GUILTY KY - Trey Zwicker, 14, beaten to death, Louisville, 11 May 2011 #1

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I wish HLN would make a distinction between Joshua (the father) and Josh (the son) it gets really confusing sometimes.

YES! They need to say the whole name or Josh y and Josh G something.. Or just mr Gouker and then Josh young..

 

[oceanblueeyes]

To have him dress for court? I don't think that is deception but respect for the court. How would you have him dress?

This never matters to me. I don't see how this has to do with the case at all. What matters is the evidence they have and do they have anything against this kid.

Appropriately for a guy his age. Nice dress shirt......maybe a tie or not. I have seen some teen defendants his age in suits. Doesn't even have to wear a suit though but wearing a sweater vest everyday when it is hot as hades outside is ridiculous.

Is he coloring too as the testimony goes on? lol

IMO

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Appropriately for a guy his age. Nice dress shirt......maybe a tie or not. I have seen some teen defendants his age in suits. Doesn't even have to wear a suit though but wearing a sweater vest everyday when it is hot as hades outside is ridiculous.

Is he coloring too as the testimony goes on? lol

IMO

I'm sorry but to me, this is a silly thing to consider or focus on. Really, He looks like a teen going to court. It means nothing to the actual case.

The evidence is what matters.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

What does it have to do with the murder?

Because its all about perception and jurors are human. They watch and assess everything in the courtroom including the defendant and what they wear.

That is the very reason why the defense attorneys dress their clients up like Mr. Rogers or like some straight laced woman when they aren't either one.

IMO

 

[Coldpizza]

So far, from what I know about this case, I don't believe he did it. At the very least, he was ordered to do it by the father. But that makes him a victim too.

I was reading a very interesting article just now and Josh's alleged Aunt posted comment in the comment section:

Do you have a link to the article please?

:tyou:

Nevermind you posted it later!

http://www.courier-journal.com/arti...oubled-family-came-pouring-out?nclick_check=1

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Because its all about perception and jurors are human. They watch and assess everything in the courtroom including the defendant and what they wear.

That is the very reason why the defense attorneys dress their clients up like Mr. Rogers or like some straight laced woman when they aren't either one.

IMO

It does not help them if they are guilty. Seacat dressed nice, Peterson dressed nice, Guilty is guilty. I certainly would give no credence to what someone wore in court.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I'm sorry but to me, this is a silly thing to consider or focus on. Really, He looks like a teen going to court. It means nothing to the actual case.

The evidence is what matters.

I understand your viewpoint and respect it.

However; jurors do size up the defendant and what they wear and act throughout the trial. It may be silly but they do and most of the time the dress attire is an illusion meant to create something that isn't. That's my opinion based on being a juror 5 times over my lifetime.

You are right, in the end it will be the evidence that matters. The jury will also be able to view him in a much different light during his police interviews and may feel that the defense has tried to deceive them into believing he is some kind of weak nerdy guy.

If jurors did not weigh the appearance of the defendant then defense attorneys wouldn't go through so much trouble of trying to show their client in a different light from the night they were arrested or when the offense happened. We have even seen in some trials gang members who come in looking like some big executive. lol

They will however be able to view him in his interview and judge his credibility and see if there are inconsistencies in his story or multiple stories.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

It does not help them if they are guilty. Seacat dressed nice, Peterson dressed nice, Guilty is guilty. I certainly would give no credence to what someone wore in court.

I sure wish guilty meant guilty but it doesn't work that way every time. Guilty people are found NG unfortunately and it can be because the jurors just couldn't fathom the defendant they saw during trial being capable of doing what they were charged with. Of course they didn't see the real defendant but only an illusion the defense attorney created for the jury to see.

Women tend to appear dowdy, downtrodden,plain, and meek in a courtroom if they find themselves in the criminal justice system. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

IMO

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I sure wish guilty meant guilty but it doesn't work that way every time. Guilty people are found NG unfortunately and it can be because the jurors just couldn't fathom the defendant they saw during trial being capable of doing what they were charged with. Of course they didn't see the real defendant but only an illusion the defense attorney created for the jury to see.

Women tend to appear dowdy, downtrodden,plain, and meek in a courtroom if they find themselves in the criminal justice system. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

IMO

I don't think so. As a rule I think Juries want evidence. I have not seen a trial where there was good evidence on a defendant and they the jury later said they found him NG because he just looked so nice in court.

JMO.. But I just think this really is the least helpful thing they can do to help themselves.

 

[bettybaby00]

I sure wish guilty meant guilty but it doesn't work that way every time. Guilty people are found NG unfortunately and it can be because the jurors just couldn't fathom the defendant they saw during trial being capable of doing what they were charged with. Of course they didn't see the real defendant but only an illusion the defense attorney created for the jury to see.

Women tend to appear dowdy, downtrodden,plain, and meek in a courtroom if they find themselves in the criminal justice system. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

IMO

IA. I would have like to have seen the difference in opinion with the jury foreman in the Arias case. During the penalty phase he couldn't reconcile the "girl" in the courtroom with the viciousness of her crime, based in part on the way she looked. would he have seen her as such a victim--he bought into the she was emotionally abused rhetoric-- if she had sat at the defendants table with her flirty smiles, bleach blonde hair, and skin tight clothes that showed off surgically enhanced breasts? I doubt it. MOO

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

IA. I would have like to have seen the difference in opinion with the jury foreman in the Arias case. Based in part how she looked, he couldn't reconcile the "girl" in the courtroom with the viciousness of her crime. Would he have seen her as such a victim--he bought into the she was emotionally abused rhetoric-- if she had sat at the defendants table with her flirty smiles, bleach blonde hair, and skin tight clothes that showed off surgically enhanced breasts? I doubt it. MOO

I don't believe that at all. He said he thought she was abused. My guess is that is what swayed his vote in the end. Everyone comes from a different POV, I don't believe how she dressed helped her at all. Her attitude and demeanor did her in.. Oh and her lies.. And well she admitted to murdering him..

She was still found guilty. That someone could not give her the death penalty, after finding her guilty and with aggravating circumstances, means how dressed meant nothing. OMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

IA. I would have like to have seen the difference in opinion with the jury foreman in the Arias case. During the penalty phase he couldn't reconcile the "girl" in the courtroom with the viciousness of her crime, based in part on the way she looked. would he have seen her as such a victim--he bought into the she was emotionally abused rhetoric-- if she had sat at the defendants table with her flirty smiles, bleach blonde hair, and skin tight clothes that showed off surgically enhanced breasts? I doubt it. MOO

Of course......he looked at her and bought the lies......hook..line and sinker. It is just human nature for jurors to size up defendants in court. If Arias had been a man the foreman would have had no problem believing he was capable of a heinous brutal murder like Arias did, imo. It worked when she needed it most. Saving her from the death penalty although I hope that changes the second time around.

And she never admitted to murdering him. She claimed all along it was self defense and stuck with that bs. But her looks in court saved her from death row even though they had already found her guilty of M1 and also agreed it was 'extremely cruel."

I think that is why the basketball player (I cant think of his name at the moment lol) Williams? that shot and killed the limo driver was judged differently by his jury the first go around. He just didn't look like the type that would do something like that even though he did.

So the jury may very well believe the young nerdy boy in front of them is not capable of doing such acts or they may think he looks very different from when he did his interviews.

Of course most jurors aren't like the Arias foreman anyway who came out and made 'how she looked' an issue.

IMO

 

[lonetraveler]

I'm only to 6:30 in this video, but I'm seeing some signs that are just no good for JY. Hmmmm.

Complete Interview: Police Talk To Josh Young - YouTube

(I have to use the VLC media player to get the volume high enough to hear anything!).

At 6:30, JY does a (possibly) sly con artist/psychopath move with the 'You can understand that' said to the interviewing detective. His demeanor is not the least bit upset or frazzled, also. Hmmmm. And it's clear he's extremely smart.

Very interesting. I'll watch more now but I wanted to give that link (and share my thoughts while I'm posting)...

Oh, the detective is clarifying what's up with him changing the story of that night, so it's a very important interview.

Dang, can't get this to play.

Never mind I've got it.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Of course......he looked at her and bought the lies......hook..line and sinker. It is just human nature for jurors to size up defendants in court. If Arias had been a man the foreman would have had no problem believing he was capable of a heinous brutal murder like Arias did, imo. It worked when she needed it most. Saving her from the death penalty although I hope that changes the second time around.

And she never admitted to murdering him. She claimed all along it was self defense and stuck with that bs. But her looks in court saved her from death row even though they had already found her guilty of M1 and also agreed it was 'extremely cruel."

I think that is why the basketball player (I cant think of his name at the moment lol) Williams? that shot and killed the limo driver was judged differently by his jury the first go around. He just didn't look like the type that would do something like that even though he did.

So the jury may very well believe the young nerdy boy in front of them is not capable of doing such acts or they may think he looks very different from when he did his interviews.

Of course most jurors aren't like the Arias foreman anyway who came out and made 'how she looked' an issue.

IMO

BBM, Sorry, that is not true. If he did buy it he would have voted not guilty. He voted guilty. Then he voted guilty of aggravation. He did not buy anything hook line and sinker.. When it came to the death penalty he could not vote for it.. I understand that. I don't agree but I can understand not voting guilty if you have pause.

 

[lonetraveler]

Of course......he looked at her and bought the lies......hook..line and sinker. It is just human nature for jurors to size up defendants in court. If Arias had been a man the foreman would have had no problem believing he was capable of a heinous brutal murder like Arias did, imo. It worked when she needed it most. Saving her from the death penalty although I hope that changes the second time around.

And she never admitted to murdering him. She claimed all along it was self defense and stuck with that bs. But her looks in court saved her from death row even though they had already found her guilty of M1 and also agreed it was 'extremely cruel."

I think that is why the basketball player (I cant think of his name at the moment lol) Williams? that shot and killed the limo driver was judged differently by his jury the first go around. He just didn't look like the type that would do something like that even though he did.

So the jury may very well believe the young nerdy boy in front of them is not capable of doing such acts or they may think he looks very different from when he did his interviews.

Of course most jurors aren't like the Arias foreman anyway who came out and made 'how she looked' an issue.

IMO

LOL, JMO but I do believe that Arias' sex talk influenced the foreman and the other men who could not invoke the death penalty. It was most likely too difficult to sentence a young woman to death when she caused you to have sex fantasies running through your head.

 

[lonetraveler]

Appropriately for a guy his age. Nice dress shirt......maybe a tie or not. I have seen some teen defendants his age in suits. Doesn't even have to wear a suit though but wearing a sweater vest everyday when it is hot as hades outside is ridiculous.

Is he coloring too as the testimony goes on? lol

IMO

The very first thing I noticed about the defendant in court was that his clothes are at least two sizes too large for him. Defense attorneys like to make their clients look small and fragile. A lot of times it works or they wouldn't do it. I've seen female defendants who've dressed very plain and conservative and juveniles who dress like he is dressed for this trial. Defense wants the jury to see a little boy who is incapable of committing such a horrible crime.

 

[lonetraveler]

Complete Interview: Police Talk To Josh Young - YouTube

Been watching this video. First, this kid is very intelligent. Second, he totally worships his father and would do absolutely anything for him (my opinion). Third, I'm not convinced that he would do this horrible deed if his father told him to do it. Fourth, if his father convinced him that if he was charged he, as a minor would be out in four years but he, the father would be in prison for life, that this kid would go along with it.

 

[bettybaby00]

I definitely believe defense attorneys use anything and everything to garner sympathy with a jury, and humanize their client...including trying to portray a certain look thru clothing, hair, adding eye glasses, and God in the Arias case she would lower her freaking chair in order to seem more frail.

Doesn't mean every juror will buy it, but I'm sure many do.

 

[Jewels53]

I watched the video and Josh Young did give conflicting answers. I have seen only 1 day of testimony and all of the post.

So right now I think I will sit on the fence until more convicting evidence comes in. I will say I think they could dress him his age, I believe sweater vest are out. Maybe just a plain shirt and tie.

 

[lonetraveler]

I definitely believe defense attorneys use anything and everything to garner sympathy with a jury, and I humanize their client...including trying to portray a certain look thru clothing, hair, adding eye glasses, and God in the Arias case she would lower her freaking chair in order to seem more frail.

Doesn't mean every juror will buy iy, but I'm sure many due.

:floorlaugh: I know! For awhile I thought we would get to see Arias' knees up under her chin, her chair was so low. There was definitely a world's difference between the blond vixen and the dark-haired librarian.