Identified! KY - Eddyville, Lake Barkley, WhtMale 35-50, UP75, wrapped in tire chains anchored by hydraulic jack, May’99 - Roger Dale Parham (Wanted by FBI)

[carbuff]

@carbuff I have wondered the same, only because I know a guy that went off a fishing boat on Lake MI, he was immediately rescued tho. He was in violent waters with the rudest winds ever, but his “rigging” took him overboard once he lost control of it.
Let’s just assume alcoholic beverages might have been involved here. It’d be very easy to have a “slip & fall”, maybe not going overboard, but seriously injured. I’m afraid not all crew members would want to report. Only because I think the captain/pilot of the watercraft might lose his job if he allowed an intoxicated person to work. Radioing the Coast Guard would be the only option for help, imo. So? Pitch him over? I’m going to speculate a whole lot of booze is involved in barge work, not by all, but by many.
(I’m trying to think of a situation requiring him to have the jack attached to chains, I guess only to maneuver it or retrieve it?) Idk

I was thinking he might have been working on deck with the jack when the chains came loose and he got tangled in the whole mess and taken overboard, with no wrongdoing necessary by anybody.

Is there a national agency that manages barge traffic and qualifications? Do the Coast Guard rules apply on rivers? Does anybody keep records of accidents? Are they covered by OSHA?

So many questions...

 

[Trudie]

To my knowledge, the CG patrols all waterways.
I see them on the OH all the time.
Lake B not have a high patrol presence, imo.

 

[Trudie]

I don’t think he was put out in Lake B. I think he drifted in. Too many other water sources in the immediate area.

 

[branmuffin]

I believe water flows north to south.

Water flow in rivers takes the least line of resistance. All the Great Lakes eventually flow into Lake Ontario then into the St. Lawrence then into the Atlantic Ocean which is east. The Nile River in Africa flows North through several countries ending up in the Mediterranean which is northbound. Same with the Rhine; it flows through Switzerland ending up in the North Sea. The Colorado River flows west into the Pacific.

 

[MadMcGoo]

I don’t think he was put out in Lake B. I think he drifted in. Too many other water sources in the immediate area.

this made me chuckle as it is an understatement...and applicable to almost all our cases! Thus quickly becoming the bane of my Kentucky existence! Sorry, I know what you mean, but I needed a little comic relief.

 

[Trudie]

this made me chuckle as it is an understatement...and applicable to almost all our cases! Thus quickly becoming the bane of my Kentucky existence! Sorry, I know what you mean, but I needed a little comic relief.

Gotcha!

 

[Trudie]

I was thinking he might have been working on deck with the jack when the chains came loose and he got tangled in the whole mess and taken overboard, with no wrongdoing necessary by anybody.

We have so little in the way of facts. Even his height seems questionable. The chains? I’m done with chains, lol.
I do believe someone working with equipment and chains could go overboard, becoming entangled in their gear, especially if fighting to get free & come up from the water.
The captain would not even know if someone fell from a barge, imo, unless he witnessed it. Upon discovering a missing crew member, I think he’d be thinking to the last time the missing was seen. I know I would.

 

[Trudie]

Because tugboat crew members often hook barges up to the tugboat so that the tugboat can tow the barges, they run the risk of falling off of the barges into the water. There is also danger of crew members losing their footing when jumping from barge to barge when hooking up multiple barges to one tugboat because the decks are slippery. The crew members also face injury from lifting heavy shackles and chains used in their towing work.

Slips and Falls on Tugboats | Washington Boating Injury Lawyers

 

[Trudie]

To Report Or Not To Report? That Should Never Be The Question — MOPS Marine License Insurance

What?

 

[branmuffin]

There are lots of fascinating cases on WS. The Sumter Does are highest on my list. Being from Ontario the Sherman murders are right up there too. But I find this particular UID also fascinating. Mainly because there is so much STUFF found with the body but much of the information is confusing and contradictory depending on where you look.

I just read the newspaper article further up the thread. The weight and height are not the same as the John Doe profile. I'm also confused about the size of pants versus height/weight. Pant size 38/30 would be the size a stout man of short stature would wear, maybe someone 5 foot 7 or 8, either that or someone with normal appearance except for a huge beer belly. Yet the description of the deceased is always in the 6 foot to 6 foot 3 range (at least in the newspaper description).

I'm trying to imagine where this DP went into the river. If I presume he was a trucker, then I think one of the most logical places for a body dump would be off the bridge on Hwy 24 across the Cumberland River. It's about two miles south to Lyon county where the body was discovered. If the body was found in Eddyville Lyon County did the local police initially investigate then hand it over to the state police? I'm not sure if that is significant but timing is everything when a body that has been submerged is taken out of the water, especially for autopsy. Putrefaction escalates. There is no mention of adipocere tissue being present which usually occurs when a body is submerged in cold water. Corpses of people with more adipose tissue (females and overweight people) would be more likely. I don't believe the waters of Lake Barkley are cold enough, even in winter, to create adipocere.

Continuing with the presumption he was a trucker, and he was driving a truck, what happened to it? Were the items the killer used to submerge a body, part of the trucker's inventory when traveling back and forth from a temperate climate to one where tire chains were required?

I'm wondering whether the button is a cap snap used on wallets to close the billfold on the outside. They can be really decorative or just display the logo of the manufacturer or company.

The towels wrapped around the deceased's neck are interesting. Quite a long time ago, a young girl was murdered in Toronto. Her name was Kelly Mombourquette. The men accused of her murder were acquitted because the eyewitness to her murder was considered very unreliable and her testimony was thrown out. What I do remember about that case is Kelly died of a slit throat but there was very little blood where the crime ostensibly happened. The 'unreliable' witness told the police that the men who killed Kelly got a bath towel, twisted it into a coil , wrapped it tightly around her neck, then put a knife between the coils and slit her throat. The coiled towel essentially soaked up most of her blood leaving very little blood, including arterial spray. If this UID's body was so decomposed and degraded is it possible that the towels were used to stem the flow of blood from a throat wound but extreme decomposition made it difficult to ascertain?

Another thing that confuses me about this case, is that the hair is sometimes listed as brown or possibly brown and not all descriptions mention balding. A body that is submerged would lose all its hair eventually but a corpse that is face down in water would lose hair from the scalp that was submerged giving an appearance of balding.

Finally for my own clarification, I found the maximum depth of Lake Barkley is 21 metres or about 66 feet which can fluctuate by several feet between summer and winter.

 

[MadMcGoo]

This is an intriguing case and I’m starting to think most of our questions exist because of errors in the reported information. Too much is open for interpretation and the seems more like subjective observations on the part of whomever drafted the actual reports or came up with the description of some of these things. The “Dallas Cowboys” jacket for example. Sounds more like someone saw a dark blue jacket with a large white star on it and thought “this is probably the DC logo, so it shall be a DC jacket” and the pants, “hard to make out, but this could be a 33 or a 38, so it shall be a 38”. I’m exaggerating a little and I’m sure it probably wasn’t an intentional act meant to mislead but it’s obviously caused confusion.

I’ve gone as far as asking a friend whose about the same size and weight as Mac if he owned a pair of jeans this size. He just laughed and in not so many words said “no”. LOL

 

[GJKJR]

One thing, what's with the "Motley Bay" at the end of Mac's NamUs circumstances of discovery? Was that where he was found? I tried looking it up to figure it out, and I can't really discern 100% whether a bay named Motley Bay lies somewhere within Lake Barkley. However, there is a road called "Motley Circle" near a bay in Lake Barkley, along with a creek named "Motley Creek." Though the bay is about 12 miles south of Eddyville, KY, it's barely in Lyon County, and the name would fit. I think it's well possible that he was found there, and the bay name was taken from the name of a local creek. With the little information I can find on location of discovery, I placed the pin marking his location of discovery around there, on the north side of the bay.

 

[UnderstandBlue]

One thing, what's with the "Motley Bay" at the end of Mac's NamUs circumstances of discovery? Was that where he was found? I tried looking it up to figure it out, and I can't really discern 100% whether a bay named Motley Bay lies somewhere within Lake Barkley. However, there is a road called "Motley Circle" near a bay in Lake Barkley, along with a creek named "Motley Creek." Though the bay is about 12 miles south of Eddyville, KY, it's barely in Lyon County, and the name would fit. I think it's well possible that he was found there, and the bay name was taken from the name of a local creek. With the little information I can find on location of discovery, I placed the pin marking his location of discovery around there, on the north side of the bay.
View attachment 229056View attachment 229057

Yes - I went down that rabbit hole too! The map link on NamUS is not helpful in the least.

 

[GJKJR]

Yes - I went down that rabbit hole too! The map link on NamUS is not helpful in the least.

Yeah. Most NamUs map links that don't have specific GPS coordinates tend to be quite bad. Usually they just end up pointing to the center of the city the decedent was found in or near, which is okay for a cursory look at the area, but bad if you want any semblance of accuracy as to where the decedent was actually found.

 

[UnderstandBlue]

Yeah. Most NamUs map links that don't have specific GPS coordinates tend to be quite bad. Usually they just end up pointing to the center of the city the decedent was found in or near, which is okay for a cursory look at the area, but bad if you want any semblance of accuracy as to where the decedent was actually found.

I know - it seems so outdated to be that imprecise. I just hope newer cases are more precise, I guess. I wonder if there are scene photos in this case other than what's in NamUS. The chain, the wire, etc.

 

[Trudie]

@PezCandy i will reply to you tomorrow, you have valid points. Thinking......

 

[Trudie]

I know - it seems so outdated to be that imprecise. I just hope newer cases are more precise, I guess. I wonder if there are scene photos in this case other than what's in NamUS. The chain, the wire, etc.

there must be photos

 

[MadMcGoo]

I need photos. Actual case file/crime scene photos, not “clothing reconstructions” (huh??!) The Motley Bay bit may be the one thing I have actually found and not logged anywhere because I have seen something else about it...which I will now go look for!

 

[momrids6]

People in my house have short legs and a belly. They also have huge thighs, and long torsos. Ones inseam gets shorter as ones belly gets bigger, unless you hike jeans over the belly instead of under. They are both 5’11. Their shoe size is 11. Their jean size is 38/30 but with a belt. Neither like tight pants. They can easily get into a 36, but don’t like the restriction- need that room to move all over all day. Jeans worn in 99 had no stretch and are smaller than now, due to vanity sizing. I think this guy is shorter than 6’3”

 

[MadMcGoo]

MAC the jack, gonna get his name back!!
https://unidentified.wikia.org/wiki/Lyon_County_John_Doe_(1999)
Lyon County John Doe (1999)