Lloyd Welch is Person of Interest

[steveP120]

I also don't see how the two cases could be related other than the area.

But it does show how easy it is for someone or some body to get lost in a large rural area. In the second case, it seems like he could have just wandered off due to his mental condition and got lost? It does sound like another case where search dogs would have helped.

Foul play might be possible, but why would anyone murder anyone in that condition, except perhaps as a mercy killing. The most likely foul play would be at his own hand.

 

[simplifymylife2014]

Does everyone understand that IT WAS FIRST the NEWS MEDIA which PRESENTED (in the video link below), that it was the LYON SISTERS CASE which sparked interest into OPENING UP and RE-INVESTIGATING the James Davis Walker case again?

http://m.wdbj7.com/video/lyon-sisters-case-puts-another-investigation-into-spotlight/28996158

The reason I posted the links regarding WDBJ's report and the info from The Charlie Project about the disappearance of James Davis Walker on THIS THREAD is because beachlvr0810 made a statement on another thread in which she called the "inmate" from the Walker case info "LLW".

Thank you beachlvr0810 for being very open and clarifying that you DID NOT mean LLW as the inmate in the Walker case.

UNTIL beachlvr0810 NOW CLARIFIED IT, THAT WAS THE MAIN CONNECTION with the 2 CASES!!

I lived in Wheaton, Maryland and Montgomery County for most of my life.
I am ONLY 5 MONTHS younger than Sheila Lyon.
This story DEEPLY affected my life, as you can see how passionate I am about this case!!!
I didn't EVEN KNOW and REALIZE until SEPTEMBER 2014, that it came back into the news in FEBRUARY 2014, with LLW being named a POI!!

Now that I'm older and a parent myself and am feeling impatient,
JUST to wait for new information, as well as the HG case in the news,
I CAN'T FATHOM MARY AND JOHN LYON WAITING HOUR BY HOUR,
DAY BY DAY for ALMOST 40 YEARS FOR NEW INFORMATION AND
FOR THEIR LITTLE GIRLS TO COME HOME!!!!

Yes, my post WAS RELEVENT being on this thread, because if there
WAS ANY CONNECTION THROUGH LLW ON BOTH CASES, it
could be ONE STEP CLOSER to bringing the girls HOME!!

IT IS STILL POSSIBLE for there to be a connection to both cases
somehow. TIME WILL TELL.
However, at this point, unless it is revealed by LE to be
related to this thread, I will stop posting about the Walker case here.

 

[j123]

simplify-

I had the same interpretation as you. The news story was ambiguous. They might have just been sensationalizing, but how are we to know? The story was presented in a way which seemed to suggest that there might be a relationship.

If the Walker case interest from the police was only re-ignited because of the geographic connection, then the reporting should have been more clear, and it CERTAINLY shouldn't have put "Lyon Sisters case" as the first three words of the title.

 

[Motherof5]

Does everyone understand that IT WAS FIRST the NEWS MEDIA which PRESENTED (in the video link below), that it was the LYON SISTERS CASE which sparked interest into OPENING UP and RE-INVESTIGATING the James Davis Walker case again?

http://m.wdbj7.com/video/lyon-sisters-case-puts-another-investigation-into-spotlight/28996158

The reason I posted the links regarding WDBJ's report and the info from The Charlie Project about the disappearance of James Davis Walker on THIS THREAD is because beachlvr0810 made a statement on another thread in which she called the "inmate" from the Walker case info "LLW".

Thank you beachlvr0810 for being very open and clarifying that you DID NOT mean LLW as the inmate in the Walker case.

UNTIL beachlvr0810 NOW CLARIFIED IT, THAT WAS THE MAIN CONNECTION with the 2 CASES!!

I lived in Wheaton, Maryland and Montgomery County for most of my life.
I am ONLY 5 MONTHS younger than Sheila Lyon.
This story DEEPLY affected my life, as you can see how passionate I am about this case!!!
I didn't EVEN KNOW and REALIZE until SEPTEMBER 2014, that it came back into the news in FEBRUARY 2014, with LLW being named a POI!!

Now that I'm older and a parent myself and am feeling impatient,
JUST to wait for new information, as well as the HG case in the news,
I CAN'T FATHOM MARY AND JOHN LYON WAITING HOUR BY HOUR,
DAY BY DAY for ALMOST 40 YEARS FOR NEW INFORMATION AND
FOR THEIR LITTLE GIRLS TO COME HOME!!!!

Yes, my post WAS RELEVENT being on this thread, because if there
WAS ANY CONNECTION THROUGH LLW ON BOTH CASES, it
could be ONE STEP CLOSER to bringing the girls HOME!!

IT IS STILL POSSIBLE for there to be a connection to both cases
somehow. TIME WILL TELL.
However, at this point, unless it is revealed by LE to be
related to this thread, I will stop posting about the Walker case here.

Thank you for your post [emoji4] I think we can all agree that connected or not, it would be a really good thing if both families could get answers. Prayers for all.


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[Motherof5]

I also don't see how the two cases could be related other than the area.

But it does show how easy it is for someone or some body to get lost in a large rural area. In the second case, it seems like he could have just wandered off due to his mental condition and got lost? It does sound like another case where search dogs would have helped.

Foul play might be possible, but why would anyone murder anyone in that condition, except perhaps as a mercy killing. The most likely foul play would be at his own hand.

I don't know enough about Mr. Walker or his case but would agree with you that search dogs would have helped. Not sure if they were used?


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[Richard]

Richard,

Have you heard from Jeb? I was hoping he would come back given the new info. Like you, he has contributed a great deal to the forum.

I can't speak for Jeb, but I know that he has been very interested in this case since 1975.

I have been rather disappointed in the lack of information provided by Montgomery County Police. Other than naming the two Persons of Interest and conducting searchs in Hyattsville, MD and Bedford County, VA, they really have not said much substantial. I am anxious to hear from them and to learn more. They claim to know a lot, but have not released anything publicly as yet.

We don't know what (if anything) they have found on that mountain. And we don't know what (if anything) they have found in Richard Welch's house or on his property in Virginia which might connect him or Lloyd Welch to the case.

The statement made in a recent press conference which went something like this: "We know who was responsible." (Pause) "Every one of them." came after comments made about the Welch family or relatives in Bedford County, VA. I can see how some people may have understood them to mean that the entire Welch family was responsible - but personally, I do not think that is the case, and that it was not what was meant by the speaker.

I think the wording was awkward and the timing of his statement was off. What he probably meant was that investigators know who all the people were who were responsible for the abduction and possible murder of the Lyon sisters. If that is the case, I would expect more persons to be named in the near future, because I have my doubts about the two current POI's.

 

[Motherof5]

I can't speak for Jeb, but I know that he has been very interested in this case since 1975.

I have been rather disappointed in the lack of information provided by Montgomery County Police. Other than naming the two Persons of Interest and conducting searchs in Hyattsville, MD and Bedford County, VA, they really have not said much substantial. I am anxious to hear from them and to learn more. They claim to know a lot, but have not released anything publicly as yet.

We don't know what (if anything) they have found on that mountain. And we don't know what (if anything) they have found in Richard Welch's house or on his property in Virginia which might connect him or Lloyd Welch to the case.

The statement made in a recent press conference which went something like this: "We know who was responsible." (Pause) "Every one of them." came after comments made about the Welch family or relatives in Bedford County, VA. I can see how some people may have understood them to mean that the entire Welch family was responsible - but personally, I do not think that is the case, and that it was not what was meant by the speaker.

I think the wording was awkward and the timing of his statement was off. What he probably meant was that investigators know who all the people were who were responsible for the abduction and possible murder of the Lyon sisters. If that is the case, I would expect more persons to be named in the near future, because I have my doubts about the two current POI's.

Well, hopefully Jeb will come back soon and LE will either clarify some things for us or offer more info.

 

[Motherof5]

http://www.wset.com/story/26797749/where-are-the-lyon-sisters-retracing-their-steps


"Hamill (of Montgomery County police) showed us one shortcut from the mall to the neighborhood where the Lyon family lives, about a half-mile away. Police believe the girls took a path from the neighborhood, but never made it back to the path.

"It's a winding path, goes through the woods. It would have been a normal way for kids to travel to come here,” said Hamill. “We don't believe they ever made it from the mall. We believe the actions occurred here in the area of the mall."

In February, investigators identified Lloyd Welch, Jr. as a person of interest in the case. They say he was not only at Wheaton Plaza the day the sisters disappeared, but that he was seen paying particular attention to the young blonde girls.

One witness paid such close attention to Welch, police were able to develop a sketch. The sketch matches Welch's mugshot from a burglary arrest in the same area two years later, right down to his acne scars."

.........

"The Giant Food store has been relocated to a different are on the mall property. Investigators believe Richard “Dick” Welch, Lloyd Welch's uncle and a second person of interest, worked at the original grocery store. They also believe he was a security guard in Wheaton in the 1970s."

--------------------------------
If the girls never made it from the mall to Drumm Ave. that would mean three mistaken sightings, one of the sightings by two people in car? One of the three sightings was inconsistent with the time of the other two sightings and already assumed to be mistaken either by wrong date or wrong two girls, of which there were plenty of in the 70s.

I always believed they were taken from the short cut through the woods on their way home but what do I know? Quite a few WS members would agree with LE on this...that they never left the mall on their own. I just always thought that the woods they would walk through on the short cut,would provide cover for the abductor(s). *shrugs* If RW was involved and approached them at the mall,with his security guard badge,it would probably not be difficult to take them from the mall. JMO

 

[simplifymylife2014]

LE DID SAY: "Lloyd Welch and family member"S". (emphasis added)
That PLURAL should MEAN MORE THAN ONE family member.
It could be 2 or many.

Common sense says that not ALL of the family members are involved.
LE even commented that many have been cooperative in that area they were investigating.

beachlvr0810 has a Facebook page she started and maintains called
"Taylor Mountain Descendants".
It looks like a very interesting geneological page for reference to those from Taylor's Mountain.

LE also commented that there are very nice people on the mountain.

Is there any NEW INFO you all know about since the news media stated that some from Bedford went back to Maryland to go through the case files and interview people?

According to beachlvr0810, they are no longer there on the mountain
investigating.

 

[Motherof5]

If RAW Sr was the driver then he would have disappeared for hours and would have his wife and kids been worried? He would have been gone for more than 15 hours probably. I think his wife would have wounder where is was. Also it states LLW was an outcast in the family. So why would RAW Sr help him?

Maybe he wasn't an outcast to everyone in the family? I would wonder where my husband was for that length of time unless he told me something logical and I believed him. LE would not be pointing the finger at RW if they had no good reason to think he was involved. We'll just have to wait and see what LE has found and why they consider RW a POI.


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[Ausgirl]

Has anyone established what carnival/s Welch worked for? If there is a known route for his carny work, we might be able to ID the company - there's some archived carny newsletters on the net that I've used to track someone in another case via carnival routes. Long shot, as not every issue is available but you never know.

 

[steveP120]

The statement made in a recent press conference which went something like this: "We know who was responsible." (Pause) "Every one of them." came after comments made about the Welch family or relatives in Bedford County, VA. I can see how some people may have understood them to mean that the entire Welch family was responsible - but personally, I do not think that is the case, and that it was not what was meant by the speaker.

I think the wording was awkward and the timing of his statement was off. What he probably meant was that investigators know who all the people were who were responsible for the abduction and possible murder of the Lyon sisters. If that is the case, I would expect more persons to be named in the near future, because I have my doubts about the two current POI's.

People often misspeak, as the prior discussion about who was an uncle to whom showed, but I think it's pretty clear that the police used the word responsible a few times and the plural a few times.

But responsible is so vague it could mean the second person being involved in the crime from the start, the second person helping cover up the crime after the fact or the second person knowing about the crime after the fact but not coming forward which he/she has no legal obligation to do.

I would bet on the first person of interest, doing the murder on his own. I would bet on the second person of interest helping cover up the crime after the fact by lending his car, which may have been done without knowing it was done to cover up the crime. I would bet on anyone else "responsible" as having heard something about the crime perhaps from the second person of interest. After hearing of Lloyd's additional crimes against children, I would imagine that any family member who did not turn Lloyd in for the first crime, would have been utterly upset and cursing Lloyd for days.

I would expect either the police to come up with DNA evidence of the girls or to come up with nothing besides decades-old family rumors similar to the online speculation here. They may have some bad jokes from the 1970's such as, "we just let shoplifters go with a warning, but we make the cute girls......us first"

I would find it unlikely, but poetic justice, if Lloyd was innocent of this crime, but they caught one of his more dangerous relatives because of Lloyd. Who knows how Lloyd got so messed up, but there is a slight chance he was abused by a relative. Of course if Lloyd is totally innocent, we and the police owe him an apology.

 

[beachlvr0810]

AAWJ...I'm trying to send you a private message but your inbox is full. If you are on Facebook, please send me a private message through my Taylor's Mountain Descendents page so it will come straight to my phone. I've got alot of things going on right now including a death in the Welch family and don't know when I'll be back on WS.

 

[Motherof5]

People often misspeak, as the prior discussion about who was an uncle to whom showed, but I think it's pretty clear that the police used the word responsible a few times and the plural a few times.

But responsible is so vague it could mean the second person being involved in the crime from the start, the second person helping cover up the crime after the fact or the second person knowing about the crime after the fact but not coming forward which he/she has no legal obligation to do.

I would bet on the first person of interest, doing the murder on his own. I would bet on the second person of interest helping cover up the crime after the fact by lending his car, which may have been done without knowing it was done to cover up the crime. I would bet on anyone else "responsible" as having heard something about the crime perhaps from the second person of interest. After hearing of Lloyd's additional crimes against children, I would imagine that any family member who did not turn Lloyd in for the first crime, would have been utterly upset and cursing Lloyd for days.

I would expect either the police to come up with DNA evidence of the girls or to come up with nothing besides decades-old family rumors similar to the online speculation here. They may have some bad jokes from the 1970's such as, "we just let shoplifters go with a warning, but we make the cute girls......us first"

I would find it unlikely, but poetic justice, if Lloyd was innocent of this crime, but they caught one of his more dangerous relatives because of Lloyd. Who knows how Lloyd got so messed up, but there is a slight chance he was abused by a relative. Of course if Lloyd is totally innocent, we and the police owe him an apology.

I kind of felt the same way for a bit about RW only helping cover up the crime or lending his car but not so much now. This article states,under the pic of the house, that RW was named a POI 2 weeks after LE searched his house. It's been 39 years so I think he was more involved than just lending his car. LE must have found something in his house that implicated him. That's my thinking for now. I can see how it would be very easy for a man with any type of badge to trick two little girls. Mike Debardeleben fooled grown women with his fake badge.

http://issuu.com/hyattsvillelifeandtimes/docs/2014-10

 

[cgoodwin22]

Does everyone understand that IT WAS FIRST the NEWS MEDIA which PRESENTED (in the video link below), that it was the LYON SISTERS CASE which sparked interest into OPENING UP and RE-INVESTIGATING the James Davis Walker case again?

http://m.wdbj7.com/video/lyon-sisters-case-puts-another-investigation-into-spotlight/28996158

The reason I posted the links regarding WDBJ's report and the info from The Charlie Project about the disappearance of James Davis Walker on THIS THREAD is because beachlvr0810 made a statement on another thread in which she called the "inmate" from the Walker case info "LLW".

Thank you beachlvr0810 for being very open and clarifying that you DID NOT mean LLW as the inmate in the Walker case.

UNTIL beachlvr0810 NOW CLARIFIED IT, THAT WAS THE MAIN CONNECTION with the 2 CASES!!

I lived in Wheaton, Maryland and Montgomery County for most of my life.
I am ONLY 5 MONTHS younger than Sheila Lyon.
This story DEEPLY affected my life, as you can see how passionate I am about this case!!!
I didn't EVEN KNOW and REALIZE until SEPTEMBER 2014, that it came back into the news in FEBRUARY 2014, with LLW being named a POI!!

Now that I'm older and a parent myself and am feeling impatient,
JUST to wait for new information, as well as the HG case in the news,
I CAN'T FATHOM MARY AND JOHN LYON WAITING HOUR BY HOUR,
DAY BY DAY for ALMOST 40 YEARS FOR NEW INFORMATION AND
FOR THEIR LITTLE GIRLS TO COME HOME!!!!

Yes, my post WAS RELEVENT being on this thread, because if there
WAS ANY CONNECTION THROUGH LLW ON BOTH CASES, it
could be ONE STEP CLOSER to bringing the girls HOME!!

IT IS STILL POSSIBLE for there to be a connection to both cases
somehow. TIME WILL TELL.
However, at this point, unless it is revealed by LE to be
related to this thread, I will stop posting about the Walker case here.

I feel you simplifymylife2014! I feel the exact same way! I was only 5 when this happened but I VIVIDLY remember how it affected my Mom. I lived only 2 miles from Iverson Mall at the time. When the whole thing broke about the tape recorder man and how he was seen at Iverson Mall it freaked my mom out even more....which put me and my older brothers on lockdown. I pray every day that closure will come to John and Mary Lyon.

 

[simplifymylife2014]

Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
The path through the woods...

... visiting and stare out at those woods. I guess you could say that my innocense was taken along with many other people at that time. I had never really heard about children being taken that way and it was quite disturbing to me. ...

Source:
Sheila and Katherine Lyon-sisters missing since 1975 - Page 4 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

LINK:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...?t=6560&page=4

The person who posted the above information in 2005 made only the one post to any websleuths forum. Here is a little more from that same post:

quote:
A year later (1976 or 77) a neighbor on the other side of us said that a man broke in her house and raped her. Not only that but for awhile there he kept coming back. I remember that summer listening for noises in the night and it seemed like every other night the police would arrive to search all the back yards for this culprit. He never was caught as far as I know.

When I became pregnant in 1977, we decided to move away. I did not feel comfortable there raising a child after all these things happened. It was a nice, quiet street - yet something seemed to always be going on. I don't know how it is now. I have not been back to see our old house in a long time. But I do still think of those little blonde headed girls and of the evil person who took them from their family. It effected me in how I raised my kids. I never allowed them to roam around the neighborhood where we lived. They did not understand why I was so over protective - but I didn't care. I just knew I had to be that way. No place is safe.

unquote

It would seem that Kensington was not the idylic place that some folks thought. And here is a report of a rape taking place only doors down the road from the Lyon house near the end of that path. I wonder if police were ever able to develope any persons of interest or suspects in that case - or if there were any other similar attacks known or reported to police.
Last edited by Richard; 02-15-2014 at 10:15 PM. Reason: spelling

 

[simplifymylife2014]

02-15-2014, 01:28 PM #15 lavfam lavfam is offline
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Now I am realizing the "clearing" is right across from Hobson Street. Which is where Lloyd Lee Welch was arrested for burglary two years later. Do we consider this coincidence? (Sorry if I am reinventing the wheel here and this is old news....)

Could LLW have been mocking the situation of going to the
VERY SAME AREA where perhaps the abduction was accomplished or
just going to where he was already familiar with?

We DO KNOW 2 THINGS:
1). LLW was caught for burglary 2 years after girls went missing,
which wasn't far from Wheaton Plaza.
2). LLW has been named a POI and WAS SEEN AT WHEATON PLAZA
ON MARCH 25, 1975, PAYING PARTICULAR ATTENTION TO THE LYON SISTERS.

 

[steveP120]

I kind of felt the same way for a bit about RW only helping cover up the crime or lending his car but not so much now. This article states,under the pic of the house, that RW was named a POI 2 weeks after LE searched his house. It's been 39 years so I think he was more involved than just lending his car. LE must have found something in his house that implicated him. That's my thinking for now. I can see how it would be very easy for a man with any type of badge to trick two little girls. Mike Debardeleben fooled grown women with his fake badge.

http://issuu.com/hyattsvillelifeandtimes/docs/2014-10

Since all men are sinners, I am fairly sure the police have something on both persons of interest, but not so sure if any sins were related to the Lyon sisters.

Lloyd Welch almost certainly was involved with shoplifting at the plaza/mall, trying to pick up young girls, drinking and drugs. Lloyd would have lied to almost anyone he met, from girls he was trying to pick up to grown-ups. One of Lloyd's lies might have been that he was a security guard.

The police never did post a criminal history of the second person of interest, and I did not see Richard or anyone else online post a criminal record, so I gather he has no related criminal history. If RW was the security guard, exceeding his legal right, by grabbing shoplifting suspects, well that was a crime that 's far crime from kidnapping.

Working at Giant Food (grocery) store is a good union job, the best job in the mall that pays about double or more than other near-minimum wage retail jobs. Since Giant Food has to pay a high union wage, they have far more applicants than jobs, and only hire the best retail workers and don't put up with any problem workers. This gives any high paid workers not only an incentive to act good, especially at the mall they work at but also an incentive to cover up by criminal means such as threats, bribery or worse and bad behavior that would get them fired, and back to a minimum-wage job. But it's not clear from news reports if RW was working at Giant or as a security guard at the time of the crime.

 

[Fukiyama]

If RW was a security guard at or near Wheaton Plaza, would he have known of and had access to the underground loading dock?

 

[steveP120]

If RW was a security guard at or near Wheaton Plaza, would he have known of and had access to the underground loading dock?

Someone who worked at the plaza at the time would know for sure, but I fairly sure that security guards would have access to the large, almost the size of the mall, loading dock, just as security guards have access to the back area of the mall and other malls today.

I think most store workers would have also have access. I don't do it often, but sometimes I walk the back way out of one mall, as many people do, so I suppose Lloyd could also wander around the loading area. I also think two young sisters would have attracted attention, just as they would walking around the loading area of a department store today.

It's easily possible that either person of interest could have found some unused lower level room, and used the room for fun, which may have got out of hand.