Long Easter Weekend Thread (Apr. 5, 6, 7, 8, & 9, 2012)

[Hello_Kitty]

I think if a witness list was available, it would have already been published.

I don't know why they would publish a list beforehand though. It might be dangerous for the witnesses to have the defendant know they were going to testify..........perhaps against them.

Although, TLM did learn some information from the disclosure provided to her lawyer one time. I am not sure if that was legal, <modsnip>.

To plot revenge against whom? I'm not sure I follow you.

 

[Kamille]

I think if a witness list was available, it would have already been published.

I don't know why they would publish a list beforehand though. It might be dangerous for the witnesses to have the defendant know they were going to testify..........perhaps against them.

Although, TLM did learn some information from the disclosure provided to her lawyer one time. I am not sure if that was legal, <modsnip>.

And no one involved in that case has ever had her or anyone associated with her abduct, rape or kill them or any member of their family that we are aware of so what does that prove? TLM talks, or should I say writes, a big game for shock value and street cred but she does not follow through with any of it.

She didn't this time either because...well there was no known connection to the victim at the time of the abduction. And only a very vague one to the victim's mother that was discovered after the fact. As testified to and entered into evidence by the victim's mother. Both TLM and TM have testified that TLM did not know Victoria was TM's daughter. And that TM's connection was to TLM's mother, not her.

MOO

 

[Sillybilly]

I think if a witness list was available, it would have already been published.

I don't know why they would publish a list beforehand though. It might be dangerous for the witnesses to have the defendant know they were going to testify..........perhaps against them.

Although, TLM did learn some information from the disclosure provided to her lawyer one time. I am not sure if that was legal, <modsnip>

Yeah .. unlike the States, here in Canada it seems like it's just through disclosure between the Crown and the Defence.

TLM's lawyer is her representative ... as a defendant, she would have been entitled to know whatever her lawyer was provided by the Crown and who may testify against her.

 

[Sillybilly]

Do you have the link for the rafferty evidence photos please? I can't find it.

Here's the link to the main page Kitty ... sorry, offhand I don't know which slide #. I'd look it up, but am on a mobile connection right now with data limitations = $$

http://api.viglink.com/api/click?fo...9599961.html&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13338292558492

 

[Wondergirl]

Russ Williams listened to classical music, he was so upscale, and what the hell did that end up meaning, in the end?

Diddly squat, he's a sadistic rapist and murderer, plain and simple, regardless of his "musical tastes".

JMO

 

[Ardy]

And no one involved in that case has ever had her or anyone associated with her abduct, rape or kill them or any member of their family that we are aware of so what does that prove? TLM talks, or should I say writes, a big game for shock value and street cred but she does not follow through with any of it.

She didn't this time either because...well there was no known connection to the victim at the time of the abduction. And only a very vague one to the victim's mother that was discovered after the fact. As testified to and entered into evidence by the victim's mother. Both TLM and TM have testified that TLM did not know Victoria was TM's daughter. And that TM's connection was to TLM's mother, not her....JMO

MOO

TLM obtained the information on the witness against her, through access to the discovery documents her lawyer had in his possession. She considered it important enough to keep it.

I wouldn't find it beyond the realm of possibility that she could have discovered that VS was TM's daughter through other sources.......other than directly from TM.

If it is the same case as disclosed in court, TLM's latest assault charge was made possible by her manipulation of a peer counselling program so she could be alone with that specific inmate, with whom she had a grievance with.

I don't underestimate TLM's ability or determination to get what she wants.

 

[Ardy]

To plot revenge against whom? I'm not sure I follow you.

If this is the same assault charge against TLM that was discussed in court, TLM signed up for a peer counselling inmate group, asked that a specific inmate by assigned as her peer, and when they were alone savagely beat the other inmate. It was alleged to have happened because TLM didn't like some things the other inmate had said about her.

If this an additional charge besides that one, then TLM just continues on being TLM.

 

[Hello_Kitty]

If this is the same assault charge against TLM that was discussed in court, TLM signed up for a peer counselling inmate group, asked that a specific inmate by assigned as her peer, and when they were alone savagely beat the other inmate. It was alleged to have happened because TLM didn't like some things the other inmate had said about her.

If this an additional charge besides that one, then TLM just continues on.

Oh that. Since we are dicussing the case of Victoria Stafford and the trial of Micheal Rafferty, I thought you were refering to something about this case. It's not something the crown or prosecution will use in this case, so I think bringing stuff in like that just confuses things because I thought you meant that she plotted revenge against MR.

 

[kmclaren]

TLM obtained the information on the witness against her, through access to the discovery documents her lawyer had in his possession. She considered it important enough to keep it.

I wouldn't find it beyond the realm of possibility that she could have discovered that VS was TM's daughter through other sources.......other than directly from TM.

If it is the same case as disclosed in court, TLM's latest assault charge was made possible by her manipulation of a peer counselling program so she could be alone with that specific inmate, with whom she had a grievance with.

I don't underestimate TLM's ability or determination to get what she wants.

BBM - that was just Derstine's version, TLM called it a "scrap". We don't know if the other inmate is being charged but she's also there for life for 1st degree murder... This wouldn't have even been newsworthy if not for the timing of MR's trial.

 

[Wondergirl]

TLM obtained the information on the witness against her, through access to the discovery documents her lawyer had in his possession. She considered it important enough to keep it.

I wouldn't find it beyond the realm of possibility that she could have discovered that VS was TM's daughter through other sources.......other than directly from TM.

If it is the same case as disclosed in court, TLM's latest assault charge was made possible by her manipulation of a peer counselling program so she could be alone with that specific inmate, with whom she had a grievance with.

I don't underestimate TLM's ability or determination to get what she wants.

BBM: Really? This appears to be stated as fact.

Do you have an MSM link for this? I don't remember reading this. I would be interested in reading it, as I am sure there are others who would be as well.

TIA

 

[matou]

BBM: Really? This appears to be stated as fact.

Do you have an MSM link for this? I don't remember reading this. I would be interested in reading it, as I am sure there are others who would be as well.

TIA

Count me in as someone who wants to know where this info is coming from. JMO

 

[ChaChaCha]

BBM - that was just Derstine's version, TLM called it a "scrap". We don't know if the other inmate is being charged but she's also there for life for 1st degree murder... This wouldn't have even been newsworthy if not for the timing of MR's trial.

My understanding from SailorBug's tweet posting on March 23:


"In January of this year, McClintic got into a fight with another inmate. There's a peer support program. Older inmates help younger inmates.

McClintic asked for an inmate, then started beating on her. McClintic was "confronting her" about things she had said.

RaffertyLFP: Agreed she kicked and stomped other inmate who was on the ground in a fetal position "


The older inmate was a peer counsellor - not the "Ship" buddy that she knew from juvie - altho it is possible now that Ship is incarcarated in Kitchener - hard to say though, since Ship's sentence is shorter than TLM's, who will hopefully never get out. We do not know what the peer counsellor is in for.

Amazing how everyone she meets gets stomped and beaten and ends up on the ground in a fetal position. I guess for TLM though, that was small potatos.

Again, on the matter of TLM ever getting out on a "faint hope" application I hope that she is designated as a dangerous offender asap - no hope of evergetting out early once that label has been applied. Not sure though who makes the application and brings the motion for that - I will have to look into it a bit.

 

[maxfactor]

TLM obtained the information on the witness against her, through access to the discovery documents her lawyer had in his possession. She considered it important enough to keep it.

I wouldn't find it beyond the realm of possibility that she could have discovered that VS was TM's daughter through other sources.......other than directly from TM.

If it is the same case as disclosed in court, TLM's latest assault charge was made possible by her manipulation of a peer counselling program so she could be alone with that specific inmate, with whom she had a grievance with.

I don't underestimate TLM's ability or determination to get what she wants.

Sorry Ardy but you've totally lost me here, can you explain what you mean by what I have bolded? TIA

 

[ChaChaCha]

BBM: Really? This appears to be stated as fact.

Do you have an MSM link for this? I don't remember reading this. I would be interested in reading it, as I am sure there are others who would be as well.

TIA

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2012/04/06/19603061.html

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7712392"]trial thread: 3/23/2012 - Page 5 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[Wondergirl]

The interior of MR's car is not white-washed. It is a primer applied as a prelude to a custom interior paint job, which is typical of rice rockets. Consumers can buy special paint for the dash, consoles and doors. There is even special fabric spray paint for those who like a co-ordinated look. Having a tricked out interior is a big status symbol.

Urban Dictionary:

"a Honda Civic. a loud high-pitched, annoying japanese car that tipically has the ... ricer rice rocket rice honda civic import fart cannon fart can spoiler tuner car ... They also tend to have a huge ridiculous wing on the rear of the car. ... Often driven by spotty teenagers with their equally spotty girlfriends on the passenger seat.

Rice Rockets, usually Civics which are cheap to buy, are known for their gaudy homemade modifications.

If you Google Rice Rocket Custom Paint Interior and choose images you will find all sorts of multi-colored gaudy interiors that the Civic owners proudly show off. The same goes for the custom paint on the outside lol - all do it yourself (much like the home improvement shows so popular a few years ago LMAO)

This is a link to a rice rocket web page - shows the custom paint interior and has a bunch of guys yipping about the best way to do it:
yourself.http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2519235/1992-honda-civic

From what I have read, some owners will rip out the back seats in order to either install huge speakers and/or reduce the weight in the back of the car and make it go faster.

:truce:

I googled what you suggested, and there only seems to be one link with the "rice rocket custom paint interior", as you have posted here.

I doubt that the jury is going to think that Rafferty's interior "rice rocket" paint job, is even on the same planet, as the one you have posted. In fact, I think those ricer people would be extremely insulted that anyone would consider the 2 similar in any way.

IMO, someone whose "baby" was that ugly civic, wouldn't do that to his vehicle in the first place, unless there was a good reason.

IMO, the exterior and interior paint jobs indicate something amiss with the person that did it. JMO

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/04/05/19599961.html

http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/77/4701/25192350005_medium.jpg

 

[Wondergirl]

TLM obtained the information on the witness against her, through access to the discovery documents her lawyer had in his possession. She considered it important enough to keep it.

I wouldn't find it beyond the realm of possibility that she could have discovered that VS was TM's daughter through other sources.......other than directly from TM.

If it is the same case as disclosed in court, TLM's latest assault charge was made possible by her manipulation of a peer counselling program so she could be alone with that specific inmate, with whom she had a grievance with.

I don't underestimate TLM's ability or determination to get what she wants.

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2012/04/06/19603061.html

trial thread: 3/23/2012 - Page 5 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

I don't see anything about TLM obtaining information about a witness against her, and her keeping the information that her lawyer gave her about that witness?

Not sure her lawyer would take kindly to that insuation.

 

[ChaChaCha]

Sorry Ardy but you've totally lost me here, can you explain what you mean by what I have bolded? TIA

Originally Posted by Ardy
TLM obtained the information on the witness against her, through access to the discovery documents her lawyer had in his possession. She considered it important enough to keep it.

Ardy is correct ... TLM pleaded guilty, likely upon the advice of her lawyer. If you recall some time ago her lawyer noting that there was much information that she needed to go through - that would have been the Crown's "disclosure" - setting out the evidence that they had against her. TLM would have reviewed all of this material with her lawyer - some of the evidence would also have related to MR ... so she knew <modsnip> well what they had on him before she ever took the stand to testify against him. It likely wasn't too difficult for her to modify her story to co-incide with the evidence ...

For example, TLM would have known from the discover docs that there was blood found on the front of the car - she she tailors her story that MR tossed TS in front of the car, and that is where the kicking etc. took place.

She would have had access to the discovery materials before she entered a plea of guilty - evidently from the Crown's discovery materials n her case, there was nothin in there that could prove that TLM was the murderer .... so she blamed it on MR.


So yes, TLM's charges and her entering a plea of guilty has everything to do with MR's trial .... she might be the devil but she isn't stupid - she is cunning and vengeful.

JMO

 

[ChaChaCha]

I don't see anything about TLM obtaining information about a witness against her, and her keeping the information that her lawyer gave her about that witness?

Not sure her lawyer would take kindly to that insuation.

Please see my explanation about the discovery materials above.... that was the information that TLM was entitled to receive from the Crown about her case.

My understanding from the tweets and the LFP article is that the assault in the prison on the peer inmate was because she had heard that the peer was talking ***** about her. TLM was being mildly vindictive.

JMO

 

[Wondergirl]

Originally Posted by Ardy
TLM obtained the information on the witness against her, through access to the discovery documents her lawyer had in his possession. She considered it important enough to keep it.

Ardy is correct ... TLM pleaded guilty, likely upon the advice of her lawyer. If you recall some time ago her lawyer noting that there was much information that she needed to go through - that would have been the Crown's "disclosure" - setting out the evidence that they had against her. TLM would have reviewed all of this material with her lawyer - some of the evidence would also have related to MR ... so she knew damn well what they had on him before she ever took the stand to testify against him. It likely wasn't too difficult for her to modify her story to co-incide with the evidence ...

For example, TLM would have known from the discover docs that there was blood found on the front of the car - she she tailors her story that MR tossed TS in front of the car, and that is where the kicking etc. took place.

She would have had access to the discovery materials before she entered a plea of guilty - evidently from the Crown's discovery materials n her case, there was nothin in there that could prove that TLM was the murderer .... so she blamed it on MR.


So yes, TLM's charges and her entering a plea of guilty has everything to do with MR's trial .... she might be the devil but she isn't stupid - she is cunning and vengeful.

JMO

Please see my explanation about the discovery materials above.... that was the information that TLM was entitled to receive from the Crown about her case.

My understanding from the tweets and the LFP article is that the assault in the prison on the peer inmate was because she had heard that the peer was talking ***** about her. TLM was being mildly vindictive.

JMO

What is being suggested here about TLM's counsel, is not to be taken lightly, IMO.

I would consider it speculation at best, that TLM was attacking people based on information given to her by her lawyer, through disclosure.

There are numerous references for this subject, but, I will quote this one on the matter.

Addressing Improper Use of Disclosed Materials

In recent years, there have been some troubling instances of disclosed materials being misused. Misuse of disclosure information includes use of these materials to facilitate criminal activity, such as harassment and intimidation of witnesses. It also includes situations where sensitive private information about individuals, including victims of crime and third parties, is revealed.

Disclosure materials can include information of considerable sensitivity, affecting both the interests of the public in fighting crime and the privacy interests of individuals, including victims and third parties. While criminal justice in Canada is a public process, this does not mean that all the underlying documentation is to be freely distributed in public. In particular, disclosure materials are not appropriately distributed in the public domain. As the Martin Report stated, &#8220;it is inappropriate for any counsel to give disclosure information to the public. Counsel would not be acting responsibly as an officer of the court if he or she did so.&#8221;[4] Further, while it is the accused person's constitutional right to receive disclosure materials in order to make full answer and defence, this does not mean that these materials may be dealt with in an unrestricted manner as between counsel and the accused. The Martin Report makes recommendations on restrictions that should apply to the handling of the materials in this regard, stating, in part, that &#8220;defence counsel should maintain custody or control over disclosure materials, so that copies of these materials are not improperly disseminated&#8221; (p. 179).


http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/cons/ref/7.html

 

[Wondergirl]

All that being said about the motive for TLM attacking another person while in jail, it is, nevertheless, appalling, and it is unfortunate that her sentence will not be affected by this alleged incindent.

NO MORE VICTIMS!