LA - Michael Noel, mentally ill man killed by deputy

[Kimberlyd125]

There have been no reports that he assaulted anybody.

There have been no reports at all except from the family.

He may have. He may not have. We don't know.

I think if he was so upset that he was tazed twice and still stood up to resist, that its quite possible he assaulted the officers.
Intentionally or not.

Possible.

IMO

 

[Yvettea]

There have been no reports that he assaulted anybody.

There have been no reports of bruises or scrapes.

 

[Yvettea]

In fact what I've seen reported about Michael is he was a friendly guy who wouldn't hurt anybody, non-violent. So what happened?

 

[Tawny]

There have been no reports at all except from the family.

He may have. He may not have. We don't know.

I think if he was so upset that he was tazed twice and still stood up to resist, that its quite possible he assaulted the officers.
Intentionally or not.

Possible.

IMO

So I feel we need to stop making assumptions about his actions until we have more information. I've already seen people decide he must have reached for the officer's weapon, he could have grabbed a neck, he was going to hurt somebody in the future.

All we have to go on is why the officers were there and that he ended up shot in the chest. We need to wait for more information, IMO.

Honestly, this is the first shooting I've paid attention to wherein the sheriff didn't make a statement at all. I haven't decided if that's better than the other cases where they did... Still waiting.

 

[katydid23]

There have been no reports that he assaulted anybody.

Putting handcuffs on someone is a very simple process. A cop can do it in seconds. The fact that they were only able to get one hand cuffed, and then they had to tase him twice, says to me that he was fighting them hard. How else can a small statured man prevent two deputies from putting the second cuff on?

 

[katydid23]

So I feel we need to stop making assumptions about his actions until we have more information. I've already seen people decide he must have reached for the officer's weapon, he could have grabbed a neck, he was going to hurt somebody in the future.

All we have to go on is why the officers were there and that he ended up shot in the chest. We need to wait for more information, IMO.

Honestly, this is the first shooting I've paid attention to wherein the sheriff didn't make a statement at all. I haven't decided if that's better than the other cases where they did... Still waiting.

We have more to go on that that. We know that two officers were trying to hand cuff him and were only able to get one hand cuffed. What does that tell us?

 

[Tawny]

Putting handcuffs on someone is a very simple process. A cop can do it in seconds. The fact that they were only able to get one hand cuffed, and then they had to tase him twice, says to me that he was fighting them hard. How else can a small statured man prevent two deputies from putting the second cuff on?

We have more to go on that that. We know that two officers were trying to hand cuff him and were only able to get one hand cuffed. What does that tell us?

Resisting is not the same as assault. That's why there are different charges for "resisting arrest" and "assault on an officer".

 

[katydid23]

Resisting is not the same as assault. That's why there are different charges for "resisting arrest" and "assault on an officer".

But resisting two officers and preventing them from cuffing the second hand would be a hard thing to do. In my opinion it would mean 'fighting' them. It is very hard to prevent two deputies from cuffing you without actually fighting back. I do not think he would have been shot if he was just resisting and not fighting. And there would not be reports of injuries, imo.

 

[Tawny]

But resisting two officers and preventing them from cuffing the second hand would be a hard thing to do. In my opinion it would mean 'fighting' them. It is very hard to prevent two deputies from cuffing you without actually fighting back. I do not think he would have been shot if he was just resisting and not fighting. And there would not be reports of injuries, imo.

Ever tried to put pants on a squirmy toddler? Resisting.

 

[Yvettea]

I think it's safe to speculate they would have cuffed that squirming toddler easily.

 

[Tawny]

I think it's safe to speculate they would have cuffed that squirming toddler easily.

Not if the squirming toddler were the size of a grown man.

 

[Yvettea]

Not if the squirming toddler were the size of a grown man.

Yes, even a grown man who was squirming.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

So I feel we need to stop making assumptions about his actions until we have more information. I've already seen people decide he must have reached for the officer's weapon, he could have grabbed a neck, he was going to hurt somebody in the future.

All we have to go on is why the officers were there and that he ended up shot in the chest. We need to wait for more information, IMO.

Honestly, this is the first shooting I've paid attention to wherein the sheriff didn't make a statement at all. I haven't decided if that's better than the other cases where they did... Still waiting.

If we can only discuss what has been officially reported on, we need to stop all discussion.

Nobody had stated AS FACT that he assaulted LE. But some have said its possible. Just as others have said its possible the officers had abrasions from the scuffle. It's all speculation and opinion on what may have happened.

All we have right now is speculation and opinion on what we think MAY have happened. None of us were there.

<modsnip>

Nothing has been stated as fact without a link that I have seen.

JMO

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

I don't doubt the family and friends when they say he was friendly and non violent. He probably was for the most part. It's a difficult disease to understand, especially if you haven't been around a schizophrenic, bi polar person. IMO

 

[katydid23]

Ever tried to put pants on a squirmy toddler? Resisting.

Yes, but it is relatively easy if they are just squirming.

Our cat squirms and resists when we try to put him in his car carrier. But we can manage to do it.

Recently I tried to help my daughter put a 'wild' cat that she has been feeding, into a carrier because he needed medical treatment. We finally gave up because he was not only resisting but he was actively biting and scratching in response. She eventually drugged him and got him to their vet that way.

 

[bluesneakers]

If we can only discuss what has been officially reported on, we need to stop all discussion.

Nobody had stated AS FACT that he assaulted LE. But some have said its possible. Just as others have said its possible the officers had abrasions from the scuffle. It's all speculation and opinion on what may have happened.

All we have right now is speculation and opinion on what we think MAY have happened. None of us were there.

<modsnip>

Nothing has been stated as fact without a link that I have seen.

JMO

We have several statements from witnesses. That's not speculation.

 

[Sillybilly]

Stop the bickering, snark and general LE bashing in this thread.

Discuss the case at hand and don't argue just because there is a lack of information.

:tyou:

 

[Kimberlyd125]

We have several statements from witnesses. That's not speculation.

But they have not stated (well not that I have seen) how the officers got their injuries or what type or injuries they had.

So discussing this is speculation and I think that's fine either way. As long as its not stated as fact.

Some think it could be mere abrasions from a scuffle. Others think they could have been caused by a more combative Mr. Noel. Maybe it was more physical than a slight scuffle.

IMO this could be a huge factor in the case as to wether the shooting was justified.

JMO

 

[Archangel7]

Having served these Mental Writ papers, numerous times and of course been the primary or secondary officer responding to issues with Mental Health a few things come to mind....

Most of the time I had no issues one on one with the subject and some where in extremely bad shape before we got the call. One tried to sink out of sight of the rear view mirror after making faces at himself in it then slipping out of view and trying to reach under the seat to grab my legs as I drove.

Others were combative with their parents(grown men 30+) and were huge. One couldn't fit in my 4 door Ford Crown Vic. and was combative instantly with the primary officer but calmed down immediately when he saw me and actually became friendly and even apologised to me when he couldn't fit in the back seat.

Which brings me to this...As in the above case, there seems to be something that clicks in their mind often. Just the face, or something about a person can set them into a violent episode.

I have also experienced it where I arrived as backup, walked inside and at the instant the subject saw me, they went into a violent episode. It is the nature of the mental illness.

Also in all cases the family said they knew the subject to be calm and non combative and I believe them but mentally ill people are extremely unpredictable due to their illness.

I could see possibilities where Noel did just as I mentioned and the combative nature presented and the resisting by Noel escalated beyond being tased twice.

<modsnip>
Once a shooting takes place, another agency outside of the one involved takes over the investigation. Once that happens the agency involved in the shooting has no authority to address any questions or speak to the investigation unless given permission.

Due to the protection of privacy, and in order to not color the officer involved either way(WRT any possible future civil suit)the investigating agency won't publicize evidence either way until non prejudicial due process is carried out.

In every job I have ever had whether LE or non LE, it was exactly the same when there was a death during work and at work. So an investigation, no public info released during investigation and due process followed the evidence.

 

[Tawny]

Might be a while before we get any more information. Seems the department is quite busy right now:

http://www.katc.com/story/30836922/...-four-officer-involved-shooting-in-seven-days