GUILTY LA - Jaren Lockhart, 22, New Orleans, 5 June 2012 - #6

[bessie]

I am just not getting the " cut up to remove identifying tattoos" part of the story. LE usually identifies bodies by DNA, not tattoos. Sure tattoos can help ID a body quicker but cutting out tattoos to prevent identification is just stupid. Surely nobody honestly thinks that will keep LE from identifying a body.

There is a more sinister reason for the cutting up of the body. We see TS's prior interest in dismembering from his "Leslie Rice" alias.

Speaks claimed to be Leslie Allan Rice, a man who is from Speaks's hometown. Investigators have spoken to the real Rice who said he had no idea someone was using his name.

http://www.wlox.com/story/18802404/murder-suspect-has-lengthy-criminal-history

 

[bessie]

Good point! IIRC her torso had tattoos intact. And if they removed tattoos to prevent identification why were tattoos left on her torso? Did they just remove certain ones?

Based on tattoos, Hancock County Chief Investigator Glenn Grannan said the additional body parts were enough to identify Jaren Lockhart.
“They all match with the torso based on the tattoos on her body,” Grannan said. “We’re going to continue with the DNA matching process, but now we’re looking into who is responsible.”

https://djournal.com/news/more-body-parts-found-on-mississippi-beaches/

 

[dafffylexer]

First off, thanks to everyone for the warm welcome. Second...

:sick:
One would think that if the murder was an accident then they would be in a rush to get rid of the body.

Exactly! This also indicates to me premeditation. Remember when Jaren was first identified and another dance came out and said that MAS and TS approached her with money to go with them? That, with the tattoo removal (trophies maybe?) shouts premeditation. If it were, then I bet they scouted locations over here on the Coast to hide the body. Sickening to think about.

 

[bessie]

I'm not saying there aren't also darker reasons, but also don't apply normal logic to the acts of a psychopath. I don't know that the thought process is to prevent identification forever, but to delay it long enough to put more time between the act and identification. Gives more time to get back to "normalcy" and develop alibis.

As usual, I agree with you, reedus. See the quote I posted in reply to Ms Bungi. Once a preliminary ID was made vis a vis the tattoos, LE had a starting point for the investigation. Had there been no tattoos or other distinguishing features, the task of making an identification through DNA would have held up the works, and MAS and TS would have been long gone. And had no one filed a missing persons report, we'd be reading this thread in the UID forum among a thousand others, because a DNA profile is useless without a link to connect it to a name. I wonder if the pair were banking on JL having no loved ones who would miss her, as we see with many adult entertainment and sex industry workers who've been estranged from their families. Just a thought.

Having said that, I'm not sure what to think about the reason for removing the tattoos. I recall when I first heard about the tattoos. It was important news because at the time, we were on pins and needles waiting to see if the remains would be those of JL, Brittney Wood, or Mickey Shunick. When I learned of the tattoos, I knew it wasn't Mickey or Britt, but I wasn't sure about Jaren. I recall kind of scrambling to find out if Jaren had tattoos, and soon afterward reading (or hearing) a description of them. Anyway, my point is that JL's tattoos were extensive. Did they really think they could remove all of them? Or a large portion? Because that's what would be required to obscure her identity. So did they start, and then realize they lacked the skills and the time to accomplish it? That notion seems far-fetched even for those two. On the other hand, I'm not quite ready to accept that the intent was to retain a trophy, as some have suggested. Not that it would surprise me. I just don't have enough information yet to draw that conclusion. But then I'm not convinced MAS' s acquaintanceship with Addie Hall was more than a coincidence, either.

 

[MrsBungi]

This all seems so bizarre! I dont know what to think. Was Jaren some sort of scarifice? Was it MAS caught up in the moment were she saw a young beautiful girl and got jealous? Or was MAS so obsessed with Addies murder that she wanted to see for herself what it was like? Zack had days with Addie.....these two just had hours. There are so many unanswered questions. I hope we get some answers.

On a side note Vann (I think your the one who suggested this earlier I cant check while posting). I drove over the BSL bridge today to see where someone might be able to drop something over. Heading east from the Bay it would be nearly impossible to stop, put something over the concrete side, and then across the sidewalk on the south side without being spotted. IMO someone would've seen them. This bridge is always busy! Heading west on the north side doesnt have the sidewalk so that would be easier but you'd still IMO be spotted by someone! Unless they waited and waited for the opportunity when no vehicles were coming...but you'd still be taking a chance.
BUT if you take the first right after the bridge (heading east) theres a dirt road that goes straight to the water where it would be pretty easy to dump...anything into the gulf. I have also pulled this up on Google maps and you can clearly see it. There arent many houses around and its almost directly under the BSL bridge.

 

[Vann]

This all seems so bizarre! I dont know what to think. Was Jaren some sort of scarifice? Was it MAS caught up in the moment were she saw a young beautiful girl and got jealous? Or was MAS so obsessed with Addies murder that she wanted to see for herself what it was like? Zack had days with Addie.....these two just had hours. There are so many unanswered questions. I hope we get some answers.

On a side note Vann (I think your the one who suggested this earlier I cant check while posting). I drove over the BSL bridge today to see where someone might be able to drop something over. Heading east from the Bay it would be nearly impossible to stop, put something over the concrete side, and then across the sidewalk on the south side without being spotted. IMO someone would've seen them. This bridge is always busy! Heading west on the north side doesnt have the sidewalk so that would be easier but you'd still IMO be spotted by someone! Unless they waited and waited for the opportunity when no vehicles were coming...but you'd still be taking a chance.
BUT if you take the first right after the bridge (heading east) theres a dirt road that goes straight to the water where it would be pretty easy to dump...anything into the gulf. I have also pulled this up on Google maps and you can clearly see it. There arent many houses around and its almost directly under the BSL bridge.

It's also full of tall grasses and there is a road that takes you down along the water. There use to be a restaurant back there called Annie's. There were some other structures also but Katrina basically leveled them. So for the most part it is a ghostly abandoned area. I find it even eerie during the day. It sounds as though you are a local so you know exactly what I'm talking about. Last time I was there (about 2 plus years ago) there was a old pier at the very end of that dirt road. And yes it was me that mentioned the railing that separates the walking path and the street. That railing is high so I can't buy the idea that they stopped on the bridge climbed over the railing then hauled a bag or whatever over another railing to get rid of remains. Jmo

 

[MrsBungi]

It's also full of tall grasses and there is a road that takes you down along the water. There use to be a restaurant back there called Annie's. There were some other structures also but Katrina basically leveled them. So for the most part it is a ghostly abandoned area. I find it even eerie during the day. It sounds as though you are a local so you know exactly what I'm talking about. Last time I was there (about 2 plus years ago) there was a old pier at the very end of that dirt road. And yes it was me that mentioned the railing that separates the walking path and the street. That railing is high so I can't buy the idea that they stopped on the bridge climbed over the railing then hauled a bag or whatever over another railing to get rid of remains. Jmo

Yes very tall grass. To be honest I didn't go down to the end. I got really scared....I was by myself. And it takes a lot to scare me. But the thought of all this....whoo I had to turn around. I'll have my husband drive me down there to see if the pier is still there. I'll update ASAP. But I really have to say that you are 100% correct in saying that it's pretty creepy back there and this was around noon. Your word described it perfectly; abandoned. There wasn't a single person, vehicle, or house in sight.

IMO...It would've been/and still is nearly impossible to drop anything from the bridge...it just is so busy. We've been on that bridge at all hours (day & night) and it ALWAYS has traffic.

 

[inthedark14]

If DA charges isn't there some kinda public documents we have access to?
Please forgive me I'm still pretty new at this.

I'm wondering that too. In many cases the documents received from LE are linked in the MSM article. Unless it is a state law or something similar I can only surmise that it is just too awful to put out there.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[reedus23]

Yes very tall grass. To be honest I didn't go down to the end. I got really scared....I was by myself. And it takes a lot to scare me. But the thought of all this....whoo I had to turn around. I'll have my husband drive me down there to see if the pier is still there. I'll update ASAP. But I really have to say that you are 100% correct in saying that it's pretty creepy back there and this was around noon. Your word described it perfectly; abandoned. There wasn't a single person, vehicle, or house in sight.

IMO...It would've been/and still is nearly impossible to drop anything from the bridge...it just is so busy. We've been on that bridge at all hours (day & night) and it ALWAYS has traffic.

This aspect of the case just baffles me. Was there ever a report about the currents or tides in the area? I know there was talk about it being done, but I couldn't remember if anything official was ever released and I couldn't find it when I went back. I don't see how she could have been put into the water in one place anywhere near the bridge and have body parts turn up on both sides of the bay. But then, short of using a boat, nothing makes sense to me that would lead to the body parts turning up where they did. I seem to recall someone posting a google map with a blue line showing the area LE seems to think the body was put in the water, and it was all east of the bay itself. But wouldn't that mean some parts floated west and some east? I guess anything is possible but that makes no sense to this simpleton. Can someone smarter than me help me out about how tides/currents work, particularly in that area.

I would agree that there is probably a .01% chance that they actually put her into the water from atop the bridge. Way too risky. Way too difficult. And they probably drove by hundreds of more secluded spots before that.

 

[dafffylexer]

Was there ever a report about the currents or tides in the area? I know there was talk about it being done, but I couldn't remember if anything official was ever released and I couldn't find it when I went back.

I don't think LE ever did, although I could be wrong. I remember at the time searching for tidal/current information, but couldn't find anything. Still can't, but am really curious to know how the USM team came to their conclusions.

 

[reedus23]

I don't think LE ever did, although I could be wrong. I remember at the time searching for tidal/current information, but couldn't find anything. Still can't, but am really curious to know how the USM team came to their conclusions.

Very amateurish on my part but because I couldn't find anything at all that even tells me which way the currents go around Bay St. Louis I resorted to simply going to YouTube. Absolutely non-scientific, but the youtube I link shows a lady throwing roses into the Gulf around Long Beach Mississippi. Those roses are definitely moving from west to east according to my eye. So if that is, in fact, the direction that the waters carry objects, how is a body placed into the waters on the east side of the bay result in one part being found on the west side? Feeling really stupid here because I can't get past that.

Here's the youtube video that simply shows the scientific test with roses. :floorlaugh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91OfCkzlFYw

 

[bessie]

If DA charges isn't there some kinda public documents we have access to?
Please forgive me I'm still pretty new at this.

I'm wondering that too. In many cases the documents received from LE are linked in the MSM article. Unless it is a state law or something similar I can only surmise that it is just too awful to put out there.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

The law varies among states. Florida, for example, operates a relatively transparent system. Louisiana -- not so much.

[snipped and bolded by me]

RS 44:3
Records of prosecutive, investigative, and law enforcement agencies, and communications districts

A. Nothing in this Chapter shall be construed to require disclosures of records, or the information contained therein, held by the offices of the attorney general, district attorneys, sheriffs, police departments...which records are:

(1) Records pertaining to pending criminal litigation or any criminal litigation which can be reasonably anticipated, until such litigation has been finally adjudicated or otherwise settled, except as otherwise provided in Subsection F of this Section; or

(2) Records containing the identity of a confidential source of information or records which would tend to reveal the identity of a confidential source of information; or

(3) Records containing security procedures, investigative training information or aids, investigative techniques, investigative technical equipment or instructions on the use thereof, criminal intelligence information pertaining to terrorist-related activity, or threat or vulnerability assessments collected or obtained in the prevention of terrorist-related activity, including but not limited to physical security information, proprietary information, operational plans, and the analysis of such information, or internal security information; or

(4)(a) The records of the arrest of a person, other than the report of the officer or officers investigating a complaint, until a final judgment of conviction or the acceptance of a plea of guilty by a court of competent jurisdiction. However, the initial report of the officer or officers investigating a complaint, but not to apply to any followup or subsequent report or investigation, records of the booking of a person as provided in Louisiana Code of Criminal Procedure Article 228, records of the issuance of a summons or citation, and records of the filing of a bill of information shall be a public record.

(b) The initial report shall set forth:

cont.

http://www.legis.state.la.us/lss/lss.asp?doc=99685

 

[bessie]

This aspect of the case just baffles me. Was there ever a report about the currents or tides in the area? I know there was talk about it being done, but I couldn't remember if anything official was ever released and I couldn't find it when I went back. I don't see how she could have been put into the water in one place anywhere near the bridge and have body parts turn up on both sides of the bay. <rsbm>

I don't think LE ever did, although I could be wrong. I remember at the time searching for tidal/current information, but couldn't find anything. Still can't, but am really curious to know how the USM team came to their conclusions.

To my knowledge, this is all that was released.

July 15, 2012

A USM Marine Science survey boat combed the water off Long Beach Friday in the area where several of Lockhart's body parts were found...

"The easiest assumption to make is that they were all put in the water in the same place, but that might not be everybody's assumption," said USM Marine Science Chairman Monty Graham. To answer that key question, the scientists gathered date about waters conditions. Investigators hope that will help pinpoint where and when Lockhart's killer dumped her body.

"What the modeling is going to show you is a few things. It's going to show you how the parts of the body, or any object, but in this case parts of the body, how they interact with wind and current," said Graham.

http://www.wdam.com/story/18802859/usm-marine-science-dept-assist-in-murder-investigation

The article below originally appeared in the The Advocate, but that link no longer works.

July 30, 2012

Oceanographers studying tide flow and wind currents determined Lockhart’s body could not have traveled into Mississippi waters from outside the state in the amount of time between her disappearance and the discovery of her remains, Saucier said.

https://www.bustedinacadiana.com/20...ed-body-found-cooked-in-pots-and-in-the-oven/

 

[Jessen]

This all seems so bizarre! I dont know what to think. Was Jaren some sort of scarifice? Was it MAS caught up in the moment were she saw a young beautiful girl and got jealous? Or was MAS so obsessed with Addies murder that she wanted to see for herself what it was like? Zack had days with Addie.....these two just had hours. There are so many unanswered questions. I hope we get some answers.

I think there was speculation about MAS's obsession with Addie in the very first threads of this case. There is even the question if MAS was her "friend" like she said she was during the Final Witness show.

I forget, was the timing of the murder ever discussed? Jaren was killed June 6/7, 2012. Final Witness episode aired July 4. MAS was probably interviewed a few months before the air date and knew that it would be on tv soon. Maybe she was caught up in the "excitement" of it all and her obsession that she did this.

(Side note: I wish they would've continued Final Witness show.)

 

[ktgirl]

Something to keep in mind when we're thinking about MAS & TS dumping the remains: We're thinking about it logically- places that would be secluded so you wouldn't been seen dumping remains. That's cause we're logical people. MAS & TS are NOT.

Case in point: when they went on the run, to change their looks so as not to be as identifiable, these people dyed their hair bright clown orange-red (TS) and bright BLUE (MAS). Those colors would do nothing but draw attention to themselves. Logical people would dye their hair brunette if they were blonde or vis-a-versa....a hair color that would change their look but help them remain inconspicuous. The colors TS & MAS chose were the exact opposite of inconspicuous. These people deleted all of their FB profile (MAS); dyed their hair bright, highly visible, non-natural hair colors; spoke about the dead dancer to friends they stayed with before the left town; etc.

I can totally see these "geniuses" dropping a body off in the middle of highly traveled well-lit area (and being lucky enough to get away with it...cause many times dumb criminals are just lucky). My guess is they're also too lazy to seek out a more secluded spot.

 

[ktgirl]

Has anyone seen the film "Eastern Promises"? In it, Viggo Mortensen's character works for the Russian mob as someone they bring in to make bodies of people they kill unidentifiable. When I read about MAS & TS trying to remove Jaren's tattoos, it reminded me of a scene where Viggo's character is brought in after a murder to remove the teeth and fingers and how it really must take a "professional" to make a body unidentifiable (not withstanding DNA). It makes me think that MAS & TS were probably playing at being this type of "professional"....but they found it all to be too time-consuming, messy, and strenuous.
Eastern Promises Clip - In UK Cinemas 26th October - Pathe - YouTube

The clip I've linked above isn't graphic but what I'm about to write is a little graphic, so just a disclaimer....

My guess is TS & MAS weren't so much trying to cut off Jaren's tattoos for any nefarious purpose other than to cover their own hides by making her less identifiable. Anyone who watches CSI and shows/movies like that knows fingerprints, tattoos, and teeth are used to ID someone. My guess is removing the tattoos was too hard, especially after dismembering a body, and they got lazy and gave up (they strike me as lazy). Perhaps they even had planned to remove Jaren's fingerprints/tips and teeth but found it all to be too much work. Skinning remains of SO many tattoos has to be time consuming and messy; maybe even more time consuming than dismemberment.

I think MAS & TS had plans to make Jaren as unidentifiable as they could by removing her tattoos but got LAZY and said the heck with it. They thought dismemberment would be enough.

The really ironic thing to me is that had they just placed Jaren's (even intact) body in a swamp (plenty are accessible easily from Kenner), the remains still may not have been found two years later. By dismembering the body and dumping it where it washed ashore on the beach, they practically shouted "Hey! Look at this murder victim! Here's some remains for LE to investigate!"

 

[Donamena]

Has anyone seen the film "Eastern Promises"? In it, Viggo Mortensen's character works for the Russian mob as someone they bring in to make bodies of people they kill unidentifiable. When I read about MAS & TS trying to remove Jaren's tattoos, it reminded me of a scene where Viggo's character is brought in after a murder to remove the teeth and fingers and how it really must take a "professional" to make a body unidentifiable (not withstanding DNA). It makes me think that MAS & TS were probably playing at being this type of "professional"....but they found it all to be too time-consuming, messy, and strenuous.
Eastern Promises Clip - In UK Cinemas 26th October - Pathe - YouTube

The clip I've linked above isn't graphic but what I'm about to write is a little graphic, so just a disclaimer....

My guess is TS & MAS weren't so much trying to cut off Jaren's tattoos for any nefarious purpose other than to cover their own hides by making her less identifiable. Anyone who watches CSI and shows/movies like that knows fingerprints, tattoos, and teeth are used to ID someone. My guess is removing the tattoos was too hard, especially after dismembering a body, and they got lazy and gave up (they strike me as lazy). Perhaps they even had planned to remove Jaren's fingerprints/tips and teeth but found it all to be too much work. Skinning remains of SO many tattoos has to be time consuming and messy; maybe even more time consuming than dismemberment.

I think MAS & TS had plans to make Jaren as unidentifiable as they could by removing her tattoos but got LAZY and said the heck with it. They though dismemberment would be enough.

The really ironic thing to me is that had they just placed Jaren's (even intact) body in a swamp (plenty are accessible easily from Kenner), the remains still may not have been found two years later. By dismembering the body and dumping it where it washed ashore on the beach, they practically shouted "Hey! Look at this murder victim! Here's some remains for LE to investigate!"

Good points, ktgirl

On a side note, I just wanted to see Viggo again so I wrote this little blurb, well, that & that you make valid points. They were & are stupid. But there are lots of other connections & things about them that bother me.

 

[ktgirl]

Good points, ktgirl

On a side note, I just wanted to see Viggo again so I wrote this little blurb, well, that & that you make valid points. They were & are stupid. But there are lots of other connections & things about them that bother me.

Agreed.

 

[ktgirl]

I can't remember....were all of Jaren's remains eventually found or did some parts (so sorry Jaren ) never wash ashore/weren't found?

I found this recent article: "Two days later, her torso washed ashore on a beach in Hancock County, Miss., followed by her head and pieces of her leg." http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2014/05/kenner_police_book_margaret_sa.html
And this from 2012: "Still missing are Lockhart's arms, hands, feet, and a portion of one leg."
http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2012/06/authorities_release_video_of_2.html

Is it safe to assume Jaren's arms, hands, feet, and part of one of her legs is still missing? If her hands are missing, that could just be a coincidence or it could be that MAS & TS disposed of them some other way to try to make IDing her by fingerprints impossible (which, like I said up thread, is why I think they attempted to remove her tattoos before they got lazy/tired of doing so).

 

[bessie]

I snipped from my earlier post, ktgirl. I don't recall that any other remains were found.

Timeline:

Thur, June 7, 2012

6:00 pm - torso, end of Bay Oaks Dr, Bay St. Louis

Sat, June 9, 2012

6:00 am - calf, Emerald Ave, Pass Christian

7:30 am - thigh near Holiday Dr, Pass Christian

8:00 am - head, Pitcher Point, Long Beach

http://www.cbs46.com/story/18745424...issing-new-orleans-woman-pathologist-confirms