Linguistics

Are you willing to name names? Because I can't think of anyone here who doesn't want JB's killer found. Why would they not want the case solved? So that we can all continue the debate? I hardly think that would be reason enough to keep this case in perpetual limbo.
What gives you that impression?

Perhaps I should have said "I'm not sure some of them actually want the murderer found if it disagrees with their theory on who did it."

When I see people who attempt to diminish the value of real evidence and then propose what I believe are totally irrational, baseless hypothesis to weave it into their own theory, well you really have to wonder!

Of course, this leads to another issue, if the real murderer was on this forum, (and there's no reason why not) then that person might have a vested interest in deriding evidence that could point to their guilt. This also applies to an accomplice or close relatives/associates of the murder.

No I won't name names, but I'm sure they know who they are LOL.
 
I'd be glad to see it solved either way. I don't have to be right. If it turns out my theories are completely wrong, so be it. That is not the important thing. The important thing would be this case solved. (REALLY solved, as in PROVED solved, not "Mary Lacy solved").
 
This is from Chapter 1 of the housekeepers book (right before it starts getting explicit)
...then again I think someone helped her write this so I don't know how far it's valid for comparison.


"Who killed JonBenet Ramsey?

How did she die?

Those are the questions most Americans want answered.

And I can answer them.

In fact, I am one of only three people who knows the answer to the terrible question: "Who killed JonBenet Ramsey?"

And who are the other two people who know the answer?

John and Patsy Ramsey, the parents of JonBenet Ramsey

And there is a reason why we know who killed JonBenet.

Unlike other authors who have written books about the case before us, we were actually part of the Ramsey household.

Right up until the day JonBenet died.

But I also know who killed JonBenet Ramsey because I saw John and Patsy Ramsey in their private, unguarded moments. And because I took care of JonBenet as if she were my own child.

But now, because the police have failed miserably in solving the mystery of JonBenet's death, I feel that it is finally time for me to come forward and tell my story.

It is a frightening story with a terrible secret.

The secret is this:

I have no mouth and I must scream.

That's right.

I have no mouth and I must scream!

I have no mouth and yet I must scream the name of JonBenet's killer at the top of my lungs to the rest of the world.

Try to imagine what it is like to know who killed JonBenet Ramsey, and yet have no one to listen to you, or help you do anything about it. That is part of the terrible secret.

No one will help me!

Not the police.

Not the district attorney.

Not even a federal judge.

And yet I know who killed JonBenet Ramsey, just as surely as if I had been there in that dark, awful wine cellar with her and witnessed her murder.

And I will tell you what happened on that dreadful Christmas night.

If you will listen.

But before I can do that, I must briefly tell you about the only two other people who know who murdered JonBenet. They are John and Patsy Ramsey."

Brought over from Murry from another thread.
 
The RN was intended to be presented as an RN- simple as that. If it was meant to be read (as a script, over the phone for example) there was NO reason to leave it behind on the back stairs. It wasn't accidentally dropped- it was intentionally placed there. If it was meant to be taken out of the house with the victim by the kidnappers, that makes TWO things inexplicably left behind- the victim and the script.

+1 It was left on the stairs with the intent that someone should read it.
 
I was didn't realize that LHP actually wrote (and had published) her book. So I assume by Claudicici's post that she has? Anyone know the title?
 
I was didn't realize that LHP actually wrote (and had published) her book. So I assume by Claudicici's post that she has? Anyone know the title?

Don't think claudicici said it was published. Far as I know it was rejected. Can't understand why LOL.
 
I actually stole the quote from Murry.....
I don't think it was ever published.


"The case, filed in 2001, went on for a year, with Hoffman-Pugh working with her attorneys in Atlanta, where the Ramseys had moved after the murder, and in New York. She'd thought of writing a book about the case and her grand jury testimony in Boulder, but instead, decided to go with the lawsuit."
http://www.greeleytribune.com/article/20030617/NEWS/306170002


"Hoffman-Pugh 2001. Linda Hoffman-Pugh. The Death of an Innocent. Full book has never been published due to legal dispute. Chapter One is on-line at Forums for Justice."
http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/Sources-Used-at-This-Site
 
I've been reading these latest posts and thinking....

It seems that the two main, or most prominent, theories about this case (RDI and IDI) each have sizeable groups of informed proponents with strong, even passionately strong, convictions about "their" theory. The members of these two groups are actually more than merely informed--they are clearly intelligent, reasoning, searching individuals who have come to their particular conclusion after long research and thought.

On one hand, that says to me that there is presumably no reasonably convincing evidence, nor body of evidence (that is, taking all the evidence for each theory as a whole) that weighs enough to sway a significant majority of the total group. Not that a majority "wins" in these circumstances, but I think it does imply that no one should close their minds about any other theory.

I can tell that I'm not saying anything new here. :) But as that "fresh" perspective, I'd just encourage everyone to look at that idea of open-mindedness in this case again as it pertains only to themselves. Some of the attitudinal factors I'm picking up involve implying that the "Others" are not open to opposing ideas. While that may be true, if everyone reasserts openness within themselves, then any basis for such accusations will always, necessarily, be false.

OH, man, did I really just write all that? If someone throws a bucket of water on me, I'll understand.....
 
Here I am again already. :blush:

I was wondering: Are there any "outlier" theories? Also, isn't some distinction made between PRDI, JRDI, and different I's in IDI?? It's not like all the evidence would be the same in subcases, would it??

What about combination theories? There must be PR/I-DI possibilities. And so on.
 
Hi Tapu and thank you for your perspective in this case. For years I have gone back and forth with my opinion on what happened that terrible night. I never wanted to believe that any of her family were involved and I think I have been pretty open minded. I just wanted to speak to the question you raised above about maybe it could have been PR/IDI. Several years ago I read a theory (it may have been here at WS) that involved Patsy having a photographer to come and do a shoot on JB late that night after everyone else was asleep and something went horribly wrong (with the photographer being a pedophile, I believe). This meant that she had to go along with a cover-up because John would have been against the idea and she had not told him about it. This is not a theory that I myself believe but is this the kind of idea that you had in mind with your post?
 
Precisely. Since there is evidence in (at least) these two different directions, what if we consider both. Yes, your example is what I was looking for. And then, I also figure that there must be a slew of theories that were explored earlier and so weren't subsumed under RDI and IDI.

I tell ya.... focusing now on the mindset that is created by these two theories being so prominent.... I think it would be better if there were no combined "R" theory at all--how could evidence support any old R but no particular R??? And, then, same if not more so, with multiple I's!
 
One thing I wonder about (as far as IDI) is do you believe the Ramseys did not know this person? I do believe it was one of the family (1 of 4), but if I did not, I would believe they knew the person very well. Someone in their circle of intimate friends, not the housekeeper, groundsman, or Santa. For whatever reason, the Ramseys went to a lot of trouble to protect someone.
 
Precisely. Since there is evidence in (at least) these two different directions, what if we consider both. Yes, your example is what I was looking for. And then, I also figure that there must be a slew of theories that were explored earlier and so weren't subsumed under RDI and IDI.

I tell ya.... focusing now on the mindset that is created by these two theories being so prominent.... I think it would be better if there were no combined "R" theory at all--how could evidence support any old R but no particular R??? And, then, same if not more so, with multiple I's!

Perhaps you'd be better to look at it like this:

RDI = someone who was inside the house (a total of 4 people including JBR)
IDI = someone who came into the house (theoretically the rest of the world)

I am IDI because I don't believe PR, JR or BR did it.

The possibilities for IDI are endless. That doesn't mean I think it was random, because there was a motive, it was planned, and whether by design or accident, has not yet been solved.
 
There are different shades and nuances with RDI theories for some RDI. I for one, think there could been another family member in the house that night that the parents have not mentioned. JR's older son, a student at the university there, was on Christmas break, and allegedly in Georgia with his mother, JR's first wife. Yet, JR IMMEDIATELY hired a lawyer for his ex, though she lives in Georgia and had nothing to do with the murder. I believe to was to prevent her from being questioned as to the whereabouts of her son that night.
One of the Rs neighbors (who knew the family well enough that he took care of their dog that night in preparation for the R's trips) said he SAW JAR walking into the house earlier. The Rs have said their video camera was not working and that's why they would not show LE any movies they took Christmas morning. I believe it is a good possibility he was there.
Suppose he had a college pal there, too.
There is also a theory that BR may have had a friend over as well, someone who possibly was going along on the trip. This friend's parents, though rabid defenders of the Rs after the murder, were conspicuously NOT among those called by the Rs to come over after the 911 call. Was it because they had already BEEN there, in the middle of the night after the terrible event involving their son, BR and JB?
Some feel Patsy's father may have been there also. JB's grandparents were oddly silent after the murder of JB.

So you see, there are possibilities for IDI that do not involve a stranger.

I also do not think it even remotely possible that Patsy scheduled a photography session with a pedophile for late Christmas night, with her husband and son home and a 7 AM flight the next morning. IF she were to be complicit in something like that, she'd schedule it when there was no one else around. I don't think this kind of things is something that was part of JB's death (or life).
 
...the JAR theory is compelling,wasn't there a blanket with his sperm and a Dr.Seuss book found in the suitcase?Am I remembering this correctly?....
The missing christmas pictures and video's are really,really suspicious to me,especially because recording Christmas memories seemed to be a HUGE deal for the R's....
The only thing about the JAR theory to me is I don't think PR would have covered for him.
She sure seemed to cover for SOMEONE though.....
 
...the JAR theory is compelling,wasn't there a blanket with his sperm and a Dr.Seuss book found in the suitcase?Am I remembering this correctly?....
The missing christmas pictures and video's are really,really suspicious to me,especially because recording Christmas memories seemed to be a HUGE deal for the R's....
The only thing about the JAR theory to me is I don't think PR would have covered for him.
She sure seemed to cover for SOMEONE though.....

Yes, there was a comforter with his semen on it, and a Dr. Seuss book found with it in the suitcase in the basement. This suitcase was identified (I believe it was JR) who said it was one that JR used to go back and forth to the campus. It isn't unusual that a college boy has a blanket with semen stains on it. The
Dr. Seuss book definitely raises a red flag. The book with the blanket sounds like a child-molestation kit. Pedophelia-to-go.
 
Precisely. Since there is evidence in (at least) these two different directions, what if we consider both. Yes, your example is what I was looking for. And then, I also figure that there must be a slew of theories that were explored earlier and so weren't subsumed under RDI and IDI.

I tell ya.... focusing now on the mindset that is created by these two theories being so prominent.... I think it would be better if there were no combined "R" theory at all--how could evidence support any old R but no particular R??? And, then, same if not more so, with multiple I's!

Here's Stephen Singular's theory.I find it very interesting.

snip

Q: The most curious piece of evidence seems to be the ransom note and its mention of the unusual figure of $118,000, which seems to indicate someone close to the family is responsible. How does that fit with your theories?

I believe that the child was removed from the house that night, for the seemingly innocent purpose of photographing her or exploiting her in some way, and she was killed at another location. At least one parent knew this removal had taken place. I think that JonBenet was then returned home and the crime was covered up by someone inside the family. Both parents, in my opinion, do not have the same information about what occurred that night.

The unmatched hard evidence mentioned above excludes the Ramseys as the killers and most likely excludes their home as the scene of the crime. The death was "accidental" in that no one intended for her to be hurt, let alone killed.

Q: If that's the case, why not dispose of the body completely and claim that the child was abducted? Why would anyone go to the trouble of providing an elaborate ransom note to suggest a kidnapping when the body was found in the house? Can you provide any hypothetical scenarios to explain how and why this may have occurred?

I'm suggesting that the Ramseys loved their child deeply, despite what happened to her. To get rid of her on a cold night in December, by tossing her in a ditch or something of this sort, would have been a very difficult thing for a parent to do. I'm also suggesting, more significantly, that both parents did not participate in this cover-up. Only one. And the cover-up primarily intended to fool not the cops but the other parent. So it had to look credible while accomplishing other things: keeping the child in the house, even though she was dead, and making it look as if someone who knew their family and hated the father had come in and done all this to JonBenet. Also, one parent could not easily have left the house that night with the body. Something had to be done immediately that would occur in the home and be believable. According to John Douglas, the ex-FBI profiler who examined the Ramseys briefly after the murder and concluded they were not child killers, only one parent knew that John Ramsey had recently received a $118,000 bonus and that parent was the father. I believe that a husband's inability to confront his wife at a critical moment -- because of his desire to protect her feelings -- played an important role in this case. It is possible to be afraid of the cops, but terrified of your wife.


http://www.crime-research.org/interviews/484/2
 
Yes, there was a comforter with his semen on it, and a Dr. Seuss book found with it in the suitcase in the basement. This suitcase was identified (I believe it was JR) who said it was one that JR used to go back and forth to the campus. It isn't unusual that a college boy has a blanket with semen stains on it. The
Dr. Seuss book definitely raises a red flag. The book with the blanket sounds like a child-molestation kit. Pedophelia-to-go.

AND there was also a line in an interview somewhere that LHP had used it too.
 
Just to make it clear, when I said that I am RDI (one of four in the home), I meant PR, JR, BR, and JAR. I do not include JonBenet as one of the suspects.
 
Just to make it clear, when I said that I am RDI (one of four in the home), I meant PR, JR, BR, and JAR. I do not include JonBenet as one of the suspects.

Interesting your choice - you know JBR was there, but it seems that JAR was NOT!! How do you include him in your suspects? If you think he came back because someone in the neighbourhood saw a 'young person' coming from the house and thought it was JAR, then equally it could have been any one of thousands of students at the University.
 

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