Legal Questions for Our VERIFIED Lawyers #1

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  • #1,541
At the end of the hearing, HHJP started talking to CM about Jury selection; I couldn't hear it all but he did mention making hotel reservations under assumed names.
If they go off to another location to select a Jury, what will the members of that Jury be told upfront as to their being taken to Orlando etc- will they know after selection which case they will decide, or just find out when they are in the Court room? - how does that work? I can't imagine Floridians not knowing quite a bit about this case already...
 
  • #1,542
The defense has filed a motion to keep both KC's and CA's MySpace entries out of the trial. Since they represent only KC, what standing do they have to ask that something of CA's be omitted? I am confused as to what right they have to file this request. It seems like they are reaching into an area that they have no right to with this one.
 
  • #1,543
I don't understand why an attorney would stand before the court and publicly announce issues with bloggers when they have nothing to do with the case. People from far off states and other countries give their opinions on what has been presented through discovery. If you don't want locals to visit these sites why even mention them in open court. CM sounded as if he was taking some of the comments personally. Is that inappropriate for him to be bringing up comments about himself in court?
 
  • #1,544
I always thought that Casey's text to Tony on July 16 at 7:01 a.m. was a fib.
“I was put in handcuffs for almost 10 minutes and sat in the back of a cop car. The best thing and the most important person in my life is mi”
Today, if I understood him correctly, Cheney Mason said that Casey was handcuffed while being driven around.

Considering what is known about Casey's LE interview at Universal, will the latest defense motion to get that interview thrown out be successful?

I think Casey was likely telling the truth about 10 minutes in handcuffs. By 7 am on the 16th, the officers were suspicious enough of her that they would not have wanted to risk her running off, and they might also have wanted to scare her with the seriousness of the situation in hopes of getting her to talk. The Universal trip was after the text to Tony, so we don't have any information directly from Casey about whether she was handcuffed for that trip. I suspect she was not handcuffed for the actual Universal interview, but that's just based on the tone of the interview.

Here's what I said about the Universal interview last March when someone asked this question:

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It is definitely possible to get a "voluntary" confession thrown out. The question will be whether she was "in custody" at that time--if so, they needed to give her the Miranda warning (and her statements will be no good without it) even if she really, truly, voluntarily wanted to talk to them. Whether she was "in custody" will depend on the facts, especially whether she would have reasonably felt free to leave. My gut feeling is that the questioning that took place at the home was probably OK, but the questioning that took place at Universal worries me a little.

It's possible that the officers considered the risk that anything Casey said would be thrown out as evidence if they did not give a Miranda warning, but decided the risk was worth it in order to try to get her to "crack" and tell where Caylee was (alive or dead). After all, if she had confessed and led them to the body at that time, they could have used the information from her confession to direct their investigation--e.g., to know what kind of forensic evidence to look for--even if they couldn't use the confession itself.
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If she was in handcuffs during the ride to Universal, that would only strengthen her impression that she was "in custody" and not free to leave. I mean, what are the chances that the cops are really going to let you leave if they drove you somewhere in handcuffs--even if they say you're free to leave? And, of course, she was arrested immediately after the Universal interview, so, in reality, she was not free to leave. And didn't Yuri tell George before they left for Universal that he should be prepared that Casey might not be coming back to the house? All in all, I think the Universal statement should be suppressed. And now I feel like I just wrote another defense brief. Maybe JB will share his $3/hr with me. ;)

But on the bright side, all the major lies from the Universal interview are in Casey's other statements as well...her statements to the 911 operator, her handwritten statement, and her statement to Yuri at the house. Not to mention her statements to her family and friends. This girl is a talker. :)

At the end of the hearing, HHJP started talking to CM about Jury selection; I couldn't hear it all but he did mention making hotel reservations under assumed names.
If they go off to another location to select a Jury, what will the members of that Jury be told upfront as to their being taken to Orlando etc- will they know after selection which case they will decide, or just find out when they are in the Court room? - how does that work? I can't imagine Floridians not knowing quite a bit about this case already...

By the time the jury is selected, they will certainly know what case they were selected for, because they will have been asked all sorts of questions about what they've heard in the media, whether they have "blogged" about the case lol, etc.

The defense has filed a motion to keep both KC's and CA's MySpace entries out of the trial. Since they represent only KC, what standing do they have to ask that something of CA's be omitted? I am confused as to what right they have to file this request. It seems like they are reaching into an area that they have no right to with this one.

Cindy's MySpace post is not just "something of Cindy's"--it's evidence being submitted against Casey by the State of Florida. Casey's attorneys have the right to challenge any evidence being submitted against her, regardless of where the evidence originally came from.

I don't understand why an attorney would stand before the court and publicly announce issues with bloggers when they have nothing to do with the case. People from far off states and other countries give their opinions on what has been presented through discovery. If you don't want locals to visit these sites why even mention them in open court. CM sounded as if he was taking some of the comments personally. Is that inappropriate for him to be bringing up comments about himself in court?

This is all part of JB and CM's big appeal strategy: "our client was railroaded by the media, so a fair trial was impossible." JB and CM think that the only reason we "bloggers" (lol) think they are [unusual persons] [pre-edited to save work for mods] is that the media have brainwashed us. :rolleyes:
 
  • #1,545
I was baffled to see Cheney Mason get so upset about sanctions yesterday when he has done nothing but be disrespectful to the court and pull shenanigans time and again along with Baez. He constantly acts like he can't hear, his mumbling is almost unintelligible, and he hasn't done much at all to advance this case or really fight for Casey. How can he do all of this and NOT expect a sanction against him? I don't understand the disconnect he has between his behavior and the consequences for it. Shouldn't an experienced lawyer know what will be tolerated in court and act accordingly as to not get sanctions against him or her? I don't get how he thinks he's going to survive this trial without a sanction, yet continues to act like anything but a good defense lawyer.
 
  • #1,546
I was baffled to see Cheney Mason get so upset about sanctions yesterday when he has done nothing but be disrespectful to the court and pull shenanigans time and again along with Baez. He constantly acts like he can't hear, his mumbling is almost unintelligible, and he hasn't done much at all to advance this case or really fight for Casey. How can he do all of this and NOT expect a sanction against him? I don't understand the disconnect he has between his behavior and the consequences for it. Shouldn't an experienced lawyer know what will be tolerated in court and act accordingly as to not get sanctions against him or her? I don't get how he thinks he's going to survive this trial without a sanction, yet continues to act like anything but a good defense lawyer.

IMO Cheney "Perry" Mason actually, in his heart of hearts, believes (incorrectly) that he is an amazing and effective attorney. He further believes (incorrectly) that he is of equal stature to Judge Perry and therefore is free to talk to him in a manner that would be disrespectful coming from a "lesser" lawyer like JB.
 
  • #1,547
I think Casey was likely telling the truth about 10 minutes in handcuffs. By 7 am on the 16th, the officers were suspicious enough of her that they would not have wanted to risk her running off, and they might also have wanted to scare her with the seriousness of the situation in hopes of getting her to talk. The Universal trip was after the text to Tony, so we don't have any information directly from Casey about whether she was handcuffed for that trip. I suspect she was not handcuffed for the actual Universal interview, but that's just based on the tone of the interview.

Here's what I said about the Universal interview last March when someone asked this question:

------------------------------------------------------------------
It is definitely possible to get a "voluntary" confession thrown out. The question will be whether she was "in custody" at that time--if so, they needed to give her the Miranda warning (and her statements will be no good without it) even if she really, truly, voluntarily wanted to talk to them. Whether she was "in custody" will depend on the facts, especially whether she would have reasonably felt free to leave. My gut feeling is that the questioning that took place at the home was probably OK, but the questioning that took place at Universal worries me a little.

It's possible that the officers considered the risk that anything Casey said would be thrown out as evidence if they did not give a Miranda warning, but decided the risk was worth it in order to try to get her to "crack" and tell where Caylee was (alive or dead). After all, if she had confessed and led them to the body at that time, they could have used the information from her confession to direct their investigation--e.g., to know what kind of forensic evidence to look for--even if they couldn't use the confession itself.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

If she was in handcuffs during the ride to Universal, that would only strengthen her impression that she was "in custody" and not free to leave. I mean, what are the chances that the cops are really going to let you leave if they drove you somewhere in handcuffs--even if they say you're free to leave? And, of course, she was arrested immediately after the Universal interview, so, in reality, she was not free to leave. And didn't Yuri tell George before they left for Universal that he should be prepared that Casey might not be coming back to the house? All in all, I think the Universal statement should be suppressed. And now I feel like I just wrote another defense brief. Maybe JB will share his $3/hr with me. ;)

But on the bright side, all the major lies from the Universal interview are in Casey's other statements as well...her statements to the 911 operator, her handwritten statement, and her statement to Yuri at the house. Not to mention her statements to her family and friends. This girl is a talker. :)



By the time the jury is selected, they will certainly know what case they were selected for, because they will have been asked all sorts of questions about what they've heard in the media, whether they have "blogged" about the case lol, etc.



Cindy's MySpace post is not just "something of Cindy's"--it's evidence being submitted against Casey by the State of Florida. Casey's attorneys have the right to challenge any evidence being submitted against her, regardless of where the evidence originally came from.



This is all part of JB and CM's big appeal strategy: "our client was railroaded by the media, so a fair trial was impossible." JB and CM think that the only reason we "bloggers" (lol) think they are [unusual persons] [pre-edited to save work for mods] is that the media have brainwashed us. :rolleyes:
Ok...I'm confused...are you saying her arrest was improper? If her arrest was improper, then how was it that the charges stuck and bail was $500,000,000? I don't remember this, but are any of the Universal employees present that day on the State's witness list and could they also testify to the conversations that took place prior to Casey and the detectives even even entering the building? I know they got a whole lot of other stuff to slam her with...I just want to see the door nailed tightly shut.
 
  • #1,548
So are you saying the OCSD or the LE can put handcuffs on you without giving you a Miranda warning in the States?


Isn't that against one of your constitutional rights?
 
  • #1,549
Ok...I'm confused...are you saying her arrest was improper? If her arrest was improper, then how was it that the charges stuck and bail was $500,000,000? I don't remember this, but are any of the Universal employees present that day on the State's witness list and could they also testify to the conversations that took place prior to Casey and the detectives even even entering the building? I know they got a whole lot of other stuff to slam her with...I just want to see the door nailed tightly shut.

So are you saying the OCSD or the LE can put handcuffs on you without giving you a Miranda warning in the States?


Isn't that against one of your constitutional rights?

We weren't talking about whether her arrest was proper, but whether her statements made at Universal could be admitted into court as evidence.

No Miranda warnings are necessary in order to arrest someone.
 
  • #1,550
We weren't talking about whether her arrest was proper, but whether her statements made at Universal could be admitted into court as evidence.

No Miranda warnings are necessary in order to arrest someone.
I learned something new...no Miranda warnings? I know we weren't talking about the arrest...but don't you think it was based on her statement at Universal?
 
  • #1,551
I learned something new...no Miranda warnings? I know we weren't talking about the arrest...but don't you think it was based on her statement at Universal?

Yes, but not giving Miranda warnings before a statement that leads to an arrest doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with the arrest...it just means (if the person was "in custody" at the time of the statement) that you can't use the statement as evidence against the person.

So the arrest is still good either way. :)
 
  • #1,552
Let me add that I'm talking about the possible exclusion of the Universal statements as evidence in the murder case. I haven't researched the issue, but I'm assuming that they can be used to support the charges of lying to LE, as the statements are the lies for which she is being charged. Again, that's just based on my gut feeling, not any research.
 
  • #1,553
We weren't talking about whether her arrest was proper, but whether her statements made at Universal could be admitted into court as evidence.

No Miranda warnings are necessary in order to arrest someone.

My understanding about the Universal tour was that she was not under arrest - that this was voluntary while searching for an "alive and missing" child.

If this was a voluntary trip, I don't understand why they the Defense is claiming her testimony at Universal had to be mirandized.
 
  • #1,554
My understanding about the Universal tour was that she was not under arrest - that this was voluntary while searching for an "alive and missing" child.

If this was a voluntary trip, I don't understand why they the Defense is claiming her testimony at Universal had to be mirandized.

The test for whether Miranda warnings must be given before statements may be admitted into evidence is whether the person is "in custody." Sometimes this happens when the person is arrested, and sometimes before. The major issue is whether or not the person would reasonably feel free to leave. In this case, IMO, Casey would not reasonably have felt free to leave that Universal conference room, especially if (and this has not been confirmed) she was handcuffed on the way over.

Plenty of "voluntary" statements are excluded because of the failure to give Miranda warnings.
 
  • #1,555
And, of course, she was arrested immediately after the Universal interview, so, in reality, she was not free to leave.
Not sure if this changes anything, but they did not immediately arrest her at Universal.

In Yuri's report he mentions how after the Universal interview they went to the parking lot and showed Casey the pictures of several Zenaida Gonzalez's. She didn't identify any of them and was then shown a picture of the Zenaida who visited Sawgrass - whom she didn't recognize either. They then headed back to the station where Yuri received multiple phone calls from Casey's friends and after that Casey was given another opportunity to change her story. When she stuck to her story they placed her under arrest (for child abuse and giving false statements to the police).

Page 15 & 16: Document provided by MuzikMan

And didn't Yuri tell George before they left for Universal that he should be prepared that Casey might not be coming back to the house?
I do remember that statement. On the other hand, George told the FBI that they were absolutely stunned to see the arrest of Casey on TV. During that interview he was stating how unhappy he was that Yuri did not give him a heads up. So what was really said to him... who knows...

And thank you AZlawyer for all your informative posts. Really appreciate it!

PS: snipped your post for brevity.
 
  • #1,556
Not sure if this changes anything, but they did not immediately arrest her at Universal.

In Yuri's report he mentions how after the Universal interview they went to the parking lot and showed Casey the pictures of several Zenaida Gonzalez's. She didn't identify any of them and was then shown a picture of the Zenaida who visited Sawgrass - whom she didn't recognize either. They then headed back to the station where Yuri received multiple phone calls from Casey's friends and after that Casey was given another opportunity to change her story. When she stuck to her story they placed her under arrest (for child abuse and giving false statements to the police).

Page 15 & 16: Document provided by MuzikMan

I do remember that statement. On the other hand, George told the FBI that they were absolutely stunned to see the arrest of Casey on TV. During that interview he was stating how unhappy he was that Yuri did not give him a heads up. So what was really said to him... who knows...

And thank you AZlawyer for all your informative posts. Really appreciate it!

PS: snipped your post for brevity.

George received a call from Yuri saying do not expect KC home tonight. George says this in an interview.

Yuri said they took her back to the station and the only thing he said to her about her arrest was "is this the story you are sticking with" She said yes and they placed her under arrest.
 
  • #1,557
  • #1,558
George received a call from Yuri saying do not expect KC home tonight. George says this in an interview.

Yuri said they took her back to the station and the only thing he said to her about her arrest was "is this the story you are sticking with" She said yes and they placed her under arrest.

Thank you Solace. My point is George gives many conflicting statements and, unless Yuri confirms that he gave them a heads up, I'm not sure what was said during that phone call ;)
 
  • #1,559
Is it likely they will get the photos from Joe Jordan's computer? Isn't that a bit crazy that the defense would claim the photos are so important to their preparation - I mean why wasn't the defense taking their own photos? Sounds like they waited around and decided to subpoena anything they think they could potentially use.
 
  • #1,560
I think Casey was likely telling the truth about 10 minutes in handcuffs. By 7 am on the 16th, the officers were suspicious enough of her that they would not have wanted to risk her running off, and they might also have wanted to scare her with the seriousness of the situation in hopes of getting her to talk. The Universal trip was after the text to Tony, so we don't have any information directly from Casey about whether she was handcuffed for that trip. I suspect she was not handcuffed for the actual Universal interview, but that's just based on the tone of the interview.

Here's what I said about the Universal interview last March when someone asked this question:

------------------------------------------------------------------
It is definitely possible to get a "voluntary" confession thrown out. The question will be whether she was "in custody" at that time--if so, they needed to give her the Miranda warning (and her statements will be no good without it) even if she really, truly, voluntarily wanted to talk to them. Whether she was "in custody" will depend on the facts, especially whether she would have reasonably felt free to leave. My gut feeling is that the questioning that took place at the home was probably OK, but the questioning that took place at Universal worries me a little.

It's possible that the officers considered the risk that anything Casey said would be thrown out as evidence if they did not give a Miranda warning, but decided the risk was worth it in order to try to get her to "crack" and tell where Caylee was (alive or dead). After all, if she had confessed and led them to the body at that time, they could have used the information from her confession to direct their investigation--e.g., to know what kind of forensic evidence to look for--even if they couldn't use the confession itself.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

If she was in handcuffs during the ride to Universal, that would only strengthen her impression that she was "in custody" and not free to leave. I mean, what are the chances that the cops are really going to let you leave if they drove you somewhere in handcuffs--even if they say you're free to leave? And, of course, she was arrested immediately after the Universal interview, so, in reality, she was not free to leave. And didn't Yuri tell George before they left for Universal that he should be prepared that Casey might not be coming back to the house? All in all, I think the Universal statement should be suppressed. And now I feel like I just wrote another defense brief. Maybe JB will share his $3/hr with me. ;)

But on the bright side, all the major lies from the Universal interview are in Casey's other statements as well...her statements to the 911 operator, her handwritten statement, and her statement to Yuri at the house. Not to mention her statements to her family and friends. This girl is a talker. :)



By the time the jury is selected, they will certainly know what case they were selected for, because they will have been asked all sorts of questions about what they've heard in the media, whether they have "blogged" about the case lol, etc.



Cindy's MySpace post is not just "something of Cindy's"--it's evidence being submitted against Casey by the State of Florida. Casey's attorneys have the right to challenge any evidence being submitted against her, regardless of where the evidence originally came from.



This is all part of JB and CM's big appeal strategy: "our client was railroaded by the media, so a fair trial was impossible." JB and CM think that the only reason we "bloggers" (lol) think they are [unusual persons] [pre-edited to save work for mods] is that the media have brainwashed us. :rolleyes:

In the audio tapes from the Universal 'chat' with Casey, LE makes it clear that she knows that she is being recorded, "the door is figuratively "open" but closed just for privacy, and she is free to leave at any time".

More importantly, Casey agreed that she understood that she was not being 'held' against her will, and would continue to speak with them.

So, I'm not understanding why you perceive the Universal chat to be especially worrisome?
 
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