KS - Patricia Kimmi, 58, Horton, 6 Nov 2009 - #2

[dsntslp]

I'll check on the hay guy today - I'm not sure how she found him or knew of him.

There are a few of those such people whose names have been given to LE.

And I don't know bars where he hangs out - I'm sure there are troublemakers in every bar, but I don't know his places.

Could she have found the hay guy using the internet to access these ad's?

http://www.holtonrecorder.com/class.html

Off to check Craigs list and ads for the local and surrounding communities for red dually's on the chance it may have been driven for a test drive or is now for sale.

 

[nursebeeme]

It was.

who saw the truck? Where did they see it?

 

[eyestowardHeaven]

Could she have found the hay guy using the internet to access these ad's?

http://www.holtonrecorder.com/class.html

Off to check Craigs list and ads for the local and surrounding communities for red dually's on the chance it may have been driven for a test drive or is now for sale.

I haven't found out yet how she knew the guy. I think most times she went by recommendations of others as far as a vet, repairs, etc. Just this morning, one of my brothers told me what they knew of him - said he knew him from another place and that he was a really nice guy. Vehicle descriptions don't match.

Good idea on the test drive angle. We've been looking at classifieds but didn't think of that.

 

[MindonMom]

who saw the truck? Where did they see it?

This information can't be released. LE is pretty confident that it was a dually truck.

 

[LaLaw2000]

Actually; what if the ballcap, money clip, and the truck were not really a part of Patricia's disappearance? How can LE know for sure? They surely do not need to be closeminded on what they term as evidence, IMO. Seems they would consider all avenues to further the investigation.

MOO

 

[eyestowardHeaven]

Actually; what if the ballcap, money clip, and the truck were not really a part of Patricia's disappearance? How can LE know for sure? They surely do not need to be closeminded on what they term as evidence, IMO. Seems they would consider all avenues to further the investigation.

MOO

There are parts of this that we can't talk about because it's not been released by LE, but I don't think at all that they're being closeminded. I think no matter how well this was or wasn't planned out by the perpetrator, what he DIDN'T plan on was Mom escaping the vehicle. I think she bailed out of the truck when they went by the house that had lights on, thinking this was her chance for help. And my sister-in-law reminded us shortly after we discovered that she HAD gotten out of the truck, that Mom always told us your chances of living are less the farther away someone takes you.

I believe the items were left there in the struggle and that the guy didn't even realize until later that he left them or knew they were there but didn't feel he could risk taking the time to pick them up.

I think if he wanted to plant something to throw us off, he would have done it at the house. How could he have been sure that we'd find the 2nd crime scene?

 

[eyestowardHeaven]

I just heard from TES and due to the lovely weather here in KS right now (a whole lotta snow), they are not able to bring their plan in this week. They hope to be here next week - crossing my fingers.

 

[MindonMom]

Actually; what if the ballcap, money clip, and the truck were not really a part of Patricia's disappearance? How can LE know for sure? They surely do not need to be closeminded on what they term as evidence, IMO. Seems they would consider all avenues to further the investigation.

MOO

I would put the hat and a dually truck at 95% sure. The money clip I would say is a definite 100%.

The way I see it is, LE can't release every detail and piece of evidence they have or WHEN they catch the guy, he can have his defense built around every detail already.

LE is still following leads, and could release more info if these leads fall apart or dry up. As I understand it, new leads are still coming in.

 

[dsntslp]

The poster at TES does not have pic's of the cap and money clip. Perhaps this should be remedied?

http://texasequusearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/KimmiPatricia1.pdf

 

[dsntslp]

I just heard from TES and due to the lovely weather here in KS right now (a whole lotta snow), they are not able to bring their plan in this week. They hope to be here next week - crossing my fingers.

Do you mean the drone plane with cameras?

 

[LaLaw2000]

I am thankful that new leads are coming in. I remember Patricia Kimmi and all of her family in my prayers.

 

[eyestowardHeaven]

Do you mean the drone plane with cameras?

YES!!! That's exactly what she said.

 

[Nevermorejoyous]

Did that quarry pond ever get dragged and/or searched?

 

[perhaps]

She probably would open the door to most, if not all, the people from our church. But who? It's not like we have a huge congregation but I don't know of anyone who would have motive or who fits the evidence we have.

Hey Rita -

You all know more about the evidence, for sure, so you're better able to rule in or rule out ideas/suggestions. Random thoughts here --- going back to her inner circle and working out from there ..... it had just crossed my mind several times that your Mom probably felt fairly comfortable with other Church members, so I was wondering if perhaps there was someone there who might have been smitten with her (unbeknowns to anyone else) and maybe he decided to act out on his interest so paid her a visit. She might have stepped outside since she recognized him but then rebuffed his advances and he escalated - hence, a struggle, etc.
Many folks have posted some well thought-out ideas and suggestions, but I had to mention this because I just kept pondering it.
Keeping you all in my thoughts.

 

[eyestowardHeaven]

I am thankful that new leads are coming in. I remember Patricia Kimmi and all of her family in my prayers.

Thank you so much.

Did that quarry pond ever get dragged and/or searched?

I know it wasn't dragged, but was searched by helicopter. They searched on an overcast day and were able to see to the bottom of many bodies of water. I think we'll be able to do more when TES gets involved.

Hey Rita -

You all know more about the evidence, for sure, so you're better able to rule in or rule out ideas/suggestions. Random thoughts here --- going back to her inner circle and working out from there ..... it had just crossed my mind several times that your Mom probably felt fairly comfortable with other Church members, so I was wondering if perhaps there was someone there who might have been smitten with her (unbeknowns to anyone else) and maybe he decided to act out on his interest so paid her a visit. She might have stepped outside since she recognized him but then rebuffed his advances and he escalated - hence, a struggle, etc.
Many folks have posted some well thought-out ideas and suggestions, but I had to mention this because I just kept pondering it.
Keeping you all in my thoughts.

That is an angle to think about, but the problem is this - we would never have suspected ANYONE to do something like this in the first place. So, how do you know who to begin with? Basically, everyone is a suspect. It feels like a needle in a haystack. I don't know who to suspect from our church. There is no one I can think of who could do something like this. No one who fits the evidence.

 

[perhaps]

That is an angle to think about, but the problem is this - we would never have suspected ANYONE to do something like this in the first place. So, how do you know who to begin with? Basically, everyone is a suspect. It feels like a needle in a haystack. I don't know who to suspect from our church. There is no one I can think of who could do something like this. No one who fits the evidence.[/quote]


When you say "No one who fits the evidence", then I take it that there is specific evidence you're unable to talk about right now but that you know would eliminate fellow Church members. And you sure don't need to be expending energy pursuing useless ideas - I understand that. I'm sure you all are pretty much drained at this point. As I said before, I had to throw the thought out there because it just kept nagging at me.

 

[eyestowardHeaven]

That is an angle to think about, but the problem is this - we would never have suspected ANYONE to do something like this in the first place. So, how do you know who to begin with? Basically, everyone is a suspect. It feels like a needle in a haystack. I don't know who to suspect from our church. There is no one I can think of who could do something like this. No one who fits the evidence.

When you say "No one who fits the evidence", then I take it that there is specific evidence you're unable to talk about right now but that you know would eliminate fellow Church members. And you sure don't need to be expending energy pursuing useless ideas - I understand that. I'm sure you all are pretty much drained at this point. As I said before, I had to throw the thought out there because it just kept nagging at me.[/QUOTE]

Oh, I hope I did not offend you, I don't mean for you to think it is a useless idea. I was more rambling about how hopeless it seems to suspect everyone and not be able to narrow things down very quickly. Even w/ the evidence we have - the money clip and camo hat - I have no idea who in our church might have those items. The camo hat is not something one would usually wear into church. The only person who drives a truck like that (who we as a family did not suspect in the first place) has been officially ruled out.

We are sooooooooo frustrated right now. If she didn't suspect this person of doing harm to her and opened the door to them, how will we? It makes me crazy.

We truly appreciate everyone's ideas, so don't hesitate to throw them out there.

 

[perhaps]

Oh, I hope I did not offend you, I don't mean for you to think it is a useless idea. I was more rambling about how hopeless it seems to suspect everyone and not be able to narrow things down very quickly. Even w/ the evidence we have - the money clip and camo hat - I have no idea who in our church might have those items. The camo hat is not something one would usually wear into church. The only person who drives a truck like that (who we as a family did not suspect in the first place) has been officially ruled out.

We are sooooooooo frustrated right now. If she didn't suspect this person of doing harm to her and opened the door to them, how will we? It makes me crazy.

We truly appreciate everyone's ideas, so don't hesitate to throw them out there.[/quote]

Oh heavens no, Rita - there's no way at all that you offended me. I can only try to imagine how frustrated you all must be. My heart aches for all of you. And if any other ideas pop into my head - yes, I'll post them.

 

[Daisy_May]

I would put the hat and a dually truck at 95% sure. The money clip I would say is a definite 100%.

The way I see it is, LE can't release every detail and piece of evidence they have or WHEN they catch the guy, he can have his defense built around every detail already.

LE is still following leads, and could release more info if these leads fall apart or dry up. As I understand it, new leads are still coming in.

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I'm glad you guys are giving law enforcement the benefit of the doubt. So many people bash them. They don't have a lot of experience w/ kidnappings/ kidnappings gone wrong or whatever this is. They all have to want to do a good job, I'm sure. People, strangers (like me), all over the place are wrapped up in this case so you KNOW the local PD feel for this family and want to help.

And, as another poster said, what if none of this has anything to do with it? Well... we can't even entertain that thought for a second because all any of us can go by is the little information we have and everyone has to hang on to that for hope that something will pan out.

Still looking for red trucks that match that description everywhere in Topeka! If I see one, I will try for a tag with everything I've got. Weird though- I haven't seen any... and when this all started I was telling myself that they were probably very common. (guess not anymore)

 

[MeoW333]

Rita, do you know if rental car agencies were checked for at least a 100 mile radius to see if one of them has a red dually that is available for rental? It may not be at a given location if it is being rented at the time, it could be anywhere in the state, however the companies would keep record of what vehicles they rent out, the makes and models.

Also, just throwing this theory out there. Would it be possible the person who abducted Pat had parked down the road where the second crime scene was and somehow contained your mother enough to walk from the house to the second crime scene. Possibly at the second crime scene she regained some "composure" (lack of a better term, if she was "subdued somehow prior) and was able to put up a fight when she knew they were putting her inside a truck?