Kyron Horman General Discussion thread 2023 - 2026

[Truth Prevails]

By August 3, 2010, the media reported law enforcement had received approximately 3,500 tips from individuals in the first two months of the investigation. These tips may have contained information that Kyron was seen in many makes, models, and colors of vehicles. At various times. In various locations. With Terri and without Terri. Once in the possession of law enforcement, these tips are not shared with the family. Law enforcement only shares vetted information they believe is pertinent to the victim’s case. The victim's family has to sue to receive disclosure of the tips—Jennifer Kesse’s family did but settled out of court. I believe Tim Miller sued for his daughter’s case file and also Maura Murary’s family sued. Each family had varying degrees of success, if any. It is a tough, expensive battle.

Neither law enforcement nor Kaine would have seen “information” in Houze’s possession. Unfortunately, she hasn’t been charged to date. Discovery in Kyron’s case hasn’t changed hands. Considering the amount of Houze's retainer, I would not expect he would reveal his hand early. He did a little “grandstanding” in divorce court trying to win her visitation rights with her daughter but he was not successful.

Kaine may have been approached directly by people wanting to help who told him they believed they saw Kyron getting into a vehicle in the parking lot. All he could do was take their information and pass it on to law enforcement. This would be “firsthand” information to Kaine and he would have no idea if it was true. Kaine may also have been referring to information he received early on from Terri as “firsthand” information. Once she retained Houze on or about July 26, 2010, Houze would have advised her not to speak to Kaine, law enforcement, the media, or anyone else. Until the divorce was finalized, we heard a fair amount from Kaine. I didn’t get the impression he believed what “Kyron’s stepmother” had been telling him.

Alternatively, people may have approached Kaine with information they had received from someone else. This would be second-hand information. Law enforcement would handle any investigation into the information. Kaine would not be a party to the verification or outcome.

The article below contains an example of a tip that was well intended. Mr. McCain, who received the tip directly, might say he had firsthand knowledge of the tip.

Snipped Quote: [August 3rd, 2010] Investigators in the case of missing 7-year-old Kyron Horman say they’ve sorted through more than 3,500 tips in the nearly two-month investigation.
…This morning around 9:00 am I received a telephone call from [MD], a [snipped by me] farmer [snipped by me]. … When I took his call he expressed relief in “finally talking to a human” after leaving unanswered calls to the MCSO tip line. I told him I no longer worked at MCSO and I am not part of the investigation at all. He understood that but asked me to pass this info along to the authorities.
…I told him I would pass his story on to someone I knew “high up” in the investigation. But I also told him that one reason why he might not have received a call back is that investigators knew where Terri and the pickup were around 12 noon on Wednesday, June 9.
UPDATE: Lt. Mary Lindstrand, spokeswoman for the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office, says a detective from an outside agency followed up on the tip “some time ago” and determined it wasn’t relevant to the investigation.
Kyron Horman Update: One Tipster's Startling Suspicions, and Frustration (Updated with Comment from MCSO) | Willamette Week | Thursday, August 5th, 2010

Also, there is the “mystery man” aka “flannel shirt guy” spotted in the last image of Kyron in front of his science fair project on the day he disappeared. This man was ruled out by law enforcement very early on in the investigation but his identity was pursued by bloggers for years.

Snipped Quote: [Around 25th of June, 2010] The Multnomah County Sheriff’s office said it knows who the mysterious man is in the background of the picture of Kyron Horman standing in front of his Tree Frog display.
He has been interviewed but is not a person of interest in the case.
His name will not be released and the Sheriff’s office will not say if he is a parent or teacher.
The picture and that man in the back of room became a hot topic of conversation after Portland Mayor Sam Adams sent out this alert to the public asking for help in identifying the man:
Do you recognize the man in this photo (2nd photo down in the story)?
Kyron's mom: 'He doesn't like to wander off'

 

[Truth Prevails]

Kaine, on the other hand, said that same claim was gossip on the same level as other gossip.

Please provide a link for Kaine stating the above. Thanks.

 

[Vegan1234]

Second hand information could be gossip, social media, made-up information, read, overheard, heard from a 3rd or 4th or 5th party, not new, passed down through multiple people, speculation, assumption, etc. "My grandma's cousin's neighbor's barber's doctor's friend said.."

How second hand information is defined as statements from sworn witnesses is puzzling to me.

But ask Terri Horman Vasquez, she has the answer to these questions. She has first hand information about what happened to Kyron, because she was there.

The second hand information is coming from LE. Kaine did not partake in interviewing witnesses. If it wasn’t a possibility there would be no reason at all for him to even mention it at all on Nancy Grace.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

Please provide a link for Kaine stating the above. Thanks.

Sure, it's Nancy Grace's recent show. Here is the pertinent part, you can go back a little to hear the specific mention of Desiree's claim, which Nancy then asks Kaine about.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Snipped quote: [February 10, 2011] Kaine held a press conference late Monday morning. He said he could not comment specifically on anything Desiree said during the Today Show, because he did not watch the interview. But he did confirm that he got the same information about Terri's emails from police on Friday as Desiree.
Desiree: Terri hated Kyron, blamed him for failing marriage

[Pg 395] Kaine defended himself. “I haven’t seen any emails, so hearing that—that’s a little bit of a shock to me,” Kaine said. Desiree didn’t press the point—Kaine had seen the emails, and had even helped investigators gather them. It was Kaine who had shown them to Desiree.

“Boy Missing—The Search For Kyron Horman” by Rebecca Morris​

 

[FergusMcDuck]

Snipped quote: [February 10, 2011] Kaine held a press conference late Monday morning. He said he could not comment specifically on anything Desiree said during the Today Show, because he did not watch the interview. But he did confirm that he got the same information about Terri's emails from police on Friday as Desiree.
Desiree: Terri hated Kyron, blamed him for failing marriage

[Pg 395] Kaine defended himself. “I haven’t seen any emails, so hearing that—that’s a little bit of a shock to me,” Kaine said. Desiree didn’t press the point—Kaine had seen the emails, and had even helped investigators gather them. It was Kaine who had shown them to Desiree.

“Boy Missing—The Search For Kyron Horman” by Rebecca Morris​

Yes, that is another case of disagreement between Kaine and Desiree - in this case it's on the content if the emails. Desiree says she was shown emails by the police and they were hateful. Kaine says he was also shown emails but not emails that were hateful. Since both agree they were shown the same emails at the same time, the disagreement is over the content or perhaps rather the interpretation of the content.

 

[Vegan1234]

Snipped quote: [February 10, 2011] Kaine held a press conference late Monday morning. He said he could not comment specifically on anything Desiree said during the Today Show, because he did not watch the interview. But he did confirm that he got the same information about Terri's emails from police on Friday as Desiree.
Desiree: Terri hated Kyron, blamed him for failing marriage

[Pg 395] Kaine defended himself. “I haven’t seen any emails, so hearing that—that’s a little bit of a shock to me,” Kaine said. Desiree didn’t press the point—Kaine had seen the emails, and had even helped investigators gather them. It was Kaine who had shown them to Desiree.

“Boy Missing—The Search For Kyron Horman” by Rebecca Morris​

1. Lots of things have changed since 2011
2. The emails Kaine initially didn’t want to show Desiree were emails between Terri and Lisa (Quinn’s) stepmom who were both talking not very nice about Desiree. Kaine initially didn’t want to show them to her as this was already an awful situation and he did want her to be upset by what they were saying. IMO that is why there are not any “hate” emails or emails that Terri wanted to hurt Kyron. The 2 stepmoms were just complaining. Any logical person would say if those emails were about wanting to actually hurt Kyron in the (per Desiree) worst possible way. We would not be here today.

 

[Knox]

1. Lots of things have changed since 2011
2. The emails Kaine initially didn’t want to show Desiree were emails between Terri and Lisa (Quinn’s) stepmom who were both talking not very nice about Desiree. Kaine initially didn’t want to show them to her as this was already an awful situation and he did want her to be upset by what they were saying. IMO that is why there are not any “hate” emails or emails that Terri wanted to hurt Kyron. The 2 stepmoms were just complaining. Any logical person would say if those emails were about wanting to actually hurt Kyron in the (per Desiree) worst possible way. We would not be here today.

Is there a MSM link to what you state? Curious how you know the content of the emails, TIA.

 

[Truth Prevails]

The following are statements made by law enforcement officials, a judge, and an attorney. These statements would not have been made were there no supporting evidence behind them. Desiree has chosen to share some of that evidence with us, while Kaine has not. There is much more than the meager links I have provided below.

Snipped quote: [Jun. 13, 2010] The search for Kyron Horman is now a criminal investigation with a $25,000 reward for any tips leading to the missing second-grader's recovery.
Sheriff Dan Staton announced the reward and the change in the status of the case this afternoon.
Multnomah County sheriff's officials described the switch as a natural progression now that they have scoured the immediate area and checked out tips.
Kyron Horman Day 10: Case is now a criminal investigation

Snipped quote: [June 15, 2010] "It's not a search-and-rescue operation anymore," Gates said in a press conference.
He added that parents in the area need not take extra precautions with their children. Authorities have said since the earliest days of the investigation that they believe Kyron's disappearance was an isolated case.
"There is no reason to believe that the kids are in any danger here," Gates said.
https://web.archive.org/web/20100622031111/https://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20007724-504083.html/

Snipped quote: [Jun 18, 2010] There was one new piece of information: “Terri is the last-known person to have seen him before he disappeared,” Multnomah County Sheriff’s Capt. Jason Gates said, contrary to previous reports of someone else who might have seen the boy afterward. …This week, investigators sent a questionnaire to Skyline parents and students asking about their memories of Kyron’s whereabouts on the day he vanished, including any sighting of his stepmom’s pickup truck. That question reads: "Did your child see a white Ford F250 truck at or near the school on 6/4/10?"
https://web.archive.org/web/20100622041532/https://www.portlandtribune.com/news/story.php?story_id=127687387448812800

Flier

Snipped quote: [August 24th 2010] Terri's divorce attorney, Peter Bunch, claims the divorce can't go on right now because she's a "de facto suspect" in the disappearance of her stepson, Kyron.
Terri Horman makes Portland court appearance

Snipped quote: [October 30, 2013] Judge Henry Kantor referred to Kyron's stepmother Terri Horman as a prime suspect in the investigation, although Terri Horman has never been formally named a suspect in any criminal case.
Civil judge calls Terri Horman 'prime suspect'

 

[Vegan1234]

Is there a MSM link to what you state? Curious how you know the content of the emails, TIA.

I am looking for it. It’s a video clip where he says it and I believe he is with Desiree. Some of these videos are archived and not available.

 

[ReadySet]

The second hand information is coming from LE. Kaine did not partake in interviewing witnesses. If it wasn’t a possibility there would be no reason at all for him to even mention it at all on Nancy Grace.

Prior post said second hand information, nothing about information coming from LE.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Sure, it's Nancy Grace's recent show. Here is the pertinent part, you can go back a little to hear the specific mention of Desiree's claim, which Nancy then asks Kaine about.

Thank you for the link. I wanted to be sure we were discussing the same interview. Kaine is a victim who appears to be waiting for Terri to tell him she never left his 7-year-old son in the hall by the office like she said she did (in at least one of her versions). It’s so sad. It's been 14 years. I wonder how long he will wait until he accepts what law enforcement has told him.

I believe he has received the same information as Desiree.

Since Kaine wasn’t going to give it up, Ms. Grace got the reporter to explain about the evidence that has emerged of witnesses who saw the stepmother leaving with Kyron.

Snipped 'unofficial' transcript:
Nancy Grace: [19:42] Kaine, did Terri ever mention to you leaving the school with Kyron?
Kaine: No, not in any conversation that we had.
Nancy Grace: [19:54] What do you know about potential witnesses that say they observed her leaving with him?
Kaine: Personally, I have no firsthand account of anybody having seen him in the parking lot or heard of them leaving together. Ahh, I’ve heard a lot of second hand information that there is a number of different accounts. There is accounts of people seeing all three of them leaving, because my daughter was with her as well. There is accounts of seeing him by himself in the parking lot getting into vehicles. I’ve heard different kinds of vehicles, not just a truck. And I’ve heard, you know, other accounts of people witnessing her leaving the school by herself. I don’t, I haven’t heard any directly, so that’s, it’s all second hand information. I apologize, but I don’t have any firsthand witness accounts that have been dictated to me personally in that instance. But it’s been a little bit of everything to be honest.
Nancy Grace: Nor do I. In fact many reports state the stepmom leaves without him. That she is observed leaving without him. How many times, can I ask you Kaine, did you go over it and over it and over it with stepmom, Terri?
Kaine: [21:20] Many, many times. Exhaustively. There was a lot of discussion that was occurring post the interaction with the folks at the school and then with law enforcement. And it was pretty much a daily thing. Trying to walk through, you know, who they saw; uhm, recount the steps. Uhm, making sure that, uhm. [21:46] One of my biggest concerns was, you know, did they actually meet up and part ways at the office. Ahh, I didn’t really ever get firsthand information that confirmed their parting at that location. So there was just a lot of conversation about trying to understand exactly what happened, where it happened and how it happened. And then including after, as well. So, it was, there was a lot.
...
Nancy Grace: [31:58] To Annette Newell joining us. KXL news host. Annette, again, thank you for being with us. That parking lot was likely full of parents leaving. Leaving the science fair. But you are telling me evidence has emerged of at least one witness seeing the stepmother leaving with Kyron? Is that correct?
Annette Newell: They were seen out in front of the school by one of Kyron’s friends, his grandma and sister; as well as his bus driver. They were walking out to the main road which is where the truck was parked. That witnesses saw Terri and Kyron leaving the school together that morning and heading toward their truck. According to [KOIN], also, Terri said that she drove around town that day stopping at the two grocery stores to get medicine for her daughter who wasn’t feeling well. Then police found that Terri’s phone pinged around Highway 30, north of Portland. In that time period.
Boy Disappears From Elementary School Science Fair: Where's Kyron Horman?

 

[Truth Prevails]

I’m sure the words in Terri’s ‘hate’ emails haven’t changed since the days in 2010 when she wrote them. They are important to the case because they show motive. (Other sources also show motive but I won’t add those links in this comment).

In one of the links below Kaine admits [timestamp 1:48] he knew of the hatred Terri had for the “both” of them even though earlier in the video he denied knowing Terri hated Kyron. [Timestamp 0:38 for denial].

Tony also saw the emails and has made at least one brief statement about them.

Maybe the best 'evidence' showing that the emails exist is that Desiree threatened to produce the emails in court if Quinn’s father [GM] didn’t let Quinn stay with Desiree and Tony in Medford after Kyron disappeared. Quinn stayed.

[Pg 375] Technically, Desiree didn’t return Quinn at the end of summer. [GM] threatened to go to court. Desiree tried to appeal to [GM’s] “parental nature”. He sent her threatening letters. She had her attorney write him. Quinn stood his ground and stayed in Medford for his last year of high school.
Desiree had something she could leverage. She knew that [GM’s] wife [] and Terri had been emailing before Kyron went missing, each sharing their dislike of their stepsons. She threatened to use the messages in her fight to have Quinn live in Medford.

“Boy Missing—The Search For Kyron Horman” by Rebecca Morris​

Snipped quote: [Nov. 15, 2010] Young said the emails reveal "a severe hatred for Kyron."
"She blames a lot of the marital problems between Kaine and herself on Kyron. It was a huge point of contention in their marriage, and she had expressed in great detail her hatred for Kyron," Young said. "I now believe, without a shadow of a doubt that not only is she capable of hurting Kyron, that it's clear that she could have hurt him in the worst possible way."
Kyron's mother, Desiree Young, appears solo on Today Show saying Terri Horman had 'severe hatred for Kyron'

Snipped quote: [May 29, 2020] Investigators uncovered private emails Terri sent to a friend shortly before Kyron disappeared. The documentary notes the information was not made public but was shared with Desiree and her husband, Tony Young.
“You can see in her own mind, her disdain for Kyron, her resentment wanting him out of the house,” Tony Young says in the documentary. “When you fit that into everything else we knew, that is huge.”
Also in the documentary, Desiree said, “You see how she puts in writing how she hates Kyron and wishing he would just die.”
https://www.koin.com/news/oregon/little-boy-lost-documentary-looks-at-kyron-horman-case/

Snipped transcript: [See timestamp 0:38 for denial].
Dr. Phil: [1:48] So, you think that she might have done something to Kyron to hurt Kaine.
Desiree: Yup.
Kaine: I know of the hatred that she had for the both of us.
Kaine, Desiree appear on 'Dr. Phil'

Something else Kaine denies—the argument beginning on June 3, 2010 and lasting until 3 a.m. on June 4, 2010. (Note the pattern of denial).
Snipped quote: [Sep. 17, 2013] Young said Terri Horman put everything in writing, including saying that she and Kaine Horman had been up arguing until 3 a.m., hours before Kyron disappeared. Young said Terri Horman wrote that her marriage to Kaine Horman was over and that she planned to return to Roseburg the day the boy vanished.
Kaine Horman denied that had been the case. "We didn't fight at all," Horman said.
Kyron Horman's parents, Desiree Young, Kaine Horman air differences on Dr. Phil

Kaine and Desiree are both victims. They aren't responsible for this tragedy. I hope someday they both forgive themselves and each other and know peace and love in their hearts.

Justice for their young son, Kyron! He was 7 years old.

 

[Knox]

Thank you @Truth Prevails, that was a great sourced post. Many of those things I had forgotten.

I can see how it might be painful for Kaine to admit certain things. But he could never predict that Terri's behavior leading up to Kyron's disappearance, would result in his child's death.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

Thank you for the link. I wanted to be sure we were discussing the same interview. Kaine is a victim who appears to be waiting for Terri to tell him she never left his 7-year-old son in the hall by the office like she said she did (in at least one of her versions). It’s so sad. It's been 14 years. I wonder how long he will wait until he accepts what law enforcement has told him.

You here you believe Desiree and not Kaine? Fine, I believe otherwise, but it shows that there is indeed a discrepancy between what Kaine says and what Desiree says.

I believe he has received the same information as Desiree.

Since Kaine wasn’t going to give it up, Ms. Grace got the reporter to explain about the evidence that has emerged of witnesses who saw the stepmother leaving with Kyron.

You forget that the reporter brought it up before the exchanges below, and specified that it was Desiree's claim. So there's no reason to think Grace brought it up again just to counter Kaine.

In the end, Kaine's version is more credible. It's easy to see why Desiree would cling to one of the unverified second-hand accounts that confirmed what she already believed (according to her own words) and present it as fact. But if she had this information from the police in 2010 like the book claims, one has to wonder why she didn't depose any of these witnesses in her civil trial, where that testimony would essentially prove her case. And why would the police keep looking for and asking about Terri's parking spots and unknown people seen outside for months after, when they had confirmed eyewitness statements that Terri and Kyron simply walked out and left together?

My guess? This is just another rumor that got spread around. The police looked at it, saw that according the list of attendants, one of the witnesses, like CL's grandmother, wasn't at the school that morning, and dismissed it. That's what I believe anyway.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

I’m sure the words in Terri’s ‘hate’ emails haven’t changed since the days in 2010 when she wrote them. They are important to the case because they show motive. (Other sources also show motive but I won’t add those links in this comment).

In one of the links below Kaine admits [timestamp 1:48] he knew of the hatred Terri had for the “both” of them even though earlier in the video he denied knowing Terri hated Kyron. [Timestamp 0:38 for denial].

It would be interesting to see the full context for that last clip. But his denial of what the email contained is still clear.

Looking at the quotes and the actions taken, I see no reason to dismiss every statement Kaine says as "denial". It's not as if Kaine hasn't been clear in his belief that Terri was involved. He would have no reason to deny the existance of hate emails, no reason to deny being briefed by LE about witnesses seeing Kyron leave with Terri, no reason to deny he argued with Terri throughout the night. But there is plenty of reason for Desiree to exaggerate, to read into things, to misinterpret, to gravitate towards anything that bolsters her belief, held since day one, that Terri was guilty. It's a normal reaction even for those of us who haven't been through a situation as traumatic as this one.

There's no reason to believe Kaine hasn't been truthful about this.

Tony also saw the emails and has made at least one brief statement about them.

Maybe the best 'evidence' showing that the emails exist is that Desiree threatened to produce the emails in court if Quinn’s father [GM] didn’t let Quinn stay with Desiree and Tony in Medford after Kyron disappeared. Quinn stayed.

But that is only sourced to Desiree herself in the Morris book, and we know there are things in that book that are outright wrong. Here I would very much like to hear the other side of the story. Desiree even admits to there being other reasons and it's not like Q was a kid, he was starting his last year of high school.

Kaine and Desiree are both victims. They aren't responsible for this tragedy. I hope someday they both forgive themselves and each other and know peace and love in their hearts.

They're all victims, Kaine, Desiree, Terri. But mostly Kyron, and that's where my focus is.

 

[rosesfromangels]

The passing of time erodes alliances. I expect a breakthrough in this sad case.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Teche]

Yes. That's another sad case. I just read something had come up with that case.

Something new with Kyron Hormon’s case?

 

[JudiK]

Something new with Kyron Hormon’s case?

Just trying to source that comment. Hold on.

 

[JudiK]

Something new with Kyron Hormon’s case?

Something new

That's from good morning America. I think that's an ok source? Mods?
14 years later: Investigation into disappearance of Kyron Horman continues