Laura Babcock Murder Trial 12.07.17 - Charge to the Jury - Day 1

[J4LB]

Hello I just joined but been reading daily since the beginning. I'm wondering while I read this if DM knew he was going to kill LB anyway AND he needed some actual cash flow so he figured out a way to get her to bring the 4K along so he could do the deed and as a bonus also solve his cash shortage. 2 birds with 1 stone? Then he has "lots of loot" and a "little something" for CN ...maybe LB had some coke as well as money so he had a gift for CN as well. ?? This is just so wrong on so many different levels. What sick world we live in... oh and thank u for letting me join. These discussions are great...thsts all I ever do after work anymore 😀

 

[Tilly23]

But LB never sent a message out after 7:03. Why? If they were “running an errand” of some sort wouldn’t she have been texting like she constantly did?

I'm thinking maybe LB was not in the car, just her phone was.
I also think it is way too much of a coincidence that the phones are pinging off the towers near the conservation area where CN worked.

MOO

 

[Oreck]

The ping at Claireport came from LB’s phone at 7:31pm on July 3. Doesn’t that seem odd? DM’s phone pinged Steinway at the same time...

That might show they were in different parts of Toronto. Not guilty I ask you.
Please see my post on this line of thinking at post # 252 .

 

[matou]

I think her blackberry provider was Rogers so ping off Rogers tower? What about DM's phone?

 

[Georgeo]

I'm thinking maybe LB was not in the car, just her phone was.
I also think it is way too much of a coincidence that the phones are pinging off the towers near the conservation area where CN worked.

MOO

very interesting..... maybe he killed her there.... away from his house, and neighbors and house guests/tenants. Conservation area at night would be deserted, dark.....and no people or witnesses around. Day camp would be long gone.....

 

[J4LB]

Poor Pedo was jyst another "lookout" for DM ..a guard dog to alert him when someone was coming... he didn't live that dog ..he just used him like he used people. To serve him.

 

[ab-initio]

A tower covers a few square miles of a city>
If a tower covered a mile in each direction that's 7 square miles.How many houses are there in your 7 square mile block of your city?
Cell phones can not be tracked block by block but rather, two to five miles
And keep in mind a cell phone has a 20 mile range.

RSBM.
When you dial 911 from a cell phone, the dispatcher receives what is called an "uncertainty radius" of anywhere from a few to several hundreds of metres, identifying a certain cellular tower as the centrepoint.

Would the same data not be able to be extrapolated from these pings?

 

[CJPRINCESS]

That might show they were in different parts of Toronto. Not guilty I ask you.
Please see my post on this line of thinking at post # 252 .

Oh they are both Guilty!

From what I know about towers is, your phone will ping to your service providers tower first. So if LB was with Rogers, the Claireport May have been the closest tower. DM Let’s say Bell/Kudo (I don’t remember his provider) his would ping off Bell tower which could be further away.

When I’m up North, my Bell service is amazing! My husband has Rogers and has to connect to my data even with both providers around but Rogers further away/out of range.

I don’t know the area or how many miles/Kms apart Claireport is to Steinway?

JMO

 

[matou]

Oh they are both Guilty!

From what I know about towers is, your phone will ping to your service providers tower first. So if LB was with Rogers, the Claireport May have been the closest tower. DM Let’s say Bell/Kudo (I don’t remember his provider) his would ping off Bell tower which could be further away.

When I’m up North, my Bell service is amazing! My husband has Rogers and has to connect to my data even with both providers around but Rogers further away/out of range.

I don’t know the area or how many miles/Kms apart Claireport is to Steinway?

JMO

They are only around half a kilometer from each other.

 

[ab-initio]

Pressing rewind here and playing devils advocate, if the murder of TB had not happened at all, does the court of public opinion think that Millard and Smich may have gotten away with murdering LB? Thoughts?

Yes -- if LE's attention wasn't drawn to her in another way.

No -- based on them being fingered, and the evidence as presented in this trial.

 

[ab-initio]

...and CN sent DM that message, “Have fun doing big things ” at 10:20pm with seemingly no context whatsoever.

I think there is some context.
I'll try to look back and see it .. but an earlier text from DM to CN alluded that he couldn't see her because he had something going on (see:big things.)

 

[ab-initio]

I'm thinking maybe LB was not in the car, just her phone was.
I also think it is way too much of a coincidence that the phones are pinging off the towers near the conservation area where CN worked.

MOO

That time of day is hours after camp counselors are off duty, though.
I believe I remember reading this was a day camp, not overnight?

 

[Tealgrove]

very interesting..... maybe he killed her there.... away from his house, and neighbors and house guests/tenants. Conservation area at night would be deserted, dark.....and no people or witnesses around. Day camp would be long gone.....

Not dark at that time of the year. It would be light until 9:45 at least. And Claireville is a huge walking destination. The Humber Rivers flows through there and dog walkers are there morning, noon and night. I've walked my dogs there many times and it's always bustling with people especially in the summer.

 

[Tilly23]

<SNIP>

I don’t know the area or how many miles/Kms apart Claireport is to Steinway?

JMO

RSBM

Here's a map showing the location of Claireport, Steinway and Brandon Gate towers.



MOO

 

[J4LB]

Did DM take LB body and her phone then go show it to CN (near her work) and maybe had "intimite" time with CN ("turned on" by the murder) somewhere away from his vehicle while LB body and phone remained in vehicle ...and that's why the 2 different ping locations ?

 

[Just4TB]

WHAT THE JURY SAW: Tracking and mapping the cellphones https://youtu.be/tKcUv24D4vo

Thanks Alban.
This is interesting - to see the level of incriminating evidence detail that the jury has to work from.
From what I can see from initially viewing, this is a key piece of evidence, and likely to weigh heavily in the jury decision.

 

[MsRyber]

<respectfully snipped>
The drive path is like a big loop along the surrounding highways (e.g. 427 north to 407, west to 410, south to 401, then east back toward Maple Gate). It seems reminiscent of going on the Dodge truck test drives. It's not clear if DM stopped anywhere along the way, and it's odd that LB's phone is there but it never gets used. If LB was in the car with him, you might expect her to respond to a text or phone call. Maybe she was "busy", or incapacitated, or already murdered?

The only thing I don't follow with that is that the 407 is license plate recorded. Unless he had a transponder. Wouldn't there be a record of him travelling the 407? I feel they would have definitely been able to trace him better had he used the 407.

 

[Tilly23]

That time of day is hours after camp counselors are off duty, though.
I believe I remember reading this was a day camp, not overnight?

Was this the camp?:
https://www.toronto.ca/explore-enjoy/recreation/camps-after-school-care/outdoor-camps/claireville-day-camp/

If so, they do have some overnight camping. In the "Additional Information" section, it says:

An optional overnight is offered during the second week of each session for all campers except Challenge Plus campers (Campers who wish to participate must register by calling the registration line, online or by calling 416-394-8546).​

No idea how it might have been in 2012.

MOO

 

[Grey-St]

Pressing rewind here and playing devils advocate, if the murder of TB had not happened at all, does the court of public opinion think that Millard and Smich may have gotten away with murdering LB? Thoughts?

As Tealgrove stated earlier, which completely resonates with me, there are many valid reasons to believe that they would have gotten away with LB's murder (and likely that of WM's also). TPS was negligent, without a doubt. However, part of me believes in my heart, that LB's loved ones would have rallied hard for her. Eventually they would have gotten to a point, where they would fight for answers. Force LE's hand. Hire a PI. Go to the media. Get people to rally with them.

I guess I just have to hold on to the thought that justice would have eventually been served, regardless. It breaks my heart that TB's case had to exist for that to happen.

 

[mimimic]

Isn't that near the Claireville Conservation area where Noudga was working at?

Boy you guys never quit! lol as this ping talk started, it was just like in a movie that you think has ended, but this funky music starts to play and the main characters are at it again! good for you! I do not know T.O.