Legal Q&A Thread for R Hornsby

[Blaise]

This brings me to the only Computer Forensic Report I have seen, which was authored by OCSO Computer Forensic Examiner Sandra G. Caw - she examined Casey's laptop, but does not mention the results Meilich referenced.

So here is where I could use your assistance to answer your question, please provide me a link to the firsthand Computer Forensic Report that identifies the alleged information.

I have not seen such a firsthand report (I have only seen Melich's), but I am sure I am wrong considering how much the neck breaking and chloroform searches are referred to.

I know that the state spent a lot of time questioning Cindy Anthony about those searches during her deposition. That's where we heard the story of 'I was searching for chlorophyll 'cause my dogs were sick and I might have searched for chloroform instead!".

Would the state take their time to ask those questions if they didn't have a specific piece of paper documenting those searches?

Blaise

 

[Dear Prudence]

Excellent question and I am unable to answer it based on the evidence released so far, here is why.

The report that references these claims was made by Det. Yuri Melich in the 11/26/08 document dump. He obviously is relating information from someone else. And while hearsay is allowed in a police report, the originator of the hearsay must testify in court to their findings, methodology, and credentials.

This brings me to the only Computer Forensic Report I have seen, which was authored by OCSO Computer Forensic Examiner Sandra G. Caw - she examined Casey's laptop, but does not mention the results Meilich referenced.

So here is where I could use your assistance to answer your question, please provide me a link to the firsthand Computer Forensic Report that identifies the alleged information.

I have not seen such a firsthand report (I have only seen Melich's), but I am sure I am wrong considering how much the neck breaking and chloroform searches are referred to.

This might be what you're looking for on photo #32 at this link:
http://www.wesh.com/slideshow/news/19104541/detail.html

 

[rhornsby]

While 20/20 hindsight makes it easier to think could have/should have, when the detectives investigated Caylee's disappearance, it seems like the Anthony family was acting like they were wanting to help find Caylee, but at the same time believing the lies that KC had been telling. I would guess that defense attorneys don't get along well with detectives and law enforcement as a general rule. Would that be correct? Do you have any friends in law enforcement?

Actually I disagree, I think older detectives tend to be the best and most truthful cops there are. Because they don't let their emotion or ego get in the way of their findings.

So when you ask a question, they say what they found and nothing else. I think jurors respect them more to, because they look less like they are trying to preserve their "win" than get to the truth.

 

[Blaise]

For that storyline would not support the charge that Casey murdered Caylee with planning and deliberation (murder one). Rather, that storyline would clearly argue against Casey committing a planned murder, and I think most any juror would have a hard time looking past this truth.

Wudge -- what's the difference between planning and deliberation and premeditation? From my vast legal knowledge, mostly acquired by watchin' CourtTV, I thought that 'premeditation' could be a matter of minutes, even seconds. Could the amount of time that it took to apply the duct tape be considered premeditation, *IF* the state can make the case that she died because of affixation due to the tape? I mean, she would have had time to remove the tape and undo the deed.

Blaise

 

[rhornsby]

This might be what you're looking for on photo #32 at this link:
http://www.wesh.com/slideshow/news/19104541/detail.html

I appreciate that very much, now the big question is where is the corresponding Computer Forensic Report?

 

[rhornsby]

I know that the state spent a lot of time questioning Cindy Anthony about those searches during her deposition. That's where we heard the story of 'I was searching for chlorophyll 'cause my dogs were sick and I might have searched for chloroform instead!".

Would the state take their time to ask those questions if they didn't have a specific piece of paper documenting those searches?

Blaise

Previous poster pointed out the document, now where is the corresponding computer forensic report.

 

[Blaise]

Previous poster pointed out the document, now where is the corresponding computer forensic report.

I do not know BUT I DO NOT HAVE IT. <sob>

I am sorry, I thought you had me on the witness stand.

Blaise

 

[Wudge]

SNIP

So don't kid yourself about these detectives, they say whatever will get their suspect convicted. And I don't know any detective worth his weight who would start participating in online discussions about an active case.

Not sure if I made my point, but hope I did.

p.s. This does not mean I think Casey is innocent, just that the assigned detectives are not all you think they are.

I appreciate the local color and insight. I decided not to ask you what you thought about Orlando's PD or its detectives, because I did not want to potentially cause you to burn any bridges. (chuckle)

The good news is: your integrity is certainly alive and well.

Now, about prosecutors in Orlando who have been known to withhold exculpatory and/or exonerating evidence from the defense ... ah, forget it. (smile)

 

[rhornsby]

... 20/20 hindsight makes it easier to think could have/should have...
(snipped to make a point)

And that is what I do for a living; so it should be no surprise for these detectives when some yahoo criminal defense lawyer comes second guessing their work.

I mean, they're the one with the title Detective, not little old moi... :innocent:

 

[Wudge]

Wudge -- what's the difference between planning and deliberation and premeditation? From my vast legal knowledge, mostly acquired by watchin' CourtTV, I thought that 'premeditation' could be a matter of minutes, even seconds. Could the amount of time that it took to apply the duct tape be considered premeditation, *IF* the state can make the case that she died because of affixation due to the tape? I mean, she would have had time to remove the tape and undo the deed.

Blaise

In most states, they are one and the same. Florida substitutes 'reflection' for deliberation.

 

[ecs5298]

<respectfully snipped>

So don't kid yourself about these detectives, they say whatever will get their suspect convicted. And I don't know any detective worth his weight who would start participating in online discussions about an active case.

BBM:

This is the extent of Det. Melich's "online discussion" . You'll notice that in all 30 of his posts here on WS that the case is never discussed.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71041"]Detective Yuri Melich Support Thread - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

Hope that clears up this "urban legend" for you.

 

[rhornsby]

I appreciate the local color and insight. I decided not to ask you what you thought about Orlando's PD or its detectives, because I did not want to potentially cause you to burn any bridges. (chuckle)

The good news is: your integrity is certainly alive and well.

Now, about prosecutors in Orlando who have been known to withhold exculpatory and/or exonerating evidence from the defense ... ah, forget it. (smile)

Ahh, you refer to the infamous Huggins cases and Mr. Ashton. Well I will be discussing that in my check fraud blog post. The holding in Huggins II actually is important to this case.

But if you must know, I always thought that if I was a prosecutor, I would be a lot like Jeff. He gets nothing but thumbs up from me; hie is no nonsense and knows the law.

As a matter of fact, I had a possession of a firearm by a convicted felon case with Jeff. After we picked the jury Jeff found out the gun magically disappeared from Eatonville PD evidence. Rather than offer me some sweetheart deal and leave it to me to figure out what happened, he not only dropped the case but asked to be able to to explain to the jury what happened.

I have also worked with Frank George on a ton of cases. His integrity is beyond reproach. He knows the law and is always prepared.

I cannot comment of Ms. Drane Burdick because I have never even had a case with her (that I remember).

 

[jandkmom]

And that is what I do for a living; so it should be no surprise for these detectives when some yahoo criminal defense lawyer comes second guessing their work.

I mean, they're the one with the title Detective, not little old moi... :innocent:

True. I would think that they are at a disadvantage of trying to figure out who is lying and who is telling the truth while you would assume that your client is telling the truth. Being a defense attorney don't you like the back and forth that you probably get with the younger detectives since you say the older ones answer short and to the point?

If you got to cross-examine anyone in this case (except for KC, since she may not testify) who would you pick and why? Would you go for the person that would seem the easiest to trip up, or would you like the challenge?

I have a feeling that you have done a little detective work for your cases. :angel:

 

[rhornsby]

BBM:

This is the extent of Det. Melich's "online discussion" . You'll notice that in all 30 of his posts here on WS that the case is never discussed.

Detective Yuri Melich Support Thread - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Hope that clears up this "urban legend" for you.

Doesn't mater, he should not have been on here at all. Trust me, it will come up in cross-examination in trial. twinkle twinkle little star...

 

[JWG]

Excellent question and I am unable to answer it based on the evidence released so far, here is why.

The report that references these claims was made by Det. Yuri Melich in the 11/26/08 document dump. He obviously is relating information from someone else. And while hearsay is allowed in a police report, the originator of the hearsay must testify in court to their findings, methodology, and credentials.

This brings me to the only Computer Forensic Report I have seen, which was authored by OCSO Computer Forensic Examiner Sandra G. Caw - she examined Casey's laptop, but does not mention the results Meilich referenced.

So here is where I could use your assistance to answer your question, please provide me a link to the firsthand Computer Forensic Report that identifies the alleged information.

I have not seen such a firsthand report (I have only seen Melich's), but I am sure I am wrong considering how much the neck breaking and chloroform searches are referred to.

It's possible that the report was turned over to the defense some time ago but that the media either did not bother to upload it or did not bother to acquire it. One Websleuth's member who lives in Orlando has obtained most - but not all - of the documents released via the Sunshine law and several times he has posted material that was not available on the media websites.

The Google searches referenced by Det. Melich were released this spring in the form of a spreadsheet that was dumped by the Encase tool law enforcement uses to perform forensic analysis on computers. I have not seen an official report, however.

As an FYI, a copy of the hard drives was provided to the defense in January. The property and FedEx slips were part of an earlier document release.

 

[rhornsby]

True. I would think that they are at a disadvantage of trying to figure out who is lying and who is telling the truth while you would assume that your client is telling the truth. Being a defense attorney don't you like the back and forth that you probably get with the younger detectives since you say the older ones answer short and to the point?

If you got to cross-examine anyone in this case (except for KC, since she may not testify) who would you pick and why? Would you go for the person that would seem the easiest to trip up, or would you like the challenge?

I have a feeling that you have done a little detective work for your cases. :angel:

Well, if you listened to the BlogTalkRadio piece, I ate Koblinsky's lunch....

But other than him, I would make Kronk look like a chump - even if the ex-wife's claim doesn't come in.

For the State, I think Melich will be easy pickings.

 

[Blaise]

Doesn't mater, he should not have been on here at all. Trust me, it will come up in cross-examination in trial. twinkle twinkle little star...

Question -- If Melich simply sez, "That was a mistake in judgement. I was censored for it and I learned from it", would the issue be defused? Same with the car -- if he sez, "Yes, we should have taken the car that night," would these issues become non-issues?

Blaise

 

[Wudge]

Wudge -- what's the difference between planning and deliberation and premeditation? From my vast legal knowledge, mostly acquired by watchin' CourtTV, I thought that 'premeditation' could be a matter of minutes, even seconds. Could the amount of time that it took to apply the duct tape be considered premeditation, *IF* the state can make the case that she died because of affixation due to the tape? I mean, she would have had time to remove the tape and undo the deed.

Blaise

The definition of premeditation is somewhat ambiguous and can easily be misleading. The legal definition of premeditation in most states is with planning or deliberation (reflection, consideration). However, the amount of time needed for premeditation, regarding any act, depends on the person and the circumstances. After forming intent, the time must be long enough to act, and it must also allow for the person to have been fully conscious of the intent and to have considered the act.

As far as I know, you must have planning to have premeditation. I might add that the same is true of self defense where you must prove you were acting in fear of your life, and that was the reason why you killed another person. If all that existed was the thought that: "I must kill this person or they will kill me", then that is not proof of self defense.

In this case that lacks: an eyewitness, a confession, a place of death, a time of death a cause of death as well as not knowing the circumstances surrounding the death, then unless the words came from the Casey's mouth, I can't see how premeditation can realistically be proved to have existed for an instant or otherwise.

Additionally, the words planning and reflection indicates that this is not an 'instant' process. Although many definitions state that it depends on the circumstances and the person and indicates that it could be 'instantaneous', those two words indicate that it can not be so.

Still, the key thing is to prove it in court, and that means the SAs must prove planning and refection (deliberation, consideration).

 

[rhornsby]

It's possible that the report was turned over to the defense some time ago but that the media either did not bother to upload it or did not bother to acquire it. One Websleuth's member who lives in Orlando has obtained most - but not all - of the documents released via the Sunshine law and several times he has posted material that was not available on the media websites.

The Google searches referenced by Det. Melich were released this spring in the form of a spreadsheet that was dumped by the Encase tool law enforcement uses to perform forensic analysis on computers. I have not seen an official report, however.

As an FYI, a copy of the hard drives was provided to the defense in January. The property and FedEx slips were part of an earlier document release.

That could be it. Also, for you enterprising sleuths. You could make a public records request of the hard drives and offer to provide new drives for duplication.

 

[rhornsby]

Question -- If Melich simply sez, "That was a mistake in judgement. I was censored for it and I learned from it", would the issue be defused? Same with the car -- if he sez, "Yes, we should have taken the car that night," would these issues become non-issues?

Blaise

The problem is not what he said, it is what his intentions are interpreted as. Why is the DETECTIVE suddenly reviewing Websleuths in the middle of the most scrutinized criminal investigations in modern history?

Did he want to impress his "fan base?" If so, what was the attitude of that fan base: Pro-Casey Anthony or Anti-Casey Anthony?

What all did he read, what influenced the leads he followed, what are his motives, etc.

I mean, Mark Fuhrman sure has a nice cozy gig with Fox News right now....

Trust me, I would eat his liver with the fact he was on here.