Lion Air Flight JT610 plane crashes in Indonesia, 29 Oct 2018 *lawyer Tom Girardi charged in 2023 with defrauding victims*

[gregjrichards]

It’s good to hear that one of the black boxes has been recovered. The flight data recorder was buried in debris on the sea floor had to be dug out. I hope the other one is found soon. I read somewhere that the pilot panicked. I imagine many of them would if they knew a crash was inevitable and they had seconds left to live.

This short video shows some of the plane wreckage on the sea bed.

Black box retrieved from Lion Air plane

It is good news they found them. It will be great when we reach the point where they are no longer a necessity technologically. Desperately scouring the ocean for black boxes doesn’t seem like the most effective way of getting the vital information as there is always the danger they will not be found before the transmitter beacons fail due to the batteries.

 

[Scorpio1]

It is good news they found them. It will be great when we reach the point where they are no longer a necessity technologically. Desperately scouring the ocean for black boxes doesn’t seem like the most effective way of getting the vital information as there is always the danger they will not be found before the transmitter beacons fail due to the batteries.

It has been possible for quite a few years now that the data be downloaded directly to land , this came up in the early days of mh370 . It's all down to cost between airline and manufacture and sadly neater seem to be in any rush to implement it as it's not profitable to spend vasts amount of money on something that most likely never be needed in the aircraft,

 

[mickey2942]

Given how many planes are in the air at any given time, around the world, I am actually surprised that there are not more plane accidents. Especially with the extremely lax attitude by the ground and maintenance crews.

 

[Pi Thoughts]

Given how many planes are in the air at any given time, around the world, I am actually surprised that there are not more plane accidents. Especially with the extremely lax attitude by the ground and maintenance crews.

I agree with you, in early July this year I learned that it was the heaviest airline traffic day ever with over 200, 000 planes in a 24 hour period.
On searching I found the average is over 100,000 commercial flights every day.

This incredible animation shows every airline flight in the world over a 24 hour period

 

[gregjrichards]

It has been possible for quite a few years now that the data be downloaded directly to land , this came up in the early days of mh370 . It's all down to cost between airline and manufacture and sadly neater seem to be in any rush to implement it as it's not profitable to spend vasts amount of money on something that most likely never be needed in the aircraft,

I remember that from the MH370 discussion here. I think the regulators are going to have to make it mandatory at some point in the future so the Inmarsat technology is fully adopted. I know there is serious resistance from airlines at any added costs.

 

[Alethea]

I agree with you, in early July this year I learned that it was the heaviest airline traffic day ever with over 200, 000 planes in a 24 hour period.
On searching I found the average is over 100,000 commercial flights every day.

This incredible animation shows every airline flight in the world over a 24 hour period

And yet, I am still too afraid to fly. It is funny how our lizard-brain can still fear things despite copious amounts of evidence about the true risks.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

And yet, I am still too afraid to fly. It is funny how our lizard-brain can still fear things despite copious amounts of evidence about the true risks.

I don't love flying and often think of MH370 and other lost flights while I'm buckled into my window seat in awe of the view. But I will never stop, far too much to see and do outside of this island.

One of my friends always has a marker pen in her bag when she flies, she says if she's ever in a situation where she needs to leave a goodbye message she will scrawl it on the seat in front so it's not lost!

 

[JudgeJudi]

And yet, I am still too afraid to fly. It is funny how our lizard-brain can still fear things despite copious amounts of evidence about the true risks.

I'm only terrified of one thing ... being in a car. I don't drive and have to close my eyes when we're on busy roads. Seeing people texting while driving freaks me out.

Ironically, I have no fear of flying. We often travelled to Nepal in the 1990s and landed at Lukla Airport (9,382') a few times. The runway wasn’t even paved in those days, was 4 football fields long and ended in a rock wall. It was rated the world’s most dangerous for 20 years. I thought it was just fabulous when the pilot let me stand directly behind him in the cockpit and take photos as we landed, and when landed, all the passengers cheered. Those were the days.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Amid media speculation over the airworthiness of the aircraft, the transport minister suspended Lion Air’s technical director and three other officers on Wednesday to facilitate the crash investigation.

The suspended technicians “issued the recommendations for that [final] flight”, the ministry said in a press release. It did not say how many technicians had been suspended.

Lion Air crash: pilot on earlier flight asked to turn plane around

 

[Justice101]

Given how many planes are in the air at any given time, around the world, I am actually surprised that there are not more plane accidents. Especially with the extremely lax attitude by the ground and maintenance crews.

I don't think this is an accurate characterization.

 

[Justice101]

Amid media speculation over the airworthiness of the aircraft, the transport minister suspended Lion Air’s technical director and three other officers on Wednesday to facilitate the crash investigation.

The suspended technicians “issued the recommendations for that [final] flight”, the ministry said in a press release. It did not say how many technicians had been suspended.

Lion Air crash: pilot on earlier flight asked to turn plane around

I hope the ones suspended are still required to participate in the investigation. If Lion just fired the ones who know what was done wrong to crash the plane in order to save the company, that is just dead wrong.

 

[mickey2942]

I don't think this is an accurate characterization.

Really? I was a flight attendant for years, and some of the ground crew, especially if something went wrong with a plane, and you were not at a base, was pretty scary. I can't tell you how often I heard, literally, "Just patch with duct tape until we get back home.". Okay.

 

[Hatfield]

It has been possible for quite a few years now that the data be downloaded directly to land , this came up in the early days of mh370 . It's all down to cost between airline and manufacture and sadly neater seem to be in any rush to implement it as it's not profitable to spend vasts amount of money on something that most likely never be needed in the aircraft,

JMO
This is the sort of thing where I dont mind if government steps in and forces all airlines that fly in US to require an onboard device that can transmit accurate GPS location data to an external source.

They can pass some sort of legislation to require airlines to do it and give them 5 years to have every plane rigged up.

I dont think the cost of doing something like this is as bad as the airlines make it seem. Afterall we already have emergency beacon devices that can be bought or rented out for hikers that can do similarly.

SPOT Personal Tracker

They can push one button and get an emergency signal sent out by satellite that tells their GPS location.

Its one of the few sorts of things where I dont mind if government steps in and forces airlines to do it. Give them a deadline and make it happen.

 

[Hatfield]

And yet, I am still too afraid to fly. It is funny how our lizard-brain can still fear things despite copious amounts of evidence about the true risks.

Agree. As my Dad used to always tell me.....

"It may not be your time to leave the earth but what if its the guy sitting next to you time to go?"

 

[Hatfield]

Given how many planes are in the air at any given time, around the world, I am actually surprised that there are not more plane accidents. Especially with the extremely lax attitude by the ground and maintenance crews.

JMO

Re BBM
Ive been thinking about this a lot and this is just a theory I have but I think one reason why planes are typically ok during a flight is the "perpetual motion" of an engine.

If you think about your car for example which also has an engine. Automobiles seldom have their engine just quit while driving. Problems usually occur when trying to start a car engine or other problems but the engine itself usually stays running once its running. The engines perpetual motion keeps the engine running so long as there is not something else happen like running out of fuel or something bizarre happening.

With a plane engine its similar in that once the engine gets going it usually stays running unless something catastrophic happens. Which makes this particular disaster all the more interesting and quite rare.

 

[Justice101]

Really? I was a flight attendant for years, and some of the ground crew, especially if something went wrong with a plane, and you were not at a base, was pretty scary. I can't tell you how often I heard, literally, "Just patch with duct tape until we get back home.". Okay.

A combination of airplane design safety technology, pilot and air traffic training along with NTSB recommendations implemented... Statistically: It's safer to fly than it is to drive to the airport.

People that are closer to things tend to see the problems moreso than others. Your ability to judge the safety of the flying industry may be skewed by your closeness. This needs to be judged factually based on the results over the last 3 decades.

Here is some data.... Aviation safety - Wikipedia

 

[Scorpio1]

Or maybe the previous problem was fixed and we just have something simple like bird strike after take off,

 

[Vail]

I agree with you, in early July this year I learned that it was the heaviest airline traffic day ever with over 200, 000 planes in a 24 hour period.
On searching I found the average is over 100,000 commercial flights every day.

This incredible animation shows every airline flight in the world over a 24 hour period

WOW! That is just way too many.

 

[JudgeJudi]

On Friday, the transport ministry said it had found “minor” faults in two other Boeing 737 Max jets, including a cockpit indicator display problem which an analyst said may be similar to one reported in the crashed jet. The ministry is inspecting 10 of the newly released jets owned by Lion and flagship carrier Garuda.

Few details were released, but the ministry said it had looked over half a dozen jets so far and discovered that one had a problem linked to its cockpit display while another had a glitch in a jet stabilisation system.

Investigators have said it could take weeks to download the information from the retrieved flight data recorder, and likely much longer for the true cause of the tragic crash to be revealed. The black box is damaged and needs special handling to ensure its data survive.

'Why did it fly?' Grief mixes with anger over crashed Lion Air flight

 

[Snoods]

Agree. As my Dad used to always tell me.....

"It may not be your time to leave the earth but what if its the guy sitting next to you time to go?"

Heh. I always say "I'm not afraid of flying, it's the crashing part."