Lies point us to the truth #2

[Rain on my Parade]

Another falsehood - At first the Rs did not recognize the Maglite as their property.

proust20,

I do believe the wet bar was JR collect all. The jelly bean dispenser is seen there, his attaché, his scarf, his day planner. The maglite was kept in the wet bar. It only makes sense to me that he would the one who cleaned the batteries since there were no fingerprints detected on them. Someone purposely wiped them off. I would consider this distancing. It was his flashlight after all given to him by JAR. For some gnawing reason I cannot rule him out as the perpetrator. Rewatching the R’s interviews, listening to their story line … watching their faces … I also cannot stop believing that something’s they tell are truths per their story line e.g. someone snuck in the house while they were gone to White’s party. I wonder who it was that Joe Barnhill actually saw walking up the front steps Christmas afternoon!

*Side note ~ BR interview posted by icedtea4me clearly shows BR is hiding something by fisting his hand and literally kneeling on it. He puts himself in this stance when he is sitting in a chair? No, he definitely isn’t comfortable talking about the pineapple. Why would that be? It is something no one would think of as in digestion during the commotion taking place that night. But yet during autopsy it is there.

Who do you suppose lost it enough that night enough to crack JB skull 8” long leaving a bone fragment knocked into her skull with minimal bleeding? The skin wasn’t lacerated? Blunt object. I believe this happened when torture was applied to JB. She was accidentally hit on the head to stop the assault. Striking JB instead to stop the perpetrator of assault.

I believe the entire family took part in the deeds and coverup. They continue to. BR is brazen enough to say find the killer - look at the evidence. This is key in solving this case. The judicial system should step up. As we all know money talks. Boulder is so laid back but also extremely cliquish. They do not take well to strangers speaking to them. Even the BPD look the other way. People are different no mater where you go. It’s part of what makes traveling fun - culture. Here it helps to have money to push things under the rug.

 

[UKGuy]

proust20,

I do believe the wet bar was JR collect all. The jelly bean dispenser is seen there, his attaché, his scarf, his day planner. The maglite was kept in the wet bar. It only makes sense to me that he would the one who cleaned the batteries since there were no fingerprints detected on them. Someone purposely wiped them off. I would consider this distancing. It was his flashlight after all given to him by JAR. For some gnawing reason I cannot rule him out as the perpetrator. Rewatching the R’s interviews, listening to their story line … watching their faces … I also cannot stop believing that something’s they tell are truths per their story line e.g. someone snuck in the house while they were gone to White’s party. I wonder who it was that Joe Barnhill actually saw walking up the front steps Christmas afternoon!

*Side note ~ BR interview posted by icedtea4me clearly shows BR is hiding something by fisting his hand and literally kneeling on it. He puts himself in this stance when he is sitting in a chair? No, he definitely isn’t comfortable talking about the pineapple. Why would that be? It is something no one would think of as in digestion during the commotion taking place that night. But yet during autopsy it is there.

Who do you suppose lost it enough that night enough to crack JB skull 8” long leaving a bone fragment knocked into her skull with minimal bleeding? The skin wasn’t lacerated? Blunt object. I believe this happened when torture was applied to JB. She was accidentally hit on the head to stop the assault. Striking JB instead to stop the perpetrator of assault.

I believe the entire family took part in the deeds and coverup. They continue to. BR is brazen enough to say find the killer - look at the evidence. This is key in solving this case. The judicial system should step up. As we all know money talks. Boulder is so laid back but also extremely cliquish. They do not take well to strangers speaking to them. Even the BPD look the other way. People are different no mater where you go. It’s part of what makes traveling fun - culture. Here it helps to have money to push things under the rug.

Rain on my Parade,

It only makes sense to me that he would the one who cleaned the batteries since there were no fingerprints detected on them.

So why would any of the Ramsey's need to clean the batteries, is that not a red flag, i.e. did the intruder bring his own batteries as well as the size-12's?

This act informs us the Ramsey's were forensically aware, despite some theories where they are characterized as ignorant.

BR is on edge in all his interviews as he was intimately involved. His parents attempted to stage him out of the crime-scene altogether which failed once folks listened to the 911 call.

If the case is PDI or JDI then BR has still colluded with his parents, and continues to do so, to stage JonBenet's postmortem death. It's there for everyone to see, even Dr. Phil recognized this by asking BR if he whacked JonBenet?

It would have been BR who fetched the pineapple for JonBenet as she could not reach to high shelf in the fridge.

If it had been Patsy then she would have realized she needed to clean up the breakfast bar to make her and JR's version of events match the carnage on the ground.

The blunt object was likely the flashlight, and it was probably one of the parents who whacked JonBenet. What do we call it, mercy killing, or a first attempt at staging which failed. Cue Lights, Camera, Action: Ligature plus Paintbrush?

The JonBenet case is bad news for Boulder. They do not want to talk about it. What is Boulder famous for: The JonBenet Case.

Next to nobody in the corporate class want to affiliate with JR.

JR having drank the JonBenet Kool-Aid wanted to run as a Republican for office, guess what he was blackballed and told not to return.

Eventually he sobers up and realizes he only gets to play walk on parts in his own real life crime-story, where he is a prime suspect, but claims he is really a consultant how mind-bending is that?

.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

The JonBenet case is bad news for Boulder. They do not want to talk about it. What is Boulder famous for: The JonBenet Case.

UKGuy,
I couple of years back my son and I took a drive to Boulder. I must have driven up and drove that street 6 times without noticing the house. Finally I spotted a guy walking down the street. I asked him he he knew which house it was. He did not. He wasn’t even aware it happened there. Said he was into that sort of thing though and had just watched the Golden Gate killer on tv? Anyways, I’m still driving around and he stops me and shows me the house. It was hidden behind a forest of trees and overgrowth and a very tall fence. I got out and took pictures. He was like they aren’t going to like that. I was like, oh please … what are they going to do; arrest me? I also drove in the alley and saw where JB rode her bike that morning and her bedroom balcony. There was a driveway with a Jeep parked and the drive could possibly hold one other very small vehicle parked next to it. I live in a country where most people drive pickups or suburbans. It is so much smaller then one would think. The alley was hellish! It wasn’t what I would consider upscale by any stretch of the imagination. I still have my photos though.

The blunt object was likely the flashlight, and it was probably one of the parents who whacked JonBenet. What do we call it, mercy killing, or a first attempt at staging which failed. Cue Lights, Camera, Action: Ligature plus Paintbrush?

I think the head would was probably an accident. It was meant for somebody else. So they colluded. BR quite possibly walked in on the act and was therefore privy to the head bash and so demonstrated to Dr. B and he also saw the strangulation; as he shared the story with his buddy. I would love to know what his testimony was to the GJ!

Eventually he sobers up and realizes he only gets to play walk on parts in his own real life crime-story, where he is a prime suspect, but claims he is really a consultant how mind-bending is that?

Very!

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
I couple of years back my son and I took a drive to Boulder. I must have driven up and drove that street 6 times without noticing the house. Finally I spotted a guy walking down the street. I asked him he he knew which house it was. He did not. He wasn’t even aware it happened there. Said he was into that sort of thing though and had just watched the Golden Gate killer on tv? Anyways, I’m still driving around and he stops me and shows me the house. It was hidden behind a forest of trees and overgrowth and a very tall fence. I got out and took pictures. He was like they aren’t going to like that. I was like, oh please … what are they going to do; arrest me? I also drove in the alley and saw where JB rode her bike that morning and her bedroom balcony. There was a driveway with a Jeep parked and the drive could possibly hold one other very small vehicle parked next to it. I live in a country where most people drive pickups or suburbans. It is so much smaller then one would think. The alley was hellish! It wasn’t what I would consider upscale by any stretch of the imagination. I still have my photos though.



I think the head would was probably an accident. It was meant for somebody else. So they colluded. BR quite possibly walked in on the act and was therefore privy to the head bash and so demonstrated to Dr. B and he also saw the strangulation; as he shared the story with his buddy. I would love to know what his testimony was to the GJ!



Very!

Rain on my Parade,
A visit to the house is a must for all those seeking justice for JonBenet.

Even if it was stripped down on the inside and redesigned so it could be sold without reference to JonBenet.

From memory JR arranged the sale via some corporate vehicle with his buddies on the board as directors, no link to JR in the sales promotion.

I think the head would was probably an accident. It was meant for somebody else. So they colluded. BR quite possibly walked in on the act and was therefore privy to the head bash and so demonstrated to Dr. B and he also saw the strangulation; as he shared the story with his buddy. I would love to know what his testimony was to the GJ!

Yes, BR's testimony is likely to be at variance with what has subsequently transpired.

Some business CEO's and investigators at BPD think JR assaulted and killed JonBenet because she was going to tell?

A few at BPD think JR had JonBenet acting in a mini pageant to normalize whatever he was doing, hint: what Patsy refused!

Since JonBenet and BR were close friends, i.e. they shared beds, snacks, candies, etc. You have to wonder if JonBenet ever confided to BR that JR was allegedly molesting her?

BR knew too much detail regarding JonBenet's death not to be involved. Too many people have been hoodwinked by the parents claim BR slept through it all then he was moved to Fleet White's house.

The thing is all the staging was not undertaken to simply obscure some domestic accident.

Neither JR or PR were on top of the case with their initial version of events and of course evidence of pineapple rind in JonBenet's stomach along with the breakfast bar setup complete with the flashlight in the kitchen simply blows the parents account out of the water!

Is it not blindingly obvious the parents were staging BR out of JonBenet's homicide?

.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

A visit to the house is a must for all those seeking justice for JonBenet.

Even if it was stripped down on the inside and redesigned so it could be sold without reference to JonBenet.

UKGuy,
It isn’t necessary to visit JB home that she was murdered in order to seek Justice in this case. It wasn’t stripped down and there will always be a reference to Jonbenet and the house at 749 15th street. I had my own personal reasons for wanting to visit the home.

From memory JR arranged the sale via some corporate vehicle with his buddies on the board as directors, no link to JR in the sales promotion.

February 1998 A group of investors buys the home for $650,000, pledging to resell it and donate profits to the JonBenet Ramsey Children's Foundation.

Some business CEO's and investigators at BPD think JR assaulted and killed JonBenet because she was going to tell?

A few at BPD think JR had JonBenet acting in a mini pageant to normalize whatever he was doing, hint: what Patsy refused!

I don’t recall reading this before. Do you mind providing your source please?

Why do believe that JR and PR had to be there for Lucinda?

Since JonBenet and BR were close friends, i.e. they shared beds, snacks, candies, etc. You have to wonder if JonBenet ever confided to BR that JR was allegedly molesting her?

BR knew too much detail regarding JonBenet's death not to be involved. Too many people have been hoodwinked by the parents claim BR slept through it all then he was moved to Fleet White's house.

I don’t think they were that great of friends. They were brother and sister. I wonder why BR felt a need to share his bathroom habits with JB if this is the case?

I agree with you BR was involved.

The thing is all the staging was not undertaken to simply obscure some domestic accident.

Was the murder purposeful?

Is it not blindingly obvious the parents were staging BR out of JonBenet's homicide?

Why by linking him directly to the wine cellar? By removing him from the crime scene swiftly? By insisting he was asleep all along? BR slept directly above the commotion in the house that morning. He was an early riser and woke easily. Seems like the parents were pointing more in his direction then away from him. How do you suppose BR knife ended up being within a few feet of the soiled carpet in the basement, broken paintbrush. He mentioned someone took out a knife that night during his interview. Did BR retrieve his knife next to the diapers in the washroom cabinet? What is he doing in the diaper cabinet?

 

[icedtea4me]

<snip> How do you suppose BR knife ended up being within a few feet of the soiled carpet in the basement, broken paintbrush. He mentioned someone took out a knife that night during his interview. Did BR retrieve his knife next to the diapers in the washroom cabinet? What is he doing in the diaper cabinet?

Are you claiming that John and/or Patsy were afflicted by some strange disease that night in which their arms and legs fell off so it would've been impossible for them to have gotten Burke's pocketknife? Why would Patsy's kitchen knife be on the counter in the 2nd floor laundry room area?

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
It isn’t necessary to visit JB home that she was murdered in order to seek Justice in this case. It wasn’t stripped down and there will always be a reference to Jonbenet and the house at 749 15th street. I had my own personal reasons for wanting to visit the home.



February 1998 A group of investors buys the home for $650,000, pledging to resell it and donate profits to the JonBenet Ramsey Children's Foundation.



I don’t recall reading this before. Do you mind providing your source please?

Why do believe that JR and PR had to be there for Lucinda?



I don’t think they were that great of friends. They were brother and sister. I wonder why BR felt a need to share his bathroom habits with JB if this is the case?

I agree with you BR was involved.



Was the murder purposeful?



Why by linking him directly to the wine cellar? By removing him from the crime scene swiftly? By insisting he was asleep all along? BR slept directly above the commotion in the house that morning. He was an early riser and woke easily. Seems like the parents were pointing more in his direction then away from him. How do you suppose BR knife ended up being within a few feet of the soiled carpet in the basement, broken paintbrush. He mentioned someone took out a knife that night during his interview. Did BR retrieve his knife next to the diapers in the washroom cabinet? What is he doing in the diaper cabinet?

Rain on my Parade,

It isn’t necessary to visit JB home that she was murdered in order to seek Justice in this case.

Of course it's not. Some folks visit other landmarks in JonBenet's journey. It must help to get a feel for what might have gone on?

I don’t recall reading this before. Do you mind providing your source please?

Well the CEO quote was in the papers after JR tried to run for office.

The BPD quote is from a pvt whatsapp group where so called anonymous members tell it like they saw it. So they say?

Steve Thomas' book is full of hints that various investigators reckon the case is JDI, think on the change from sexual/assault - vaginal/assault to vaginal trauma.

Was the murder purposeful?

Depends what was going on in the mind of the person who whacked JonBenet then strangled her.

There is the distinct possibility JonBenet was killed so she could never speak and tell others the crimes committed against her?

How do you suppose BR knife ended up being within a few feet of the soiled carpet in the basement, broken paintbrush. He mentioned someone took out a knife that night during his interview. Did BR retrieve his knife next to the diapers in the washroom cabinet? What is he doing in the diaper cabinet?

Using BR's things to stage a crime-scene simply might mean they were to hand?

Still BR's knife making an appearance after LHP stashed it away is unexplained, another Ramsey mystery.

He mentioned someone took out a knife that night during his interview.

This is the interesting aspect, as BR should know nothing about a knife being used, period.

Add in his chat with Doug Stine regarding how JonBenet was killed you have more detail that a sweet innocent kid should not have.

10-years old and he is telling those who ask how JonBenet was killed along with mimed stike actions?

I guess the parents did minimal staging, i.e. little time, left some of BR's artifacts behind, i.e. resigned to some link, e.g. BR's long johns are a red flag IMO.

If the case were PDI or JDI they would both know after dialling 911 and the police arrive there would be no way they could escape scrutiny and likely arrest on suspicion of homicide, etc.

The best JDI or PDI spin is that they staged JonBenet's crime-scene using BR's artifacts to deliberately implicate him, thereby deflecting attention away from themselves.

Along with the Ransom Note they created enough noise in the forensic evidence to probably render any jury decision problematic?

Applying Occams Razor is usually sufficient to arrive at BDI.

On Occams Razor: for those who wonder what the big deal is should check out:

Life is Simple tells the remarkable story of how a thirteenth century monk's search for simplicity led to the emergence of the modern world.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Life-Simple-Science-Unlocked-Universe/dp/1529364930

Life Is Simple: How Occam's Razor Set Science Free and Shapes the Universe
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/56643989-life-is-simple

Worth a read or a listen via the audiobook.

.

 

[proust20]

Occam's razor can be useful. However, in a way, it was meant to delineate British common sense from complicated Continental philosophies. It would not be particularly effective in unraveling the mysteries of say historical Vatican cabals and Renaissance vendettas.

Burke colluded at a minimum in his pretense that he slept until BPD arrived. It isn't certain that anyone went to bed after returning from the Whites'. Even if the kids did go to bed right away, they both had to return to the kitchen area for the pineapple. Given the autopsy, this would have been around midnight, which would have them in bed for just a couple of hours at most, and the parents meanwhile not being cognizant of the children's movements. IMO the situation in the home went awry soon after getting back, if not in the car. The dubious Stines are the only ones who affirm that the Rs were a happy family on their way home. The extra hair tie was overlooked along with the pineapple.

The head blow did not necessarily precede the asphyxiation. It could have been staging to suggest the doings of a ferocious maniac? Following up on this speculation, the SA was not part of the staging; but rather, it was essential to the murder? The absence of semen at the CS doesn't automatically eliminate John, as we do not know the nature of the chronic abuse. But there is his stained robe on the floor upstairs which has never been elucidated. The media would not venture into this unseemly topic. No doubt LE did.

It is possible that those who took part in the staging subsequent to JB's demise were not fully aware of all that had happened that night? Why assume that the killer would confess to the others what had actually occurred? The shock and the violence had to be overwhelming for the culprit. Panic and guilt may have impeded truth telling. The killer would have needed cooperation from at least one other R; and so, there could have been a more 'acceptable' version which was related. Patsy seems at times to be piecing things together as BPD revealed evidence to her?

 

[icedtea4me]

<snip>Depends what was going on in the mind of the person who whacked JonBenet then strangled her.

Why one person doing both acts? Why not one person doing the head bash and another doing the ligature strangulation?

There is the distinct possibility JonBenet was killed so she could never speak and tell others the crimes committed against her?

I agree.

Using BR's things to stage a crime-scene simply might mean they were to hand?

Still BR's knife making an appearance after LHP stashed it away is unexplained, another Ramsey mystery.


This is the interesting aspect, as BR should know nothing about a knife being used, period.<snip>

What if Patsy, after she came up from the basement carrying her kitchen knife, decided to go up the main staircase that was nearby in the foyer? This would've taken her right by Burke's room. Patsy was no pixie. What if he heard her walking in the hallway from outside his room over to the laundry area? What if he heard her muttering to herself? What if he overheard the sound of cabinet doors opening and closing?

 

[proust20]

The considerable time between head blow and strangulation does suggest that these acts were done by different people. Why wait around to deliver the coup de grace?

 

[UKGuy]

Why one person doing both acts? Why not one person doing the head bash and another doing the ligature strangulation?





I agree.





What if Patsy, after she came up from the basement carrying her kitchen knife, decided to go up the main staircase that was nearby in the foyer? This would've taken her right by Burke's room. Patsy was no pixie. What if he heard her walking in the hallway from outside his room over to the laundry area? What if he heard her muttering to herself? What if he overheard the sound of cabinet doors opening and closing?

icedtea4me,

Why one person doing both acts? Why not one person doing the head bash and another doing the ligature strangulation?

BBM: It keeps your theory simple until it requires revision.

The point being we know the status of JonBenet's injuries but not who inflicted them, so digging in on who did what detracts from the big picture.

What if Patsy, after she came up from the basement carrying her kitchen knife, decided to go up the main staircase that was nearby in the foyer? This would've taken her right by Burke's room. Patsy was no pixie. What if he heard her walking in the hallway from outside his room over to the laundry area? What if he heard her muttering to herself? What if he overheard the sound of cabinet doors opening and closing?

Sure, what if, and if again, etc. The Lost In Space robot would say Cannot Compute ...

In a PDI Patsy would have whacked JonBenet on the head, either in anger or as a failed staging attempt, followed up with the ligature strangulation and as some suggest a fake sexual assault using the paintbrush?

I reckon Patsy and John were definitely involved in JonBenet's postmortem staging.

The question is who were they staging for?

.

 

[proust20]

A problem with the head blow is what was used to inflict it. It's not just a question of who did it. Knowing this weapon could help in locating where the blow took place. Subsequently hiding it is also part of the staging. Whatever it was could have been left in the WC along with the ligature. Why cover up its use if the autopsy would bring it to light? Perhaps this weapon was closely related to whomever wielded it?

 

[UKGuy]

A problem with the head blow is what was used to inflict it. It's not just a question of who did it. Knowing this weapon could help in locating where the blow took place. Subsequently hiding it is also part of the staging. Whatever it was could have been left in the WC along with the ligature. Why cover up its use if the autopsy would bring it to light? Perhaps this weapon was closely related to whomever wielded it?

proust20,
Good questions. Some accept the CBS narrative, i.e. JonBenet taking BR's pineapple, so here it was done at the breakfast bar?

Nobody needed to whack JonBenet on the head, it's not as if she was the victim of someone like Ted Bundy who had an organized MO.

We know there was no accident as JonBenet was denied medical attention.

Looks to me as if her head injury was premditated and intentional. I have it down as failed staging?

Why cover up its use if the autopsy would bring it to light? Perhaps this weapon was closely related to whomever wielded it?

To improve the staging effect, similar to dumping the barbie nightgown in the wine-cellar, i.e. it's not elsewhere to alert investigators?

Two candidates for the weapon are the flashlight or the dumbells in JonBenet's bedroom?

The flashlight might simply be circumstantial artifact used by all three parties?

Which means it had to be wiped clean. A curiosity is that BPD have never stated if they looked for or found used batteries in the house?

.

 

[UKGuy]

Occam's razor can be useful. However, in a way, it was meant to delineate British common sense from complicated Continental philosophies. It would not be particularly effective in unraveling the mysteries of say historical Vatican cabals and Renaissance vendettas.

Burke colluded at a minimum in his pretense that he slept until BPD arrived. It isn't certain that anyone went to bed after returning from the Whites'. Even if the kids did go to bed right away, they both had to return to the kitchen area for the pineapple. Given the autopsy, this would have been around midnight, which would have them in bed for just a couple of hours at most, and the parents meanwhile not being cognizant of the children's movements. IMO the situation in the home went awry soon after getting back, if not in the car. The dubious Stines are the only ones who affirm that the Rs were a happy family on their way home. The extra hair tie was overlooked along with the pineapple.

The head blow did not necessarily precede the asphyxiation. It could have been staging to suggest the doings of a ferocious maniac? Following up on this speculation, the SA was not part of the staging; but rather, it was essential to the murder? The absence of semen at the CS doesn't automatically eliminate John, as we do not know the nature of the chronic abuse. But there is his stained robe on the floor upstairs which has never been elucidated. The media would not venture into this unseemly topic. No doubt LE did.

It is possible that those who took part in the staging subsequent to JB's demise were not fully aware of all that had happened that night? Why assume that the killer would confess to the others what had actually occurred? The shock and the violence had to be overwhelming for the culprit. Panic and guilt may have impeded truth telling. The killer would have needed cooperation from at least one other R; and so, there could have been a more 'acceptable' version which was related. Patsy seems at times to be piecing things together as BPD revealed evidence to her?

proust20,

Occam's razor can be useful. However, in a way, it was meant to delineate British common sense from complicated Continental philosophies. It would not be particularly effective in unraveling the mysteries of say historical Vatican cabals and Renaissance vendettas.

That might refer to the empirical vs rational perspective. Occam's point of view is different, so different, it led to the Vatican losing it's authority and affirming that of Gallileo.

Burke colluded at a minimum in his pretense that he slept until BPD arrived. It isn't certain that anyone went to bed after returning from the Whites'. Even if the kids did go to bed right away, they both had to return to the kitchen area for the pineapple. Given the autopsy, this would have been around midnight, which would have them in bed for just a couple of hours at most, and the parents meanwhile not being cognizant of the children's movements. IMO the situation in the home went awry soon after getting back, if not in the car. The dubious Stines are the only ones who affirm that the Rs were a happy family on their way home. The extra hair tie was overlooked along with the pineapple.

BBM: Yes, so say the Stines, who were subsequently employed by JR, also DS is a BR buddy. Susan Stine impersonated a BPD Chief via email, so the Stines were not neutral observers.

The head blow did not necessarily precede the asphyxiation. It could have been staging to suggest the doings of a ferocious maniac? Following up on this speculation, the SA was not part of the staging; but rather, it was essential to the murder? The absence of semen at the CS doesn't automatically eliminate John, as we do not know the nature of the chronic abuse. But there is his stained robe on the floor upstairs which has never been elucidated. The media would not venture into this unseemly topic. No doubt LE did.

BBM: Did this failed staging prompt the ligature asphyxiation, an undetectable staging is no staging at all?

Suggesting the head blow precedes the asphyxiation?

The SA might be staging simply to offer a motive?

Absence of semen does not rule out JR or BR.

You would need to forensically link the fibers on JR's robe to any deposited on JonBenet.

So in summary the head blow, SA, and ligature asphyxiation might represent staging?

It is possible that those who took part in the staging subsequent to JB's demise were not fully aware of all that had happened that night? Why assume that the killer would confess to the others what had actually occurred? The shock and the violence had to be overwhelming for the culprit. Panic and guilt may have impeded truth telling. The killer would have needed cooperation from at least one other R; and so, there could have been a more 'acceptable' version which was related. Patsy seems at times to be piecing things together as BPD revealed evidence to her?

BBM: Sure, in a BDI the parents would not be privy to everything that took place.

Patsy had no answers for the size-12 Bloomingdale's and explained BR's long johns away as Patsy's choice despite JonBenet having a drawer full gowns and pajama bottoms!

.

 

[proust20]

A peculiar aspect of the head blow is that it did not bleed visibly. It is difficult to determine where it could have happened other than the basement as there are no signs of disturbance in the living quarters. There is also the time (40 min?) between it and the fatal asphyxiation. If the head blow happened first, it cannot be staging. Continuing with this notion, for some unknown reason, it became necessary to finish off JB with strangulation. As often suggested, this may have been because JB mistakenly was presumed already dead. Possible. All in the WC would be staging including the ligature and the SA.

There is evidence that JB was asphyxiated while lying on her stomach. The head wound also indicates that she was in a prone position. This in turn suggests continuity despite the time gap. A possible conclusion is that the head blow was staging? This could explain the time gap as the stager(s) devised the final tableau with a deliberate attempt to link the position of the body. There was a lot of calculation devoted to the staging.

None of the proposed weapons - Maglite, golf club, bat, et al, have blood or tissue. All traces would be very hard to eradicate. Although the head wound was not readily observable, it had to be known that it would be revealed in the inevitable autopsy. So why bother hiding the weapon? LE would know that something was used by someone, including an intruder. Leaving the weapon by the body would not change the nature of the violence. This object could be closely associated with an R; but everything in the house would be connected to the family.

The Maglite makes for a good candidate mainly because of the wiped down batteries which an intruder wouldn't do. The Rs did try to distance themselves from what turned out to be a gift from JAR. It was left out on the breakfast bar. All this seems too clever by half.

The head blow being the first infliction upon JB works for BDI. The case against Burke is less secure if the strangling occurred first? If SA were the motive for the murder, the head blow makes sense as staging?

 

[UKGuy]

A peculiar aspect of the head blow is that it did not bleed visibly. It is difficult to determine where it could have happened other than the basement as there are no signs of disturbance in the living quarters. There is also the time (40 min?) between it and the fatal asphyxiation. If the head blow happened first, it cannot be staging. Continuing with this notion, for some unknown reason, it became necessary to finish off JB with strangulation. As often suggested, this may have been because JB mistakenly was presumed already dead. Possible. All in the WC would be staging including the ligature and the SA.

There is evidence that JB was asphyxiated while lying on her stomach. The head wound also indicates that she was in a prone position. This in turn suggests continuity despite the time gap. A possible conclusion is that the head blow was staging? This could explain the time gap as the stager(s) devised the final tableau with a deliberate attempt to link the position of the body. There was a lot of calculation devoted to the staging.

None of the proposed weapons - Maglite, golf club, bat, et al, have blood or tissue. All traces would be very hard to eradicate. Although the head wound was not readily observable, it had to be known that it would be revealed in the inevitable autopsy. So why bother hiding the weapon? LE would know that something was used by someone, including an intruder. Leaving the weapon by the body would not change the nature of the violence. This object could be closely associated with an R; but everything in the house would be connected to the family.

The Maglite makes for a good candidate mainly because of the wiped down batteries which an intruder wouldn't do. The Rs did try to distance themselves from what turned out to be a gift from JAR. It was left out on the breakfast bar. All this seems too clever by half.

The head blow being the first infliction upon JB works for BDI. The case against Burke is less secure if the strangling occurred first? If SA were the motive for the murder, the head blow makes sense as staging?

proust20,

A peculiar aspect of the head blow is that it did not bleed visibly. It is difficult to determine where it could have happened other than the basement as there are no signs of disturbance in the living quarters. There is also the time (40 min?) between it and the fatal asphyxiation. If the head blow happened first, it cannot be staging. Continuing with this notion, for some unknown reason, it became necessary to finish off JB with strangulation. As often suggested, this may have been because JB mistakenly was presumed already dead. Possible. All in the WC would be staging including the ligature and the SA.

The head blow could have occurred anywhere in the house, even in the car travelling back from the Stines.

JonBenet's bedroom was messy and disorganized, signs of disturbance or lazyness, you decide.

Regardless of which theory you favor, some degree of re-staging has to take place, so to explain most of the anomalies, i.e. no one Ramsey acted alone.

1. SA = Sexual Assault
2. HB = Head Blow
3. WD = Wiped Down
4. RD = Redressed
5. BM = Body Moved
6. LA = Ligature Asphyxiation

The above events are what we can assume took place, only that we do not know who did what, some events might have happened more than once, e.g. RD or WD?

So assuming a BDI events might sequence so: SA, HB, WD, RD, BM. BR's RD would be the removal of the size-6 underwear, and redressing JonBenet in the Bloomingdale's size-12's and a pair of his long johns?

Assuming the parents assisted then they might be responsible for WD, RD, BM, and LA? So the RD here might be the removal the Barbie Gown and replaced with the Gap Top, WD could be JR when he transfers his fibers, and the BM is to somewhere other than the wine-cellar, LA can be PR or JR, PR's fibers embedded into the ligature knotting favors her?

Other than the SA all the other events are staging. If the SA is defined as staging obviously all six events are staging.

Any PDI or JDI would follow a similar sequence with tweaks to suit the path whichever RDI theory you select.

A candidate weapon for the HB can be the Flashlight, whether it is or not does not invalidate us saying there was a HB.

There is an anomaly in the above, but I've left it in to underline that there is stuff we do not know about!

.

 

[anonymiss]

BR told Dr. Phil he would take a lie detector test. Why hasn't BR been given one?

 

[UKGuy]

BR told Dr. Phil he would take a lie detector test. Why hasn't BR been given one?

anonymiss,
He cannot be forced to take one.

Could also be everyone involved thinks he would not pass?


Dr. Phil's chat is not the same as a police interview under oath or giving testimony in court, BR can say whatever he likes.


Dr. Phil's interview was meant to be a makeover and response to the then upcoming CBS documentary.

It was a massive fail for BR, Dr. Phil had to re-schedule his show to get out a Burke is really nice episode.

It's notable he has never reappeared on his show, but Dr. Phil is the guy to go to for a media makeover, so he might do another talk?

.

 

[proust20]

UKGuy,

You have offered a thoughtful consideration of the possible logistics of the case. Allow me to add, for thoroughness, that there could have been manual strangulation, which the LA was meant to disguise. More importantly, there is the crucial RN. This could have been written at any time. While it is logical to believe that it was composed after JB's death, that is only an assumption.

If JB didn't go to bed, she'd be still wearing the GAP top, with no need to change her out of it. The extra hair tie indicates that she was awake after coming back from the Whites'. I suppose that this is not part of the concept of redressing as outlined; although, it is significant. Patsy's fibers in the ligature suggest that she didn't go to bed either, or else her nightclothes would be imbedded there instead. Should Burke have been in bed if his sister and mother weren't? Because of the fibers and the RN, Patsy solely could have been responsible for all the logistics of the CS. But that seems unlikely.

In your speculative chain of events, you do not have HB after LA. IMO this is a possibility.

However, whatever the order of events, the main concern is the motive for the murder. All else flows from this. Impulsive rage or chronic SA? The missing size 6 Wednesday Bloomis seem to lean in favor of SA. I do not see readily how this fact is connected to a moment of rage. BR or JR could have made the mistake with the size 12s. BR could have thought that he was being clever redressing her in the long johns. JR might not have been aware to which child these belonged. What is so odd is that she was left in them. Their presence defeats the FF fantasy of the RN. This points out the disconnect between the RN and WC scene. Round and round and...

Whoever it was who committed the murder, that person recovered from the violence quickly enough before BPD arrived. This is characteristic of the psychopath's ability to compartmentalize. Only Patsy showed afterwards appropriate emotions of grief and rage. "Go back to the drawing board." Ironically, that's where we all still find ourselves!

 

[icedtea4me]

<snip>Patsy had no answers for the size-12 Bloomingdale's and explained BR's long johns away as Patsy's choice despite JonBenet having a drawer full gowns and pajama bottoms!

Patsy's clue with dressing JonBenet in longjohns as opposed to a pair of pajama bottoms was that John was long that night (i.e. She caught him with an erection). It's just like the heart on, or hard-on, her [JonBenet's] hand.