LA - Michael Noel, mentally ill man killed by deputy

[Trident]

There needs to be nationwide retraining of every single law enforcement officer on how to de-escalate situations. EVERY situation, but ESPECIALLY those involving the mentally ill and unarmed resisting.

I don't believe the police should be expected to take care of KNOWN mentally ill. That's a job for medical professionals. And, further more, if the family knew he was afraid of police, why did they call them? It seems like that was just asking for trouble on the family's part.

The more I read about these cases, the more I see that we do have a HUGE mental health problem in this country with no solution in sight. I don't know what to do about it - does anyone else on this board? Even so, IF this young man was having a breakdown as his family reported, was it due to his NOT taking his meds? IF so, how can anyone force him or anyone else to comply? There's a lot at stake here, a lot of lives and a lot of money paid out to families, which I believe is utterly ridiculous, but that's another story for another time.

The only thing I do know for sure is I'm sick and tired of these stories, it's like SOS, different day.

:cow:

 

[Trident]

It might be different because in the other officer shootings I've followed LE has made a statement by now. Maybe holding off is the way to handle it so they don't make claims they're forced to change later. But it would still be nice to get an update.

I feel like this case isn't getting nearly as much attention as others and that troubles me.

By attention, do you mean protests?

 

[bluesneakers]

By attention, do you mean protests?

By attention I mean attention.

 

[bluesneakers]

I don't believe the police should be expected to take care of KNOWN mentally ill. That's a job for medical professionals. And, further more, if the family knew he was afraid of police, why did they call them? It seems like that was just asking for trouble on the family's part.

The more I read about these cases, the more I see that we do have a HUGE mental health problem in this country with no solution in sight. I don't know what to do about it - does anyone else on this board? Even so, IF this young man was having a breakdown as his family reported, was it due to his NOT taking his meds? IF so, how can anyone force him or anyone else to comply? There's a lot at stake here, a lot of lives and a lot of money paid out to families, which I believe is utterly ridiculous, but that's another story for another time.

The only thing I do know for sure is I'm sick and tired of these stories, it's like SOS, different day.

:cow:

In this case it was their job. One of their duties as police officers. See the statement from the Coroner's office. So it was on them, and not an unusual task for them to perform. Where others succeeded, they failed miserably.

 

[Trident]

Dr. Joseph Tyler Mental Health Center is named after wonderful doctor that worked at the mental health center when he was killed by a chronically ill mental health patient. He was beloved by many.

So, the educated, experienced doctor was killed by a chronically ill mental patient - and we expect the police to just waltz in and take care of things. Right. If the doctor couldn't stop the patient and save himself, how in hades can we expect the LEOS to do so?

 

[Trident]

In this case it was their job. One of their duties as police officers. See the statement from the Coroner's office. So it was on them, and not an unusual task for them to perform. Where others succeeded, they failed miserably.

Do you have a link for that? Thx

 

[Tawny]

Do you have a link for that? Thx

I provided a police training website link a ways back. It is part of their duties as peace officers.

 

[bluesneakers]

So, the educated, experienced doctor was killed by a chronically ill mental patient - and we expect the police to just waltz in and take care of things. Right. If the doctor couldn't stop the patient and save himself, how in hades can we expect the LEOS to do so?

They do it every day. Every single day people with mental illnesses are taken into custody and transported to hospitals and emergency rooms. It's not a problem. It's not a big deal. Police officers KNOW how to do this. But in this case... I don't know. Were they in a hurry? Impatient? Do they have no regard for human life? Is it easier to shoot than to struggle and actually help a person?

Really. If they were that terrified they could have just run away (and maybe called for help) and told his mother to deal with him. He wasn't threatening her, and I'll bet she would have rather had that happen than to have to watch someone shoot her son.

 

[kimlynn]

I did read the entire sentence and it was nonsensical. It said 'calm him then restrain him…' why restrain him if they could calm him?

The cops are not going to successfully 'calm' someone down who is resisting going to a mental hospital against his will. They can forcibly restrain him but it will not be a calming situation. If his own family could not calm him then how were the cops supposed to do so? They were not and probably not expected to do so. All they can hope to do is overpower him.

It is very unfair for families to call the police to restrain/remove their mentally ill loved ones and then to scream and protest when it goes sideways, imo. If they cannot deal with their loved ones without being frightened and combative how can they expect strangers in uniforms to do so?

A family shouldn't call for help because it isn't fair to LE. A family shouldn't call because LE might shoot family member.
How sad is that,and who were they supposed to call for help?
Is there an org that offers a curbside pick up service for the mentally ill?

 

[Trident]

They do it every day. Every single day people with mental illnesses are taken into custody and transported to hospitals and emergency rooms. It's not a problem. It's not a big deal. Police officers KNOW how to do this. But in this case... I don't know. Were they in a hurry? Impatient? Do they have no regard for human life? Is it easier to shoot than to struggle and actually help a person?

Really. If they were that terrified they could have just run away (and maybe called for help) and told his mother to deal with him. He wasn't threatening her, and I'll bet she would have rather had that happen than to have to watch someone shoot her son.

Obviously it IS a problem, and a big deal. Wasn't it just yesterday when a mentally ill man with the a baseball bat got shot? There's a world of difference between passing the buck to LEOS in a text book situation and real life.

:cow:

 

[bluesneakers]

A family shouldn't call for help because it isn't fair to LE. A family shouldn't call because LE might shoot family member.
How sad is that,and who were they supposed to call for help?
Is there an org that offers a curbside pick up service for the mentally ill?

Lot of cities have something this but it's not what you get when you call 911. You have to call the hospital, a doctor, or a crisis line, and the patient has to be willing to go. I doubt it's available in rural Louisiana. I'm sure she could have called an ambulance if it were an emergency, but it looks like she was doing exactly what she should in order to get her son the care he needed.

The police are supposed to help people. That's why they were there. But for whatever reason they were incapable of doing their jobs. JMO

 

[1&2&3]

And again it happens! Is the only way to resolve anything is shoot to kill? It is evident our police officers are too gun happy and depend on their weapons instead of their brain!

There was no reason for a gun to be withdrawn from its holster in this case. These officers were inside a home, there were two of them against one, and they did not have more strength or power to subdue this man? They had been trained how to talk down a person, not kill them upon resisting going to a mental hospital.

What kind of condition were these officers in? Did their department hold them to a strict diet and fitness program? Or as we see too many times, the officers had gained weight, were chubby, and could not meet the demands a police officer's job requires ? This would apply to sheriff, state police, or any LE.

 

[bluesneakers]

Obviously it IS a problem, and a big deal. Wasn't it just yesterday when a mentally ill man with the a baseball bat got shot? There's a world of difference between passing the buck to LEOS in a text book situation and real life.

:cow:

It's a problem for some, obviously. Others seem to be quite capable in performing the duties of their job.

JMO

 

[kimlynn]

Lot of cities have something this but it's not what you get when you call 911. You have to call the hospital, a doctor, or a crisis line, and the patient has to be willing to go. I doubt it's available in rural Louisiana. I'm sure she could have called an ambulance if it were an emergency, but it looks like she was doing exactly what she should in order to get her son the care he needed.

The police are supposed to help people. That's why they were there. But for whatever reason they were incapable of doing their jobs. JMO

They call it "pink slipped" in my city and once that happens it isn't voluntary. Police always transport as far as I know. I have yet to see anyone coming to the hood in a white coat.
Seems to me it's part of LE job. Very rarely do you hear that someone was shot because they needed to be transported to a mental health facility or hospital. IMO

 

[katydid23]

A family shouldn't call for help because it isn't fair to LE. A family shouldn't call because LE might shoot family member.
How sad is that,and who were they supposed to call for help?
Is there an org that offers a curbside pick up service for the mentally ill?

No, there isn't but maybe there should be.

The cops are not mental health workers. Calling them A HUNDRED times is ridiculous. That is exploiting the situation.

The cops are in a 'no win' situation. The real reason they are being called is not to 'calm' down a bipolar patient. That is a joke. We all know that the sight of uniformed officers, coming to retrain a paranoid schizophrenic, is not going to result in a 'calming' situation. The reason the cops are called is because they can use brute strength to cuff the patients, restrain them and forcibly transport them.

The families are afraid and unable to do so. So they call the officers, a hundred times if necessary, to do it instead. But if the patient reacts in an extremely combative and aggressive fashion, and a physical battle ensues, guess who is going to 'win?' The cops are going to use lethal force if it comes to that. And then they are called the bad guys, accused of being monsters, threatened with murder charges.

So YES, in my opinion, it is an unfair position to place them in. They are being called in because they are strong enough to restrain and force the subject to comply. But if that backfires and it escalates, which is common when someone is having a mental crisis, then we blame the officers for trying to save themselves. They are essentially in a 'no win' situation.

This man, was a paranoid schizophrenic who was afraid of the police, courthouses and hospitals, according to mom. And while in the midst of a breakdown the cops arrive to take him to a hospital against his will. His family stands by watching. Can anyone see what a difficult situation those two cops were in? The family wants them to 'calm down' a schizophrenic who is raging about the family betrayal and the imminent trip to the hospital. And they expect the officers to restrain him and take him by force if necessary. So after getting one cuff on, the man begins to fight back. They bring out the non-lethal weapon and tase him--twice. And all it does is escalate and tamp things up. And at this point they are in a physical struggle with him.

It is unfair to call LE if it is because they are the only ones that have the necessary strength to force compliance---JMO

 

[kimlynn]

No, there isn't but maybe there should be.

The cops are not mental health workers. Calling them A HUNDRED times is ridiculous. That is exploiting the situation.

The cops are in a 'no win' situation. The real reason they are being called is not to 'calm' down a bipolar patient. That is a joke. We all know that the sight of uniformed officers, coming to retrain a paranoid schizophrenic, is not going to result in a 'calming' situation. The reason the cops are called is because they can use brute strength to cuff the patients, restrain them and forcibly transport them.

The families are afraid and unable to do so. So they call the officers, a hundred times if necessary, to do it instead. But if the patient reacts in an extremely combative and aggressive fashion, and a physical battle ensues, guess who is going to 'win?' The cops are going to use lethal force if it comes to that. And then they are called the bad guys, accused of being monsters, threatened with murder charges.

So YES, in my opinion, it is an unfair position to place them in. They are being called in because they are strong enough to restrain and force the subject to comply. But if that backfires and it escalates, which is common when someone is having a mental crisis, then we blame the officers for trying to save themselves. They are essentially in a 'no win' situation.

This man, was a paranoid schizophrenic who was afraid of the police, courthouses and hospitals, according to mom. And while in the midst of a breakdown the cops arrive to take him to a hospital against his will. His family stands by watching. Can anyone see what a difficult situation those two cops were in? The family wants them to 'calm down' a schizophrenic who is raging about the family betrayal and the imminent trip to the hospital. And they expect the officers to restrain him and take him by force if necessary. So after getting one cuff on, the man begins to fight back. They bring out the non-lethal weapon and tase him--twice. And all it does is escalate and tamp things up. And at this point they are in a physical struggle with him.

It is unfair to call LE if it is because they are the only ones that have the necessary strength to force compliance---JMO

Someone posted that the hundred times were for reasons other than transport. I don't care if it was three hundred times as it is part of their job.
Don't blame the family, blame whoever determined that LE would be responsible for transporting those with mental health issues.
Not sure how you can be considered exploiting a situation if the need is there.
And if LE can't subdue a person and take control unless they use a gun then that's on them.

 

[bluesneakers]

Someone posted that the hundred times were for reasons other than transport. I don't care if it were three hundred times as it is part of their job.
Don't blame the family, blame whoever determined that LE would be responsible for transporting those with mental health issues.
Not sure how you can be considered exploiting a situation if the need is there.
And if LE can't subdue a person unless they use a gun then that's on them.

This is absolutely 100% not on the family. Until there's evidence to prove otherwise I believe his mother was doing exactly what she needed to do, exactly what she'd done before, and exactly what was best for her son. This isn't a decision you make hastily or lightly, and if Michael had schizophrenia and bipolar disorder (which is what she said he has) he was vulnerable and it's no surprise he might be in crisis and in need of help.

The only person responsible for what happened, imo, is the person who pulled the trigger and killed him.

But what do I know. Maybe Michael Noel failed to avoid injury or something.

JMO

 

[Yvettea]

exactly what was best for her son. This isn't a decision you make hastily or lightly, and if Michael had schizophrenia and bipolar disorder (which is what she said he has) he was vulnerable and it's no surprise he might be in crisis and in need of help.

The only person responsible for what happened, imo, is the person who pulled the trigger and killed him. JMO

This can't be only about what is exactly right for Michael. There are other people whose safety comes into consideration. If Michael was off his medication he most likely was not only in a crisis and in need of help, he was dangerous. Not defending what happened but pointing out the enormity of the decision that needed to be made. And the potential for mistakes to happen.

 

[bluesneakers]

This can't be about what is exactly right for Michael. There are other people who safety comes in to consideration. Michael was off his medication he most likely was not only in a crisis and in need of help, he was dangerous. Not defending what happened but pointing out enormity of the decision that needed to be made. And the potential for mistakes to happen.

How do you know he was off his medication?

His mother and aunt have both said he wasn't violent or dangerous.

 

[Yvettea]

How do you know he was off his medication?

His mother and aunt have both said he wasn't violent or dangerous.

I don't know he was off his medicine; how would anyone know if he's refusing to go with them. If he wasn't violent or dangerous when left at home I would back off and leave him at home if I were police person.