Lawrence Smith Replies - If you can say that

[rashomon]

I assume her concern for the condition in which JonBenet was found was of more importance.

You think that Patsy, after inflicting the genital wound, could not bring herself to 'display' JonBenet openly, not even in a staged scene?

jmo

 

[RiverRat]

RiverRat, my friend, she's in the hands of someone who can punish in ways we mortals cannot even imagine.

Poor Patsy.......it's not just Her Daughter's death she is paying the price for, the innocent people in Finger Pointing Ramsey Range that were also forever altered due to her have NOT forgiven her - Not Before, During or After her Death. My Flames could never equate to the ones she is receiving now.

And on that Note: Merry Christmas To All and To All - A Good Night......

 

[RiverRat]

Interesting point. It would make sense from the perspective of "freeing" JR and BR from the spectre of that horrible night.
After all this time - 11 years next week- and now PR dead- what a way out for JR. Just say: "You were right, my wife DID do it. And in a state of panic I helped to stage the accident to look like a murder. My wife was dying of cancer. What else could I do? I had to help her- I had to keep her around for the sake of our son. I was temporarily insane."

Make sense? JR comes clean and puts the blame on someone who can never be prosecuted. End of story, forever.

Let us pray.......

 

[Rino]

RiverRat, my friend, she's in the hands of someone who can punish in ways we mortals cannot even imagine.

After all this time - 11 years next week- and now PR dead- what a way out for JR. Just say: "You were right, my wife DID do it. And in a state of panic I helped to stage the accident to look like a murder. My wife was dying of cancer. What else could I do? I had to help her- I had to keep her around for the sake of our son. I was temporarily insane."

And even now, I could find it easy to forgive him.

But in helping stage the scene to look as it did, I beleive he inadvertantly murdered her. Patsy caused the blow to the head, but not her death, she was still alive when garroted. Therefore there can be no such declaration, imo.

Only Burke, maybe someday can come forward with the story of what he knows, but kids can be easily manipulatied

 

[DeeDee249]

But in helping stage the scene to look as it did, I beleive he inadvertantly murdered her. Patsy caused the blow to the head, but not her death, she was still alive when garroted. Therefore there can be no such declaration, imo.

Only Burke, maybe someday can come forward with the story of what he knows, but kids can be easily manipulatied

THAT will be some story, if it ever comes to pass. I can't see it happening while his father is alive, unless they have a major falling-out at some point. They only have each other (well, JR has Beth Holloway-Twitty)- with BR's mother, sister, and grandparents gone. He only has his dad for support (both financial and emotional).

 

[UKGuy]

But in helping stage the scene to look as it did, I beleive he inadvertantly murdered her. Patsy caused the blow to the head, but not her death, she was still alive when garroted. Therefore there can be no such declaration, imo.

Only Burke, maybe someday can come forward with the story of what he knows, but kids can be easily manipulatied

Rino,

I agree, Burke is the only person who can corroborate the alleged events that occurred the night JonBenet was killed.

I doubt he will say anything while his father is still alive, then anything he does say will be difficult to confirm.

I reckon the consensus now is that Patsy and John acting either independently or collectively killed JonBenet then staged her death in the wine-cellar along with a dramatic ranson-note. With the staging having purchased time, the Ramsey's plan was then to have flown out of Colorado state that morning to avoid arrest?


.

 

[rashomon]

A better explanation is that by the time John became aware it was too late. The deed had been done.

Albert, what you wrote gave me a lot of food for thought - the reason being that in all probability, not that much time was between the head blow and the strangulation. Dr. Wright for example estimated that 20 to 60 minutes elapsed between the skull fracture and the strangulation.

Imo it is possible that Patsy, after inflicting the head blow, was quickly overtaken by panic, and in a frantic effort to direct the attention away from her as the offender, staged the garrote scene in the wine cellar and wrote the ransom note.
Maybe John caught her in the act at some point, and it was now "too late" to change things. The deed had been done. The cord was already tied around the child's neck, therefore offering a made-up story to the hospital about her having fallen down the stairs was precluded.

Maybe then John, having himself a lot to lose if he turned Patsy in (not to mention the shock Burke would have gotten from that), decided to cover up for her, wanting to save what was left of the family.

jmo

 

[UKGuy]

Albert, what you wrote gave me a lot of food for thought - the reason being that in all probability, not that much time was between the head blow and the strangulation. Dr. Wright for example estimated that 20 to 60 minutes elapsed between the skull fracture and the strangulation.

Imo it is possible that Patsy, after inflicting the head blow, was quickly overtaken by panic, and in a frantic effort to direct the attention away from her as the offender, staged the garrote scene in the wine cellar and wrote the ransom note.
Maybe John caught her in the act at some point, and it was now "too late" to change things. The deed had been done. The cord was already tied around the child's neck, therefore offering a made-up story to the hospital about her having fallen down the stairs was precluded.

Maybe then John, having himself a lot to lose if he turned Patsy in (not to mention the shock Burke would have gotten from that), decided to cover up for her, wanting to save what was left of the family.

jmo

rashomon,
imo, the wine-cellar staging was not the first staging to take place. JonBenet was probably killed in a bedroom, and a staging of sorts enacted therein, but later on someone decided this was not helpful, and discounted dumping JonBenet's body outdoors then decided on the wine-cellar staging, with the ransom -note employed as a notification device, in the prior staging no ransom-note is required.

The garrote tied around JonBenet's neck is there to obscure the lower abrasions and offer an explanation for her death, no story for the hospital was required, a stranger abduction had already been arrived at, which was to be elaborated upon by Lou Smit.


.

 

[Ames]

Albert, what you wrote gave me a lot of food for thought - the reason being that in all probability, not that much time was between the head blow and the strangulation. Dr. Wright for example estimated that 20 to 60 minutes elapsed between the skull fracture and the strangulation.

Imo it is possible that Patsy, after inflicting the head blow, was quickly overtaken by panic, and in a frantic effort to direct the attention away from her as the offender, staged the garrote scene in the wine cellar and wrote the ransom note.
Maybe John caught her in the act at some point, and it was now "too late" to change things. The deed had been done. The cord was already tied around the child's neck, therefore offering a made-up story to the hospital about her having fallen down the stairs was precluded.

Maybe then John, having himself a lot to lose if he turned Patsy in (not to mention the shock Burke would have gotten from that), decided to cover up for her, wanting to save what was left of the family.

jmo

I beleve that John, at first...didn't want to cover for Patsy. I think that she turned on her tears and convinced him....probably using her cancer for him to feel sorry for her. "Please JOHN...you have GOT to help me!! It was an accident, I swear. If you turn me in, I will die of cancer in prison, and will not get to be there to help raise our son. So, PLEASEEEEE, if you care anything about me at all, you will do this for me."

 

[DeeDee249]

I can see PR pleading- and JR helping her- after all, he had his son BR to consider. No good would come of having his wife and family go through the ugliness of the publicity and trial (that wasn't likely, though, in liberal Boulder. An accidental death, even a brutal one like this, would certainly have been pled down somehow, and PR's illness used as a defense.)
The decision to turn an accidental death into a staged kidnapping/murder, with the murder being made to be seen as "retaliation" for "disobeying" the RN (by calling in LE and friends) was done to avoid having to deal with the obvious horrific ramifications of PR beiing responsible for the death of her daughter.
People like the Rs have always been able to buy their way out of taking responsibility for serious mistakes...whether it is through high-priced lawyering or blame shifting. Whether it is getting out of a traffic ticket, getting your teenager off a drunk -driving charge, or getting away with murder. This stuff goes on all the time, in every affluent community.

 

[rashomon]

I beleve that John, at first...didn't want to cover for Patsy. I think that she turned on her tears and convinced him....probably using her cancer for him to feel sorry for her. "Please JOHN...you have GOT to help me!! It was an accident, I swear. If you turn me in, I will die of cancer in prison, and will not get to be there to help raise our son. So, PLEASEEEEE, if you care anything about me at all, you will do this for me."

You put that in words so well, Ames. I can visualize it happening like that. I think Patsy was literally down on her knees, begging John to help her. And as always, she got what she wanted from him. Even this time.

jmo

 

[Rino]

I beleve that John, at first...didn't want to cover for Patsy. I think that she turned on her tears and convinced him....probably using her cancer for him to feel sorry for her. "Please JOHN...you have GOT to help me!! It was an accident, I swear. If you turn me in, I will die of cancer in prison, and will not get to be there to help raise our son. So, PLEASEEEEE, if you care anything about me at all, you will do this for me."

I always believed since John thought Jonbennet was dead, he simply did what he had to do to keep the remaining family and lifestyle in tact.

I know I am in the majority thinking he actually killed her, but I do think it was in the effort to maintain what he had built up over the years. It never once occured to me that Pasty going to prison would be a major problem in itself to him, but having to stand by a murderer was not in his makeup and neither was admitting his life was not perfect to the world-jmo

 

[Albert18]

John had little to gain in helping Patsy in that manner and much to lose.

If his money and status came through her I can see this line of thinking but that wasn't the case.

 

[Ames]

You put that in words so well, Ames. I can visualize it happening like that. I think Patsy was literally down on her knees, begging John to help her. And as always, she got what she wanted from him. Even this time.

jmo

What was it about Patsy anyway...that made men come running to her rescue everytime she "dropped her hanky"? I don't get MY way everytime I turn on the tears...and if I had of accidently killed our daughter...I don't care how much pleading, begging and crying I did...my husband after having some sort of fit, would have rolled his eyes and said..."don't give me that cr@p" and then dragged me to the police station by my ear.

 

[coloradokares]

What was it about Patsy anyway...that made men come running to her rescue everytime she "dropped her hanky"? I don't get MY way everytime I turn on the tears...and if I had of accidently killed our daughter...I don't care how much pleading, begging and crying I did...my husband after having some sort of fit, would have rolled his eyes and said..."don't give me that cr@p" and then dragged me to the police station by my ear.

Mine would have wrung my neck before I could have exlained anything!!

 

[Ames]

Mine would have wrung my neck before I could have exlained anything!!

Yeah, mine to!! There would have been no way in heck that he would have helped me...that is for sure. Only Patsy...can cry and make people believe what she wants them to believe....and get her way every single time. Why was that? She was nothing special...imo

 

[Rino]

John had little to gain in helping Patsy in that manner and much to lose.

If his money and status came through her I can see this line of thinking but that wasn't the case.

But he did help her.

Like the others my husband would not have been so generous. I would be rotting in jail, if he let me live....

 

[Ames]

But he did help her.

Like the others my husband would not have been so generous. I would be rotting in jail, if he let me live....

The same could be said if the shoe was on the other foot too...if my husband had of accidently killed our child...he would either be rotting away in prison...or dead, one of the two, there would be NO WAY that I would help him...accident or not.

 

[RiverRat]

But he did help her.

Like the others my husband would not have been so generous. I would be rotting in jail, if he let me live....

Helping her helped that pesky prior sexual abuse evidence pushed down to the bottom of the barrel! I doubt that John does anything out just out of the goodness of his heart...:snooty:

 

[Albert18]

But he did help her.

Yes, he made some phone calls.