Laura Babcock Murder Trial 11.01.17 - Day 8

[Kamille]

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews now23 seconds ago
Abuhav has had several escort companies. Told police there are 1000s of agencies in Toronto, more than $100k escorts. Says pop of GTA 2.5mil

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews now1 minute ago
"He's not a demographer," judge reminds #Millard, who is questioning witness about what constitutes his idea of Toronto.

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews now33 seconds ago
Not unusual for escort agency to have many websites, but Abuhav had 20, "to get to the top of the search list," he agrees with #Millard

Shannon Martin‏ @ShannonMartinTV now4 seconds ago
Millard asks the witness about the size of the escorting business in Toronto. How many escorts are there? How many people live in Toronto?

Shannon Martin‏ @ShannonMartinTV now1 minute ago
Justice Michael Code interrupts: "Mr. Millard, he's not a demographer. I'm not sure how useful his estimates are."
Millard moves on.

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews now54 seconds ago
Laura #Babcock was on one or two of the websites as "El." That's how clients would ask for her.

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews now7 seconds ago
Is Montreal also popular for escort services? "Yes, but much smaller," says Abuhav. #Millard wonders if that's bc of smaller population.

Shannon Martin‏ @ShannonMartinTV now25 seconds ago
Millard now asks the witness about the escorting business in Montreal.
"Do girls from Toronto go to Montreal to do escort work?"

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews now17 seconds ago
Millard wonders if escorts travel between cities to work. "All the time," says Abuhav. #Babcock

Shannon Martin‏ @ShannonMartinTV now14 seconds ago
The witness answers, "yes that happens."

 

[Kamille]

Millard asks the witness about the size of the escorting business in Toronto. How many escorts are there? How many people live in Toronto?

The witness throws out some numbers.

Justice Michael Code interrupts: "Mr. Millard, he's not a demographer. I'm not sure how useful his estimates are."

Millard moves on.
by Shannon Martin 12:16 PM

Millard now asks the witness about the escorting business in Montreal.

"Do girls from Toronto go to Montreal to do escort work?"

The witness answers, "yes that happens."

 

[billandrew]

From the texts between Millard and Matthew Ward-Jackson on February 10, 2012, it is apparent that he rented/borrowed a gun from him that day. I say rented/borrowed rather than purchased because MWJ wrote, "bring her back safe plz". Millard's response was, "by the time I let her go she'll be a dirty girl". Texts from February 11 reveal Millard going back to MWJ to pick up "grain" (bullets). Coincidentally, Babcock's birthday was February 12. Perhaps Millard was planning to kill her around that time and return the gun to MWJ? From further texts on February 13 and 14, it seems there was some confusion around the type of gun and the bullets needed to use it, so it could be that Millard's initial plan was foiled.

It wasn't until a few months later (May 2012) that Millard was setting out to acquire an incinerator. He must have realized that you can't just kill someone without a plan to dispose of their body. Then, on the day he found out the Eliminator had cleared border customs, he goes out and kills Babcock that night. Coincidence, perhaps? Or maybe he naively assumed that the incinerator would just work out of the box?

Another issue is that he didn't have the trailer for the incinerator right away, so he couldn't easily move it to the farm where Babcock's body was stashed. IIRC, the trailer was custom built by Schlatman at the hangar. Millard was probably very anxious and pushing Schlatman to complete this project as fast as possible. Schlatman was also tasked with making the incinerator operational. IIRC, there was a lot of setting up involved and they had to install a fuel tank, etc. On July 9, 2012, Schlatman emailed the incinerator dealer asking about the fuel needed for a "full burn". No wonder that it took almost 3 weeks until they could finally cremate LB's remains.

*Edit to remove something about another murder that is no longer relevant!

 

[Ashley96]

If I were to guess, I'd think that doctor who was taking her on the promised trip to Disney or Vegas will be a witness...confirm that story but testify that Laura unexpectedly disappeared before that happened.

I'm not a legal expert, but I assume part of Crowns job is to take away possible defenses or stories that the defense might come up with
Defense can't argue that she DID go on that trip and disappeared in the USA (because Crown has already addressed the fact she didn't enter the US during or after that time)

Defense will have a big challenge arguing she intentionally planned her suicide/disappearance (because Crown has brought witnesses to show she was looking forward to the future..to this trip...she even went so far as to drop her dog off at her parents (and the dog apparently went everywhere with her...)...she had issues for sure, but was still social...not disconnecting from the world..

Defense can't argue accidental overdose because then her body would have been found

Of course Defense will develop a story or two that can 'possibly' fit the evidence (like a mystery guy that 'could' have done it ) but I'm also assuming most/all? people on her phone list are now testifying or gave police statements and were cleared of suspicion.

Defense can suggest she moved to Montreal to start a new life (but without her dog and money??)

The jury will be smart enough to weigh ALL the evidence they will see and hear and see through defense story weaving (like they did with TB) MOO

 

[Kamille]

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews now7 seconds ago
Millard is asking whether witness knows a couple of other girls, including Julia "Tripell." Abuhav knew them all as having worked with him

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews 30s30 seconds ago
They were friends since high school, Abuhav says. All he knows is the girls seemed to get along. Had seen them do cocaine.

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews now50 seconds ago
Abuhav told police to speak to Julia and Candace, the other woman he's been talking about, after they called about #Babcock disappearance

 

[Typhoo1961]

She told him she liked the guy, he worked in the film business.

Harvey Weinsten?

 

[Inspector_North]

Harvey Weinsten?

Too Soon!

 

[Kamille]

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews 2m2 minutes ago
"It was just more information," Abuhav explains of his statement to police. #Millard asking about office description.

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews 1m1 minute ago
Did Laura ever use cocaine at your office? #Millard. "I don't remember," Abuhav says. Office had moved by time he spoke to police in 2013

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews now1 minute ago
Millard is done. Dungey, for #Smich, gets Abuhav to agree that sometimes girls work for several different agencies.

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews now31 seconds ago
Abuhav says girls can make unlimited money if a client likes them. Says girls get into the work for money and "lifestyle." Drugs he says

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews now15 seconds ago
It is a "risky" career option, Abuhav says girls are safer when they're with an agency. Dungey is done.

 

[Kamille]

Millard finishes his questions.

Smich's lawyer Thomas Dungey is up now. He asks about "girls" going back to client's houses on their own and how much money they can make.

"It's unlimited," the witness says.

Dungey says, "It's a dangerous job."

The witness says "It is risky."

Dungey, "That's why you have security set up, to protect the girls?"

Witness says the security is to protect everyone.
by Shannon Martin 12:30 PM

Dungey says "there are a lot of shady characters that go into the business?"

Witness agrees.

Dungey finishes.
by Shannon Martin 12:30 PM

 

[Kamille]

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews now23 seconds ago
Crown has agreed statement of fact: Statement of Karoline Shirinian to police, that Babcock talked about places she'd go with paid dates

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews now51 seconds ago
Babcock would get $25 to have a drink with a guy, she told Shirinian & at end of night would get a wad of cash and cocaine.

 

[inbetweendoors]

From the texts between Millard and Matthew Ward-Jackson on February 10, 2012, it is apparent that he rented/borrowed a gun from him that day. I say rented/borrowed rather than purchased because MWJ wrote, "bring her back safe plz". Millard's response was, "by the time I let her go she'll be a dirty girl". Texts from February 11 reveal Millard going back to MWJ to pick up "grain" (bullets). Coincidentally, Babcock's birthday was February 12. Perhaps Millard was planning to kill her around that time and return the gun to MWJ? From further texts on February 13 and 14, it seems there was some confusion around the type of gun and the bullets needed to use it, so it could be that Millard's initial plan was foiled.

It wasn't until a few months later (May 2012) that Millard was setting out to acquire an incinerator. He must have realized that you can't just kill someone without a plan to dispose of their body. Then, on the day he found out the Eliminator had cleared border customs, he goes out and kills Babcock that night. Coincidence, perhaps? Or maybe he naively assumed that the incinerator would just work out of the box?

Another issue is that he didn't have the trailer for the incinerator right away, so he couldn't easily move it to the farm where Babcock's body was stashed. IIRC, the trailer was custom built by Schlatman at the hangar. Millard was probably very anxious and pushing Schlatman to complete this project as fast as possible. Schlatman was also tasked with making the incinerator operational. IIRC, there was a lot of setting up involved and they had to install a fuel tank, etc. On July 9, 2012, Schlatman emailed the incinerator dealer asking about the fuel needed for a "full burn". No wonder that it took almost 3 weeks until they could finally cremate LB's remains.

*Bonus thought: on February 16, 2012, a 24 year old girl named Vanessa Fotheringham went missing from London, Ontario. It seems she had fallen into a similar life situation as Babcock. She has never been found. Is it a coincidence that this is around the same time Millard acquired his gun and finally got bullets for it? I know it's a stretch, but let's say:

• He just got his gun and was excited to use it.
• He went out at night looking for a vulnerable suspect similar to Babcock. We know that he liked to go out on late-night "missions", mostly theft missions involving his friends. This was a special, covert mission that he could have done alone.
• He went out somewhere away from his home turf, i.e. London instead of Toronto, to minimize the chance of being recognized. Also, London is pretty far away, but not super far away from Millard's farm.
• Given his lifestyle at the time, Millard knew how to attract people like Babcock and Fotheringham. He was also no stranger to stripper/escort type girls. Fotheringham had mental health and substance abuse issues and could have been involved in the underground business of prostitution. She would have been the perfect target for Millard.
• Supposing he killed her in mid-February, it's possible that he realized how difficult it was to dispose of a body, and this delayed his plot to kill Babcock and eventually led him down the path to acquire the incinerator.

Interesting theory, however if she's never been found, wouldn't that mean he *did* know how to dispose of a body without an incinerator?

Edit: post no longer relevant

 

[Kamille]

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews now40 seconds ago
The second agreed statement of fact is about #Babcock getting treatment for mental health issues.

Shannon Martin‏ @ShannonMartinTV now29 seconds ago
"They had a stack of documents from Ms. Babcock's mental health treatments," he says. The information comes from three different hospitals.

Shannon Martin‏ @ShannonMartinTV now3 seconds ago
There are eight pages, a summary of Babcock's mental health records.
Crown Jill Cameron will read through it now.

 

[Ashley96]

*Bonus thought: on February 16, 2012, a 24 year old girl named Vanessa Fotheringham went missing from London, Ontario. It seems she had fallen into a similar life situation as Babcock. She has never been found.

[FONT=&quot]One of London’s most perplexing missing persons cases appears to have been solved after 32-year-old Antonio Valentin Resendez Cortez was charged one count of second degree murder in the death of Vanessa Fotheringham.
[/FONT]https://www.ourlondon.ca/news-story/6470011-update-charges-filed-in-death-of-vanessa-fotheringham/[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

 

[Kamille]

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews now15 seconds ago
Aug 17, 2011, #Babcock was a patient with "vague suicidal thoughts" and told workers she suffered extreme anxiety, led to her going to emerg

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews now11 seconds ago
Laura #Babcock later told a psychiatrist she had a fear of death, was very close to her parents and not sure why she felt this way.

Shannon Martin‏ @ShannonMartinTV now58 seconds ago
Cameron tells the jury about a hospital visit in 2011. Among the notes about Babcock
-Suffered extreme anxiety and was crying all the time

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews now8 seconds ago
Laura #Babcock wondered constantly what would happen to her after she died. Told docs when she gets anxious, she obsesses about death

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews now16 seconds ago
She told docs she was not suicidal because she "loved life" and feared death. Laura #Babcock

 

[Kamille]

There are eight pages, a summary of Babcock's mental health records.

Crown Jill Cameron will read through it now.
by Shannon Martin 12:35 PM

Cameron tells the jury about a hospital visit in 2011.

Among the notes about Babcock:

"Suffered extreme anxiety and was crying all the time."

"She had a feeling in her stomach and she couldn't take it anymore."
by Shannon Martin 12:36 PM

On another hospital, Babcock told nurses she became anxious and obsessive about thoughts of death, and what happens after death.

On a third visit in 2011, Babcock talked about an intense fear of death. A feeling that could last one day to months.

On a fourth visit in 2011, Babcock told a nurse that she denied thoughts of self harm and hallucination.
by Shannon Martin 12:38 PM

On yet another visit, Babcock told health care workers she was having a hard time making decisions, and thought it would be easier to be dead. She also talked about troubles with her parents and not wanting to go home.

On another visit, Babcock told a doctor she'd been feeling anxious since she was five, and that's led to depression.

She said she'd cut her self. She doesn't want to die, but likes to see the blood.
by Shannon Martin 12:39 PM

 

[Inspector_North]

Interesting theory, however if she's never been found, wouldn't that mean he *did* know how to dispose of a body without an incinerator?

Ah! But we learned from the TB trial that DM was a schemer always looking for quicker and easier way.

 

[Jealoushe]

She somehow knew her own fate. How sad and scary for her.

 

[billandrew]

One of London’s most perplexing missing persons cases appears to have been solved after 32-year-old Antonio Valentin Resendez Cortez was charged one count of second degree murder in the death of Vanessa Fotheringham.
https://www.ourlondon.ca/news-story/6470011-update-charges-filed-in-death-of-vanessa-fotheringham/

Ah, I wasn't aware of that, thanks! I edited my post to remove my theory about her.

 

[Kamille]

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews now52 seconds ago
Laura #Babcock told docs she scratched herself and would "purge" weekly. Smoked marijuana daily. "Fear of death since age of four."

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews now8 seconds ago
Even as a young child #Babcock was worried about death and dying, which caused her extreme panic and anxiety.

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews now40 seconds ago
Laura #Babcock would smash her head or scratch herself when especially anxious, and that gave her relief. Didn't feel her parents understood

 

[Kamille]

Babcock also talked about using marijuana once a day and purging a few times a week.
by Shannon Martin 12:40 PM

Crown Jill Cameron continues to read the lengthy admission. It will be entered in full as an exhibit.

The common themes: Babcock frequently thought about death, though she's very afraid of death, she feels misunderstood, and feels no one loves her. She has a history of depression
by Shannon Martin 12:46 PM