Leslie Van Houten up for parole again

[LinasK]

BBM

I'm all for mercy where it is warranted. But I think what sets the participants in these particular murders apart from other killers we will never hear about is the very fact that this crime was so sensational and so shocking to society as a whole...to this very day. All murder is wrong, but these murders were depraved and rocked people to the core. It wasn't "just" an offense against the victims and their loved ones. It was a horrendously terrifying offense against civilized human society (their intention)...or at the very least, against those of us who were living in California at that time. It may not seem fair, but IMO to parole Manson family members minimizes what they did. I don't believe they should expect legal mercy or expect to be paroled. JMO

Yup! Especially those of us who lived in L.A. at the time. We were terrorized by the Manson family. I was 8 years old, but you couldn't not know about what happened and how gruesome it was!

 

[wfgodot]

Her 46 years (thus far) is a lasting and vengeful vestige of the Nixon era; in effect she is a political prisoner.

She's striven for improvement and upheld the prison rules for nearly half a century.

Society gains nothing by keeping her caged. Free her.

 

[Emi]

Don't free her!! She is a convicted killer! Also, I don't want to feel unsafe and afraid any time I am near her area. She needs to die in prison!!

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[Madeleine74]

I certainly understand the argument that a heinous killer should never be freed, just on principle and as punishment. But let's not get carried away that LVH is actually a danger to anyone now. She's now an old(er) woman, she certainly looks far older than her 66 years, with approximately 46 years spent behind bars. The 2 years she was out of prison before she was re-convicted, she hurt no one and she was decades younger then. I seriously doubt that anyone is in danger if she gets paroled out of prison. That said, the 'Manson Family' gained such notoriety and fame that I do not see the governor ever releasing her and absolutely never Pat Krenwinkle, who did partake of the murders at both the Tate & LaBianca houses. I think all this 'fear' is for naught. Yes I understand the fear that was rampant in 1969-70 in LA and surrounding towns. It's nearly 5 decades later. Time to let those particular fears go.

If one is inclined to be paranoid and fearful, you have more current things to fear: ISIS among them.

 

[LinasK]

Her 46 years (thus far) is a lasting and vengeful vestige of the Nixon era; in effect she is a political prisoner.

She's striven for improvement and upheld the prison rules for nearly half a century.

Society gains nothing by keeping her caged. Free her.

She is not a political prisoner of the Nixon era. Nixon had nothing to do with it. When she was retried and convicted in 1978, Nixon was no longer president. Did Manson, Atkins, and Krenwinkle also become political prisoners??? We gain safety from this monster. Her attacks were vicious. She admitted holding her down and suffocating her, then stabbing her 16 times. How much more heinous can you get?? She did the crime, she needs to do her time and die in prison as did Susan Atkins.
Her crimes were among the worst of the worst. If we as a society decide that we should suddenly release lifers who are the worst of the worst, what have we become??? (And FYI, I am a Liberal- just not a "bleeding heart" one).

 

[LinasK]

I certainly understand the argument that a heinous killer should never be freed, just on principle and as punishment. But let's not get carried away that LVH is actually a danger to anyone now. She's now an old(er) woman, she certainly looks far older than her 66 years, with approximately 46 years spent behind bars. The 2 years she was out of prison before she was re-convicted, she hurt no one and she was decades younger then. I seriously doubt that anyone is in danger if she gets paroled out of prison. That said, the 'Manson Family' gained such notoriety and fame that I do not see the governor ever releasing her and absolutely never Pat Krenwinkle, who did partake of the murders at both the Tate & LaBianca houses. I think all this 'fear' is for naught. Yes I understand the fear that was rampant in 1969-70 in LA and surrounding towns. It's nearly 5 decades later. Time to let those particular fears go.

If one is inclined to be paranoid and fearful, you have more current things to fear: ISIS among them.

It's not getting carried away. She was originally sentenced to Death. If it weren't for Rose Bird on the Supreme Court, Leslie might well have been executed by now. At the time, they were as dangerous as ISIS- I lived it. I grew up not far from the Manson Ranch. People were terrorized by the Manson killings especially because in addition to the brutality, they were so random. The argument that was made saying she was just a drug-addicted teen under the influence of Manson is making excuses for her behavior- she still had free-will and judgment. She could've said "no". And... for those who claim she was a beauty queen and had an exemplary life except for this one little "blip"- let me remind you that her reaction to her parents divorce was to get pregnant at age 14! This woman has made bad choices all her life, she doesn't deserve to be rewarded with special treatment!
The fact that she is 66 and looks older than her age are irrelevant. I hope she has had a hard life in prison- she deserves it!!!:behindbar:behindbar:behindbar

 

[LinasK]

BBM

Apparently that's what the law says is the basis for a lifers release. Whether they are a danger to fellow citizens and not if the crime was heinous.



This ruling by the California Supreme Court shows that the emphasis is on rehabilitation and the release of convicts into society.



Davis- Lawrence committed her crime in 1971 so this affects people convicted way before 2008.

http://uscpcjp.com/meet-our-clients/sandra-davis-lawrence/

This trend appears to be motivated by prison overcrowding. I say build more prisons, or pick someone else to release- not Leslie, she's a Manson girl!!!

 

[PastTense]

Concerning the two years she was out of prison before being re-convicted: why didn't she flee the country?

 

[Madeleine74]

She's not a danger now. She wasn't a danger before she met and got involved with Manson and his brainwashing/drug inducing control. I don't believe she'll ever get involved with someone like that again. At the same time, it won't bother me if the governor says "no way" to her release.

Yes I know she was sentenced to die and yes I know the Supreme Court in 1972 overturned death sentences and once the DP got reinstated she was no longer eligible for that. I get all of that. That's why it won't bother me for her to stay in prison the rest of her life. But no, I don't believe she is now a risk to society in 2016 nor do I believe she is going to kill anyone *if* she is paroled. That doesn't mean I think she should be paroled, but on the score of "is she a danger to society now" my answer would be "no, not now."

 

[Emi]

She shouldn't be paroled. No one from Mason's family should be paroled even if eligible

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[Sulamith]

She needs to stay in prison and die there.

 

[meanmaryjean]

Leslie van Houten ASKED to go to the LaBianca's murder that night. She ASKED to participate. Because she'd been left behind the night before when Sharon Tate et al were butchered.

Leslie van Houten was sentenced to death. The fact that she is still drawing breath at taxpayers' expense is a travesty.

 

[LinasK]

Leslie van Houten ASKED to go to the LaBianca's murder that night. She ASKED to participate. Because she'd been left behind the night before when Sharon Tate et al were butchered.

Leslie van Houten was sentenced to death. The fact that she is still drawing breath at taxpayers' expense is a travesty.

I completely agree! Since the Death Penalty was re-instated in CA, that's where the rest of the Manson family need to be put back, and at the head of the line!!! Most likely they all would have been executed by now.

 

[Madeleine74]

Manson follower and henchman, Clem Grogan, convicted and given a death sentence by the jury for the torture-murder of Donald "Shorty" Shea with Manson, was freed in 1985. Don't see any uproar over that one.

Lynette 'Squeaky' Fromme, who tried to assassinate Gerald Ford in 1975 spent about 34 years in prison and was paroled. She too was given a 'life sentence.'

 

[DexterMorgan]

Her 46 years (thus far) is a lasting and vengeful vestige of the Nixon era; in effect she is a political prisoner.

She's striven for improvement and upheld the prison rules for nearly half a century.

Society gains nothing by keeping her caged. Free her.

Great. We can give her a job being your child's nanny. Because she wouldn't hurt a fly.

Btw. She would probably sacrifice a child in the name of Charles before the parents even get to work.

Not every person that is looking for a sweet old nanny is going to know who she is.

 

[LinasK]

Manson follower and henchman, Clem Grogan, convicted and given a death sentence by the jury for the torture-murder of Donald "Shorty" Shea with Manson, was freed in 1985. Don't see any uproar over that one.

Lynette 'Squeaky' Fromme, who tried to assassinate Gerald Ford in 1975 spent about 34 years in prison and was paroled. She too was given a 'life sentence.'

Bruce Davis was convicted in 1972 for taking part in the killings of Gary Hinman, an aspiring musician, and Donald "Shorty" Shea, a stuntman and a ranch at the Chatsworth ranch where Manson and his followers lived. Both murders occurred before the Tate-LaBianca killings, in which Davis did not participate.
Hinman’s body was found in his home, with the words “political piggy” drawn on the wall with his blood.
In January, Gov. Jerry Brown rejected his parole for the third time, saying that Davis remains a danger to public safety, saying in his decision that the “horror of the murders committed by the Manson Family in 1969 and the fear they instilled in the public will never be forgotten.”
Davis is serving a life sentence after he was convicted of two counts of first-degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder and robbery. He became a born-again Christian behind bars, earned a doctoral degree in philosophy of religion and ministers to other inmates. http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/...urders-where-they-are-now-snap-htmlstory.html

 

[Madeleine74]

Yes I know. The decisions are based on the infamy of the crime from 1969 and the abject horror people felt back then. I support them staying in prison for life. However, I can still concede that at the same time I don't perceive all of them as continuing dangers to society as they enter their 70s. Of course I don't have to make a decision about their release, nor do I need to find an acceptable reason to make that decision to keep them in prison. For the record, I would never be okay with the release of Tex Watson, Pat Krenwinkle, or Manson. I did not think Grogan should have been released either. I think Squeaky Fromme is a bigger danger than Van Houten. Neither she nor Sandra Good ever renounced Manson and I think they both still support him, at least to some extent, even now.

 

[LinasK]

The slayings for which the Manson family were convicted all occurred in the summer of 1969. In July, Gary Hinman, 34, a musician, was stabbed to death after refusing to turn over his money and property to Manson.
About a week later in early August, four Manson followers -- Susan Atkins, Patricia Krenwinkel, Watson and Linda Kasabian -- made their way through the Hollywood Hills to the Benedict Canyon estate rented by Tate and her husband, director Roman Polanski.
Steven Parent, 18, a friend of the estate's caretaker, was the first to die. Before being stabbed to death, Tate, 26, begged for her unborn child to be spared. Also killed were hairstylist Jay Sebring, 35; Voytek Frykowski, 32, a friend of Polanski's; and Abigail Folger, 25, a coffee heiress and Frykowski's girlfriend.
Later, Manson himself entered the Los Feliz home of Leno LaBianca, 44, owner of a small supermarket chain, and tied up LaBianca and his wife, Rosemary, 38. He left them to die at the hands of Watson, Krenwinkel and Leslie Van Houten.
Donald “Shorty” Shea, a hand at the Spahn Ranch in Chatsworth, where the Manson family lived for a time, would be killed later and his body concealed on the ranch for years. He was the last victim whose killing yielded a conviction. http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-charles-manson-not-married-20150202-story.html

 

[Lilibet]

Manson follower and henchman, Clem Grogan, convicted and given a death sentence by the jury for the torture-murder of Donald "Shorty" Shea with Manson, was freed in 1985. Don't see any uproar over that one.

Lynette 'Squeaky' Fromme, who tried to assassinate Gerald Ford in 1975 spent about 34 years in prison and was paroled. She too was given a 'life sentence.'

There was a lack of uproar over the paroles of Clem Grogan and Lynette Fromme because they don't really fall into the same category as the others. Not to minimize their crimes, but they weren't involved in the heinous crimes of Helter Skelter. The uproar is about paroling those who were involved.

Yes, Clem Grogan murdered Shea, but Grogan lived at the Ranch before the Manson Family arrived. Here's what the judge said when reducing his sentence to life:

The jury recommended a death sentence, but a judge reduced it to life in prison, saying Grogan 'was too stupid and too hopped on drugs to decide anything on his own.' Paroled in 1985.

Squeaky was clearly dangerous, but again, she did not participate in the murders that the other Family members did. So again, no uproar.

Lynette "Squeaky" Fromme (born Oct. 22, 1948). Not involved in the 1969 murders, she was convicted of a 1975 assassination attempt on President Ford in Sacramento. Initially incarcerated in the federal prison in Dublin, Calif., she was later moved to facilities in West Virginia and in Fort Worth. She was paroled in 2009 and reportedly lives in New York.

http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_23391950/manson-family-where-are-they-now
JMO

 

[Lilibet]

Yes I know. The decisions are based on the infamy of the crime from 1969 and the abject horror people felt back then. I support them staying in prison for life. However, I can still concede that at the same time I don't perceive all of them as continuing dangers to society as they enter their 70s. Of course I don't have to make a decision about their release, nor do I need to find an acceptable reason to make that decision to keep them in prison. For the record, I would never be okay with the release of Tex Watson, Pat Krenwinkle, or Manson. I did not think Grogan should have been released either. I think Squeaky Fromme is a bigger danger than Van Houten. Neither she nor Sandra Good ever renounced Manson and I think they both still support him, at least to some extent, even now.

BBM

I agree with your post, especially the part that they aren't all continuing dangers to society. I don't feel that Leslie Van Houten is a danger. She doesn't frighten me. Squeaky is the one I wouldn't want to live near. But I believe that it is the infamy of the crimes in 1969 that should keep these killers in prison.

At this point, it's not about who they have become while in prison. They should have become better people and helped others. That's the least any of them can do to show some semblance of remorse. For me, keeping them in prison is about the fact that they participated in something so horrible and shocking that they really can't redeem themselves in a legal sense IMO. It would be an affront to society to say they've paid their dues. And if they are truly remorseful, none of them will ever think they have paid their dues and should be released IMO. That would show me that they still don't accept the magnitude of their crimes.
All JMO