Let me hear from you if you think the R's are innocent

  • #141
1. The parents were never arrested.
2. Experts Say Ramseys Passed Lie Detector Tests
3. Ramsey family cleared of JonBenet’s murder and receive apology from Boulder County District Attorney Mary Lacy.
4. According to prosecutors new DNA tests which focus on skin cells left behind point to a mysterious outsider.

This is my short list, and why I think the Ramsey's are innocent.

Peace,

Mel
 
  • #142
1. The parents were never arrested.

The police and FBI WANTED to arrest them. The DA wouldn't go for it.

2. Experts Say Ramseys Passed Lie Detector Tests

mgardner, there are so many problems with those tests it would take all day to go through them all.
 
  • #143
The police and FBI WANTED to arrest them. The DA wouldn't go for it.



mgardner, there are so many problems with those tests it would take all day to go through them all.


Thank you for the capsule answer, Dave: I started typing a response yesterday afternoon but could feel a bleakness descending that has no place in a holiday weekend!
 
  • #144
1. The parents were never arrested.
2. Experts Say Ramseys Passed Lie Detector Tests
3. Ramsey family cleared of JonBenet’s murder and receive apology from Boulder County District Attorney Mary Lacy.
4. According to prosecutors new DNA tests which focus on skin cells left behind point to a mysterious outsider.

This is my short list, and why I think the Ramsey's are innocent.

Peace,

Mel



How many was done before,the R's passed them...Why,did the R's have to find someone that didn't give a drug test before preforming a lie detector test...

If the DNA was found on the longjohns,why not test other pieces of evidence like the cord,garrote,,and the duct tape to see if the same DNA could be found...

This why,I wonder about the R's innocence...And why,wait so long before a lie detector test,if you know your innocent why,wait...

The Ramsey's gave the clothes they worn that morning,a year later,why so long...
 
  • #145
Thank you for the capsule answer, Dave: I started typing a response yesterday afternoon but could feel a bleakness descending that has no place in a holiday weekend!

I know how that feels! I plan to celebrate Valentine's Day the Chicago Way.
 
  • #146
JR said he would be insulted to be asked to take a polygraph. Patsy said she'd "take 10 of 'em". Neither parent took any polygraph given by LE. They hired their own person to test them, and it took multiple tests for them to pass.

Why would innocent parents refuse to take the tests? Innocent parents in other notorious child murder or kidnapping cases have gladly done so.
 
  • #147
How many was done before,the R's passed them...Why,did the R's have to find someone that didn't give a drug test before preforming a lie detector test...

I didn't devote a whole chapter to it for nothing!
 
  • #148
JR said he would be insulted to be asked to take a polygraph. Patsy said she'd "take 10 of 'em". Neither parent took any polygraph given by LE. They hired their own person to test them, and it took multiple tests for them to pass.

Why would innocent parents refuse to take the tests? Innocent parents in other notorious child murder or kidnapping cases have gladly done so.

I believe Chris Rock said it best: "Passed it; got a 65!"
 
  • #149
  • #150
  • #151
1. The parents were never arrested.
2. Experts Say Ramseys Passed Lie Detector Tests
3. Ramsey family cleared of JonBenet’s murder and receive apology from Boulder County District Attorney Mary Lacy.
4. According to prosecutors new DNA tests which focus on skin cells left behind point to a mysterious outsider.

This is my short list, and why I think the Ramsey's are innocent.

Peace,

Mel

I see Mr. Dave responded to your logic so I will too.

Even though many will be critical of your list, especially #1 and #2, criticism of those points are worthless since #3 and #4 are now relevant and #1 and #2 are not.

You win at the logic game.
 
  • #152
I see Mr. Dave responded to your logic so I will too.

Even though many will be critical of your list, especially #1 and #2, criticism of those points are worthless since #3 and #4 are now relevant and #1 and #2 are not.

You win at the logic game.

The game is not yet over, my friend. #1 and #2 were just the warm-up.
 
  • #153
  • #154
The game is not yet over, my friend. #1 and #2 were just the warm-up.

I will keep waiting and see. I personally think the case has moved past the Ramsey's. It seems like they tried to give us enough information for us to be past all of this. That is just my take on it. But they don't feel the need nor have the responsibilty to prove it to guys and gals like us. They went as far as apologizing because they all thought a Ramsey was guilty.
 
  • #155
I will keep waiting and see. I personally think the case has moved past the Ramsey's. It seems like they tried to give us enough information for us to be past all of this. That is just my take on it. But they don't feel the need nor have the responsibilty to prove it to guys and gals like us. They went as far as apologizing because they all thought a Ramsey was guilty.

Roy, I have great respect for your posts here even though we are in disagreement.

However, I gotta say that Mary Lacy is the only person on public record that I know of who said the Ramsey family members were cleared as suspects. She hasn't proved anything. Other parties, in particular the law enforcement team to which she passed the case to, have said no one was cleared.

FWIW, in my opinion, no one is ever cleared until there is an arrest, indictment, and a guilty verdict passed down.
 
  • #156
I will keep waiting and see.

I'm assuming you're not speaking of my follow-up. But that's what I'm here for anyway. And you provided me a perfect segue:

I personally think the case has moved past the Ramsey's. It seems like they tried to give us enough information for us to be past all of this. That is just my take on it. But they don't feel the need nor have the responsibilty to prove it to guys and gals like us. They went as far as apologizing because they all thought a Ramsey was guilty.[/QUOTE]

You're a stand-up guy, Roy. I appreciate that more than you know. But what I'm trying to get across is that guys like me have no reason to trust Mary Lacy's decisions or to believe that she's acting in good faith. And I've put together a list which, I think, shows just how biased in favor of the Rs she was from the very start:

-Several people, including the Boulder cops and some of her own former campaign workers have stated that ML is more guided by radical feminist politics than legal principles. For illustration, one of these campaign workers, Frank Coffman, described an incident after the 1998 interviews with the Rs in which Lacy chastised Det. Tom Haney for being too tough on Patsy. Now, you think about that: an assistant DA, who had never even brought a murder case to trial in her entire career, telling one of the best homicide detectives in the region--if not the country--that he was too tough for using absolutely standard interview techniques that the newest rookie on a BEAT would know! Haney's general feeling was, "who the he** does she think SHE is?"

Doesn't that strike you as just a bit odd? I can tell you it jarred the he** out of me.

But it doesn't end there:

-ST writes in his book that Lacy told the investigators that because they were men, they couldn't understand a woman's mindset. That doesn't come off as a very reliable way of determining guilt or innocence. In fact, his book contains many instances showing that she had her mind made up well before 1998.

-Then there was the whole Boulder University debacle. If you're at all familiar with the Duke Lacrosse case, then this will seem like a dress-rehearsal for that sorry incident. A group of football players were accused of rape. Lacy was gung-ho to prosecute, even though it was clear that there was no case.

-She was convinced that Bill McReynolds was a likely perp LONG after everyone else had given up on him as viable.

-Another incident came in 2006 when a ten-month-old boy named Jason Midyette was beaten to death and she wouldn't take any action because the grandfather owns half of Boulder's Pearl Street Mall. It took one of Bill O'Reilly's field reporters ambushing her in her own driveway to get ANY action at all on that one.

-She attended PR's funeral on her own dime. What possible reason did she have for doing that?

-She gave us John Mark Karr, based on nothing except Michael Tracey's say-so. She damn well should have known better. A first-year law student would not have made those kinds of mistakes. Many people accused her outright of trying to give a gift to the Rs.

-Her biggest supporters have been the Rs, the prime suspects. They've been her biggest mouthpieces. JR even contributed to her reelection campaign.

-When she found out that the head investigator she'd hired was friends with ST the guy was dropped like a hot brick within a week.

-And let's not forget how she managed to get control of the case to start with. Lin Wood, the Ramseys' attorney, threatened to sue the police department if they didn't turn over the case to the DA's office, when he knew full well that Mary Lacy was sympathetic to his clients. What kind of sleazy backroom deal is THAT? I've never even heard of such a thing.

-Then, when she had the case, she made absolutely no attempt to even contact any of the original investigators, she brought in a whole new team consisting of people totally loyal to her point of view, including private investigators paid by the Ramseys, not to find the killer, but, as John admitted in his court deposition, to build a defense and keep him and Patsy out of jail.

From where I'm standing, the only way ANYONE could find this new DNA and automatically claim it proves an intruder would have to be if they had already decided there WAS an intruder in the first place!

So, in closing, all I can say is that someone better have one DAMN good explanation as to why I or anyone else should trust her judgment.

I would also suggest that you take a look over on the "If the Rs confessed" thread. You'll find a treatise from me on how the legal system in this country could have degenerated badly enough that people like Lacy could become prosecutors in the first place.

Just think it over, Roy.
 
  • #157
I have read numerous articles where Mary Lacy was one who was at one time certain that the Ramsey's were guilty. Take that for what it is worth.

I understand your mindset because of how you feel about the politics in Boulder. I am also aware of the Duke Lacrosse case more than you know. I just don't believe that Mary Lacy is at fault considering the evidence. She did not fabricate that. Crime scene professionals determined "intruder" not Mary Lacy.

That is what I believe. And it won't mean anything to you guys but we only got a small pebble of the actual evidence. Just enough for Mary to be able to make her statement. I see it different than you guys because I feel that the DA's office felt like the Ramsey's were involved but knew they did not have enough to convict.

A small part of me still hopes you guys pressure the hell out of Boulder with your opinions. That is my selfish hope just because I want to know more. Maybe one day they will drop more information. Cause I am certain they know a Ramsey did not perform an act of killing.
 
  • #158
Roy, I have great respect for your posts here even though we are in disagreement.

However, I gotta say that Mary Lacy is the only person on public record that I know of who said the Ramsey family members were cleared as suspects. She hasn't proved anything. Other parties, in particular the law enforcement team to which she passed the case to, have said no one was cleared.

FWIW, in my opinion, no one is ever cleared until there is an arrest, indictment, and a guilty verdict passed down.


With all due respect, people are cleared everyday without an arrest or indictment.
 
  • #159
With all due respect, people are cleared everyday without an arrest or indictment.

I see I was ambiguous. In the Ramsey case, I can not believe anyone is cleared until an arrest, indictment, and conviction is made. In other cases, many who have been "cleared" are brought back when new evidence is discovered.

I haven't read any articles that state Mary Lacy one time thought the Ramseys were guilty. The John Mark Karr case didn't help Lacy's credibility either.

We can agree on one thing for sure. All the evidence is not available to the public. I think that's the way the Defense Team intended it. :angel:
 
  • #160
I see I was ambiguous. In the Ramsey case, I can not believe anyone is cleared until an arrest, indictment, and conviction is made. In other cases, many who have been "cleared" are brought back when new evidence is discovered.

I haven't read any articles that state Mary Lacy one time thought the Ramseys were guilty. The John Mark Karr case didn't help Lacy's credibility either.

We can agree on one thing for sure. All the evidence is not available to the public. I think that's the way the Defense Team intended it. :angel:


OK, just the Ramsey case. I see and can go with that. I totally disagree with your last sentence because the defense doesn't have any evidence like the State does now. And they were hurt by JMK because much info was all over the net.

We are never going to agree but websleuths alone has numerous threads and videos showing the DA's office belief that the Ramseys were involved. Somewhere after failing to indict, I think the case changed. They already had DNA but even the DA's office had questions concerning it. It changed before JMK to a DNA case and I would bet the Boulder PD now realizes it too. They just won't tell you yet.
 

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