Leslie Van Houten up for parole again

[KaaBoom]

Who says we won't spend money on college? I'm all for education, especially higher education. I'm Liberal until it comes to crime. That's why I'll pay higher taxes to build new prisons.

You are in a state that keeps increasing prison spending, while cutting education spending, and yet you advocate here, building even more prisons. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. The money to build these new prisons has got to come from somewhere, and it’s coming from cutting education spending.

Image source

 

[LinasK]

History does.

"There’s a direct relationship between how much money the Golden State spends on prisons and how much it spends on higher education, according to a report put out by the non-partisan public policy group California Common Sense. When one goes up, the other goes down. And, at least in California, the former has been going up a lot more than the latter."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/06/california-prisons-colleges_n_1863101.html

I'll gladly pay for both. I don't see why it has to be one or the other.

 

[SophieRose]

I'll gladly pay for both. I don't see why it has to be one or the other.

There you go, a person who thinks resources are unlimited. How do you think budgets are balanced? By cutting one department's budget to add to the other. And usually social programs are the first to be cut.

CDCR’s Budget for Fiscal Year 2016-2017
$10,540,120,000
http://www.cdcr.ca.gov/Budget/

 

[SophieRose]

Article from last week. Correction officers have a very strong union in California, and of course, want more prisons, more guards. As the article says, guards routinely earn $100,000 a year with overtime.

No time to throw more money at prison guards
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/prison-711087-state-prop.html

Yet, with $10.6 billion in proposed spending on the state’s corrections system, the most ever and equal to $70,000 per prisoner per year, California government seems set to continue overspending on prisons that mostly fail to “correct” those who enter them, while underinvesting in alternatives.

The current legislative session has mostly mirrored others in recent years, in that lawmakers have shown little interest in curbing spending on corrections or figuring out how better to allocate the state’s finite resources on preventing crime and keeping former inmates from returning to prison.

 

[simba16]

Who says prisons are obligated to correct...Prisons should remove offenders from society. There's something called personal responsibility. Convicts should correct themselves. Reminds me of Kristen Bury, "mother" of Chance Walsh, who after just a couple months in to her 25 year sentence, requested reduced sentence with a 3 year drug program, etc, all at tax payer expense, for her "betterment" (her term). Before serious prison time most offenders have already been given numerous chances, drug treatment, etc. Most in prison are the worst of the worst and aren't going to be corrected.

 

[human]

I would like to see reforms such as not using punishment in schools. There are alternatives that work. More jobs. Hope.

But with that being said, a person who wantonly destroys another deserves to be incarcerated.

When you drive drunk and hit a tree and become paralyzed, you don't get a do over.

The way she killed was beyond disgusting. Society has to say no. We do not accept this

 

[DexterMorgan]

There are different types of murderers. And she fits the bill of the one that should never be let out. Gangbangers as well. Unless it was self defense or premeditated self defense.

Example. This guy is out to kill me so I need to strike first since the police won't arrest him for hearsay and I have no way to relocate while leaving my entire family behind to become possible victims. Jmo

 

[Lilibet]

I would like to see reforms such as not using punishment in schools. There are alternatives that work. More jobs. Hope.

But with that being said, a person who wantonly destroys another deserves to be incarcerated.

When you drive drunk and hit a tree and become paralyzed, you don't get a do over.

The way she killed was beyond disgusting. Society has to say no. We do not accept this

BBM

I agree with your entire post, human. For me, this isn't about LVH at all. It's about the nature of the crimes the Manson family committed and their purpose. What they did isn't "garden variety" murder (not to minimize any kind of murder). It was aimed at society, intended to start a race war, depraved and brutal and as such it was bigger than any of the individual participants. Whether they had terrible childhoods, were on drugs, manipulated by Manson, have rehabilitated themselves, grown older, are no longer a threat isn't the issue to me at all in this type of case. That may be what the parole board is required to look at and if that's the law, fine. I accept that. But my personal opinion is that the nature of the crime she was part of should not allow for parole. If LVH doesn't understand and accept that, I don't think she's remorseful on a deep level. JMO

 

[DexterMorgan]

BBM

I agree with your entire post, human. For me, this isn't about LVH at all. It's about the nature of the crimes the Manson family committed and their purpose. What they did isn't "garden variety" murder (not to minimize any kind of murder). It was aimed at society, intended to start a race war, depraved and brutal and as such it was bigger than any of the individual participants. Whether they had terrible childhoods, were on drugs, manipulated by Manson, have rehabilitated themselves, grown older, are no longer a threat isn't the issue to me at all in this type of case. That may be what the parole board is required to look at and if that's the law, fine. I accept that. But my personal opinion is that the nature of the crime she was part of should not allow for parole. If LVH doesn't understand and accept that, I don't think she's remorseful on a deep level. JMO

Breaking News.

Governor Jerry Brown has just stated the following during a press conference.

" After listening to Dexter and Lilibet and other Websleuths members ; While receiving my tutus from across the pond ; I decided to void the parole request.

-Sincerely Jerry Brown-

LOL.

Just joking around. Much love to the thread and my dear friend who obviously knows that this was an off topic hug occasion.

Much love to all and sorry for acting like this was a true update.

Hugs my friends and enjoy the moment.

Life is too serious for the most part. Jmo.

 

[KaaBoom]

Who says prisons are obligated to correct...Prisons should remove offenders from society. There's something called personal responsibility. Convicts should correct themselves. Reminds me of Kristen Bury, "mother" of Chance Walsh, who after just a couple months in to her 25 year sentence, requested reduced sentence with a 3 year drug program, etc, all at tax payer expense, for her "betterment" (her term). Before serious prison time most offenders have already been given numerous chances, drug treatment, etc. Most in prison are the worst of the worst and aren't going to be corrected.

Actually they are obligated to do that. That’s why, they are called the Department of ”Corrections".

But I still halfway agree with you. The prison system is an epic fail at correction.

I think the main purpose of the prison system, is to protect society from certain individuals who are simply too dangerous to live in society. Unfortunately it goes well beyond that, by locking up people for drug offenses, or in this case keeping senor citizens in prison for crimes they committed as teenagers. All of which I believe is unconstitutional.

 

[Madeleine74]

BBM

I agree with your entire post, human. For me, this isn't about LVH at all. It's about the nature of the crimes the Manson family committed and their purpose. What they did isn't "garden variety" murder (not to minimize any kind of murder). It was aimed at society, intended to start a race war, depraved and brutal and as such it was bigger than any of the individual participants. Whether they had terrible childhoods, were on drugs, manipulated by Manson, have rehabilitated themselves, grown older, are no longer a threat isn't the issue to me at all in this type of case. That may be what the parole board is required to look at and if that's the law, fine. I accept that. But my personal opinion is that the nature of the crime she was part of should not allow for parole. If LVH doesn't understand and accept that, I don't think she's remorseful on a deep level. JMO

With all due respect, LVH is the subject of this parole decision. The parole board was examining her (LVH), not anyone else, which is their job. The nature of her crime is the intentional taking of a life, a homicide, on the night of August 9, 1965. What happened the night before, the week before, months before, by other members of the family is not part of LVH's specific conviction. Even if one thinks it should be, it's not.


LVH might not have understood very well at the time back in 1969 what all exactly crazy Charlie was planning in terms of the whole race war thing. Yes, he lectured them all the time when they were tripping out on LSD and other drugs. They were in a haze nearly 24/7. They knew some of his catch phrases and some of his beliefs. But he treated the 'girls' like slaves. They were not his confidants. That's not an excuse, it's just the way it was in that commune/cult. Manson was known to be a misogynist as well as a bigot. I doubt few members of his 'family' understood that Manson was really trying to get revenge for what he perceived as failed music deals and that, as much as a race war, was his motive.

 

[KaaBoom]

I'll gladly pay for both. I don't see why it has to be one or the other.

Start by repealing Proposition 13. Until that happens, it has to be one or the other. Having your cake and eating it too, is not an option.

 

[tricia]

I understand the need to let loose once in a while however, let's keep on the topic of Van Houten's parole?

Thank you

 

[LinasK]

There you go, a person who thinks resources are unlimited. How do you think budgets are balanced? By cutting one department's budget to add to the other. And usually social programs are the first to be cut.

CDCR’s Budget for Fiscal Year 2016-2017
$10,540,120,000
http://www.cdcr.ca.gov/Budget/

Nope! I'm all for raising taxes, I'm a Liberal!

 

[LinasK]

Breaking News.

Governor Jerry Brown has just stated the following during a press conference.

" After listening to Dexter and Lilibet and other Websleuths members ; While receiving my tutus from across the pond ; I decided to void the parole request.

-Sincerely Jerry Brown-

LOL.

Just joking around. Much love to the thread and my dear friend who obviously knows that this was an off topic hug occasion.

Much love to all and sorry for acting like this was a true update.

Hugs my friends and enjoy the moment.

Life is too serious for the most part. Jmo.

Hey, he's still my Governor Moonbeam, I don't see that as a negative!

 

[LinasK]

I'd happily repeal Prop. 13. I voted against it.

 

[Lilibet]

With all due respect, LVH is the subject of this parole decision. The parole board was examining her (LVH), not anyone else, which is their job. The nature of her crime is the intentional taking of a life, a homicide, on the night of August 9, 1965. What happened the night before, the week before, months before, by other members of the family is not part of LVH's specific conviction. Even if one thinks it should be, it's not.

LVH might not have understood very well at the time back in 1969 what all exactly crazy Charlie was planning in terms of the whole race war thing. Yes, he lectured them all the time when they were tripping out on LSD and other drugs. They were in a haze nearly 24/7. They knew some of his catch phrases and some of his beliefs. But he treated the 'girls' like slaves. They were not his confidants. That's not an excuse, it's just the way it was in that commune/cult. Manson was known to be a misogynist as well as a bigot. I doubt few members of his 'family' understood that Manson was really trying to get revenge for what he perceived as failed music deals and that, as much as a race war, was his motive.

I understand your points, agree with some and respect your opinion. The title of the thread is "Leslie Van Houten Up For Parole Again" so I do understand that the parole is about LVH and what the parole board considered in making their decision about her. As I have said, what the parole board has decided and what Governor Brown decides is up to them and I accept the decision, either way it goes.

It has been valuable to hear all opinions. None of them, including mine, really matter in practical terms regarding LVH. But I do think her possible parole raises interesting ethical, moral and social issues worth thinking about. From my first post on the thread, I have consistently approached the possible parole of LVH as part of a larger, general discussion. I think I've said all I can on that subject.

 

[Lilibet]

I understand the need to let loose once in a while however, let's keep on the topic of Van Houten's parole?

Thank you

I apologize for offending anyone with my brief humor digression, if that's what you're referring to, Tricia.

 

[tricia]

Hey Everyone,

Let's please keep on topic OK?
Thank you,
Tricia

 

[human]

I don't know if this is on topic or not. Confusing. But if the topic includes seniors doing crimes, here is one who continued on. Murders- but never convicted. Fraud. Arson.

http://zenithcity.com/january-5-2004-marjorie-congdon-caldwell-hagen-released-from-prison/