERAL pages about how children need to be listened to and believed. These children are victims of the exact same environment, but since they're not pointing their fingers in the right direction, now it might not REALLY be abuse. The report that the dad filed said this wasn't the first time it had happened. I'm just not able to wrap my head around this at all to be honest.

I'm with you. I just can't wrap my head around it, giving JH a free pass.

I guess it's just best to agree to disagree and disregard the rest. Maybe some folks minds have changed since Lucas was found- it could be just the soft side of a parent having compassion for him because his son is deceased. I understand that part, hence why I am trying not to say too much right now about JH. Still, let's call a spade a spade here.

 

[PetDetective]

After listening to @Tricia on the podcast, I had an epiphany in regards to the monkey bars excuse.

My daughter is 6 and quite small for her age. (She eats all day, every day, she’s simply petite) There is NO WAY I would let her attempt to go on monkey bars w/o me being right under her so I could catch her if her hand slipped. There’s also no way she’d go across them w/o me being right there. IDK how adventurous Lucas was, but now that I have really thought about this scenario, I doubt it even more.

IF it is true, I wonder if her evil butt left him dangling and watched him fall on purpose. Best scenario would be that she wasn’t watching him. Any way you slice it, it was her fault.

 

[quidnunc247]

Oh boy. I am fully prepared for backlash on this, but it's only my opinion and the way I see things based on my own life experiences.

I don't really put Jonathan on the same shelf as people like EG. I don't even really consider what he did abuse. Was it a bad way of handling things? Yes. Absolutely. But he pushed the kid. Roughly maybe, but he pushed him down onto a couch. He left red marks, not bruises. And so what if he used a "loud voice". I do too. All. The. Time. It's the only voice my teen daughter understands. We are raising a generation of children who are too coddled and have no coping skills. And this systematic outcry of "OMG, he pushed that kid", or "OMG, he yells at his kids" is a huge contributor to that. Jamie has told us that Jonathan is not an abuser. I was not in that house that day, nor were any of us. We don't know how it all went down. I personally think everyone involved was over reacting. Does this excuse JH from not protecting Lucas? NO WAY. But I also don't doubt that he loved Lucas and never did anything to harm him. I am well aware I am in a lonely corner on this. That's ok.

I agree. I don’t think JH abused EG’s children. I think had Lucas not disappeared, JH would never have been charged with anything related to the incident. The children’s father had to do what he thought best to protect his children - that meant insuring they were never in that house again. I equate it to the endangerment charge that EG received for MH. It was a means to an end of protecting MH.

In my mind, I imagine that the child was playing with the air freshener and not listening when JH told him to stop. If he pushed him onto the couch it would have bruised the chest. A red mark would come from a smack - perhaps a quick smack that happened as a sort of reflex if he was sprayed in the eyes.

I am in no way condoning JH striking the child (or any child), but I think this was an isolated incident. EG had an alleged history of abusing LH and has a quick temper.