Laura Babcock Murder Trial 10.30.17 - Day 6

[Claroon]

Seems from the timeline, her body may have been in the barn 20 days! No wonder smell check.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Hb6kEtpLa8cHCVorBuy4yqfHymGvhfHeM6s8QMWGVW8/pubhtml

 

[Woodland]

Blackmail can be as simple as saying you'll kill yourself if you don't get what you want from someone.

I understand that implication, however all testimony where LB mentioned suicide, it was clarified by the witness that LB never said she thought/planned that for herself - only that she would in fact mention it in general terms. No one feared she was threatening to do this to herself - including no one offering to get her any help for such expressions.

Then again, the group has not shown much integrity in any area.

Letting the word 'extortion' ride in this thread is a error imo - the word was not used by any witness nor by anyone examining a witness. It's stated as fact rather than an opinion. Imo some have taken the word as testimonial fact and the word that was used - blackmail - has no facts/examples or incidents to back it up. Fwiw, not finding it condescending to ask about the awareness of the definition of extortion.

LB was not perfect but have 'a thing' for facts rather than conjecture of facts.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
"I would say she was attracted to you, and she talked about how she liked you," Orr says of #Babcock's feelings toward #Millard

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
#Babcock talked about #Millard more after she and Shawn Lerner broke up. Told Orr she saw #Millard for marijuana and sex.

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
Feb 12 was Laura's birthday. Orr remembers the text from Noudga came to #Babcock on her birthday. Orr doesn't remember follow-up q's

 

[Claroon]

I understand that implication, however all testimony where LB mentioned suicide, it was clarified by the witness that LB never said she thought/planned that for herself - only that she would in fact mention it in general terms. No one feared she was threatening to do this to herself - including no one offering to get her any help for such expressions.

Then again, the group has not shown much integrity in any area.

Letting the word 'extortion' ride in this thread is a error imo - the word was not used by any witness nor by anyone examining a witness. It's stated as fact rather than an opinion. Imo some have taken the word as testimonial fact and the word that was used - blackmail - has no facts/examples or incidents to back it up. Fwiw, not finding it condescending to ask about the awareness of the definition of extortion.

LB was not perfect but have 'a thing' for facts rather than conjecture of facts.

In general terms of the laity some of us think of extortion and blackmail in the same light. It was DM that alluded to her using blackmail. No, he didn't prove it.

 

[Claroon]

In general terms of the laity some of us think of extortion and blackmail in the same light. It was DM that alluded to her using blackmail. No, he didn't prove it.

Also, since DM is on trial, it could be telling that he would bring that up. Perhaps that was something involved that he knows about. It's called being sloppy.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Shannon Martin
Millard asks Orr about questionable characters Babcock introduced her to, that were connected to Babcock through escorting. She names a Dave and Nat.

Millard asks if Orr met any of Babcock's escorting clients. She did not.

Millard asks if Babcock told her about any clients she'd seen recently, during their last conversation in July. Orr says she did not have a booking lined up that night. She plans, not to see a client. Orr says during this conversation Babcock was on cocaine.

Millard goes back to the text messages he was exchanging with Babcock and his relationship with her - before Laura was with Shawn Lerner and after.

Orr says she only knows the detail of one sexual encounter - Millard and Babcock went shopping at Sherway Gardens because Millard "would pay for everything." The two had sex after in the parking lot, in Millard's car.

Millard now questions Babcock's mental health and her medication.

Orr says her friend had emotional issues but she's "not a doctor" so she doesn't know the number of medications she was on. Orr is clear when she tells the jury Babcock was adamant about taking her meds consistently.

Millard, "Laura's your good friend right?"

Orr responds, "Was, yes."

Millard says, "She was an honest person?"

Orr responds, "to me yes."

Millard says Orr would believe anything Babcock told her. Orr agrees.

Orr says Babcock told her she and Millard had a thing going for a quite awhile. He would give her marijuana and they would have sex.

Millard is now circling back to text messages between Babcock and Noudga.

Court has heard extensively about the texting feud between Noudga and Babcock.

On Friday, we heard from another friend Karoline Shirinian that on Babcock's birthday, Feb. 12, 2012, she and Noudga thought it would be funny to send a catty message to Babcock.
Noudga crafted the text to Babcock, Shirinian said. It read: "Happy birthday. A year ago today was the first time I slept with Dellen."

Shirinian told the jury Babcock immediately sent a reply: "That's fine, I slept with him a couple of weeks ago."

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
Millard: "I understand your memory is a little fuzzy. I would suggest to you there were follow up texts." Orr can't assume that.

 

[SnooperDuper]

In general terms of the laity some of us think of extortion and blackmail in the same light. It was DM that alluded to her using blackmail. No, he didn't prove it.

I think emotional blackmail like talking about suicide not actual blackmail for money is the meaning.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
"She specifically always talked about you. I remember how happy she was when she came home and said she had sex with you that day," Orr says

Shannon Martin
Today, Orr told the court she was with Babcock when she received and sent the birthday text messages.

Orr said Noudga sent the following reply to Babcock's:

Did you miss your medication today? You're a crazy psycho ***** just trying to get my boyfriend. You had him and you lost him. Give it up.

Millard has wrapped his cross examination.

Mark Smich's Thomas Dungey is now up.

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
#Millard is done. Dungey up for #Smich now. Was Laura #Babcock out of her mind on cocaine the last she and Orr spoke? No, she was coherent

marianne boucher‏ @CityCourtsTO
Orr says she recalls how happy Laura Babcock was, when she told her,
she had slept with Millard.
Millard is finished in cross.

 

[andreww]

The text messages between #Millard and Laura #Babcock, was there any mention of a jeep? Or truck? Not that Orr can recall

This will come up again, mark my words.


I think the insinuation will be that because LB knew that DM had given AM a vehicle, she wanted one too.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
Orr says her statement to police was that #Babcock was doing cocaine "basically every other day" and "out of her mind," Orr says

Shannon Martin‏ @ShannonMartinTV
Millard has wrapped his cross examination. Mark Smich's lawyer Thomas Dungey is now up.

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
Laura #Babcock had been planning to move in with Nate, after she checked out of the hotel, she told Orr.

Shannon Martin‏ @ShannonMartinTV
He asks a few quick questions and finishes.

Shannon Martin
After a few brief questions, Smich's lawyer Thomas Dungey has finished.

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
Crown wants to clear up confusion about text messages. Orr wasn't sure what Noudga texted first, just what #Babcock replied, & Noudga after

 

[Nosey Parker]

I think emotional blackmail like talking about suicide not actual blackmail for money is the meaning.

I'm taking it to mean manipulative.

 

[Inspector_North]

"Orr says she only knows the detail of one sexual encounter - Millard and Babcock went shopping at Sherway Gardens because Millard "would pay for everything." The two had sex after in the parking lot, in Millard's car. "


Marlena Meneses mentioned that DM took her shopping instead of paying her for doing MS's dirty bathroom cleaning at the hanger.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Shannon Martin
Crown Jill Cameron is trying to clarify something Millard's questioning brought up - that Babcock was planning to move into a friend's place (a man called Nate, Orr only remembers his first name) after she planned to leave a hotel at the end of June.

Her former boyfriend and close friend Shawn Lerner was paying for Babcock to stay in a hotel, after she bounced around a few places. She'd disagreed with her parents about house rules. We also know she was staying with a high school friend who introduced her to escorting in the spring of 2012.

These may seem minor or confusing details at the moment, but it's all part of the case the Crown's building. We'll likely hear more about this later.

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
Orr is done, so is court today. #Babcock

 

[andreww]

I'm taking it to mean manipulative.

I think we will learn she wanted a Jeep or truck.

 

[ILoveDateline]

[emoji33][emoji378][emoji879] work just blocked WS. [emoji24] Right in the middle of my catching up. Horrors!

That means no more posting tweets for me, not that I've been of much help recently.

Now that I'm relegated to using my crappy device and Tapatalk to post, it's difficult for me to link. I found a document called, evidence of the absent witness, which outlines ways in which evidence can be entered, avenues to compelling, testimony from out of country witness. Hope this link works www.mcmillian.ca/files/pmacdonald_evidence_presentation_0907.pdf

I need a new job.

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk

 

[redwing7225]

If I may...I'm just sifting through some of the other threads in here trying to refresh my memory of CN's lesser plea agreement and details regarding dates and charges against MS and DM.

May 11, 2013 - DM charged fc
May 15, 2013 - DM charge upgraded to M1
May 22, 2013 - MS arrested
April 10, 2014: 21-year-old Christina Noudga is charged with accessory after the fact to murder in connection with the death of Tim Bosma.On the same day, Dellen Millard is charged with the murder of his father Wayne Millard and missing Toronto woman Laura Babcock. Millard’s co-accused, Mark Smich, is also charged with murder in connection to Babcock’s death.

Why did CN not get rid of/destroy the letters, recording from hanger etc? And what could LE have found during that search which lead them to charge DM and MS with LB murder?
Is it possible that CN sang like a canary knowing her knight was going to be locked up?

 

[Nosey Parker]

I think we will learn she wanted a Jeep or truck.

Really? I hadn't gone there but now I see the trail you are following.

 

[ILoveDateline]

We know that after her hotel stay had ended LB was at the end of her rope. She didn't have anywhere to go as she'd left her roommate and been kicked out of bar guy's pad. So she makes multiple calls to Millard. At this point CN already knows that DM & LB had been sleeping together, so she really didn't have any leverage there. Something was compelling enough that after 8 calls, Millard agreed to see her.

Or she showed up at his house after he refused to she her. Either is possible.

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk

 

[SnooperDuper]

[emoji33][emoji378][emoji879] work just blocked WS. [emoji24] Right in the middle of my catching up. Horrors!

That means no more posting tweets for me, not that I've been of much help recently.

Now that I'm relegated to using my crappy device and Tapatalk to post, it's difficult for me to link. I found a document called, evidence of the absent witness, which outlines ways in which evidence can be entered, avenues to compelling, testimony from out of country witness. Hope this link works www.mcmillian.ca/files/pmacdonald_evidence_presentation_0907.pdf

I need a new job.

You have an extra "i" in your link; here's the correct version:

http://www.mcmillan.ca/files/pmacdonald_evidence_presentation_0907.pdf

 

[ILoveDateline]

This line of questioning could be to prove LB embellished. Though, I wouldn't blame the guy for not admitting to it.



Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk