GUILTY KY - Trey Zwicker, 14, beaten to death, Louisville, 11 May 2011 #1

[MeeBee]

I don't think he did it. After catching up today with the trial and with the evidence, this kid will be acquitted. There is no evidence against him other than the word of the cousin, whose story is highly suspect to me.

It sounds like the story she was told to tell police when Gouker initially wanted to pin the whole thing on him. Because why, if he committed it with his father, would he then run next door to the cousin's house, implicate himself and expose the crime. Wouldn't he just expose of the weapons quietly with his father? Why did he need to be driven anywhere? It is just something to give Cassie knowledge of the case. The only way she could know anything is if she wasn't there. She initially said that JG did it. She's covering for him, but since JG recanted and took responsibility for the whole thing, she has to stick to her story.

The murder was not even committed with a baseball bat. Her story is BS.

Maybe Josh Young was there, but as of right now there is not one scratch of evidence that he was. When Trey tried to leave the house that night, he was alone, he was not with Josh.

 

[twall]

They dropped the charges on her and JY though didn't they.

In fact Ms Riddle testifying today started of as a strange coincidence because this morning I began to search out articles about this case so I could understand the backstory better. I never knew about the kidnapping in Alabama until this morning. I found an article that said that Alabama has charged JG with felony kidnapping. I was even wondering who Ms. Riddle was and then oops there she is testifying in the case today.

But as I read the many articles out there on this case I became more convinced that JG only changed his story from 'Jr did it' to 'oh wait I did it' when he knew he was most likely going to prison for life on the Alabama charges anyway. He not only kidnapped the woman making her drive over 100 miles but he also forced her to pay for their hotel room and he did this by force using a firearm. So he is in deep do and he knew it. Before it comes to trial additional charges could be added against him such as an enhancement for using a firearm in the commission of a felony and armed robbery.

So that is why he has changed his tune (story) IMOO.

I actually think now it was JY who lured Trey down to the site where he was murdered. Trey would trust a young person more his age like JY and JY took full advantage of that. I also think now (unless something comes out to change my opinion) that JY was the sole murderer of Trey. I do however believe that his father knew it was going to happen and was pleased with his son for doing it.

IMO

The Alabama charges against Gouker were dropped long before he changed his story. This article is from 2011.

Authorities in Alabama dropped kidnapping and gun charges against Gouker and he was released from jail on September 28.

http://wave.dua1.worldnow.com/story...-in-louisville-after-mistaken-alabama-release

 

[Hopeful One]

Here's a rather lengthy interview by Gouker that I had not seen before in its entirety:

http://www.courier-journal.com/Vide...ker-talks-at-length-about-killing-his-stepson

Wow. That dude is evil. I'm speechless.

 

[CarolinaMoon]

I was eagerly awaiting the Sneiderman when the big charges were dropped. HLN dropped her case like a hot potato to feature the Josh Young trial. I got up to speed on this trial very quickly, catching the opening statements on HLN and reading everything possible.

I just found this thread this morning and have just read it all. Thank you people for the links and I'll be following here as well. I'm assuming that HLN will follow this trial and dump the live coverage of the Sneiderman trial, which I also want to watch. So, I'll probably watch Sneiderman at Wild and record HLN. That way, I can fast forward and keep up in the evenings. Whew!

So far, I'm :fence: about Josh Young. I worked with all sorts of kids as a high school teacher for 31 years. My friend and I supervised the yearbook and we were admonished by the administration for having "bad kids" on the staff. My friend explained it well. There are good kids and bad kids. There are also "bad" good kids and "good" bad kids. Many of the "good" bad kids were the ones who worked the hardest and produced an award winning yearbook. In spite of their reputations, they were good kids.

In general, a "bad" good kid was one who put on a façade of cooperation and pleasantness in front of family and faculty. Yet, their actions are often despicable. A good example is a young man in my class who was the "star" and volunteered to help a struggling classmate. It was a tough class with a lot of noise. I didn't learn until the following school year that this "good kid" would tell her she was stupid and call her all sorts of names whenever the volume in the class went up. She had been assigned to my class for the following year in the next level of the class. She and her mother had a conference with me. The mother didn't want her in my class because she assumed I had known about the verbal abused heaped on her daughter. Once I explained the situation, I assured her that nothing like that would ever happen in my earshot. The girl promised to tell me if it happened again. She got a solid B that year and Mom thanked me. The poor girl was afraid to tell me what had been going on!

Sorry for the long explanation, but I just don't know much about what Josh Young is like. Is he a bad kid or a "good" bad kid who worshiped his father from afar for most of his life. I need to know if, in the 2 months he was with his father, he tried to be like him, down to laughing at the video he was making of his father. A kid will go a long way to gain the approval of his father. He might even be willing to take the rap for him out of love/fear/intimidation. Big Josh is good at intimidation.

I do believe that witness Jahaira Riddle Friend was a willing participant in the long trip to swim in a motel pool! I'd like to know if she even brought a bathing suit with her. It's funny how she can only manage to remember information damaging to the defense. All the rest is a blur.

Heck, the judge didn't even admonish the gallery until after her testimony was over! I don't think he was buying her testimony, either!

 

[New1]

If it's true about the video he filmed of his dad beating a dog to death and laughing about it, there is something dreadfully wrong with this kid. I can't tell yet what's true and what isn't. Of what I have seen so far, all these people are weirdos except Trey's dad and step mother.

 

[Irisha]

I just seeingthis thread. I thpught we couldn't have 1 because he's a minor.

He reminds me of Cody Posey, google that trial, I watched it. A monster for a father, not every child kills, push their limits. they might, can and will.



If it were me I would sue the freaking JUDGE, you never give a criminal a child. This Judge needs to be villified. And sued. How dare you give this young boy back to a criminal.Don't let his Dad win. Peace
He kinda reminds me of Cody Posey (google him) I watched his trial. I'm sure he is doing fine.

 

[CarolinaMoon]

If it's true about the video he filmed of his dad beating a dog to death and laughing about it, there is something dreadfully wrong with this kid. I can't tell yet what's true and what isn't. Of what I have seen so far, all these people are weirdos except Trey's dad and step mother.

IIRC, he wasn't beating a dog to death, but it was of dear old dad doing something to a dog. He did kill Amanda's daughter's Chihuahua puppy and a cat (by throwing it off of a roof). Still, there is something seriously wrong with everyone involved to one point or another. The area of town where they all live/lived should be renamed Dysfunction Junction.

 

[Myvice]

I'm still on the fence and waiting for more info.

JG admits they tried to muddy the water from the get go and I guess it's worked. It's hard for me to believe JG did it because he does have an alibi with the tape. I also have a hard time thinking Trey would have gone to the creek with JG. Trey knew he was bad news and that Trey's Dad didn't want him around JG.

It will be interesting to see what witnesses come out. I'm not sure I consider JRF a good witness after learning the backstory, but the jury won't know that. It's strange that Angelic Burkhard and Erin were allowed to leave yet JRF was not. Maybe JRF just had no place to go? I actually don't find it that strange that she remembers the part of the talk about the murder yet not much detail about the rest, if that's true. That would be etched in my mind too. But why did JG allow any of them to live after they had this knowledge?

I'm assuming a psychological profile will come out on JY because I think I read they did one after he was arrested in the kidnapping charge. It sounds like he has done well since being away from JG. I sure wish he had gone to someone in the system and let them know what was going on with his Dad before it got this far. I wish he had talked to the foster parents he had for 4 months and said his Dad had pot and was killing animals and intimidating people. It bothers me that he still idolized his Dad after these things happened and after only being around his Dad for a few months. It's not like his Dad raised him.

I'm so torn. And waiting for any actual evidence. I feel so bad for JY but yet I'm disturbed by his actions too. And I hope some actual TRUTH comes out.

 

[New1]

I'm usually a rational thinker, but this one is so hard because none of it makes any sense. Why would Trey even go down there to that drainage ditch alone after 10 o'clock at night on a school night? Or DID he go alone? Why was he trying to sneak out of the house (per his mom's testimony) at that time of night? Trey's dad said the only thing he knew for sure was that both boys sneaked out of the house that night. Maybe to smoke weed? Trey's mom testified that Gouker was snoring in the bed beside her between 1 and 1:30 a.m. Did he wake up and take trey down there after AM fell asleep? Doesn't seem likely. Did Josh young spend the night at AM's house that night, or did he sneak out of Cassie's house which was two houses down, and lure Trey down there to smoke weed while Gouker and Trey's mom were busy making the sex video? That doesn't seem likely either, since it would have been way past 10 p.m. on a school night. But something.....something caused him to go to the drainage ditch. Even though it was said that Trey was afraid of the dark, it is possible if the urge to smoke weed was strong enough, that he went alone.

It appears that whoever killed him came up from behind and hit him in the back of the head. If Gouker confronted him down there about stealing his marijuana, do you confront somebody from the back? Not likely. Would Gouker, a grown man, have needed to sneak up from behind and hit Trey in the back of the head or even carry a weapon down there to confront a 14 year old? But another teenager might. Josh Young was only one year older than Trey, and appears in the pictures to be smaller than Trey. I'm leaning toward believing that Josh Young did kill Trey for some unknown reason, and when Josh Gouker learned that his son would be tried as an adult, he confessed.

I just haven't been able to figure this one out yet. None of it makes any sense, but the Prosecutors MUST think they have something that hasn't been presented yet that ties Josh Young to the murder as an accomplice or they wouldn't be bringing the charges. Without any evidence at all, they never could have got an arrest warrant. So, let's just see what turns up.

 

[HauntsForHope]

WHAS11 found multiple instances in Emergency Protection Orders issued against Gouker, involving five different women in which the alleged victims referred to Gouker's gang activity.

He claimed repeatedly to be a leader in the Bloods street gang.


"I've known Josh 15 years or longer. He's admitted to me he's murdered before. That's what the tear drop underneath his eyelid is for," said another neighbor.

WHAS11 also discovered numerous references to gang activity on his son's Facebook page as well.

The boy quotes lyrics of songs describing "throwin' blood in the air and leaving blood on the ground" and has a rap video about the Bloods gang posted on his Facebook wall. "


http://www.whas11.com/news/New-details-emerge-in-Joshua-Gouker-case-124106854.html

 

[HauntsForHope]

Good local coverage..

http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/stepfather-of-slain-teen-charged-in-connection-with-killing/1d0brru8q?cpkey=2c01a2f7-1746-4e68-bf66-678c37233814%257c%257c%257c%257c

 

[HauntsForHope]

After watching his interviews, I think Goukers plan is to plead guilty, watch his son get off for lack of evidence, then have his son confess to get him out. The son can't be re-tried, double jeopardy. Since the murder charge was dropped does double jeopardy apply? Maybe not.

http://www.courier-journal.com/VideoNetwork/1809220914001/Joshua-Gouker-talks-at-length-about-killing-his-stepson

 

[AngelWings444]

After watching his interviews, I think Goukers plan is to plead guilty, watch his son get off for lack of evidence, then have his son confess to get him out. The son can't be re-tried, double jeopardy.

http://www.courier-journal.com/VideoNetwork/1809220914001/Joshua-Gouker-talks-at-length-about-killing-his-stepson

This is exactly what I believe. JY did the murder but Dad was fully aware or even there. But, JY isn't charged with murder so would double jeopardy apply? Minor4th? The cast of characters are unreal in this case. Like other cases, you can't pick and choose your witnesses. I am truly astounded that people live like this and their stories are unreal, but real. Kind of nuts. Poor Trey. :cry:

 

[HauntsForHope]

Gouker wanted revenge and used his son to get it. A respected member of the Bloods gang, JY looked up to his father. He saw the power and control his father had over everyone. Amanda said Josh Young was on the couch talking to a girl on the phone, when Trey went for his shower. He may have lured Trey out with promise of meeting a girl. They walked to 'the spot' together where JY attacked TZ, in a very efficient manner. The first shot to the face took him down and his head was beaten into the ground. JY ran back home and woke CG to get rid of the bloody bat. That was at 2:30am. Meanwhile Gouker was busy making himself an alibi with Amanda until 1:30am. That leaves enough time for Gouker to kill Trey, but I think JY did it himself. I am curious about the cell phone records, and who contacted who during the night. Also an exact time of death would be helpful. Where were they between 10pm and 2:30am, and what were they doing? JY says he was on the couch at Cassies but no one can verify that. What time did Trey finally sneak out, was it after 1:30 when his mother went to sleep?

 

[Irisha]

She was initially treated as an additional kidnapper but she claimed she was held against her will.

She went with them willingly and took drugs with them and stayed in numerous hotels with them.

My opinion is she went along for the drugs and wasn't really trying to "escape"

A Jodi fog? with drugs and booze and denial? When I watched her on the stand all I heard was I don't remember. Why would anyone take pills from a idiot?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I just seeingthis thread. I thpught we couldn't have 1 because he's a minor.

He reminds me of Cody Posey, google that trial, I watched it. A monster for a father, not every child kills, push their limits. they might, can and will.



If it were me I would sue the freaking JUDGE, you never give a criminal a child. This Judge needs to be villified. And sued. How dare you give this young boy back to a criminal.Don't let his Dad win. Peace
He kinda reminds me of Cody Posey (google him) I watched his trial. I'm sure he is doing fine.

We have had threads here before on minors who were on trial for murder or multiple murders. Some even much younger than Josh Young.

But Trey was not abusing anyone. He was an innocent 14 year old with a heart of gold by all accounts from those who knew him. Josh Young did not murder his father. He murdered someone who never hurt anyone.

I think he murdered Trey all by himself to impress his dad and I do think he dad was very impressed and proud of him that he had become so much like him.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Whoa Ocean, back up a sec. I wasn't pointing fingers at anyone on this site. One of the reasons I love reading WS is that everyone has opinions...and the more I read, the more I learn. But I stand by my statement, that all the children in this situation have been completely let down by the adults in their lives that should have been there to protect them. As for JY, I have no idea if he had anything to do with the murder of Trey. That is why I am watching the trial and seeing where the evidence goes. So far...meh...not seeing much. JMHO. :seeya:

I feel I do owe you an apology bamacurious. I admit I do get very passionate at times when I feel, rightly or wrongly, that sympathy is being given to the defendant instead of all the sympathy being given to the innocent victim.

I also know I have very little or no sympathy for those who take the life of others. I don't buy into excuses either. Whether someone lived an abusive or neglectful childhood does not define who they are. They still have cognitive choices. There is nothing wrong with Josh Young's intelligence. He knew right from wrong and that is why we have all the evasive inconsistent stories he told LE from day one.

I lived most of my childhood as an abused child from a very dysfunctional family but I refused to become like them and Josh Young had that same choice in his life. He made his choice. He wanted to be like his father instead of being determined to be the total opposite.

But sometimes I can come across a little too strong and for that I am truly sorry. I hope you accept my apology. It just stirs up many angry emotions. I just think about all the millions of children who were/are abused living under the worst conditions imaginable while growing up. Yet day in and day out the majority of them go on to be good, decent, caring and kind members of society. The ones who make no excuses for the lives they have lived when they were a child but instead are determined to make their life meaningful and productive.:seeya:

Peace

 

[minor4th]

This is exactly what I believe. JY did the murder but Dad was fully aware or even there. But, JY isn't charged with murder so would double jeopardy apply? Minor4th? The cast of characters are unreal in this case. Like other cases, you can't pick and choose your witnesses. I am truly astounded that people live like this and their stories are unreal, but real. Kind of nuts. Poor Trey. :cry:

Neither Josh will be able to be retried once there is a verdict. Gouker won't be set free by Young's subsequent confession

 

[oceanblueeyes]

From what I read, all of the kidnapping charges against all of them were dropped because it turns out the victim (Erin) was actually an acquaintance of Gouker's and had a prior relationship with him.

I think Jpsh Young killed Trey - but I think there may have been a bigger plan for Goiker to kill Amanda and Terry as well.

Thank you for telling me they had dropped the charges.

Can you tell me when this correlates in time to JG changing his story from JY did it to he did it?

What I mean is....... had the kidnapping charges against JG already been dropped when his story changed?

thanks.

 

[Sunshine95]

Haven't decided if he did it or not, but I have worked with lots of delinquent youth and wanted to say...

Children have a critical period in the first 2 years or so of their lives when they learn to bond and emotionally connect with themselves and others. I have worked with too many kids who were neglected during this time, and/ or abused, and they didn't develop the part of their brains that allow them to experience empathy. Since his parents were drug addicts, and at least dad is abusive, it is possible that he also missed this development. A person without a developed ability to empathize= antisocial personalities aka sociopath.

One of our primary needs as humans is to belong. Kids with neglectful, abusive primary caregivers, those who are abandoned or threatened with abandonment, etc... can go to great lengths to feel wanted, like they matter and belong to someone. Kids who shift around in the foster care system, kids with a borderline PD parent, rigid, controlling, addicted parent, etc can be especially vulnerable to not getting this need met. We go to any length we have to in order to get our basic needs met. I have witnessed kids go to unreal lengths chasing after parents who use and abuse them, to get this need met. It seems JY was especially vulnerable, according to his history, and may have been willing to do anything at all for his dad to accept and "love" him. He may also be confused about right and wrong- if you hear society say one thing, and the person you want to love you more than anything says another (and the subculture you are surrounded with), it can be very confusing. It is sad and he is a victim, even if he is also a cold blooded killer.

While I have empathy and understanding for kids who do terrible things in response to terrible upbringing, I know that many of them will be dangerous forever and need to be locked up to keep others safe.
Also, many kids who do terrible crimes have been dealing with PTSD for a long time and, had they gotten therapy, the criminal activity might could have been avoided.

It seems JG is a sociopath on many levels, the classic abuse of people and animals is all too familiar. I am just hoping JY was able to develop the ability to feel empathy, for everyone's sake including his. If not, I hope he stays locked up for life. If he can truly feel empathy, and he is guilty, then I hope he gets punished, therapy, and can one day be ok. I have worked with youth murderers, rapists, gang members, etc. and have seen that children who are good deep down and can have empathy can change.

Just my jumbled thoughts and feelings :blushing:

Editing- NOT trying to say that everyone who is neglected and abused when babies are going to be sociopaths! Very often, fortunately, they have someone (person or animal) that gives them enough of what they need. There are plenty of people who come out ok. Just trying to explain my experience of how those who do end of sociopaths get that way.