Let me hear from you if you think the R's are innocent

[BlueCrab]

BLUE CRAB...With all due respect, (gee I'm nice today),how do you get from the police showing a photo to John of the chair in front of the door, to John being the first one downstairs. Clearly that chair was in front of the door before John went down to the basement. If French didn't see it, then White on his trip down, (both preceded John) didn't see it, then a big hmmm for who put it there. The last person, between White and John was the photographer, if we are making guesses here, could we safely suggest White put it there?

sissi,

John Ramsey was the first person in the train room because he was the only one who had to remove the chair from in front of the train room door in order to enter. The chair wasn't there when Rick French searched the room at about 6:05; and the chair wasn't there when Fleet White searched the room at about 6:20. In John's own words he admitted the chair, and some boxes, were in front of the door and he had to move them aside so he could enter the room. John also said that when he went into the room he found the basement window slightly ajar and he closed it. Therefore, John searched the room BEFORE Rick French and Fleet White.

John was lying in the interview and, as liars often do, he said too much and got caught in the lie.

 

[sissi]

You are failing to add, this important fact........he was shown a picture of the chair in front of the door, a picture taken before he went downstairs.
If he had gone down at four, placed the chair in front of the door, it would have been there for French and White to see. Just how do you suppose it happened to be in a crime scene photo.

 

[BlueCrab]

You are failing to add, this important fact........he was shown a picture of the chair in front of the door, a picture taken before he went downstairs.
If he had gone down at four, placed the chair in front of the door, it would have been there for French and White to see. Just how do you suppose it happened to be in a crime scene photo.

sissi,

There is no crime scene photo of the chair blocking the door. That's impossible, unless it's a posed photo. Rick French, Fleet White, and probably John Ramsey, all went through the door before the photographer even showed up.

 

[sissi]

1998 June 25, 26, 27 - Taped Interrogation interview of John Ramsey by Lou Smit and Michael Kane in Colorado

"Like Patsy, John was shown a series of crime scene photographs. One showed a chair blocking the door into the train room in the basement. To get to the broken window in the cellar, someone has to go through that door. Ramsey found the chair blocking the entranceway during his first search of the basement, moved it and then moved it back, he said.
Lou Smit: "So you think that the chair would block the door and nobody would have gotten in there without moving it?"

This does fit in with John going down there after the photo, or even before, but it does not fit in with him going down there before French or White (remember they didn't see the chair!) Sure looks like White put that chair there.IMO

 

[Jeana (DP)]

DP, I would never consider accusing someone of being involved in the murder of their child unless I was absolutely sure. I am sure.

Tricia, I know you wouldn't. I just don't think that they had anything to do with it.

 

[Voice of Reason]

1998 June 25, 26, 27 - Taped Interrogation interview of John Ramsey by Lou Smit and Michael Kane in Colorado

"Like Patsy, John was shown a series of crime scene photographs. One showed a chair blocking the door into the train room in the basement. To get to the broken window in the cellar, someone has to go through that door. Ramsey found the chair blocking the entranceway during his first search of the basement, moved it and then moved it back, he said.
Lou Smit: "So you think that the chair would block the door and nobody would have gotten in there without moving it?"

This does fit in with John going down there after the photo, or even before, but it does not fit in with him going down there before French or White (remember they didn't see the chair!) Sure looks like White put that chair there.IMO

if that chair was on the OUTSIDE of the door first thing in the morning, noone left that house from the window, as lou smit would have you believe. you can't close the door, put a chair on THE OTHER SIDE OF THE DOOR, and then climb out the window. if it wasn't there first thing in the morning, then between fleet, john, and french, someone isn't being truthful, given the physical location of the chair with regards to the door and the window, plus the above testimony.

 

[KatherineQ]

Blueclouds - who knows how that chair got there. Probably, nobody remembers moving it there. In everyone's home, (and I'm sure yours too) things little things happen and you can't figure out why. Last Easter weekend I was at my parent's house, extended family, about 10 of us, and a really interesting pretty pair of scissors showed up, and a soft small fuzzy blanket. My dad took a picture of the two items, as a joke, demanding SOMEONE fess up to leaving them, and no one knows whose they are or how they got out on the floor in the guest room. Who knows?

That the chair could have been placed there while people paced and searched, and someone forgot it, is not nearly as big a stretch as the Ramsey's murdering their beloved child. In every case there are always small things that don't add up, that's life, stuff happens. It really proves nothing.

 

[sissi]

I know it's not enough information to draw a conclusion, so forgive me here, but I think Fleet White moved the chair to block the door, just in case someone was still in the house , out of fear. There is always the possibility he had a more sinister motive,as well, but I can't guess it.

 

[BlueCrab]

I know it's not enough information to draw a conclusion, so forgive me here, but I think Fleet White moved the chair to block the door, just in case someone was still in the house , out of fear. There is always the possibility he had a more sinister motive,as well, but I can't guess it.

sissi,

Fleet White had no motive to move the chair back in front of the door after searching for JonBenet in the train room. The next person in the train room after Fleet would have been the crime scene photographer, and he didn't take a picture of the chair in front of the door. His photo showed the chair sitting to the side. There is no photo of the chair in front of the door.

This discussion is important to resolve because if the chair was in front of the train room door blocking the only exit from the train room, then no intruder could have gotten into the house through the basement window. The window is in the train room. It also reveals John was lying about what time he was in the basement by himself.

Lou Smit and John Ramsey were looking at crime scene photo #71 (taken early that morning) of the train room door and a bunch of junk piled nearby, including the chair:

JOHN RAMSEY: "Here's the chair I said was blocking the door" (pointing to the nearby chair). "And it's not" (blocking it now). "I moved the chair to get into the door." In the transcript John Ramsey does say at this point, "If this (the photo) was taken before I was down there -- well, I put it back." But that statement doesn't make any sense. It reveals John unsuccessfully trying to wiggle out of something he just said.

LOU SMIT: "So do you think the chair would block the door and nobody would have gotten in there without moving it?"

JOHN RAMSEY: "Correct."

 

[dottierainbow]

How many of you are aware of the murder of Stephanie Crowe in Escondido, Calif., in 1998? She was murdered while the family was asleep. Her brother was falsely accused by the police, and coerced to confess to a crime along with 2 friends,to a murder they did not commit.A Schizophrenic drifter Richard Tuitte was found to be the actually murder. Anyone can be made to look like they are guilty by the police.
Because of this I think even if I was innocent I would also hire a lawyer. And we are in America and this still happens.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/14/48hours/main649381.shtml

 

[sissi]

BC, this is "all I got", where did you get your info with the variation in wording?
1998 June 25, 26, 27 - Taped Interrogation interview of John Ramsey by Lou Smit and Michael Kane in Colorado

"Like Patsy, John was shown a series of crime scene photographs. One showed a chair blocking the door into the train room in the basement."

I found what you see, BC, June 23rd.
9 LOU SMIT: I wanted to direct your attention,

10 if you could, John. This photograph 71, and

11 especially in the entryways there and into the

12 various rooms. Now this must have been taken

13 fairly early on the morning of the 26th.

14 Can you describe what you see there? Is there

15 anything out of place or is there anything

16 different from the way you remember it. Because

17 you said you went down into that area.

18 JOHN RAMSEY: What is difference is, I

19 think that the door is blocked by this drum table.

20 Here's the chair I said was brought to the door.

21 And it's not. I moved the chair to get into the

22 door.

23 If this was taken before I was down there -- well

24 I put it back. When I went down there, that chair

25 was kind of blocking that entrance right there.

0278

 

[BlueCrab]

20 Here's the chair I said was brought to the door.

sissi,

There's a lot of mistakes in the interview transcripts, and that's where it's easy to be misled. For instance, on line 20, this is what John really said:

"Here's the chair I said was blocking the door."

 

[sissi]

..and in the picture it's blocked by a drum table?
Elves? This is confusing, yet it seems so important.

 

[BlueCrab]

..and in the picture it's blocked by a drum table?
Elves? This is confusing, yet it seems so important.

sissi,

The CHAIR was blocking the entrance looking at the door from the outside of the train room (the side of the door facing the hallway). The DRUM TABLE was blocking the entrance looking at the door from the inside of the train room (the side of the door facing the train room). The door apparently swung outward, into the hallway.

IOW, the chair was in the hallway; the drum table was in the train room.

 

[aussiesheila]

BlueCrab and Sissi

Lou Smit questioned John Ramsey about the chair and drum in the doorway of the train room presumably because he thinks it is important. Does he think it is important because it has got something to do with whether or not someone could enter or leave the room while one or both is in place? Surely not. The chair was not actually totally preventing access to or from the room was it?

He must think it is important for some other reason.

When I read John Ramsey’s statement somewhere else on this forum he was replying to Lou Smit’s questions about photograhs showing the chair and the drum blocking the doorway.

Presumably the photographs were taken taken after they found the body at 1 pm? Surely they weren’t taken early in the morning as Lou Smit said - wasn’t everyone sitting around waiting for the kidnappers call right up until 1 pm?

If that is the case wouldn’t the photographs be a re-creation of what Rick French thought he had seen in the room at 6.05 am when he first went down there?

I think John is supposed to have gone downstairs before 10 am and when he is talking to Lou Smit he seems to be saying that the photograph is not exactly as he remembered the doorway. And he is confused.

If Rick French went down first and looked in the train room he might not have noticed that the window was open, John said it was only open 1/4 inch - that could easily be missed. Did he say definitely that he checked the window and it was locked? Do we know exactly what he said about the chair and the drum?

Could someone please tell me where I can look up the statement made by Rick French about searching the train room?

 

[twinkiesmom]

Trisha,
I am not posting as a notguilty, but I would like to know what DNA amplification techniques were used on the samples in this case. I wonder if they have lost specificity for sensitivity. Are we seeing signal or noise?

 

[BlueCrab]

BlueCrab and Sissi

Lou Smit questioned John Ramsey about the chair and drum in the doorway of the train room presumably because he thinks it is important. Does he think it is important because it has got something to do with whether or not someone could enter or leave the room while one or both is in place? Surely not. The chair was not actually totally preventing access to or from the room was it?

He must think it is important for some other reason.

When I read John Ramsey?s statement somewhere else on this forum he was replying to Lou Smit?s questions about photograhs showing the chair and the drum blocking the doorway.

Presumably the photographs were taken taken after they found the body at 1 pm? Surely they weren?t taken early in the morning as Lou Smit said - wasn?t everyone sitting around waiting for the kidnappers call right up until 1 pm?

If that is the case wouldn?t the photographs be a re-creation of what Rick French thought he had seen in the room at 6.05 am when he first went down there?

I think John is supposed to have gone downstairs before 10 am and when he is talking to Lou Smit he seems to be saying that the photograph is not exactly as he remembered the doorway. And he is confused.

If Rick French went down first and looked in the train room he might not have noticed that the window was open, John said it was only open 1/4 inch - that could easily be missed. Did he say definitely that he checked the window and it was locked? Do we know exactly what he said about the chair and the drum?

Could someone please tell me where I can look up the statement made by Rick French about searching the train room?

aussiesheila,

The two crime scene photos being discussed, #'s 71 and 72, were taken early in the morning of the 26th. The crime scene technician who took the photos started snapping pictures even before the sun came up.

Yes, the photos are extremely important. They verify what John said about moving the chair before being able to enter the train room where the broken basement window is located. The photos don't show the chair blocking the door; they show the chair that WAS blocking the door.

John's comment about his having to move the chair to get in is evidence that he was in the train room before Rick French or Fleet White were, because THEY didn't have to move the chair to get in. When in the train room John said he found the basement window open, so he closed and locked it.

Officer French was in the train room at about 6:05 AM looking specifically for a possible source of entry for the kidnapper. If the window had been open at 6:05 AM French would have noticed it. That's exactly what he was looking for. There's only two windows in the entire basement -- one in the train room and one in the powder room.

Therefore, John was in the train room looking for JonBenet even before the 911 call was placed at 5:52 AM, even though he says he didn't search the basement looking for JonBenet prior to calling 911. He's lying. And since he's lying IMO John found JonBenet's body much earlier in the morning and re-staged it to cover for Burke. Why else would he lie about it?

The chair, by John Ramsey's own admission, proves there couldn't have been an intruder who obtained access to the house from the train room. And the chair, again by John's own admission, proves he lied when he said he wasn't in the basement until sometime between 7 and 9 AM. He had to have been in there before 5:52 AM to have closed and locked the window because at 6:05 AM Rick French didn't find the window open, and at 6:20 AM Fleet White didn't find the window open.

BlueCrab

 

[Eagle1]

What it seems you're saying is that the out-of-place large stuffed chair or barstool attracted John's attention to the Train Rm door instead of what the killer evidently intended.

I don't want to interrupt the door discussion, should have put this in the earliest part of the thread, but there really is someone out there who tries to make it a sin of awful pride to enter beauty contests or even play piano, as both JonBenet and Danielle Van Dam did, fwiw. Probably was not there in person. Okay, sorry for the slight interruption of train of thought.

John went to the train room before the 5:52 am call. Was able to act like he knew nothing. Possible.

 

[Voice of Reason]

Officer French was in the train room at about 6:05 AM looking specifically for a possible source of entry for the kidnapper. If the window had been open at 6:05 AM French would have noticed it. That's exactly what he was looking for. There's only two windows in the entire basement -- one in the train room and one in the powder room.

BlueCrab

BlueCrab,

i agree with your analysis of the chair situation, and personally, i feel that JR was up to no good from the get-go, because he never told police about the broken/open window. why on earth he would not tell this to police when his daughter was missing is beyond me.

anyway, i have a question regarding the quote above. wasn't the window broken? all stuff regarding the chair and the open/closed window aside, wouldn't french notice the broken window as a source of entry?

 

[BlueCrab]

BlueCrab,wasn't the window broken? all stuff regarding the chair and the open/closed window aside, wouldn't french notice the broken window as a source of entry?

Voice of Reason,

The hole in the glass pane was only about the size of a softball, and John locked the window after he closed it. Officer French wouldn't have considered the window a source of entry.