List - What didn't the jury hear?

[Schu7]

does anyone have any documentation of this fight? where did this come from? just wondering

The proof is in the neighbour's transcripts, when questioned. He heard the loud ugly fight. On the night of the 15TH. And Jesse Grund said that the fight became physical and Cindy tried to choke Casey. That is 2 witnesses outside lying Cindy.

Scroll down to near the bottom of this time line. You will find your answers in part here.
http://www.acandyrose.com/caylee_anthony_timeline2008June.htm

 

[lisa0477]

:woohoo:

I have already posted some on this topic because imo it is The single most important issue that EVERYTHING pretty much hinges on.. It is what was missing and it is the reason why the dots were not easily connectable being this issue is the entire glue that holds and ties everything together.. And it gives the true and accurate motive behind why Caylee was murdered by Casey..
Lisa0477 you bring up a good point that I had briefly wondered about the other day when listening to JA's closing argument..
QUOTE]

:rocker:
Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, every since this trial started I have been screaming, begging, to know why the fight was never ever told. It was exactly why she killed her. Way back when, the neighbors over heard it also, then the Aunt called in to Nancy G last week. To me nothing more needed to be proven. Jose contradicted himself so many times in his closing. I am so so glad you wrote this, I have been feeling so crazy.

 

[gitana1]

I had misgivings during the trial about motive. I felt they did not present enough evidence of motive. I can't second guess them though, because they must have had great reasons for not producing certain things - maybe they thought it would be too confusing or maybe the witnesses who could have given the info had issues, or the evidence was not strong enough, I don't know.

I certainly know that a lot of that evidence would have to come through Cindy who would not have admitted it. I also know that some evidence would not have been admissible. But here are some things I wanted to hear that I never heard (although some might have been introduced that I missed):

1. Tony Lazzaro did not want Caylee spending the night.
2. Tony Lazzaro expressed that he did not want kids but if he had any, he would want a boy.
3. Cindy held Caylee before casey did.
4. casey may have wanted to give up the baby but her mother would not let her.
5. casey was very angry at Caylee's second birthday and told a friend that her mom was trying to take over.
6. casey broke up with Jesse in part because she felt he loved the baby more than her and perhaps because casey was jealous of their bond.
7. casey referred to Caylee as "the little snot head" to her then boy toy who was begging her to come over. But, she clould not come over because her mom would not babysit.
8. casey really wanted to go to Puerto Rico with her friends and told them she was going. But her mom would not babysit and casey could not get the money. That was around the time the chloroform searches were conducted.
9. casey never bought anything for Caylee or supported her from money she earned or received through lawful means.
10. Cindy called casey to ask where the baby was one night when she had her at Ricardo's. She demanded that Caylee come home. casey took her home.
11. Cindy confronted casey about pretending to be working after Cindy found a photo of her partying when she said she was working. (Cindy had agreed to babysit that night).
12. There was obviously a lot of tension between casey and her parents because she wanted them to watch Caylee while she partied and refused to work and they wanted her to stop stealing and get a job before they would agree to unlimited childcare. (I realize that there are huge evidentiary problems with this but the state could have tried to present it as a theory in opening minus the stealing part).
13. The gleaming, smiling photo of casey right before she was arrested the first time.
14. Cell phone pings for George on the day Caylee was last seen as well as his work records, if any.
15. Cell phone pings and records for casey on the last day anyone saw Caylee alive.
16. An expert testifying how easy it would be to make chloroform.

In general, I wanted the state to really harp on the theory that casey was not only jealous of her mom's bond with Caylee, but that she felt replaced as the family princess, and that she had ongoing resentment because she could not go out whenever she wanted after Caylee was born. She felt her parents were at fault for that, especially Cindy. She was so infatuated with TonE and wanted to so badly to be free to be with him, but it was at that very time that the you know what was hitting the fan about the money she stole from the grandparents. that was the last straw that made her put her plan into action.

Sadly, none of the theft stuff could come in and for whatever reason, the state was unable to present a motive theory that was strong enough for this jury to accept.

ETA: Cindy was also threatening to take away Caylee. They never asked her about that or impeached her with her co-worker's testimony (who heard about it). That really would have been the ultimate replacement - casey kicked to the curb and her mother getting to have the innocent, pure Caylee for a daughter instead.

 

[gitana1]

I have already posted some on this topic because imo it is The single most important issue that EVERYTHING pretty much hinges on.. It is what was missing and it is the reason why the dots were not easily connectable being this issue is the entire glue that holds and ties everything together.. And it gives the true and accurate motive behind why Caylee was murdered by Casey..
Lisa0477 you bring up a good point that I had briefly wondered about the other day when listening to JA's closing argument..

I was so very disappointed that SA went the route of it being Caylee's age and progression in communicating/talking therefor soon would be telling the truth that momma ain't gotta job and there sure ain't a Zanny Nanny that we stay at.. That's momma's boyfriend, Ricardo..

I hated that very "iffy" scenario was used as the actual motive for killing Caylee.. And the main reason I hate it so much is because I don't feel it's true.. IMO the true motive of "why" is the exact reason that Cindy has fought so damn hard for Casey's life!!

The motive that took things from zero to 60 in a blink of an eye and IMO had Caylee dead less than 24short hours after it all occurred.. That incident was Cindy Anthony's final straw that broke all hell loose.. Resulting with not only Cindy going ALL THE WAY with Casey verbally but very much physically as well.. Cindy having just returned from a days visit with Caylee to see Cindy's dad in the retirement home(most recognize this video as it is where we saw Caylee sing "You are my Sunshine" and sat on her Papaws lap.. The last video of Caylee, June 15,2008.. And IMO Caylee was dead less than 24 hrs after the video was made).. Cindy while on this day visit she learned of Casey's thieving ways were now being used on her elderly parents and stealing hundreds of dollars from her dad's fixed income for payment for the home he was living in.. Cindy found out from her mom that this theft had occurred while during her visit that day..

It was the straw that broke the camels back and damn it this is one thing I side with Cindy and fully understand her breaking point.. Casey had been stealing from her parents.. Literally hundreds of checks and thousands of dollars.. And once Cindy learned that Casey now had the gall to steal like this from her grandparents, Cindy's parents on a fixed income.. Well.. Cindy broke.. She literally lost it on Casey that night.. IMO all well deserved and Casey had it coming..*

This was the fight of all fights between these two who My God obviously these two clash horns and butt heads on a regular basis.. But this was different IMO Cindy really really let it all out.. And I mean let every bit of it all hang out.. She was fed up and she was gonna be damned if this spoiled bratty beeeotch daughter of hers was not gonna dare go there(stealing)from Cindy's elderly parents.. She lost It!!! She lost it!!! I mean Cindy really lost it!! Telling and calling Casey all of the things she had wanted to call her and say to her for years.. I bet it was pretty damn brutal for little Miss Casey who was the family's thieving liar thT tended to get away with chit.. Yea pretty much get away with murder(pun intended) and now Cindy had her fill and it was all being slung in Casey's face like nothing she had ever ever experienced.. Thet included and I believe pretty much drew to a close the entire Cindy breaking bad on Casey fiasco.. And that was George having tO literally peel his wife and her hands literally off of and away from Miss Casey's neck..

You guys this is the damn motive!! It is the very event that resulted in less than 24 hrs later Caylee was dead..

U see Casey/Caylee immediately hauled out of the Anthony home that night after George had peeled her mother off of her.. This is what made Casey decide late on the night of June 15th, actually still Fathers Day, to forever take the one great joy, precious love that without a doubt Casey knew would be the ULTIMATE KNIFE IN HER MOTHERS HEART!!!

Casey murdered Caylee not outta fear of Caylee talking.. Nope.. Casey murdered that child
In cold blood out of sheer hatred, venomous hatred at that moment for her mom, Cindy.. Casey would teach Cindy the ULTIMATE LESSON NOT TO EVER EFF WITH HER BECAUSE MOM WHEN YOU DO YOU BETTER DAMN WELL BELIEVE I WILL MAKE YOU PAY.. and she did.. She murdered Caylee because she had the utmost of seething hate, resentment, and in that moment straight up cold hearted revenge .. Casey killed Caylee that night of the 15th..

Respectfully snipped be me for space.

I agree there was likely a huge fight at one point. But cell phone pings, IIRC, show that casey was home all night on the fifteenth, through to the morning of the sixteenth. And she was texting and talking to TonE for much of the night on the fifteenth.

They show that the next day, the sixteenth, she may have driven around some but was near home most of that day as well. But there was a four hour window during which her phone had no activity on the 16th. i think that is when Caylee was murdered. But I do think a huge confrontation was the last straw for casey and what prompted her to put her plan into action when she did.

 

[Benchwarmer]

:woohoo:

I have already posted some on this topic because imo it is The single most important issue that EVERYTHING pretty much hinges on.. It is what was missing and it is the reason why the dots were not easily connectable being this issue is the entire glue that holds and ties everything together.. And it gives the true and accurate motive behind why Caylee was murdered by Casey..
Lisa0477 you bring up a good point that I had briefly wondered about the other day when listening to JA's closing argument..
QUOTE]

:rocker:
Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, every since this trial started I have been screaming, begging, to know why the fight was never ever told. It was exactly why she killed her. Way
back when, the neighbors over heard it also, then the Aunt called in to Nancy G last week. To
me nothing more needed to be proven.

Jose contradicted himself so many times in his closing. I am so so glad you
wrote this, I have been feeling so crazy.

I also remember reading on acandyrose the interview of CA's mother, Shirley, that she
wondered if ICA hated her mother more than she loved that baby.
Add to that LA and GA stating in one of their interviews that hard feelings started in the
delivery room when Caylee was handed to CA first and not to
ICA. These statements always bothered me and would fit in with the sociopath's reasoning.IMHO
ETA
Sadly the state probably could not count on the family to give an accurate account of the fight.

Today my MIL made the statement that the state just didn't prove their case "without a shadow of a doubt" and I just wanted to bang my head on the table.

 

[darnudes]

I don't think it would have mattered. Alternate juror #14 stated that pretty much that JB's opening statment was what made him think she was not guilty.

I've been thinking that since the verdict - I think they closed up shop after Baez's opening statement.

Anyway, sorry if this has been posted but haven't read back yet but why didn't Linda put up the information of 16 June as to computer usage etc. like she told Baez she would?

 

[dani]

If these people are not intellectually capable of understanding and fulfilling the Judge's charging instructions...they should never, ever have been on a jury in this country. It makes me so flipping angry.:banghead: Where were these people educated? What psychological make up do they have that makes them uncaring about the events around them...who actually trusts someone with a responsibility such as becoming a juror on a DP case...that does not care enoough about the world around them that they do not read a paper, check the news online or watch the news on tv? OMG.

By golly! You may be on to something!
http://media.trb.com/media/photo/2011-06/62647825.jpg

 

[Whisperer]

1.The jury didn't get to hear the truth about the molestation. Baez got in through question that were sustained..but the witness already answered. TL said the casey told him her secret. Judge cut it off. Later in a proffer outside of the jury TL sais ICA told him Lee felt her up. This should have been heard by the jury but never was. The jury's mind probably went to the worst.

2. they heard Baez ask about the paternity test and lee being tested. They did not hear that was because ICA accused him of sex molestation...and they simply had to rule out Lee.

3. They asked cindy about lee sneaking into ICA's room....setting more speculation.

4. DT outright accused GA of molesting and raping poor ICA. Seems like jury believed it.

So far the jurors are stuck on stupid (his name is George). It appears they think he wrapped, bagged and took her down the street to dispose of er.

 

[Whisperer]

The jury believed Jose's opening? What kind of minds do these people have? I never knew a person that thought the defense opening was what really happened..OMG!

 

[Whisperer]

Smooth Operator there was no way for the SA to get the information in about the fight. Cindy would have denied it. Lee would have forgotten it and GA didn't know about it. Jesse G knew but it would be hearsay. When you have people like the anthonys willing to perjure themselves, there is not much you can do.

 

[peace9274]

That Cindy was seeing a therapist to help her with the family discord (& for ICA's lies and stealing).
The therapist told Cindy that she needed to stop enabling ICA. She needed to kick ICA out of the house,
adopt Caylee and raise her properly.

The therapist should've been subpoena'd.

 

[NORCALGRL]

I think the PT put on a great case. The only things that I can think of are 1) showing the tension between CA and KC (although CA would never admit to any so I guess it would only be hearsay any other way) and the jealousy that KC had of Caylee. 2) Showing how attached to phone and electronic media KC was and how her phone went radio silent for that one day (17th or 18th can't remember).

Also, it always seemed to me that I remembered seeing IM's from KC to someone right around the chloroform searches where she was mad because she couldn't go out for St. Patricks day and had to watch Caylee. This was also the time that CA closed her bank account. Does anybody else remember that-- I may have to do a search.

Q: Did they discuss the search for missing kids on the computer, the One Tree Hill episode or the fact that she deleted a lot of photos of Caylee on 6/16? I missed some of that days testimony, so perhaps that was brought up with the Forensic Computer specialist. TIA

 

[bonniez451]

When I found out about the juror who had the cooking show and knew his way around and had an agent basically on standby says it all to me.
And ABC is disgusting as I have said before when when has that kind of money ever been paid for a missing child. The juror nurse paying for the whole family to Disney World it bothered me then and it bothers me now and why almost a week on negotiations on missing child photos.
The Devil was in FL as well as ABC

 

[AdoraBlue]

:woohoo:

I have already posted some on this topic because imo it is The single most important issue that EVERYTHING pretty much hinges on.. It is what was missing and it is the reason why the dots were not easily connectable being this issue is the entire glue that holds and ties everything together.. And it gives the true and accurate motive behind why Caylee was murdered by Casey..
Lisa0477 you bring up a good point that I had briefly wondered about the other day when listening to JA's closing argument..
QUOTE]

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, every since this trial started I have been screaming, begging, to know why the fight was never ever told. It was exactly why she killed her. Way back when, the neighbors over heard it also, then the Aunt called in to Nancy G last week. To me nothing more needed to be proven. Jose contradicted himself so many times in his closing. I am so so glad you wrote this, I have been feeling so crazy.

ITA with both of you and also believe that this is when Cindy let the hammer down that she was taking Caylee and kicking KC out, cutting off the support line. And I also believe that sometime during that knockdown dragout fight that one or the other (Cindy or KC) told the other one something to the effect of "I would rather see her (poor Caylee) dead rather than with you."

And that is why Cindy has orchestrated (with the help of Mason and Baez) this entire travesty of justice.

 

[momto2girls&2boys]

I wish they would of put Jesse Grund on the stand so he could of told them how JB, ICA and CA were trying to frame him by saying he drowned little Caylee in the swimming pool ! I think he would of been great on the stand!!

 

[okiedokietoo]

They didn't hear all the hearsay evidence - for example, what she said to Tracy Mclaughlin - And Tony wanted boys when he had children etc etc etc

IMO this jury could have heard every..single..piece of evidence and it wouldn't have made a difference because they only heard what they wanted to hear anyway (which didn't include any of the forensic evidence)

 

[kelian36]

The more I think of this, the sicker I feel. I have never seen such a lazy and incompetent jury. totally irresponsible. Can someone please explain to me why notes were never taken. I have been intensely following the case since the very beginning and I sometimes have problems keeping track of all the different characters and mysteries of this case. How did the jury keep all of that in their head? I really think that they wanted to go against the grain and voted "not guilty". Like Sue Moss said last night "you do not go swimming with duct tape around your head!!". The duct tape should have been enough coupled with Caseys behavior. I have a new person to hate now... that disgusting juror named Jennifer Ford. Waste, huge waste. Amazing tht they managed to gather the 12 most unintelligent and lazy people in Pinellas county to sit on a jury. It would be a price well paid if they ended up in a fatal accident on I-95 in a few months and Casey was the driver.

Too bad we can't make that a banner-
Lazy and incompetent.
Thank you fvixen for saying what I was afraid to say. :seeya:

 

[buckeyefan1]

:woohoo:


I also remember reading on acandyrose the interview of CA's mother, Shirley, that she
wondered if ICA hated her mother more than she loved that baby.
Add to that LA and GA stating in one of their interviews that hard feelings started in the
delivery room when Caylee was handed to CA first and not to
ICA. These statements always bothered me and would fit in with the sociopath's reasoning.IMHO
ETA
Sadly the state probably could not count on the family to give an accurate account of the fight.

Today my MIL made the statement that the state just didn't prove their case "without a shadow of a doubt" and I just wanted to bang my head on the table.

When Cindy did testify about that Father's Day night she said she, CA and Caylee watched the video with Caylee and her great grandpa and they all cried.and had a hug fest about it IIRC .The prosecution was correct in not trusting the A's to tell the truth about the argument because CA would not even say under oath that it (the fight) even happened.

 

[Never4GetCaylee]

I don't understand why they didn't show Casey's cell/computer activity for June 16th. Wasn't she constantly texting or on the computer? When would this search and finding Caylee in the pool have happened? And she totally went "off the grid" for 2 hours that day when George was at work...right before the flurry of phone calls to Cindy.

Someone asked JA about the fight on the night of the 15th, he said there was no way to get it in. It was hearsay and no one that was there would testify to it.

 

[mikeysmommom]

What they did not hear was the truth instead a cash registrar ringing in their ears was making them deaf.They denied truth and justice to Caylee to enrich themselves. I am glad the public is turning against them it is well deserved.Karma will be coming to all who betrayed Caylee and justice.