LE Serves Warrant on Family Home #6

[sarx]

Thanks everyone. I'm here to answer questions and happy to do so!

I will re-post it again, please feel free to copy this post and re-post it as new people come in, cuz I feel like I've said it a lot today.

Again, take it or leave it. I am verified, it by no means makes me perfect, but I've got a lot of years of knowledge, and it's not just from a study I found (sorry, getting a little snarky)

Here goes...

The dogs that came in are highly trained, highly certified and highly reliable.

The dogs were not hitting on something leftover by a previous owner. Their hits were in direct connection with something that happened recently.

The dogs were not hitting on biological matter from a living person or creature (including but not limited to urine, feces, spit, menstrual bleeding, blood from a cut, breast milk, pig roast matter etc)

How many dogs were used? We don't know. Just because we only heard about 1 means just that, it's all we heard about.

I think that about covers it.

 

[mysteriew]

Theory only

I've been thinking of the items they took from the home and puzzling over why they took them.

Cadaver dog hit on floor beside DB's bed.

What if CSI's vaccumed fibers off that area of the rug and wanted comparison samples of items used by Lisa to compare? A predominence of fibers connected to items used by Lisa would be a good indication that it was her remains that laid there at some point. Wouldn't that work?

 

[wildchild1961]

That's what I'm thinking! Right along with a couple of cups lol..

OK.. i am trying to get to the end of this thread before I post.. but I am too impatient I guess. LOLOL.. so here goes and forgive me if someone mentioned this further in.

I can buy that DB and the neighbor both sat on the porch and didnt go in.. I can buy that the other three kids were perfect angels and never needed parent intervention inside the house while DB and neighbor were drinking.. I can buy the wine and glasses were on the porch while they were drinking. But out of all of us humans here.. who have had a drink.. never ONCE would go int he house during 4 hours of drinking.. to PEE?????????

THEY PEED.. and they didnt pee outside.. THAT is what MY common sense tells me.. lololol

just using your post as a jumping off point Not directing anything at you personally

wild

 

[jjenny]

I think they could try to extract DNA from the spot where the dog hit. That's why the probably removed that carpet from the home.

 

[carole]

Theory only

I've been thinking of the items they took from the home and puzzling over why they took them.

Cadaver dog hit on floor beside DB's bed.

What if CSI's vaccumed fibers off that area of the rug and wanted comparison samples of items used by Lisa to compare? A predominence of fibers connected to items used by Lisa would be a good indication that it was her remains that laid there at some point. Wouldn't that work?

BBM

I think the rug/carpet that was taken from the house on Wed. was from the parents bedroom. Evidence of recent decomposition in the house.

MOO

 

[mysteriew]

BBM

I think the rug/carpet that was taken from the house on Wed. was from the parents bedroom. Evidence of recent decomposition in the house.

MOO

It didn't show up on the evidence list as if it was taken from the home. LOL, they may have cut a swatch out of it though!

 

[yllek]

Why are we just now hearing about fresh, unearthed ground on the Irwin property? It's very odd to me.. I mean right outta the shoot 911 called, LE swarms the home, the property, the neighborhood, the area.. Right then at how many ever minutes after 4:04am when the 911 call was dispatched multiple officers and patrol cars are immediately on the scene.. Right then and there officers searching the perimeter of this home, including the entire backyard and camper.. Right then, before even 4:30am, in those PRE-dawn last hours THIS DETAIL WOULD HAVE BEEN KNOWN WITHOUT A DOUBT And WITH ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY!!!! FRESH, UNEARTHED DIRT, SOIL RECENTLY HAVING BEEN DUG UP, REPLACED, AND PATTED DOWN, etc, etc.. These are without a doubt details that could not be hidden, concealed or easily covered up!!! Extremely easily recognizable even in the PRE dawn dark of night these officers without a doubt would have known and found any area an inch or more in size that had been recently disturbed, dug up, replaced, etc.. With the lights on the back of the home or even with a handheld flashlight this is an extremely easy find!!! Again right off the bat!!!

If by chance they weren't as thorough as I'd expect them to be in those last couple of PRE dawn hours then surely upon sunrise of that Oct. 4th morning this "fresh, unearthed, newly disturbed ground" would have been IMMEDIATELY SEIZED UPON RIGHT AWAY BEFORE 8am?!?!?

This the most easiest and immediate find!! Why then for weeks did we watch that property from every angle, including aerial view as LE searched other neighbors and other homes all the while right there in the very back yard there was unearthed ground?? Where was it all along?? Wouldn't we have images of it from the non stop views we've all seen since October 4th?? Wouldn't it have been there all along, therefor has to have been caught by the 24/7 media saturated coverage of this area??

Just my opinion: LE was operating on the assumption that sweet Lisa was abducted. That's what mom said, that's what dad was led to believe when he arrived home. Babies abducted from cribs is very rare. LE was focused on an abducted little Lisa. They issued the rare Amber Alert.

Surely, imo, LE was also in paralell looking at the possibilty of an inside job. They know statiscally that a custodial issue or family perp is most likely. I think KCPD has been excellent in this case. Just my opinon. Dug up dirt in a nicely kept home could mean planting for the seasons, or other innocent explanations. Still, I agree that they would have honed in on this pronto when sweet baby was reported missing. I bet they did. On preliminary inspection, no baby found. Why make it public?

I just don't happen to believe the KCDP and FBI were out to pin anything on unsuspecting parents straight off. JMO. I think LE invesigated, interrogated, and checked out other angles. Everything, imo, keeps leading them back to the house. Today we learned that at least one HRD dog hit in the parents' bedroom. That's important, imo. LE tried to keep that info from being released, but could not due to Sunshine Laws.

If KCPD or the the FBI were looking to prematurely pin the parents, I believe they would have released the "dug up dirt" earlier. They did not release it because it might have been irrelevant and they were not out to pin the parents. Similarly, I believe they did not "leak" the result of Debbi's poly to the media because LE was sincerely considering an abduction. Instead, Debbi did it herself, just like she revealed that she was allegedly drunk as a skunk.

JMO, LE hasn't released anything incriminating against Debbi, other than the fact that she and Jeremy stopped cooperating. Debbi has released incriminating info about her own self in attempt to get in front of what she knows has been discovered and feared would be released to the public. LE hasn't and shouldn't tell us what evidence they have to justify a warrant or any grand jury subpoenas.

I say keep up the good work KCPD - let's find out what happened to little Lisa Irwin.

I also say, howdy to Smooth Operator, who always has good insights and is a champion for victims. I may not be on the same page with you yet on this case, but always admire you as a steafast advocate for victims and a hero of mine !!!:cheer:

 

[dovebar]

Okay, I'll be the skeptic again. According to the news, the police worked this search, with dogs, for 17 hours.

I'm sorry, but after 17 hours, a dog would be desperate to pick up on what it's handler wanted. False "hits" are not only common, but claims that a dog has "never" had a false hit are apparently quite suspect in the trade. You can easily search a number of reputable websites and come up with dog handlers themselves saying that we should be skeptical of this.

Here's an example of multiple cases where this kind of "evidence" was wrong:
http://www.scentevidence.com/2009/09/scent-lineups-may-be-failing-smell-test.html

The defense is going to have a field day with the way LE is handling this.

 

[jjenny]

Okay, I'll be the skeptic again. According to the news, the police worked this search, with dogs, for 17 hours.

I'm sorry, but after 17 hours, a dog would be desperate to pick up on what it's handler wanted. False "hits" are not only common, but claims that a dog has "never" had a false hit are apparently quite suspect in the trade. You can easily search a number of reputable websites and come up with dog handlers themselves saying that we should be skeptical of this.

Here's an example of multiple cases where this kind of "evidence" was wrong:
http://www.scentevidence.com/2009/09/scent-lineups-may-be-failing-smell-test.html

The defense is going to have a field day with the way LE is handling this.

I have not seen anything to suggest the dog was there for 17 hours before making a hit. I think you are confusing it with a search that was carried out several days later.

 

[Slynderella]

I'm sorry, but after 17 hours, a dog would be desperate to pick up on what it's handler wanted. False "hits" are not only common, but claims that a dog has "never" had a false hit are apparently quite suspect in the trade. You can easily search a number of reputable websites and come up with dog handlers themselves saying that we should be skeptical of this.

No sweetheart the dog "hit" on Monday then they went and searched for 17hrs... no offense just thought you'd want to know - the dog Hit then they searched the whole house inch by inch....

 

[sarx]

Okay, I'll be the skeptic again. According to the news, the police worked this search, with dogs, for 17 hours.

I'm sorry, but after 17 hours, a dog would be desperate to pick up on what it's handler wanted. False "hits" are not only common, but claims that a dog has "never" had a false hit are apparently quite suspect in the trade. You can easily search a number of reputable websites and come up with dog handlers themselves saying that we should be skeptical of this.

Here's an example of multiple cases where this kind of "evidence" was wrong:
http://www.scentevidence.com/2009/09/scent-lineups-may-be-failing-smell-test.html

The defense is going to have a field day with the way LE is handling this.

Which news reported that the dogs worked for 17hrs? I think there is a bit of confusion going on here. If that's printed somewhere then that's just bad journalism. The 17hrs is in reference to the search warrant day, which is a different day all together from the day the dog was there that is connected to this topic.

 

[carole]

It didn't show up on the evidence list as if it was taken from the home. LOL, they may have cut a swatch out of it though!

Today LE filed a States' Motion to Seal Court Records and only a few items removed were listed. This is to keep evidence from becoming public record.

There were many, many bags of evidence removed from the house on Wednesday, and many, many, many x-rays of the inside of the house were taken into evidence.

Also, cadaver dogs were there on Wed. and that is not listed.

LE is keeping all this close to their vest in order to make the best case against whoever "disappeared" baby Lisa.

 

[indepmo]

There's never enough dog treats for a 17 hour dog day!

 

[Turnadot]

There's never enough dog treats for a 17 hour dog day!

God bless those dogs and handlers!

IMO

 

[MyBelle]

Okay, I'll be the skeptic again. According to the news, the police worked this search, with dogs, for 17 hours.

I'm sorry, but after 17 hours, a dog would be desperate to pick up on what it's handler wanted. False "hits" are not only common, but claims that a dog has "never" had a false hit are apparently quite suspect in the trade. You can easily search a number of reputable websites and come up with dog handlers themselves saying that we should be skeptical of this.

Here's an example of multiple cases where this kind of "evidence" was wrong:
http://www.scentevidence.com/2009/09/scent-lineups-may-be-failing-smell-test.html

The defense is going to have a field day with the way LE is handling this.

As far as I know, LE didn't work just one shift for 17 hours straight nor did any of their dogs.

JMO

 

[KathrynL]

I have not seen anything to suggest the dog was there for 17 hours before making a hit. I think you are confusing it with a search that was carried out several days later.

I think that is correct. The dog hit on 10/17, in a consent search. I don't recall mention of them bringing in any dogs in the 16/17 hour search when they executed the warrant. I do seem to remember they may have used dogs when they were searching the wooded area the day before they searched the house.

 

[carole]

Which news reported that the dogs worked for 17hrs? I think there is a bit of confusion going on here. If that's printed somewhere then that's just bad journalism. The 17hrs is in reference to the search warrant day, which is a different day all together from the day the dog was there that is connected to this topic.

Exactly. CSI were there for 17 hours. Media reported that they had to turn off their cameras (live cams were there, we we all watching) - requested by LE because they were bringing in dogs and they did not want cameras to show/record these searchs.

 

[AngelWings444]

I agree with everything you said here, especially the BBM.

At first I had this knee-jerk reaction to any member of LE interviewing my kids more than once (if I were the parent in this case), but after thinking on this more, the hard cold reality is that kids see and hear a heck of a lot more than a lot of adults give them credit for, and it would be pretty crappy of me to allow my one bad experience with LE taint all of LE. Plus there's a helpless infant's life at risk.

I would want my kids to have an advocate of course, but thinking more reasonably, there's no valid reason to keep LE from having someone trained to do so, question the kids more than once.

IMO

Absolutely! The Elizabeth Smart case comes to mind. You never know,unless you shut down the questioning to the children.

 

[carole]

As far as I know, LE didn't work just one shift for 17 hours straight nor did any of their dogs.

JMO

Yes. The were there for 17 hours. But the dogs weren't.

 

[jjenny]

Absolutely! The Elizabeth Smart case comes to mind. You never know,unless you shut down the questioning to the children.

Exactly. I don't recall Ed Smart claiming it would be too traumatic for MK to be re-interviewed by police.